Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[closg00]

Just heard during the Spurs vs Griz game that Corey Joseph requested to go to the D-League because he was not getting playing-time, he was eager to improve his game. The Spurs know how to find-em and they have the organization in-place that gives their players their best chance to succeed.

[Knighthonor]

I wonder. Could Jan have been a star if he played on another team instead of never coming to the wizards? Serious question

[montestewart]

I wonder. Could Jan have been a star if he played on another team instead of never coming to the wizards? Serious question

No. Serious answer.

[Knighthonor]

I wonder. Could Jan have been a star if he played on another team instead of never coming to the wizards? Serious question

No. Serious answer.

Umm, ok I wanted to wait for an answer as to why they drafted him at 6, but afraid of what the answer may be now.

[montestewart]

Just heard during the Spurs vs Griz game that Corey Joseph requested to go to the D-League because he was not getting playing-time, he was eager to improve his game. The Spurs know how to find-em and they have the organization in-place that gives their players their best chance to succeed.

You could probably get more out of watching and practicing with and against Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, etc. day in and day out, but sending down now and then to get minutes and see if anything stuck isn't a bad idea. Vesely was both a large investment and stuck at the end of the bench. If only to try and restore his confidence, a D-League assignment, even a brief one, might have helped.

[willbcocks]

TBH, I think the general consensus around here was that Kawhi was a reach at 6... But IIRC everyone here was disappointed we missed on Faried.

Although the poll was pretty split, I believe Kawhi was the #1 choice of Wiz fans on this board at our position. So while there wasn't a strong consensus, he still won the plurality vote.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I wonder. Could Jan have been a star if he played on another team instead of never coming to the wizards? Serious question

Star? No. Starter and energy player on a winning team? Yes.

The Philadelphia 76ers tem with Dr. J had a more skilled player than Jan named Bobby Jones. He moved like Jan but he had touch on his shot. Jones was a UNC Tar Heel who played for Dean Smith. He was a star of sorts. If Vesely could shoot he would be Bobby Jones.

As it is Jan can be another Darrell Arthur. If Jan can learn to hit a 10 foot shot, that is. Vesely can help a lot of teams off the bench.

[penbeast0]

Bobby Jones was a great player and one of the smartest defenders to ever play. He was consistently up towards the top of FG efficiency despite playing more away from the basket (a finisher, not a creator) and was a good and willing passer as well as holding the NBA record for most 1st team All-Def awards with 10 (2 in ABA). He was the best player on a team that beat out Dr. J's Nets and Artis Gilmore's Colonels for the best record in the ABA as a rookie (second best was Ralph Simpson). So, no, Jan is not Bobby Jones without a jump shot.

I think his top goal is more Chris Anderson . . . good situation, high effort, and about 400 tattoos and Vesely could be what the Birdman is.

[AFM]

I still think Jan will be the next Kobe. I see him as a Kobe/DRose hybrid. Amazing jab step/triple threat game, solid pull up jumper, spin move, crossover puts allen iverson to shame, can finish through contact like ZBo. Just give him time.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bobby Jones was a great player and one of the smartest defenders to ever play. He was consistently up towards the top of FG efficiency despite playing more away from the basket (a finisher, not a creator) and was a good and willing passer as well as holding the NBA record for most 1st team All-Def awards with 10 (2 in ABA). He was the best player on a team that beat out Dr. J's Nets and Artis Gilmore's Colonels for the best record in the ABA as a rookie (second best was Ralph Simpson). So, no, Jan is not Bobby Jones without a jump shot.

I think his top goal is more Chris Anderson . . . good situation, high effort, and about 400 tattoos and Vesely could be what the Birdman is.

Wow. This reminds me of Dan Quayle comparing himself to John Kennedy. penbeast. I apologize. You must have known Bobby Jones.

Vesely reminds me of Jones the same way Javale reminds me if Larry Nance. (I used the latter comparison in this forum a year or two before they preceded McGee in the dunk contest with a video of Larry Nance.). Skill notwithstanding, I see the same body type and similar movements.

Honestly, I don't remember if Jones defended PFs or SFs. I know nobody put him at C. Vesely never is used at SF. If he were his height would be a benefit his eFG.. He has good passing skills and he rebounds as well or better than Seraphin.

[closg00]

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... nst-vesely

[nate33]

Every time this thread gets bumped, I cringe. I'm just waiting for the news that Ernie has decided to throw good money after bad and taken the 4th year option on Vesely.

[penbeast0]

Bobby Jones was a great player and one of the smartest defenders to ever play. He was consistently up towards the top of FG efficiency despite playing more away from the basket (a finisher, not a creator) and was a good and willing passer as well as holding the NBA record for most 1st team All-Def awards with 10 (2 in ABA). He was the best player on a team that beat out Dr. J's Nets and Artis Gilmore's Colonels for the best record in the ABA as a rookie (second best was Ralph Simpson). So, no, Jan is not Bobby Jones without a jump shot.

I think his top goal is more Chris Anderson . . . good situation, high effort, and about 400 tattoos and Vesely could be what the Birdman is.

Wow. This reminds me of Dan Quayle comparing himself to John Kennedy. penbeast. I apologize. You must have known Bobby Jones.

Vesely reminds me of Jones the same way Javale reminds me if Larry Nance. (I used the latter comparison in this forum a year or two before they preceded McGee in the dunk contest with a video of Larry Nance.). Skill notwithstanding, I see the same body type and similar movements.

Honestly, I don't remember if Jones defended PFs or SFs. I know nobody put him at C. Vesely never is used at SF. If he were his height would be a benefit his eFG.. He has good passing skills and he rebounds as well or better than Seraphin.

Jones played a lot of center defensively early in his career with Denver, he was 6'10 and Brown built that switching defense around his skills . . . plus they would try to hide Issel defensively. With Philly he played a lot more SF and even guarded SG's when they went big with Erving, Moses, Clemon Johnson/Barkley and Jones to protect Erving. Better against centers than guards with his leaping ability.

How do you feel about "Birdman" Veseley accepting that offensively his job is just to slide in from the weakside for dunks when his man doubles or shows on the PnR. He's quick enough, can catch in motion, and can certainly dunk. Heck, Anderson hasn't missed a shot in the Indiana series!

[dobrojim]

Bobby Jones was one of my fav all time players. easily.

Wiz's fans most fervent wish ought to be that Ves becomes a small
fraction of the player Jones was.

I don't have much hope for this happening unfortunately. Part of me
still irrationally clings to the wish that JV could play like some of the
other big energy guys who actually have been successful in the NBA.
Players like Noah (I know yeah right) or even Birdman. Those are
models for players that JV should try to model himself after.

[rockymac52]

CBA/Salary Cap question:

Is Jan Vesely required to play for the Wizards this coming season if we don't cut or trade him? What I'm getting at is could we strongly encourage Vesely to go back to Europe this season (and maybe more until he is truly NBA ready)? Basically telling him that he's not in our current plans and that we'll cut him or keep him buried on the end of the bench or send him to D-League (is that still an option?) unless he agrees to go back to Europe and develop his game over there.

Anybody have any knowledge of how that would work, or if it's even allowed? What if Vesely chose to go back to Europe on his own, without our coercion, is that okay, or would we have to allow it because he's technically under contract with us? What would happen with his contract for our salary cap situation, would we still be charged for his number this season?

Just exploring the possibility, since this clearly isn't working out.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

CBA/Salary Cap question:

Is Jan Vesely required to play for the Wizards this coming season if we don't cut or trade him? What I'm getting at is could we strongly encourage Vesely to go back to Europe this season (and maybe more until he is truly NBA ready)? Basically telling him that he's not in our current plans and that we'll cut him or keep him buried on the end of the bench or send him to D-League (is that still an option?) unless he agrees to go back to Europe and develop his game over there.

Anybody have any knowledge of how that would work, or if it's even allowed? What if Vesely chose to go back to Europe on his own, without our coercion, is that okay, or would we have to allow it because he's technically under contract with us? What would happen with his contract for our salary cap situation, would we still be charged for his number this season?

Just exploring the possibility, since this clearly isn't working out.

Why go through all that when we can just buy him out? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna walk away from guaranteed money.
One thing is for sure, his 4th year option will not be picked up this season, considering EG is in the final year of his contract.

[rockymac52]

CBA/Salary Cap question:

Is Jan Vesely required to play for the Wizards this coming season if we don't cut or trade him? What I'm getting at is could we strongly encourage Vesely to go back to Europe this season (and maybe more until he is truly NBA ready)? Basically telling him that he's not in our current plans and that we'll cut him or keep him buried on the end of the bench or send him to D-League (is that still an option?) unless he agrees to go back to Europe and develop his game over there.

Anybody have any knowledge of how that would work, or if it's even allowed? What if Vesely chose to go back to Europe on his own, without our coercion, is that okay, or would we have to allow it because he's technically under contract with us? What would happen with his contract for our salary cap situation, would we still be charged for his number this season?

Just exploring the possibility, since this clearly isn't working out.

Why go through all that when we can just buy him out? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna walk away from guaranteed money.
One thing is for sure, his 4th year option will not be picked up this season, considering EG is in the final year of his contract.

Because if we buy him out we still have the cap hit from his salary, and we lose his future rights. If it's possible to send him back to Europe, then we might not have his $3.5 million on the books this season, so we could theoretically spend that elsewhere, and in the event that he ever manages to figure out how to play basketball, then we still have his rights and he can come back and contribute to us (and only us).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bobby Jones was a great player and one of the smartest defenders to ever play. He was consistently up towards the top of FG efficiency despite playing more away from the basket (a finisher, not a creator) and was a good and willing passer as well as holding the NBA record for most 1st team All-Def awards with 10 (2 in ABA). He was the best player on a team that beat out Dr. J's Nets and Artis Gilmore's Colonels for the best record in the ABA as a rookie (second best was Ralph Simpson). So, no, Jan is not Bobby Jones without a jump shot.

I think his top goal is more Chris Anderson . . . good situation, high effort, and about 400 tattoos and Vesely could be what the Birdman is.

Wow. This reminds me of Dan Quayle comparing himself to John Kennedy. penbeast. I apologize. You must have known Bobby Jones.

Vesely reminds me of Jones the same way Javale reminds me if Larry Nance. (I used the latter comparison in this forum a year or two before they preceded McGee in the dunk contest with a video of Larry Nance.). Skill notwithstanding, I see the same body type and similar movements.

Honestly, I don't remember if Jones defended PFs or SFs. I know nobody put him at C. Vesely never is used at SF. If he were his height would be a benefit his eFG.. He has good passing skills and he rebounds as well or better than Seraphin.

Jones played a lot of center defensively early in his career with Denver, he was 6'10 and Brown built that switching defense around his skills . . . plus they would try to hide Issel defensively. With Philly he played a lot more SF and even guarded SG's when they went big with Erving, Moses, Clemon Johnson/Barkley and Jones to protect Erving. Better against centers than guards with his leaping ability.

How do you feel about "Birdman" Veseley accepting that offensively his job is just to slide in from the weakside for dunks when his man doubles or shows on the PnR. He's quick enough, can catch in motion, and can certainly dunk. Heck, Anderson hasn't missed a shot in the Indiana series!

Vesely can do what Birdman is doing offensively. I recall him shooting 8-8 FGs in one game. penbeast, that is something he is quick enough to do for sure,

[nate33]

CBA/Salary Cap question:

Is Jan Vesely required to play for the Wizards this coming season if we don't cut or trade him? What I'm getting at is could we strongly encourage Vesely to go back to Europe this season (and maybe more until he is truly NBA ready)? Basically telling him that he's not in our current plans and that we'll cut him or keep him buried on the end of the bench or send him to D-League (is that still an option?) unless he agrees to go back to Europe and develop his game over there.

Anybody have any knowledge of how that would work, or if it's even allowed? What if Vesely chose to go back to Europe on his own, without our coercion, is that okay, or would we have to allow it because he's technically under contract with us? What would happen with his contract for our salary cap situation, would we still be charged for his number this season?

Just exploring the possibility, since this clearly isn't working out.

I can't find an answer on this

If teams are allowed to draft and stash guys overseas, I don't see why they can't "suspend" a contract and have a guy go play overseas for a while and then come back to finish it up. One hurdle might be that a FIBA team might not want to take the time to develop a guy whom they know is just going to go back to the NBA if he ever gets good.

[Illuminaire]

Aren't there FIBA rules preventing players on Euro contracts from signing NBA ones without resolving the original contract first?

I would think the NBA reciprocates the same way. Then again... Josh Smith after the lockout?