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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#701 » by stevemcqueen1 » Thu Jun 6, 2013 11:35 am

miller31time wrote:I don't know why we'd settle for 3 potentially mediocre players when we have Otto Porter (a rock at the SF position) waiting for us.

If, for whatever reason, Porter goes 1 or 2, that would mean Noel or McLemore falls to us. If Noel falls to us, we draft him. If McLemore falls to us, his stock is so high we could get a better piece than Williams and the 9th pick.

My 2 cents, at least.

EDIT: I guess I should also say that it's a definite Ernie move so I wouldn't be surprised. Just upset.



Agreed. Not interested in giving up Porter for Minnesota's bust. I'd rather take Anthony Bennett at three.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#702 » by stevemcqueen1 » Thu Jun 6, 2013 12:29 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:I don't want to call these "red flags" but for me, these 3 questions about Bennett put Porter ahead. (note, preferring Porter is not the same as hating on Bennett.)

1 - How does a 5-star McDonalds all-American end up at "only" UNLV?
2 - Why is he a year older than he should be?
3 - Do you see him as a long-term solution at PF or SF?
a) if PF, moreso than Nene who's signed long term?
b) if SF, moreso than what Porter brings to the table with his superior perimeter skills?


1 - He went to H.S. in a Vegas suburb, it was a natural fit. Dave Rice has had some success recruiting for UNLV recently, including getting Khem Birch to transfer from Pitt. Birch is another Canadian who was a top fifteen recruit in 2011. Bennett was the #7 recruit according to Rivals and ESPN and he would have been ranked higher if he hadn't gotten hurt his senior year. He had his choice of schools, but he ended up choosing UNLV because of location IIRC.

2 - He's got a '93 birthday, he was just born in March. He didn't lose a year anywhere. The guys with '94 birthdays like Noel reclassified to come out of H.S. a year early.

3 - PF.

A.) Fortunately Nene is interchangeable at the 4 & 5. You can play Bennett at PF and Nene at C. Nene's minutes also need to be carefully managed from here on out so that you can preserve his body and get the most out of him. Nene is going to eventually have to come off the bench as he ages IMO. Sooner than later, I don't think he's going to be a 30 minutes a night guy. I think you can feature a healthy rotation with Bennett, Nene, and Oak getting most of the PF & C minutes.

Also I wouldn't say Porter necessarily has superior perimeter skills. Both can shoot. Porter is a much better passer and a better defender and better off the ball player. But Bennett is a much better ball handler and slasher and he's much better shooting off the dribble, something Porter has struggled with so far.


1 - The proximity argument isn't very convincing. He's Canadian, started HS in WV before bouncing to Findlay which is a boarding school. Was it injury that killed his prospects?

2 - A '93 birthday makes him a sophomore. A March birthday cements it. He's 20. That's OLD for a freshman. For all the flack that Shabazz is getting for being a year older than advertised, he's only 4 months older than Bennett.

3 - I can see him being a mini-melo type player at PF but I have to squint real hard and if I squint too hard I see Derrick Williams. When he comes in for workouts, I'd have to see how he posts guys up.

Oh, and also we're currently carrying 6 guys on our roster that can fill in extended PF mins. Nene, Seraphin, Ves, Singleton, Booker, and Ariza. I know BPA is the general consensus to go especially since we've got such terrible options but what are we going to do with those guys IF we do sign Bennett? Just grin and bear it?


- Nothing killed his prospects. He was the #7 recruit. Do you really want to argue that he couldn't have gotten a scholarship from any school in the country? It's perfectly natural that a kid at Findlay Prep would go to UNLV.

- Shabazz has a '92 birthday. He was eligible to start school in the U.S. an entire year before Bennett if his parents had wanted. I had a classmate growing up who was a full 10 months older than me because of when his birthday was and his parents had the choice of starting him a year earlier or holding him out of school an extra year and they chose that. He wasn't slow or over-aged or anything, it was pretty standard to hold him back an extra year. That's probably what Bennett's parents did.

The only pure PF on the roster is Booker and he's a backup. Seraphin is a backup at the 4/5. Ves and Singleton are terrible and should not be a factor in any draft decision at all. Nene is interchangeable at the 4 & 5. Okafor has a year on his deal. Ariza is a SF. We've got a NEED at PF.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#703 » by Benjammin » Thu Jun 6, 2013 12:40 pm

We've got a NEED to pick the right player. I think Porter has fewer question marks than Bennett.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#704 » by Jay81 » Thu Jun 6, 2013 12:59 pm

We need a PF but reaching for one who is a tweener is not the best solution. Were not winning a title next year. If you want a PF, lets trade for Horford or see if we can acquire Kevin Love as a free agent. IF it was between picking someone like Derrick Favors and O Porter in the draft...thats one thing.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#705 » by Ironpanthr » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:15 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:I think Bennett's offense is pretty obviously transferrable. The face up skills alone will translate and be a potent weapon. And whatever else, he's going to be a devastating pick and roll & pick and pop finisher. That's exactly what you want from a modern forward.

He's going to have to hone his post game, but before he does, he's going to be able to score a lot of points in the lane on sheer quickness and explosiveness.

And he'll come in with the demonstrable ability to spot up and shoot with his feet set with range beyond the three point line.

Offense is the absolute last thing I worry about with Bennett. The dude can score.


Not intending to sound derisive, as I honestly just don't know the answer to this. What makes Bennett's offense obviously transferable, as compared to Williams and Beasley, who he is often lumped in with? Weren't the same things said about them? They called Beasley a Beast because he devoured small forwards with strength and was too quick for power forwards in college. Had range, had dribble drives, had a face up game. None of it has worked in the pros so far. Why is it such a sure thing for Bennett?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#706 » by hands11 » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:22 pm

Thursday, June 6th – at 12:30 pm at Verizon Center.

The following players are currently scheduled to participate in Thursday's workout:

Keion Bell | G | Missouri | 6'4, 200 lbs
Laurence Bowers | F | Missouri | 6'8, 227 lbs
D.J. Seeley | G | Cal St. Fullerton | 6'4, 195 lbs
James Southerland | F | Syracuse | 6'8, 215 lbs
DeShaun Thomas | F | Ohio St. | 6'7, 225 lbs
Khalif Wyatt | G | Temple | 6'4, 215 lbs
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#707 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:31 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
miller31time wrote:I don't know why we'd setting for 3 potentially mediocre players when we have Otto Porter (a rock at the SF position) waiting for us.

If, for whatever reason, Porter goes 1 or 2, that would mean Noel or McLemore falls to us. If Noel falls to us, we draft him. If McLemore falls to us, his stock is so high we could get a better piece than Williams and the 9th pick.

My 2 cents, at least.

EDIT: I guess I should also say that it's a definite Ernie move so I wouldn't be surprised. Just upset.



Agreed. Not interested in giving up Porter for Minnesota's bust. I'd rather take Anthony Bennett at three.

I don't necessarily agree. If Zeller is there at 9 (which most mocks say he will - though I doubt he will), then it's a smart trade. It also could work out if someone else slides to 9 and then becomes trade bate that EG manages to take advantage of. So, while it's more likely than not - not worth trading down for Williams, it could work out better - depending on the circumstances.

Bennett has far too many questions to consider seriously at 3 - even if he is worthy of being a top 3 pick. When push comes to shove, I'll be surprised if someone takes him before 9.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#708 » by hands11 » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:36 pm

Len Rehab

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

They seem to be doing it right. He is very focused and a hard worker.

They are even working on his English. Sounds like a comprehensive program.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#709 » by WizarDynasty » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:39 pm

Ironpanthr wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:I think Bennett's offense is pretty obviously transferrable. The face up skills alone will translate and be a potent weapon. And whatever else, he's going to be a devastating pick and roll & pick and pop finisher. That's exactly what you want from a modern forward.

He's going to have to hone his post game, but before he does, he's going to be able to score a lot of points in the lane on sheer quickness and explosiveness.

And he'll come in with the demonstrable ability to spot up and shoot with his feet set with range beyond the three point line.

Offense is the absolute last thing I worry about with Bennett. The dude can score.


Not intending to sound derisive, as I honestly just don't know the answer to this. What makes Bennett's offense obviously transferable, as compared to Williams and Beasley, who he is often lumped in with? Weren't the same things said about them? They called Beasley a Beast because he devoured small forwards with strength and was too quick for power forwards in college. Had range, had dribble drives, had a face up game. None of it has worked in the pros so far. Why is it such a sure thing for Bennett?

Bennett has the explosiveness to get by above average defensive small forwards that play him tight, beasley and d.williams don't have the explosivness to get by above average defense small forwards.

Bennett's first step >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>explosives than Beasley and D.Williams.
Bennett goes from 0 to 120 mph after just one step. Beasley and D.Williams are going in slow motion after one step or 0 to 25mph. NO comparison. Bennett is more powerful and can absorb violent nudges and doesn't get knocked off balance once he has his angle. Beasley and D.Williams look like Tortoise and Hare compared to Bennett after Bennett's first step.
Bennett is also a quick leaper, Beasley and D.Williams need to gather themselves before they explode like Javale McGee, and Cody Zeller. If you give them time to gather themselves...they can really get off the ground but if they don't gather themselves, they have very little hops and very little lift. Bennett burst off the ground without having to gather himself and he has alot of power even when given little time to gather himself.



Well I pretty plain and simple. Beasley and Derrick williams don't have Explosive first steps. They have quick first steps. Bennett has an explosive "burst" first step.
Beasley and Derrick have a quick first step but non powerful first step and they have slow second step.
Bennett has an explosive first step--meaning it's quick and powerful--and his second step is also quick and and powerful.
Beasley and Derrick Williams explosive first step. Quick is fine if you are light in weight like Allen Iverson, but quick really does mean anything if you don't have power at the same time when you get heavy in weight like Beasley and Williams.
Bennett is heavy and accelerate his massive frame like a race car or like a sprint shooting out of the blocks from a stand still position.
Beasley and Derrick Williams can't go from zero to 60 seconds. It takes them a while to gather themselves. Bennett, explodes and his body is moving at 120 mph after just one step and to be that massive and have that much handle with the basketball is deadly and the fact that you have to respect his three point shot makes his perfect for John Wall. On defense, Bennett has 10 times the lower body strength of beasley and derrick williams and he also has super long arms. Bennett will look like Zach Randolph in the post which isn't too bad. Bennett is NOT going to get backed down easily. Derrick Williams and Beasley have below average lower body strength at the 4 position and get backed down EASILY in addition to no shot blocking. Bennett has above average lower body strength.
Very large downgrade from Bennett to Beasley and Williams.
Williams wants to play the three but he doesn't have the leg rockets needed to get by small forwards.
Bennett has the explosiveness to get by nba small forwards. Bennett's first step is far more Explosive than Lebron James. It's on the same level as carmelo anthony's. to have that explosiveness and power and your defender has to guard you close to stop the three ball makes Bennett perfect for John Wall's drive and kick game. Absolutely no way a 4 can camp in the paint and wait for john wall to blow by his man. And on defense, the only thing bennett is giving up is shot blocking, he won't get backed down easily and he has above average lower body strength to move people around with his hips. Beasley and D.Williams have below average lower body strength.
Hopefully that clears things up for you.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#710 » by DCZards » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:39 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Bennett has far too many questions to consider seriously at 3 - even if he is worthy of being a top 3 pick. When push comes to shove, I'll be surprised if someone takes him before 9.


Probably my one and only question with Bennett, sadly, is his asthma. IMO, many of the concerns about his defense, age, attitude, size, etc. have been overblown by those on this board looking for any reason not to like Bennett. And, please, let's stop comparing Bennett to Beasley who's main problem is his head and not his size or basketball skills.

If Noel and Porter are gone, the next guy on my list, maybe other than McLemore, is Bennett. I agree with those who say Bennett will be big time scorer at the next level.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#711 » by pancakes3 » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:40 pm

Sorry, but again I have to ask why did the #7 recruit in the nation go to UNLV? Findley Prep is a basketball machine like Oak Hill and he's not "from" LV. I don't see the "perfectly natural" part about it. His lesser ranked teammates went to Arizona, Oregon, Ohio State... The last guy from his HS to go to UNLV was the class of 2009 and that guy was a 3-star recruit. In fact, Bennett is the first McDonald's all-American to sign with UNLV since... 1983. So what gives?

Shabazz's '92 birthday makes him a JUNIOR. His November birthday allows him wiggle room to excuse himself as a sophomore and play with the '93 kids, of the sophomore class. Bennett's March birthday lands him in the meaty part of the HS class of 2011. He clearly missed a year. If his parents held him back or whatever it's just as relevant to the conversation as Shabazz's age.

As to the PF. I agree. Out of our 6 PF's only a cumulative 1.75 of them are viable. The fact is they're still on the roster and account for 6 of the 9 long term contracts. It's not a dealbreaker but it's at least something to keep in mind.

Damn. 9 guys under contract and we're already at the cap. A trade HAS to be in the works. I think Ariza is not long for this team, and hopefully neither will Jan and Seraphin.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#712 » by DCZards » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:49 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Sorry, but again I have to ask why did the #7 recruit in the nation go to UNLV? Findley Prep is a basketball machine like Oak Hill and he's not "from" LV. I don't see the "perfectly natural" part about it. His lesser ranked teammates went to Arizona, Oregon, Ohio State... The last guy from his HS to go to UNLV was the class of 2009 and that guy was a 3-star recruit. In fact, Bennett is the first McDonald's all-American to sign with UNLV since... 1983. So what gives?


I don't get the big deal about Bennett going to UNLV. So what? Maybe it was because he was playing high school ball in Las Vegas area and had a comfort level with UNLV---the school's coaches and his potential teammates. He may have also figured that he was only going to spend one-year in college so why uproot for 6-8 months when he could stay in Las Vegas and still prove that he was a top 5 NBA prospect.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#713 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:50 pm

Ironpanthr wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:I think Bennett's offense is pretty obviously transferrable. The face up skills alone will translate and be a potent weapon. And whatever else, he's going to be a devastating pick and roll & pick and pop finisher. That's exactly what you want from a modern forward.

He's going to have to hone his post game, but before he does, he's going to be able to score a lot of points in the lane on sheer quickness and explosiveness.

And he'll come in with the demonstrable ability to spot up and shoot with his feet set with range beyond the three point line.

Offense is the absolute last thing I worry about with Bennett. The dude can score.


Not intending to sound derisive, as I honestly just don't know the answer to this. What makes Bennett's offense obviously transferable, as compared to Williams and Beasley, who he is often lumped in with? Weren't the same things said about them? They called Beasley a Beast because he devoured small forwards with strength and was too quick for power forwards in college. Had range, had dribble drives, had a face up game. None of it has worked in the pros so far. Why is it such a sure thing for Bennett?


Well Beasley's failures have nothing to do with his size or athleticism. He had offensive success early in his career but his inability reach stardom has more to do with his mental make up and addiction to chiefing bobs.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#714 » by Ironpanthr » Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:58 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:
Hopefully that clears things up for you.


Yup. You've said enough to get me interested.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#715 » by DMVleGeND » Thu Jun 6, 2013 2:03 pm

DCZards wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:Sorry, but again I have to ask why did the #7 recruit in the nation go to UNLV? Findley Prep is a basketball machine like Oak Hill and he's not "from" LV. I don't see the "perfectly natural" part about it. His lesser ranked teammates went to Arizona, Oregon, Ohio State... The last guy from his HS to go to UNLV was the class of 2009 and that guy was a 3-star recruit. In fact, Bennett is the first McDonald's all-American to sign with UNLV since... 1983. So what gives?


I don't get the big deal about Bennett going to UNLV. So what? Maybe it was because he was playing high school ball in Las Vegas area and had a comfort level with UNLV---the school's coaches and his potential teammates. He may have also figured that he was only going to spend one-year in college so why uproot for 6-8 months when he could stay in Las Vegas and still prove that he was a top 5 NBA prospect.


Exactly. He could've gone to UK if he wanted to, the biggest recruiting powerhouse in the country.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#716 » by stevemcqueen1 » Thu Jun 6, 2013 2:07 pm

Ironpanthr wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:I think Bennett's offense is pretty obviously transferrable. The face up skills alone will translate and be a potent weapon. And whatever else, he's going to be a devastating pick and roll & pick and pop finisher. That's exactly what you want from a modern forward.

He's going to have to hone his post game, but before he does, he's going to be able to score a lot of points in the lane on sheer quickness and explosiveness.

And he'll come in with the demonstrable ability to spot up and shoot with his feet set with range beyond the three point line.

Offense is the absolute last thing I worry about with Bennett. The dude can score.


Not intending to sound derisive, as I honestly just don't know the answer to this. What makes Bennett's offense obviously transferable, as compared to Williams and Beasley, who he is often lumped in with? Weren't the same things said about them? They called Beasley a Beast because he devoured small forwards with strength and was too quick for power forwards in college. Had range, had dribble drives, had a face up game. None of it has worked in the pros so far. Why is it such a sure thing for Bennett?


I think that's a natural question. I think his offense translates because he's a special athlete by NBA standards and he scores in ways that NBA players score. He's using big time skills to get his points as the guy, often over multiple defenders, not just getting points off of gimmicky things or as the second banana with an easy match up. He's doing things he'll do in the NBA like face up drives, perimeter drives, catching and shooting with his feet set, cleaning up the offensive glass for easy second chance points, and catching the ball from the top of the paint and using his explosiveness to get to the rim. He'll be able to take those skills to any team regardless of scheme. You can pass him the ball at the three point line and he'll figure out a way to get a shot.

But you also have to remember that Beasley can score in the NBA. I remember watching him drop like 45 one night in Minny against the Heat IIRC. He did it scoring in basically every way that you can score. Talent and ability has never been an issue for him. It's all mental. He's got a drug problem and his mind is not right, he's never become a professional.

As for DWill, I think most of what's limited him is playing behind Kevin Love and getting limited opportunities at his natural PF position. But there were some concerns with him. First, he was a one year wonder who wasn't good as a frosh. Second, his shooting was fluky due to few attempts, Bennett is a much more proven shooter than Dwill was for example. And you've subsequently seen DWill struggle with his shot in the NBA. Third, I never felt DWill was that fast. He had a great second bounce but you didn't really see that quickness and explosiveness in other parts of his game. Bennett runs the floor better and is a really explosive player. He blows by guys off the dribble.

I think Bennett is just flat out better than DWill. Better shooter, better handles, better athlete.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#717 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 6, 2013 2:13 pm

DCZards wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Bennett has far too many questions to consider seriously at 3 - even if he is worthy of being a top 3 pick. When push comes to shove, I'll be surprised if someone takes him before 9.


Probably my one and only question with Bennett, sadly, is his asthma. IMO, many of the concerns about his defense, age, attitude, size, etc. have been overblown by those on this board looking for any reason not to like Bennett. And, please, let's stop comparing Bennett to Beasley who's main problem is his head and not his size or basketball skills.

If Noel and Porter are gone, the next guy on my list, maybe other than McLemore, is Bennett. I agree with those who say Bennett will be big time scorer at the next level.

Yeah, why should we be concerned about the defense of the 3rd pick in the draft - just because he has a bad rep for both his effort and ability to play it? Who cares if we don't know the reach of a 6'7 PF? Defense shmefense. That's for common role players; not supastahs like Bennett and Muhammad. Passing? Pishtosh. He can make 19 footers 36% of the time - hoist em.

And why should we be at all concerned about him being injury-prone even though he had serious shoulder problems last season and wasn't able to complete his junior and senior seasons in HS because of injuries?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#718 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 6, 2013 2:17 pm

Ironpanthr wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:
Hopefully that clears things up for you.


Yup. You've said enough to get me interested.

:lol: Diplomatic post of the year.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#719 » by FAH1223 » Thu Jun 6, 2013 2:23 pm

Jay81 wrote:We need a PF but reaching for one who is a tweener is not the best solution. Were not winning a title next year. If you want a PF, lets trade for Horford or see if we can acquire Kevin Love as a free agent. IF it was between picking someone like Derrick Favors and O Porter in the draft...thats one thing.


Exactly.

Tweeners taken that high in the draft is a no-no. Take the guy who plays one position and plays it well. Bennett looks even worse than Jamison on defense. Do we really want that liability on the court?

Just take Porter or Noel and keep it moving.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#720 » by Dat2U » Thu Jun 6, 2013 3:11 pm

So who's the last highly drafted tweener that was a success?

Any recent top 10 picks?

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