2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Original thread has quickly become the Anthony Bennett thread, so I just created this one for separate discussion concerning the later round prospects of this draft class. Hope this won't be an issue.


Every draft there are certain players who when drafted by another team leaves me feeling a little bit deflated, these are my top three with Thomas as my darkhorse 2nd rounder.


1. Jackie Carmichael---Illinois State--- I really like Jackie Carmichael, believe he is the type of player the Wizards were trying to land when they began the rebuild in toughening up in the interior when they drafted both Kevin Seraphin and Trevor Booker. Has inside game, is a physically strong player, can hit the open shot, rebounds, and defends the paint. But what stood out to me as much as anything was his maturity. Just comes off as NBA ready. Believe he could replace Trevor Booker very easily. http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Jac ... rview-4224



2. Mike Muscala----Bucknell---I don't think Muscala has the same impact at center in the NBA as he did in college as many people seem to but I do think his value skyrockets as a PF for the Wizards. He'd provide length, paint presence and rebounding---two things Vesely does not. http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Mik ... rview-4226


3. Zeke Marshall----Akron- I believe Marshall could have the same impact that McGee did as a shot blocking big man, Marshall isn't without his weaknesses but a questionable basketball IQ didn't seem to be among them. Good shot blocker, quick feet, nice shooting form and has shown the ability to knock down the open jumper.


4. *Adonis Thomas---Memphis---This was the guy at SF I was hoping panned out during the college season because he fit the bill of the exact type of SF I felt the Wizards needed. Explosive, good size, and ability to take a defender one on one. Unfortunately he didn't shoot the ball very well and I questioned his decision making at times. Nonetheless, if the Wizards were to go big man with the top pick and trade the higher of the second round picks I don't think it would hurt too much to bring in Thomas to change things up a little.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________


Honourable mentions:

Ian Clarke---Belmont
Trevor Mbakwe---Minnesota
Jack Cooley---Notre Dame
Andre Roberson---Colorado
Arsalan Kazemi---Oregon

[Rafael122]

Thomas seems like one of those athletic freaks who doesn't do anything else. All I hear is how high he can jump, nothing else.

I like Muscala but he seems like someone who would get taken by the Spurs or someone of that ilk, probably the best shooting big man in the draft, and he could easily be the pick and pop player Wall wants. But, the thing with him and Carmichael is that they played in a lesser conference so how will their success in college translate to the pros?

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Thomas seems like one of those athletic freaks who doesn't do anything else. All I hear is how high he can jump, nothing else.

I like Muscala but he seems like someone who would get taken by the Spurs or someone of that ilk, probably the best shooting big man in the draft, and he could easily be the pick and pop player Wall wants. But, the thing with him and Carmichael is that they played in a lesser conference so how will their success in college translate to the pros?

Don't think Muscala would have as much success in the NBA if he were to be played at center, he's a player who comes off as passionate about the game so that's a plus, he has good range and I think his low post game translates better to the NBA as a PF. Have to see how things play out if he is played as a center.

I think Jackie Carmichael's strength and rebounding tranlsates well to the NBA if nothing else. He's a pretty tough player, has athleticism, and he's a pretty good midrange shooter.

Thomas' athleticism and explosiveness is what has me believing if he works hard he can become a decent scorer. I think in his best game he put up 23 and was knocking down jump shots.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

The 2nd round has more questions just regarding where we'll be, with Ernie already mentioning the intention no more than 2 rookies to the team, as well as a desire to possibly move up.

Thinking the more likely scenario is they use 38 and sell the 54 for cash.

At 38 I like Muscala, who I see as an ideal pick and pop guy at PF. I like Erick Green as a combo scoring guard of the bench. I like Erik Murphy as an off the bench stretch 4 solution. And I like Colton Iverson as an Okafor apprentice.

Ray McCallum, Deshaun Thomas, and Solomon Hill are players that would interest me at 54 if they do keep it.

[montestewart]

Thinking the more likely scenario is they use 38 and sell the 54 for cash.

I've seen high 2nd rounders fetch 2 million or more. A low 2nd rounder, I would think 1 million, maybe less.

EG's trick is selling the notion that rookies/draft picks are necessarily inferior to players already on the roster. Whoever they pick at 3 will likely be inferior to Wall or Beal. Whoever they pick at 38 may be lucky to even crack the rotation. At 54, forget it. Remember N'Diaye? He may as well just say, "Who would you rather have, Vesely and Singleton, or a complete waste of roster space?"

That man needs to stop pretending. They've only got 9 roster spots filled. If they sign Webster, that's 10. Four of those ten players played like butt much or all of last year (well, A.J. Price is OK as a 3rd PG, but he was in over his head). How are the Wizards going to find the next Ramon Sessions. Marcin Gortat, Isaiah Thomas, Paul Milsap, Amir Johnson (to name a few that went late in the 2nd) if they don't draft them and bring them into camp. Maybe they could fill out the roster with some decent end-of-bench rookies, and possibly create some competition and valid alternatives for some of the mediocre "veterans"? If it doesn't work out, terminate a non-guaranteed contract.

But then I guess they don't get that $1 million. But hey, I can't tell them what to do, it's not my money. My money is the money for tickets they no longer get.

[Dark Faze]

I really want Withey. I'd love to trade both picks to move up in a range to get him. I think he's going to be the best rim protector in this draft from day 1, with Dieng close behind and Noel eclipsing both in time.

I like Muscala. I think he's going to come into the league and be Jason Smith though--being a guy who is below average on D and on the glass but knocks down the elbow jumper everytime you execute the pick and pop nicely. That's not a bad thing to have at all, it's better than anyone we have off the bench, but I think having a 7 foot rim protector in Withey is a lot more valuable.

Ideally I'd like to move Seraphin, Singleton and a TPE for a three team swap with the Rockets in order to get Thomas Robinson. Say a swap with San Antonio, who would get more use out of coaching up Singleton and Seraphin than any pick they get at #28. A frontcourt rotation of Nene,Okafor, T-Rob, and Withey is going to be the most physical in the league.

Going straight chalk though I go with Mike Muscala and Peyton Siva I guess. I don't think much of Siva though. I'd rather get Jordan Farmar who I heard is interested in returning to the NBA...he's basically a more athletic AJ Price with championship experience.

[Dat2U]

I don't hold Muscala in the same high regard as others do. The time I saw him play, he really did not respond well to physicality. That scares me. What's going to stop players from simply out muscling him at either the 4 or 5? I don't think he's got the strength to hold up and considering he's almost 22, I wonder about his ability to adjust or add strength to his frame.

I have similar issues with Withey. Being a relatively weak 22 yr old playing C doesn't give me alot of optimism about being anything more than being the 4th or 5th big off a team's bench.

My favorite pick would be Isaiah Canaan. I think he's a steal as a 2nd rounder and potentially a very solid backup on the next level. Pierre Jackson is probably my backup choice at this stage.

[fishercob]

Wizards Insider piece on Siva.

Following a workout that lasted approximately an hour on the auxiliary court at Verizon Center, Siva chatted briefly with team president Ernie Grunfeld as well as Tommy Sheppard, vice president of basketball administration, and player personnel vice president Milt Newton.

Siva then had further discussions in private with members of the Wizards front office before re-emerging to speak with reporters.
“They really like my game,” said Siva, adding he also spoke with Wall before arriving in the District. “They really like the way I’m able to defend and run the pick-and-roll. They said that was really one of my strong points, so just continue to work on that and just continue to shoot consistently. They thought I shot the ball really well today.”

The pick and roll bit jumps out at me a bit. It may be that they are more focused on a true backup point guard than a combo guard because they foresee Webster playing more backup SG this year. The Wiz would be helped a lot by another dynamic young ballhandler who can break down a D off the dribble and via the pick and roll.

[LyricalRico]

^ I'd give Siva a look. Seems to have some JJ Barea in him. Maybe not as good of an outside shooter, but more of a PG (hence the pick and roll comments).

[montestewart]

I don't hold Muscala in the same high regard as others do. The time I saw him play, he really did not respond well to physicality. That scares me. What's going to stop players from simply out muscling him at either the 4 or 5? I don't think he's got the strength to hold up and considering he's almost 22, I wonder about his ability to adjust or add strength to his frame.

Was that the Butler game? I've heard similar, and see in his game logs some weak game (FG% or generally weak game) where he was he appears outplayed by a bruiser, but I haven't seen him, and some of the youtube clips seem to show him holding his own against beefy bigs. Any more experienced Muscala watchers out there?

My favorite pick would be Isaiah Canaan. I think he's a steal as a 2nd rounder and potentially a very solid backup on the next level. Pierre Jackson is probably my backup choice at this stage.

I see Wolters has probably moved out of reach for the 2nd pick as it stands now. What are the chances that any PG worth taking a look at slips to the late 2nd?

[Ruzious]

^ I'd give Siva a look. Seems to have some JJ Barea in him. Maybe not as good of an outside shooter, but more of a PG (hence the pick and roll comments).

Siva can't shoot. Unless he makes a dramatic drastic improvement there, he's not going to play in the NBA. He's a poor man's Jordan Farmar, and Farmar barely made it. Siva was so effective in college due to the use of full-court presure 40 minutes a game. He and Smith would wear opponents out with that. That's not used in the NBA...

On Muscala, he is going to make it. DX has a new workout video on him. He's working with one of the top trainers in the field - who says he's going to be living in the gym all summer. He is going to get stronger. Remember, he's a 21 year old senior; not 23 like a bunch of the senior bigs rated ahead of him. Anyone remember David Lee when he was at Florida? Muscala is built exactly like Lee was then - except he's taller and longer. Lee built himself up so that he can handle physicality and dish it out - very well. Muscala will do the same. And he'll be just as skilled as Lee - he's moreso than Lee was at Florida. A bunch of you guys (the honest ones) are going to say in a few years - Wow, I really underestimated Muscala.

[Dark Faze]

Dat, I didn't see any weakness from Withey on the defensive end. Do you have any clips? I ask out of genuine honesty because he seemed to stand his ground really well and seemed to be a Hibbert like force at the college level.

[verbal8]

On Muscala, he is going to make it. DX has a new workout video on him. He's working with one of the top trainers in the field - who says he's going to be living in the gym all summer. He is going to get stronger. Remember, he's a 21 year old senior; not 23 like a bunch of the senior bigs rated ahead of him. Anyone remember David Lee when he was at Florida? Muscala is built exactly like Lee was then - except he's taller and longer. Lee built himself up so that he can handle physicality and dish it out - very well. Muscala will do the same. And he'll be just as skilled as Lee - he's moreso than Lee was at Florida. A bunch of you guys (the honest ones) are going to say in a few years - Wow, I really underestimated Muscala.

Muscala could end up being as good as the 4th best big(F/C) in this draft. Noel, Zeller and Len should clearly be better.

I would take Adams, Olynyk and Gobert ahead of him, but realize they have a fair amount of bust risk. I would take Dieng, even if he has a lower ceiling, that Muscala could exceed. There isn't any danger of those guys being available in the 2nd round.

Withey, Plumlee(probably underrating him), Nogueira seem to be a toss-up with Muscala.

[dobrojim]

I liked Muscala when I heard one of his workouts was concluded
with barely any misses on his shots. Ultimately basketball is
about putting the ball in the basket and it appears he as the
ability to do that.

Re Siva, his shooting is something that could have already improved.

I don't get DX's big man ratings...

Len - 4
then Adams, Zeller, Olynyk (10, 11, 12)
then Dieng lower yet

seems to me that Z and Oly ought to be ahead of the other 2 unless
you REALLY give weight to potential and 'mere' size over basketball skills.

Dieng seems like a guy who may not get much better than he is now
but simultaneously, is a guy who is serviceable right away. He's not a project.

[verbal8]

Dieng seems like a guy who may not get much better than he is now
but simultaneously, is a guy who is serviceable right away. He's not a project.

He reminds me a lot of Nzar Mohammed, who is pretty much the definition of an average NBA big man(PER around 15 and played mostly on MLE contracts). If you get that with the 20th pick, I think you are doing pretty well.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

I don't hold Muscala in the same high regard as others do. The time I saw him play, he really did not respond well to physicality. That scares me. What's going to stop players from simply out muscling him at either the 4 or 5? I don't think he's got the strength to hold up and considering he's almost 22, I wonder about his ability to adjust or add strength to his frame.

I have similar issues with Withey. Being a relatively weak 22 yr old playing C doesn't give me alot of optimism about being anything more than being the 4th or 5th big off a team's bench.

My favorite pick would be Isaiah Canaan. I think he's a steal as a 2nd rounder and potentially a very solid backup on the next level. Pierre Jackson is probably my backup choice at this stage.

I don't hold him in real high regard when I think of him playing C. He blocked shots but never came across as an imposing figure at C; Muscala's shot blocking ability is about the only thing i'm not really sold on despite his college numbers. I do think he can be good in help defense though.

He's a good rebounder, can shoot and is pretty good at getting and maintaining low post positioning.

The Wizards really need a big man who can make free throws when he gets to the line. Muscala got to the line a lot in college and is very good from there.

[pancakes3]

If I only got to pick just 1, it'd be Erik Murphy. 6'10 with a 9'0 reach. Can score from inside and out. I mean jeeze, he's bigger, taller, and a better shooter from everywhere on the court than Chandler Parsons.

[popper]

^ I'd give Siva a look. Seems to have some JJ Barea in him. Maybe not as good of an outside shooter, but more of a PG (hence the pick and roll comments).

Siva can't shoot. Unless he makes a dramatic drastic improvement there, he's not going to play in the NBA. He's a poor man's Jordan Farmar, and Farmar barely made it. Siva was so effective in college due to the use of full-court presure 40 minutes a game. He and Smith would wear opponents out with that. That's not used in the NBA...

On Muscala, he is going to make it. DX has a new workout video on him. He's working with one of the top trainers in the field - who says he's going to be living in the gym all summer. He is going to get stronger. Remember, he's a 21 year old senior; not 23 like a bunch of the senior bigs rated ahead of him. Anyone remember David Lee when he was at Florida? Muscala is built exactly like Lee was then - except he's taller and longer. Lee built himself up so that he can handle physicality and dish it out - very well. Muscala will do the same. And he'll be just as skilled as Lee - he's moreso than Lee was at Florida. A bunch of you guys (the honest ones) are going to say in a few years - Wow, I really underestimated Muscala.

Agree - Muscala like Zeller needs to move to the 4 to be effective in the NBA. I hope EG can figure out a way to move our 38 up a few spots to grab him.

[closg00]

Perhaps we take another shot at finding a back-up PG in the draft, but Ernie already said he wasn't taking on 3 rooks which is actually believable coming from him.

[rockymac52]

I really want Withey. I'd love to trade both picks to move up in a range to get him. I think he's going to be the best rim protector in this draft from day 1, with Dieng close behind and Noel eclipsing both in time.

I like Muscala. I think he's going to come into the league and be Jason Smith though--being a guy who is below average on D and on the glass but knocks down the elbow jumper everytime you execute the pick and pop nicely. That's not a bad thing to have at all, it's better than anyone we have off the bench, but I think having a 7 foot rim protector in Withey is a lot more valuable.

Ideally I'd like to move Seraphin, Singleton and a TPE for a three team swap with the Rockets in order to get Thomas Robinson. Say a swap with San Antonio, who would get more use out of coaching up Singleton and Seraphin than any pick they get at #28. A frontcourt rotation of Nene,Okafor, T-Rob, and Withey is going to be the most physical in the league.

Say no to Jeff Withey. I understand that no one would be drafting Withey for offense, but it's still worth mentioning that he's a black hole offensively, especially at the pro level. But here's my problem for him on defense... yes, he's long and can block shots. But he's a twig, and it shows.

Last year he was matched up with Kimmie English from the Pistons (a relatively weak and thin guy who arguably lacks the size to play SG in the NBA and scores most of his points on the perimeter) because of a strange guard-heavy Mizzou roster. They played 2 games against each other that year.

Withey Game 1: 0 points (0-1), 4 rebounds, 1 block
Withey Game 2: 2 points (1-1), 1 rebound

Again, his calling card is his defense, not his offense, but come ON. He's being defended by a 6'4" 190 pound perimeter player. He couldn't manage to even get up more than 1 shot in either of those games, or get more than 1 offensive rebound in that first game? Wow.

I won't judge him for the numbers English put up on him on the other side of the ball, because no NBA center would be able to keep up with an NBA SG (and I'm not sure, but kU might have let TRob guard Kimmie and Withey stay down low on D, can't remember).

Withey has progressed some since last year, to be fair, and it's only 2 games, but wow, they left a lasting impression on me. That is absolutely pitiful.