Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

[WizarDynasty]

Len is a gymnast. His body only recent began banging against humans who were stronger than himself. His bone structure is set. IF Len was ten years old and still had alot of growing to do and we forced him to push the strongest kid in school out of the paint for an hour each day, his bone density and muscle structure would much much different than what we see now. It's way to late for len's bones to reset and for his muscle distribution to redesign. His joints are set for high impact from jumps but he is like a fish out of water when attempting to use lower body strength and move mass using his lower body. When he attempts to do this, his body gets injured because his joints during his growth spurt repaired themselves from high impact from jumps off a balance beam, not from applying 1000 pounds of pressure on one ankle joint moving his body mass and plus another 260lb body mass pushing back on that one joint.

Had Len's joint experienced these shock forces at a young age, his body would have molded into a killing machine for this particular task 10 years later as it fully matured.

It's only the unwise who see Len's height and completely ignore his inability to use lower body strength to move bodies, and his inability to lower his center of gravity in his knees.
the reason he can't is because if he does, he will get injured because his body was molded for that from his daily activities.
Now a guy like Bennett who has been playing basketball all of his life, and substantial time in the post, you see how thick his legs and how he moves players in the post for rebounds. He's been doing these activities since a very very young age and his body, after 10 to 15 years of training is honed for that specialized activity.
Had you taken Len and Bennett out of the balance beem, even at 7'1, Len would probably destroy him.
Len's raw athleticism from gymnastic allows him to make finesse moves becomes gymanistics is purely finesse. Unfortunately, finesse with no explosiveness and no power means he isn't wizard material. Maybe running with Nash in a fun and gun but not DC.
We are grind out elbow in the mouth blow by you and power through contact and still score team.
Len and Porter don't fit that mold. They are soft finesse players in jamison mold. We left that era a long long time ago. Seraphin is showing alot of soft european style which is why he needs to traded for a real wizard style player. Singleton and Booker don't have at least two of the three traits needed to be a wizard either.
Explosiveness, Elite body control with the basketball, and demonstrated ability to finish through contact consistently.
You need to have at least two of these three traits in order to be a Washington Wizard.

[rockymac52]

I've taken a week off this board to reflect on some things, and I haven't come to any groundbreaking conclusions or anything, but at the very least, I'm now convinced that Anthony Bennett should not be an option for us at the 3rd pick (and that he probably isn't in our plans).

I like the kid's potential, and I don't think his floor is as low as a lot of people have made it out to be. I think he's a talented player that can do a lot of good things that our team specifically needs. But I also think that there are better options out there this year, and that he is somewhat of a risk, and I don't think we can afford a risk at this point.

Some of you guys seem to think this team needs to add another legit all-star caliber player if they want to ever become title contenders. I don't think that's necessarily the case, as I think Beal and Wall will both be all-star caliber players, if not better, this coming season and especially in the next 2-4 years. I think we're in a good spot to add a very good role player (a Porter or Oladipo type). I think if we swing for the fences with this pick, and Bennett doesn't turn out to be a stud, then we're in trouble. We all saw how bad the 2011 draft hurt us and set us back. We can't have an empty draft class like that again. We need at least something productive.

I think the pick is definitely going to be Noel (if he falls to us), Porter, Oladipo, or Len.

I don't think we're seriously considering the likes of McLemore, Burke, McCollum, Muhammad, Zeller, or Bennett anymore.

Sounds like a week off did you some good. Welcome to the dark side, though I dont have Noel in first list.

I would put McLemore up there and Burke, but knowing we would move them. And I do have CJM and Zeller in my trade back list with Adams.

Other then that, we see the same picture with were they are with Wall and Beal and how large the window is. The key is getting them help and getting them into the playoffs. They need that experience.

McLemore, who I haven't given much mind, actually would be an interesting temporary add. He has Beal like religious beliefs I believe. I think Beal and he know each other. And Beal being a quieter dude could help McLemore reach his potential. Another sharp shooter who is athletic would help them now and he should retain trade value. I just wish he had better handles.

Not that they would do it but it wouldn't be a terrible addition.

I'm the same way with McLemore. I really like the kid. I think he is arguably the best prospect in this draft. And I've argued in the past about how he could potentially fit with the Wizards with Wall and Beal, but recently I've basically stopped considering him as an option, because I don't think there's any chance the Wizards draft him because of Wall/Beal. I wish I had more faith in our front office being more open-minded in this regard, but I just don't see it happening in this situation.

If McLemore was capable of defending NBA SFs, then I'd be all in on him. I'm not sure if he's capable of doing that yet, though, so I'm still unsure. Even if he can't, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having a 3 guard rotation of Wall/Beal/McLemore, and just find a way to make it work, even if all three couldn't be on the court together at the end of the game, which is less than ideal. Even if it ends up where we trade Beal or McLemore in a few years because they're too good to be on the bench and we acquire an equally talented front court player. I can't help but feel we're dismissing a very very good prospect just because of his height and ideal position.

[sfam]

I can't imagine selecting Bennett with #3. Most of you probably recall 'Hot lunch' who was also 6' 8' and 230 lbs or so when he was drafted

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01528.html

If the implication here is that Bennett is fat, I disagree



Bennett clearly has risks, but I can definitely see the Wizards rolling the dice here on him. Many are making it sound like Bennett is a bust who probably should be working at 7-11, yet strangely so many professionals have him as a top 5 pick...

[sfam]

Len is a gymnast. His body only recent began banging against humans who were stronger than himself. His bone structure is set. IF Len was ten years old and still had alot of growing to do and we forced him to push the strongest kid in school out of the paint for an hour each day, his bone density and muscle structure would much much different than what we see now. It's way to late for len's bones to reset and for his muscle distribution to redesign. His joints are set for high impact from jumps but he is like a fish out of water when attempting to use lower body strength and move mass using his lower body. When he attempts to do this, his body gets injured because his joints during his growth spurt repaired themselves from high impact from jumps off a balance beam, not from applying 1000 pounds of pressure on one ankle joint moving his body mass and plus another 260lb body mass pushing back on that one joint.

Had Len's joint experienced these shock forces at a young age, his body would have molded into a killing machine for this particular task 10 years later as it fully matured.

It's only the unwise who see Len's height and completely ignore his inability to use lower body strength to move bodies, and his inability to lower his center of gravity in his knees.
the reason he can't is because if he does, he will get injured because his body was molded for that from his daily activities.

Now a guy like Bennett who has been playing basketball all of his life, and substantial time in the post, you see how thick his legs and how he moves players in the post for rebounds. He's been doing these activities since a very very young age and his body, after 10 to 15 years of training is honed for that specialized activity.

Had you taken Len and Bennett out of the balance beem, even at 7'1, Len would probably destroy him. Len's raw athleticism from gymnastic allows him to make finesse moves becomes gymanistics is purely finesse. Unfortunately, finesse with no explosiveness and no power means he isn't wizard material. Maybe running with Nash in a fun and gun but not DC.

We are grind out elbow in the mouth blow by you and power through contact and still score team.
Len and Porter don't fit that mold. They are soft finesse players in jamison mold. We left that era a long long time ago. Seraphin is showing alot of soft european style which is why he needs to traded for a real wizard style player. Singleton and Booker don't have at least two of the three traits needed to be a wizard either.

Explosiveness, Elite body control with the basketball, and demonstrated ability to finish through contact consistently.

You need to have at least two of these three traits in order to be a Washington Wizard.

I just wanted to say, I appreciate the paragraph returns near the top. I was actually able to read the first two paragraphs. Just for fun, I separate the rest of your post so perhaps I could read that as well.

[hands11]

I can't imagine selecting Bennett with #3. Most of you probably recall 'Hot lunch' who was also 6' 8' and 230 lbs or so when he was drafted

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01528.html

If the implication here is that Bennett is fat, I disagree



Bennett clearly has risks, but I can definitely see the Wizards rolling the dice here on him. Many are making it sound like Bennett is a bust who probably should be working at 7-11, yet strangely so many professionals have him as a top 5 pick...

And when was that taken ? He look pretty young there.

He looks a little thicker here.



But his weight is not really anywhere near the most important issue. I'm more worried about Noels weight.

[sfam]

He also doesn't look fat in that photo. Muhammad on the right doesn't look fat either.

EDIT: Just in case you hadn't noticed, Bennett is wearing a UNLV (EDIT: not UCLA as I mistakenly said) shirt in the photo I posted as well.

EDIT2: Noel claims he was 228 when he had the accident, and that Dr. Andrews asked him to lose weight to recover faster. If so, the weight is pretty much not an issue.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/9321266/2013-nba-draft-nerlens-noel-remains-front-runner-top-pick-other-draft-rumors

[AFM]

Len is a gymnast. His body only recent began banging against humans who were stronger than himself. His bone structure is set. IF Len was ten years old and still had alot of growing to do and we forced him to push the strongest kid in school out of the paint for an hour each day, his bone density and muscle structure would much much different than what we see now. It's way to late for len's bones to reset and for his muscle distribution to redesign. His joints are set for high impact from jumps but he is like a fish out of water when attempting to use lower body strength and move mass using his lower body. When he attempts to do this, his body gets injured because his joints during his growth spurt repaired themselves from high impact from jumps off a balance beam, not from applying 1000 pounds of pressure on one ankle joint moving his body mass and plus another 260lb body mass pushing back on that one joint.

Had Len's joint experienced these shock forces at a young age, his body would have molded into a killing machine for this particular task 10 years later as it fully matured.

It's only the unwise who see Len's height and completely ignore his inability to use lower body strength to move bodies, and his inability to lower his center of gravity in his knees.
the reason he can't is because if he does, he will get injured because his body was molded for that from his daily activities.
Now a guy like Bennett who has been playing basketball all of his life, and substantial time in the post, you see how thick his legs and how he moves players in the post for rebounds. He's been doing these activities since a very very young age and his body, after 10 to 15 years of training is honed for that specialized activity.
Had you taken Len and Bennett out of the balance beem, even at 7'1, Len would probably destroy him.
Len's raw athleticism from gymnastic allows him to make finesse moves becomes gymanistics is purely finesse. Unfortunately, finesse with no explosiveness and no power means he isn't wizard material. Maybe running with Nash in a fun and gun but not DC.
We are grind out elbow in the mouth blow by you and power through contact and still score team.
Len and Porter don't fit that mold. They are soft finesse players in jamison mold. We left that era a long long time ago. Seraphin is showing alot of soft european style which is why he needs to traded for a real wizard style player. Singleton and Booker don't have at least two of the three traits needed to be a wizard either.
Explosiveness, Elite body control with the basketball, and demonstrated ability to finish through contact consistently.
You need to have at least two of these three traits in order to be a Washington Wizard.

One of the greatest posts of all time. HOF Post.
Should be stickied.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

pretty awesome

People forget he shot a blazing 51 percent on two-point jumpers as a freshman, and has worked arduously to improve his three-ball this season. The result? 43 percent from three, with 88 percent of them being assisted on. Porter may deal with an adjustment period early on as he acclimates himself to the NBA three, but make no mistake about it, he can shoot the ball.

^ Regarding Porter. I did not know that his mid range shot was that efficient as a freshmen. With that sort of length and jumpshot accuracy it would be hard for him not to have good upside in terms of being able to create his own offense.

Even Beal got better at it as the season went on.

Very cool indeed, and interesting that Bird was brought up in jest a few post beforehand. But I am reminded of how well Bird used skill and feel to create the slightest amount of necessary space to get his shot off. His release was so high that his fadeaway was unstoppable, and he couldn't jump over a phonebook.

Otto is going to have a legit post game -- not one predicated on backing a guy down. But he'll find a spot and shot over guys. And if he gets pushed (or lets himself get pushed) off the block, he'll catch and take his man off the dribble and create that way.

I love this dude. Can't wait to see him with good players around him -- hopefully here.

I'd love to see Porter sport a 70's era mustache like Bird or Phil Chenier back in the day.

[verbal8]

I'd love to see Porter sport a 70's era mustache like Bird or Phil Chenier back in the day.

Maybe WTA can photoshop that for us

[tontoz]

Len is a gymnast. [/b]

One of the greatest posts of all time. HOF Post.
Should be stickied.

Your man-crush is getting a little out of hand. Like Yoda said "Control, control, you must learn control!"

[Ruzious]

Well I think Olynyk is the clear cut better athlete. I actually see Olynyk as having above average mobility for a PF. He has strong agility, a surprising first step putting the ball on the floor, rolled to the rim hard and had an impressive top speed running up the court. I don't understand the weak athlete comments for KO really. A 7 footer who moves that well isn't a weak athlete. Kelly is the guy who's feet will look stuck in cement compared to NBA peers, but if he plays C who won't need to be as fast, mind you.

If we were in the 1970's, Oly might have good mobility, speed, and athleticism for a PF. He doesn't pass the eye test, and he didn't pass the combine tests.

I didn't know it was pass or fail. Whose making the decision? Everybody seems to interpret the same data very differently.

Your post failed, and I was "the decider".

We've been posting here how many years? You know that when I give my opinion, I'm speaking for me - not anyone else - solamente me. If you don't agree with it, feel free to tell me why.

[Ruzious]

Len is a gymnast. [/b]

One of the greatest posts of all time. HOF Post.
Should be stickied.

Your man-crush is getting a little out of hand. Like Yoda said "Control, control, you must learn control!"

Yoda is Henry Rodriquez' pitching coach?

[BigA]

Len is a gymnast. [/b]

One of the greatest posts of all time. HOF Post.
Should be stickied.

Your man-crush is getting a little out of hand. Like Yoda said "Control, control, you must learn control!"

He's just happy to see WizD back posting in the run up to the draft. I can relate. For some reason, WizD seems to go away during the actual NBA season.

And this thread only added 17 pages in the last 24 hours. Need to pick it up here.

[leswizards]

Since many posters are sold on Oladipo, I thought I would point out that the split stats at 82games.com (caveat many posters don't trust the splits for very reasons) show that Bradley Beal was a better PG than SG. So, if people really want the Wizards to draft Oladipo, it is possible to get Wall, Beal and Oladipo 36 minutes a night with some creative lineups by Randy Wittman (ie, Wall gets 36 mpg as a PG, Beal gets 24 mpg as a SG and 12 mpg as PG, while Oladipo gets 24 mpg as a SG and 12 mpg as a SF).

[stevemcqueen1]

Since many posters are sold on Oladipo, I thought I would point out that the split stats at 82games.com (caveat many posters don't trust the splits for very reasons) show that Bradley Beal was a better PG than SG. So, if people really want the Wizards to draft Oladipo, it is possible to get Wall, Beal and Oladipo 36 minutes a night with some creative lineups by Randy Wittman (ie, Wall gets 36 mpg as a PG, Beal gets 24 mpg as a SG and 12 mpg as PG, while Oladipo gets 24 mpg as a SG and 12 mpg as a SF).

My impression is that Beal's handle is too rudimentary to have him play PG against a lot of matchups where he'd face pretty tough ball pressure. I've always thought of him as more of a SG/SF than PG/SG.

I think there would be a lot of nights where you wouldn't get to go with a Beal/Dipo line up.

After doing some thinking, I don't think a Dipo pick would be a bad pick because I think he's going to be a very good player. Hard to call a pick a failure when you get a good player out of it, as that alone is hard enough. But I think we can get a lot more out of a Porter or Zeller pick. Or Bennett, assuming he actually gets PT.

[rockymac52]

Since many posters are sold on Oladipo, I thought I would point out that the split stats at 82games.com (caveat many posters don't trust the splits for very reasons) show that Bradley Beal was a better PG than SG. So, if people really want the Wizards to draft Oladipo, it is possible to get Wall, Beal and Oladipo 36 minutes a night with some creative lineups by Randy Wittman (ie, Wall gets 36 mpg as a PG, Beal gets 24 mpg as a SG and 12 mpg as PG, while Oladipo gets 24 mpg as a SG and 12 mpg as a SF).

My impression is that Beal's handle is too rudimentary to have him play PG against a lot of matchups where he'd face pretty tough ball pressure. I've always thought of him as more of a SG/SF than PG/SG.

I think there would be a lot of nights where you wouldn't get to go with a Beal/Dipo line up.

After doing some thinking, I don't think a Dipo pick would be a bad pick because I think he's going to be a very good player. Hard to call a pick a failure when you get a good player out of it, as that alone is hard enough. But I think we can get a lot more out of a Porter or Zeller pick. Or Bennett, assuming he actually gets PT.

Beal may one day develop the ball handling skills to play PG for short stretches, but he's not there yet, and we don't want to rush him into a role he's not ready for, stunting his overall development. The 82games stats aren't meaningful enough because only about 10% of his playing time came at PG. I'm inclined to say that's too small of a sample size. Not to mention when he was technically at PG for 82games' purposes, Garrett Temple was in at SG, and in reality, Temple probably was actually playing PG, not Beal.

I think it's plausible that we could get away with 12 minutes a game, barring a Wall injury, with Beal at PG, but it's definitely more wishful thinking than not. I think a better situation would be if we drafted McLemore instead of Oladipo, because McLemore would probably be able to help take on some of the ball handling responsibilities with Beal, whereas Oladipo couldn't be relied on to act as a PG even for very small stretches in the game. Still, definitely far from ideal, and McLemore has a lot of the same strengths/weaknesses as Beal in terms of current ball handling ability and potential future ball handling abilities.

I think the more realistic scenario along these lines is drafting Oladipo or McLemore, and then playing a 3 guard lineup, with Oladipo at SF and (I'm not sure who defends SF between Wall/Beal/McLemore). This has its flaws too, but I think there's more hope, at least in the short-term.

There's no doubt that Oladipo or McLemore could hold their own on offense as a SF (at least in my mind). The real issue is whether or not they can defend opposing SFs, especially some of the bigger ones (think LeBron/Durant). Frankly I'm not sure what the answer to that is at the moment. Oladipo would be on the extreme low for an NBA SF, size-wise, although he has the weight typical of a SF, and his work ethic and approach to the game, especially defensively, leads me to believe that he would be up for the challenge and could hold his own. However, let's say Oladipo can get by defensively at SF, "holding his own" against the league's best SFs... I think he would most likely be a much less effective defender of SFs than he would be of SGs, so even if he holds his own at SF, we'd theoretically not be maximizing his talents and skill set by not letting him dominate opposing SGs defensively. Food for thought. And McLemore is even smaller, and despite being a very good on-ball defender at kU, it's doubtful that he could defend NBA SFs on a regular basis. It's hard to imagine Beal sliding over to SF and doing any better. Wall might actually matchup better with opposing SFs physically, but it might be too big of a stretch to put our PG at SF. I'd rather Wall have a size advantage defensively than try and survive with him guarding LeBron (yikes).

So unless I'm wrong about Oladipo and/or McLemore's ability to defend NBA SFs (and to be fair, I'm probably more optimistic about their ability to do so than the majority of this board), then it's hard to justify picking either of them with the 3rd pick. Yes, in theory we could draft either of them, and then let them be our 6th man, backing up Wall and Beal, getting somewhere between 26-30 MPG. We'd surely get productive minutes out of them, especially when they're at their natural SG position, but unfortunately, it's hard to imagine them all playing on the court at the same time, which would be especially unfortunate in the 4th quarter of a close game where you want your best players on the court. At the very end we go do some offense/defense substitutions to get all 3 out on the court on offense, but that's only for the last couple minutes or close games, and it may be too little too late.

I really like McLemore's game, and Oladipo's quite a bit as well, so I'm trying as hard as I can to find a way to make the rotation work, but it's becoming clear that it just isn't an ideal fit, and it's very unlikely to actually end up happening. I wish there was an easier way to get them all on the court at the same time, but it doesn't appear that's realistic.

[rockymac52]

Real quick, as long as we're talking about size... why do people keep saying Anthony Bennett is undersized? He didn't get measured at the combine, but he's listed at 6'8", so it's probably a fair assumption to say he's actually about 6'7" without shoes. What we do know is that he weights about 240 pounds right now, and his wingspan is 7'1".

Honestly, the 6'7" height SOUNDS undersized, but it really isn't all that much. The average NBA PF is 6'9", and there are PLENTY of productive PFs that are only 6'8", and a surprising amount of productive PFs that are 6'7" or 6'6". The average NBA PF's weight is 235, so Bennett is already slightly above average there. The average NBA PF's wingspan is about 7'1" or 7'2". So again, Bennett is right there in that range.

A lot of people can't help but focus on the "tweener" label, and compare Bennett to the likes of Michael Beasley and Derrick Williams. Both actually were remarkably similarly sized as Bennett, to be fair. BUT, we're forgetting about several other players that are nearly identical in height, wingspan, and weight to Bennett. Kenneth Faried is leading the pack in this regard, and I know how much everybody loves Faried around here. Then there's guys like Paul Millsap, Brandon Bass, our very own Trevor Booker, and even Kevin Love to some extent. I don't think the "undersized" label that Bennett has been given is fair.

So if his size for a PF is within the typical range of an NBA PF, even if it's on the lower end of that range, then that's a good sign for Bennett (at least, it's not a negative, as some of you seem to insist upon). But he still has that "tweener" label, despite this, and I'm inclined to think that he still is perceived as a tweener because of his all-around offensive game. Bennett can shoot 3s very well, and he can score in the post just as well. He can score in basically every standard play type at a very efficient rate. That sounds like a great thing at first glance, and it is. However, I think a lot of you guys focus on the fact that he can shoot 3s well, and then you start to put him in a box as a "stretch 4", or you assume that he loves to shoot 3s and play on the perimeter, instead of making his home in the post like a "normal" PF. But that's simply not true. He scored from post ups way more often than he did from jump shots this past season. He is a capable 3 point shooter, but he doesn't rely on his 3 point shot by any means. So please stop referring to him as a tweener (at least, in a negative light). He has the size of a prototypical NBA PF, and he has a diverse offensive skill set.

For example, let's say Bennett didn't have a 3 point shot. Let's say he just scored in the post a lot, and he was still very effective. Would we be concerned that he's a "tweener" if he couldn't shoot the ball? We'd probably make it a negative that he can't shoot from deep, which it would be (even though PFs can obviously be very effective with no perimeter shot). He'd be a much more one-dimensional offensive player, but I get the feeling that a lot of people here would be singing his praises as a traditional NBA big man, who is fantastic at scoring in the post. Alas, just because he CAN shoot from 3, we seem to discount his post skills, when in reality, they are no different than they would be in that alternate situation where he can't shoot the 3. Don't hold it against him that he can shoot the 3. Maybe start holding it against him if he gets to the NBA and starts jacking 3s instead of going down low. But that hasn't happened yet, and wasn't even close to happening in college, so I don't know why anyone would assume that's what he will do in the future.

[dangermouse]

The size isnt ideal, but his effort on D is what troubles me most.

[Dark Faze]

He measures 6'7 in shoes.

There's such a massive difference between 6'7 and 6'8.

[rockymac52]

He measures 6'7 in shoes.

There's such a massive difference between 6'7 and 6'8.

There really isn't. Especially when you consider his wingspan of 7'1" which is pretty impressive. His standing reach is therefore just as good as most other PFs. Who cares if his head is an inch taller than his opponent's when they're both standing evenly on the ground? I'm much more interested in wingspan and standing reach, where Bennett happens to fit the mold of an NBA PF perfectly.

Plus, even if he's short, he's produced despite that disadvantage so far, and there's no reason to believe he will stop producing at the next level.

Do you mean to tell me that if Anthony Bennett was an inch taller, standing at 6'8", that you'd consider him a good prospect, but if he's only 6'7" you only consider him an average prospect? Get real, man. Don't look at his height and use it as evidence to support your belief that he's going to be a bust.

How about Kenneth Faried? Faried is actually only 6'6" without shoes. But do you have a problem with Faried's ability to be an effective big man in the NBA? I doubt it. What makes Faried so different from Bennett then? Sure, they play different styles, but why is Faried able to remain productive despite his short height? And likewise, why does Bennett's style prevent him from being productive in the NBA?