Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

[go'stags]

Again, Porter is going to be much, much more than a "solid role player". A solid role player is Martell Webster-Porter will be better than him by his second year I'd venture, with more room to improve.

[tontoz]

Interesting article on CSN Washington: http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... k-williams

Basically, the T'Wolves are making Williams available, and their target is Oladipo. Minnesota would have to get back our trash if any deal is made available. Something worth discussing?

Chad Ford has us taking Otto Porter in his ltest mock with the front office being split on Porter and Bennett.

Assuming Porter and Noel are gone at 3 it might be worth considering. I haven't watched DWill enough to make a call though.

His jumper seems to be his main problem. It did improve this past season but it is still weak which obviously limits his effectiveness as a stretch 4.

[No-Man]

Question on bigs in the draft: If you had to rank Withey, Dieng, Plumlee, or Muscala for the Wizards - what's your order, and note if there's a significant difference between the 4 of them.

Dieng

big gap

Plumlee-Withey-Muscala

[No-Man]

I love Lamb, I think he would've been a top5 pick in this year draft, and he will be at least at the same level as McLemore as a pro, but the Wizards doesn't need another SG.

[GhostsOfGil]

Interesting article on CSN Washington: http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... k-williams

Basically, the T'Wolves are making Williams available, and their target is Oladipo. Minnesota would have to get back our trash if any deal is made available. Something worth discussing?

Chad Ford has us taking Otto Porter in his ltest mock with the front office being split on Porter and Bennett.

Assuming Porter and Noel are gone at 3 it might be worth considering. I haven't watched DWill enough to make a call though.

His jumper seems to be his main problem. It did improve this past season but it is still weak which obviously limits his effectiveness as a stretch 4.

I wish I watched him more as well. His shooting numbers are pretty mediocre across the board. I initially thought he would benefit from playing with Wall but then remembered he was playing with Rubio who is a great PnP passer. I also thought he was being played out of position but 82games shows that the majority of him minutes were indeed at the 4. His Snyergy numbers are bad too. He shoots 46% on the PnR and an ugly 36% on spot up attempts.

[stevemcqueen1]

The Ilyasova trade idea is worth considering. Personally I like Ilyasova, but I'd be more apt to just try to get the stretch 4 in the draft. It's less expensive first of all, and I like Nene at PF if he comes in healthy and in good condition. Then have a guy to bring off the bench, like Muscala who I'd like to deal the 2nd rounders and maybe Singleton for a pick high enough to get him.

After Muscala my backup plan would be Erik Murphy. I think either would be a good fit.

And this is if we draft Porter and not Zeller or Bennett at 3.

I also like Nene/Ok together. I think the key issue with that is ALSO having
2 3 pt threats in the game in addition to Wall. Beal and Webster/Ariza/OP
satisfy that requirement. You want a 3 pt threat parked in BOTH corners.

That probably means three 3 pt shooters then because you'll have a wing around the FT line extended a lot. The hockey assist was a really potent weapon for us last year.

With Wall's penetration, it makes sense to put 3 long range shooters on the court with him. Both Porter and Bennett fill a need there. Maybe Zeller too if rumors of his deep range are to be believed.

[pancakes3]

Jeremy Lamb?

[rl25g]

could we flip Williams as a part of a larger deal?

Wiz trade: Nene, Seraphin, Vesley, # 3, #37
Wiz receive: Bosh, Ridnour, #9

Miami trades: Bosh
Miami receive: Nene, Williams, #37

Minn trades: Ridnour, Williams, #9
Minn receives: #3, Seraphin, Vesely

Minn uses Williams to move up in the draft

Miami add a true big man scorer while also adding a young stretch 4 prospect

Wizards get Bosh who is a perfect fit next to Wall

[verbal8]

Question on bigs in the draft: If you had to rank Withey, Dieng, Plumlee, or Muscala for the Wizards - what's your order, and note if there's a significant difference between the 4 of them.

Dieng

big gap

Plumlee-Withey-Muscala

Agreed, and I think most teams have a similar analysis. I think Dieng really belongs in the conversation with Adams and Zeller as middle of the 1st round picks. DX has Plumlee there, but IMO he doesn't belong on that tier.

[WizarDynasty]

wall needs his starting caliber stretch 4 next season. Let's make it happen pretend GM's.

[truwizfan4evr]

could we flip Williams as a part of a larger deal?

Wiz trade: Nene, Seraphin, Vesley, # 3, #37
Wiz receive: Bosh, Ridnour, #9

Miami trades: Bosh
Miami receive: Nene, Williams, #37

Minn trades: Ridnour, Williams, #9
Minn receives: #3, Seraphin, Vesely

Minn uses Williams to move up in the draft

Miami add a true big man scorer while also adding a young stretch 4 prospect

Wizards get Bosh who is a perfect fit next to Wall

Can heat even afford Nene contract?

[Ruzious]

Personally, I think all you guys are undervaluing Lamb. He's the same guy most liked two drafts ago, after U Conn won an NCAA title. All he did was have a better summer league than Bradley Beal and he averaged 21/5/3 in the D-League. He led in usage and was second in PER, fourth in points.

Agree with you on Lamb. I was real high on him after his freshman year at UConn when he was playing second fiddle to Kemba but then his soph year came and he struggled when he became the focus of the UConn offense. I still think that given the right opportunity Lamb can be a decent NBA player, although I don't think he's necessarily what the Zards need.

As for Lamb having a better summer league than Beal, well, that's kinda insignificant. A lot of guys tear it up in the summer league and never do squat during the regular season.

Lamb was selected a D-League all star and his team made the semifinals. He was arguably the best SG in the D League. When he's a good NBA pro I will remind you that you each thought Lamb, Adams or Olynyk, plus Wolters was bad for Seraphin and the third.

Most D-League all-stars won't get more than a cup of McDonald's coffee in the NBA - let alone become good NBA pro's. Lester Hudson was absolutely dominant in the D-League playoffs, but he's failed at least twice to stay on the Wiz roster and who knows how many times with other teams. Unfortunately, many teams just don't send their players there - Wiz included - so the talent level remains low. Lamb could become a good NBA player (though I don't think he'll be more than average), but him doing well in the D League or in Summer League play isn't a good indication that he will.

[truwizfan4evr]

could we flip Williams as a part of a larger deal?

Wiz trade: Nene, Seraphin, Vesley, # 3, #37
Wiz receive: Bosh, Ridnour, #9

Miami trades: Bosh
Miami receive: Nene, Williams, #37

Minn trades: Ridnour, Williams, #9
Minn receives: #3, Seraphin, Vesely

Minn uses Williams to move up in the draft

Miami add a true big man scorer while also adding a young stretch 4 prospect

Wizards get Bosh who is a perfect fit next to Wall

I like your trade lets hope Noel Don't fall to us at number 3 and we would missed out on him.

[The Consiglieri]

I don't consider solid starters to be as rare as superstars. To me, with a pick this high, you should be picking someone you think has a chance of being a superstar.

You can only work with what's out there.

If there's no clear cut superstar, then why try to force a "high upside" pick?

It's the same thing that gets Hasheem Thabeet picked #2. Or Martell Webster 6th a few years back. High upside picks can be a trap, especially when your talking high lottery. Wasn't Vesely supposedly an upside pick?

Agreed. You can't turn water into wine. I'd rather take a player who is a lock to at least be pretty good then roll the dice on a guy who's got like a 10% chance at being a star. I mean we aren't exactly known for developing raw talent...

I don't agree with this interpretation though because I already believe that Bennett has a high floor. This kind of thinking is more apropos of Len, whose apparently on Cleveland's short list, and has climbed up to 1-6 on most projections. Len is a pure guessing game, you're hoping he reaches his potential having no idea whether he will or not. Bennet is not that and it's a bit annoying to have him represented as a prospect he isn't. The huge roll the dice player in this draft at the top end is Len, not Bennett. If you want to say he's incomplete or completely raw on the defensive side I think that's reasonable, but the hallmark of the high projection of Bennett is based on the advanced offensive game that will translate. He's not going to be a bust offensively. If he fails, it will be based on his defense, injury, or mental make up (which contrary to some posts, appears to be perfectly fine). the offensive game is not a weakness, and as its so highly thought of, it can be counted on as much as anything in Porter's game and moreso.

If you want to raise the floor a bit with your pick, and lower the ceiling a bit that's fine, that's Porter as much as we can understand him, jack of all trades, fills the stat line, plays hard, etc, his liabilities won't be related to a clear requirement of a player on the court, in Bennet's case, they do, as he doesnt play defense anywhere near what a coach would like at this time. That does not equal bust however, boom/bust, or low floor. Players that are nearly impossible to defend, and are as advanced as Bennett on the offensive end have a tool kit just as much as Porter does.

To me the decision, if it were between those two players, would be what risk you're more willing to take, that you'll get a sound player that fills the stat line, brings great BBIQ, and is very complementary to the system but will almost certainly never be great, or go after an explosive player on the offensve end that is far more athletic, a great finisher, an elite scorer, but also at this time a great liability on D, and more likely to not carry the same BBIQ as Porter, or the same ideal length, and measurements for his position (although apparently his standing reach might mititage some concerns considering he's got crazy long arm according to some scouts).

If you can still justify Porter in that scenario, then that's fine, but I think there's definitely a case to be made, that the differences between their ceilings is far higher than the differences in their floors which is precisely why I prefer Bennett, but understand why some like Porter, especially considering team need and the complimentary fit to the team identity which seems perfect if everything works out.

[The Consiglieri]

Interesting article on CSN Washington: http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... k-williams

Basically, the T'Wolves are making Williams available, and their target is Oladipo. Minnesota would have to get back our trash if any deal is made available. Something worth discussing?

Chad Ford has us taking Otto Porter in his ltest mock with the front office being split on Porter and Bennett.

There's a lot of smoke on that one. I've seen that line at at least 3 or 4 different sites. May just be one site that they're all collecting their info from. I'd be really interested in that if it weren't for the fact that what we want and need won't be there at 9, well, maybe Zeller, but other than that unlikely. For a team like Charlotte, or New Orleans, I'd definitely consider that.

[Dark Faze]

I feel like saying Bennett won't be a bust offensively is just wishful thinking without merit. He doesn't even have a post game as a PF. He can shoot jumpers and attack the basket. That's it. It's not like he has advanced dribble euro steps layups, handle into a step back jumper, an advanced post game, etc. He's simply you're typical triple threat PF that's undersized and in NBA terms not anything all that special athletically.

I think he's definitely one of the better offensive prospects in this draft, but saying his offensive floor is low just seems to be wishful thinking. Guys have posted ridiciulous college numbers with nice efficiency like D-Will and Beasley and not shot well at all in the pros.

It's not a bias thing. Just like I think there's definitely a chance Porter could be a bust. It's just in the case of Porter, he actually has superior size and length for the position, so his ability to translate his game to the next level should be much smoother than Bennetts.

There are very, very few players who come into the league with a low floor offensively. Steph Curry and Durant are probably the only ones I can think of in the last half a decade.

[dobrojim]

math issue :

2 guys, one in either corner - 3 ball threats

1guy - Wall - out front

2 guys - high-low in the middle

unless they change the rules to allow > 5, there's no way you add another player
at the FT extended.

we've got guys that are at least potentially capable of being efficient
scoring or orchestrating in the case of Wall, for each of those positions.

[FAH1223]

Just draft Porter. The Wiz organization would do soemthing like pass up Porter to take a PF that is undersized and has zero defensive ability... plus this PF has no post moves and thinks he is a guard.

Screw that BS. Pick a guy who can play a position and play it naturally.

[Ruzious]

Interesting article on CSN Washington: http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... k-williams

Basically, the T'Wolves are making Williams available, and their target is Oladipo. Minnesota would have to get back our trash if any deal is made available. Something worth discussing?

Chad Ford has us taking Otto Porter in his ltest mock with the front office being split on Porter and Bennett.

There's a lot of smoke on that one. I've seen that line at at least 3 or 4 different sites. May just be one site that they're all collecting their info from. I'd be really interested in that if it weren't for the fact that what we want and need won't be there at 9, well, maybe Zeller, but other than that unlikely. For a team like Charlotte, or New Orleans, I'd definitely consider that.

Yeah, I don't really believe the Wiz have any interest at Bennett at 3. I wonder if they're spreading that rumor intentionally, so nobody looks to see who they really are considering at 3 along with Porter. This could be important in a trade down situation, so they don't leak who they'd hope to get in the trade down.

[The Consiglieri]

Personally, I think all you guys are undervaluing Lamb. He's the same guy most liked two drafts ago, after U Conn won an NCAA title. All he did was have a better summer league than Bradley Beal and he averaged 21/5/3 in the D-League. He led in usage and was second in PER, fourth in points.

Agree with you on Lamb. I was real high on him after his freshman year at UConn when he was playing second fiddle to Kemba but then his soph year came and he struggled when he became the focus of the UConn offense. I still think that given the right opportunity Lamb can be a decent NBA player, although I don't think he's necessarily what the Zards need.

As for Lamb having a better summer league than Beal, well, that's kinda insignificant. A lot of guys tear it up in the summer league and never do squat during the regular season.

Lamb was selected a D-League all star and his team made the semifinals. He was arguably the best SG in the D League. When he's a good NBA pro I will remind you that you each thought Lamb, Adams or Olynyk, plus Wolters was bad for Seraphin and the third.

I was reading through a recent Pelton chat and he referenced OKC being very unhappy with what they saw from Lamb when they watched him at practices. Really disappointed. I thought Lamb was one of the better values in the draft last year, a borderline steal, alas our affection for said players potential may have been misplaced. As for that deal, it was shockingly bad to me as well. I recognize that you view both players on that Faried/Milsap scale of players that were 15+ slots more valuable than where they were picked, but for now, that offer looks awful. It basically reads like 1 or 2 busts, and and 2 bench players for a possible star. There's a reason that scrolling through trades in history, whichever side got the player, nearly always won, over the side that got all the parts/pieces.