Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

[sfam]

I know. You and I can have our debate as a light-hearted counterpoint to more strained exchanges.

Some of the exchanges have gotten strained here. The thing with top athletes though is past history of other athletes doesn't always give you an accurate barometer. Bennett may have a some similarities from a few players in the 90s, but the game has changed, so its hard to accurately project how he'll do. Perhaps some here are right that Bennett will be the next coming of Hasheem Thabeet in terms of impact. Or maybe he'll be the next Grandmama. Its definitely hard to tell, which is why it probably doesn't make sense to be completely definitive about our favorites especially when compared to their competition.

Said another way, I may think its worth going long and trying for Bennett due to his upside, but I don't feel the need to bash Porter because of it. I'll be pretty thrilled with Porter.

[Dat2U]

we're arguably off track here in discussing Faried but I wonder if despite
the totally impressive stats Dat posted about Faried if he isn't an example
of the kind of player some here have long argued against having, that is a
player who can't be a starter on a championship team. He was a great value
for where he was taken but I'll ask again, can he really match up against
legit sized 4s? I'm not sure he can.

I don't think Faried is an Antawn Jamsion type of big where you can't really hide his defensive shortcomings. To me that's the key to whether or not you can really start for a contender. Faried probably could use some help on the front line though.

I think it's a legitimate question to ask of Kevin Love & David Lee however.

[Dat2U]

I know. You and I can have our debate as a light-hearted counterpoint to more strained exchanges.

Some of the exchanges have gotten strained here. The thing with top athletes though is past history of other athletes doesn't always give you an accurate barometer. Bennett may have a some similarities from a few players in the 90s, but the game has changed, so its hard to accurately project how he'll do. Perhaps some here are right that Bennett will be the next coming of Hasheem Thabeet in terms of impact. Or maybe he'll be the next Grandmama. Its definitely hard to tell, which is why it probably doesn't make sense to be completely definitive about our favorites especially when compared to their competition.

Said another way, I may think its worth going long and trying for Bennett due to his upside, but I don't feel the need to bash Porter because of it. I'll be pretty thrilled with Porter.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with making definitive statements. I notice the times I backtrack or give too much weight to someone elses opinion is ususally where I go wrong.

For example, last year I said from the very beginning that Austin Rivers was not draftable. I harped on it for months and months. I took another look later on in the process and came to the exact same conclusion, he didn't belong in the draft. I was taken to task more than a few times on the board for this opinion. There were some very compelling arguments made as the draft approached, specifically some made by DCZards which made me soften my stance abit. I still wasn't in love, but I started focusing on his positives and I concluded that yeah, maybe he is worth of a mid-1st round selection....

LOL.

Of course Austin ends up having the worst rookie season in recent NBA history in terms of how much he killed his team with his performance and outside of Thomas Robinson who's about to be traded for the 3rd time, he's clearly the biggest bust in the draft as a 10th pick.

If you feel definitively about someone, let it be known and don't change your opinion unless you take another look and feel that you made an error.

[verbal8]

Said another way, I may think its worth going long and trying for Bennett due to his upside, but I don't feel the need to bash Porter because of it. I'll be pretty thrilled with Porter.

I think a big reason I prefer Porter is that we already have John Wall. Hopefully Wall is the type of player you can build a contender around, and Beal and Porter can lead the supporting cast. If Wall isn't that caliber of player, I think any championship chances are doomed no matter who is picked in this draft.

After Noel, Bennett and Oladipo seem like the highest "upside" guys, if it was necessary to build a team around the pick from this year. Len might also belong in that conversation.

[dobrojim]

we're arguably off track here in discussing Faried but I wonder if despite
the totally impressive stats Dat posted about Faried if he isn't an example
of the kind of player some here have long argued against having, that is a
player who can't be a starter on a championship team. He was a great value
for where he was taken but I'll ask again, can he really match up against
legit sized 4s? I'm not sure he can.

I don't think Faried is an Antawn Jamsion type of big where you can't really hide his defensive shortcomings. To me that's the key to whether or not you can really start for a contender. Faried probably could use some help on the front line though.

I think it's a legitimate question to ask of Kevin Love & David Lee however.

definitely a legit question

in each of their cases though, they bring a lot of offense, much more than KF by contrast.

[tontoz]

How many lightweight 4s with no perimeter skills are successful in the NBA? Funny how history seems to only come into play when it is convenient.

Your ability to make points without making offering any real insight is really a developed skill you have.

How did we even get on lightweight 4s anyways? What lightweight 4 were we looking to draft with the 3rd pick??

Does Joakim Noah count? I know he's a C but he was only 225 LOL.

Chris Bosh was 225.

Tobias Harris 223.

Apparently Marcus Camby was 223 when he was the #2 pick.

Anthony Davis was only 222. Why in the world was he a #1 pick being so skinny?

Larry Sanders was only 222 as well at C. Kevin Garnett came in at 217.

Yeah, but your right... Faried was anomly i guess.

Funny that out of all the guys you list not one fits the description of a lightweight 4 with no perimeter skills. I understand. It is easier to make something up and argue against that.

A center who can't shoot isn't as much of a spacing problem as a 4 who can't shoot. Denver's spacing is as bad as ours and Faried is a big reason why.

Time and again you have looked at history to downplay Bennetts prospects. But when looking of 4s that fit Faried's description the cubbard is extremetly bare.

[Dark Faze]

Ho hum, yet another "Bennett will be the best player from this draft" assessment:
http://dimemag.com/2013/06/nba-gms-need-to-be-drafting-anthony-bennett-hes-the-next-larry-johnson/

So basically the article gives us reasons to think Bennett won't be LJ lol

look below

However, conference play revealed a completely different side of Bennett. By that point the focal point of many scouting reports, the 6-7, 240-pound Canadian found it a lot harder to be as dominant as he was at the beginning of the season. In 19 conference games, Bennett was held under double-digits seven times, even scoring zero points against Wyoming (left after four minutes with an injured shoulder) and one point against Nevada in 17 minutes of action.

As a freshman at UNLV, he (larry johnson) averaged 20.6 points and 11.4 boards a game, shooting 62 percent from the field and 34 percent from beyond the arc. In short, he could do just about everything. At only 6-6/6-7, Johnson wasn’t the tallest of forwards, but what he lacked in size he made up for with will, strength and athleticism. No one voluntarily stood in front of LJ when he came thundering down the lane and no one could keep him off the boards if he went to get a rebound. Johnson’s talent landed him a First Team All-American spot, as well as a national title for the Runnin’ Rebs

No where near the stats LJ put up as a freshmen and was terrible in his own conference (which is already a terribad conference).

um...

[Kanyewest]

So who's the last highly drafted tweener that was a success?

Any recent top 10 picks?

Kawhi Leonard was considered a tweener, he could have been selected in the top 10.

[tontoz]

Ho hum, yet another "Bennett will be the best player from this draft" assessment:
http://dimemag.com/2013/06/nba-gms-need-to-be-drafting-anthony-bennett-hes-the-next-larry-johnson/

So basically the article gives us reasons to think Bennett won't be LJ lol

look below

However, conference play revealed a completely different side of Bennett. By that point the focal point of many scouting reports, the 6-7, 240-pound Canadian found it a lot harder to be as dominant as he was at the beginning of the season. In 19 conference games, Bennett was held under double-digits seven times, even scoring zero points against Wyoming (left after four minutes with an injured shoulder) and one point against Nevada in 17 minutes of action.

As a freshman at UNLV, he (larry johnson) averaged 20.6 points and 11.4 boards a game, shooting 62 percent from the field and 34 percent from beyond the arc. In short, he could do just about everything. At only 6-6/6-7, Johnson wasn’t the tallest of forwards, but what he lacked in size he made up for with will, strength and athleticism. No one voluntarily stood in front of LJ when he came thundering down the lane and no one could keep him off the boards if he went to get a rebound. Johnson’s talent landed him a First Team All-American spot, as well as a national title for the Runnin’ Rebs

No where near the stats LJ put up as a freshmen and was terrible in his own conference (which is already a terribad conference).

um...

LOL @ talking about LJ's "freshman" season. He was a transfer. He played his first 2 college seasons at a different school.

[Kanyewest]

Recently drafted guys in the lottery stuck b/w the 3 & 4 positions

Derrick Williams
Michael Beasley
Marcus Morris
Jan Vesely
Al-Farouq Aminu
Earl Clark
Jeff Green
Thaddeus Young
Julian Wright

The only guy on this list that wasn't a complete disappointment for the team that drafted him was Thaddeus Young.

Technically, the Celtics did draft Jeff Green

Actually if you re-did the draft, I still think Green is worthy of a top 10 pick. It's just that his current contract is kind of ridiculous.

[Dat2U]

Funny that out of all the guys you list not one fits the description of a lightweight 4 with no perimeter skills. I understand. It is easier to make something up and argue against that.

A center who can't shoot isn't as much of a spacing problem as a 4 who can't shoot. Denver's spacing is as bad as ours and Faried is a big reason why.

Time and again you have looked at history to downplay Bennetts prospects. But when looking of 4s that fit Faried's description the cubbard is extremetly bare.

I'm still trying to figure out what lightweight 4s with limited perimter skills have to do with the 6-7 250 lb Anthony Bennett??? I mean, wasn't that the topic?

Seriously, how did we jump on this? Oh yeah, I know how. Whenever you can't debate the topic at hand (Bennett... i.e. whether someone is undersized or not), you convienently switch the subject to something you can debate, because Lord knows you'll debate a deaf man till he can hear.

[sfam]

Ho hum, yet another "Bennett will be the best player from this draft" assessment:
http://dimemag.com/2013/06/nba-gms-need-to-be-drafting-anthony-bennett-hes-the-next-larry-johnson/

So basically the article gives us reasons to think Bennett won't be LJ lol

look below

However, conference play revealed a completely different side of Bennett. By that point the focal point of many scouting reports, the 6-7, 240-pound Canadian found it a lot harder to be as dominant as he was at the beginning of the season. In 19 conference games, Bennett was held under double-digits seven times, even scoring zero points against Wyoming (left after four minutes with an injured shoulder) and one point against Nevada in 17 minutes of action.

As a freshman at UNLV, he (larry johnson) averaged 20.6 points and 11.4 boards a game, shooting 62 percent from the field and 34 percent from beyond the arc. In short, he could do just about everything. At only 6-6/6-7, Johnson wasn’t the tallest of forwards, but what he lacked in size he made up for with will, strength and athleticism. No one voluntarily stood in front of LJ when he came thundering down the lane and no one could keep him off the boards if he went to get a rebound. Johnson’s talent landed him a First Team All-American spot, as well as a national title for the Runnin’ Rebs

No where near the stats LJ put up as a freshmen and was terrible in his own conference (which is already a terribad conference).

um...

That's gotta be a skill, to extract just the part that makes the guy look bad. I think the article goes on to explain in detail why the comparison works, but I think others can access it as well as I.

[Dat2U]

So who's the last highly drafted tweener that was a success?

Any recent top 10 picks?

Kawhi Leonard was considered a tweener, he could have been selected in the top 10.

Thank you! That's the type of answer I was looking for.

Leonard is an A+ low usage role player who developed a 3 pt shot after he left school to become the prototypical 3&D guy in today's NBA. Prior to the draft, I was wondering if Kawhi would have to switch to the 4 because of his lack of shooting in college.

[AFM]

That's not fair. Booker with a jumper? Bennett has a great handle. Trying to remember the last time Bennett (assume you mean Booker) took a guy off the dribble.

But do we want/need a dribbling power forward? That's why I'm having trouble getting all that excited about the Bennett coast-to-coast videos since that's not what we'd be bringing him in to do. And that goes back to Dat's point IMO - is Bennett the kind of guy that says "my team doesn't need me to be a ball handler, so I'm going to focus on other things (like defense)" or is he going to be like Blatche and say "hey, I can go behind my back so that's what I'm going to do every time no matter what"?

We definitely need a good ISO player. Who else can ISO on this team? John, but he's more of a distributor.

[sfam]

I know. You and I can have our debate as a light-hearted counterpoint to more strained exchanges.

Some of the exchanges have gotten strained here. The thing with top athletes though is past history of other athletes doesn't always give you an accurate barometer. Bennett may have a some similarities from a few players in the 90s, but the game has changed, so its hard to accurately project how he'll do. Perhaps some here are right that Bennett will be the next coming of Hasheem Thabeet in terms of impact. Or maybe he'll be the next Grandmama. Its definitely hard to tell, which is why it probably doesn't make sense to be completely definitive about our favorites especially when compared to their competition.

Said another way, I may think its worth going long and trying for Bennett due to his upside, but I don't feel the need to bash Porter because of it. I'll be pretty thrilled with Porter.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with making definitive statements. I notice the times I backtrack or give too much weight to someone elses opinion is ususally where I go wrong.

For example, last year I said from the very beginning that Austin Rivers was not draftable. I harped on it for months and months. I took another look later on in the process and came to the exact same conclusion, he didn't belong in the draft. I was taken to task more than a few times on the board for this opinion. There were some very compelling arguments made as the draft approached, specifically some made by DCZards which made me soften my stance abit. I still wasn't in love, but I started focusing on his positives and I concluded that yeah, maybe he is worth of a mid-1st round selection....

LOL.

Of course Austin ends up having the worst rookie season in recent NBA history in terms of how much he killed his team with his performance and outside of Thomas Robinson who's about to be traded for the 3rd time, he's clearly the biggest bust in the draft as a 10th pick.

If you feel definitively about someone, let it be known and don't change your opinion unless you take another look and feel that you made an error.

Definitive statements about potential draft picks works fine if you want to live by the creed, "Often wrong, but never in doubt!" Some enjoy that approach, and to each their own. I just tend to notice people remembering their good picks a lot more than they do their less than stellar ones.

[tontoz]

Funny that out of all the guys you list not one fits the description of a lightweight 4 with no perimeter skills. I understand. It is easier to make something up and argue against that.

A center who can't shoot isn't as much of a spacing problem as a 4 who can't shoot. Denver's spacing is as bad as ours and Faried is a big reason why.

Time and again you have looked at history to downplay Bennetts prospects. But when looking of 4s that fit Faried's description the cubbard is extremetly bare.

I'm still trying to figure out what lightweight 4s with limited perimter skills have to do with the 6-7 250 lb Anthony Bennett??? I mean, wasn't that the topic?

Seriously, how did we jump on this? Oh yeah, I know how. Whenever you can't debate the topic at hand (Bennett... i.e. whether someone is undersized or not), you convienently switch the subject to something you can debate, because Lord knows you'll debate a deaf man till he can hear.

I am not the one who brought up Faried. You were arguing with Mizrookie about him and tried to revise history about the predraft concerns about Faried. When i pointed out that Faried was a lightweight you completely dismissed it.


And what exactly can i not debate on? I have already said that i would prefer to draft Porter, that i think concerns about Bennett's standing reach are legit. I am higher on him than you are but it isn't like i am dismissing the concern about his lack of length.

When have you ever known me to shy away from a debate?

[jivelikenice]

To interrupt the Dat v. Tontoz debate.....

Len SUCKS!

[rockymac52]

This isn't breaking news or anything, it's actually 3 years old, but I just thought of it for some reason, and felt like I'd share.

VIDEO: Phil Pressey absolutely posterizing Tony Mitchell (the one in this draft class who was supposed to be Phil's teammate at Mizzou.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj5UmH5TdfI


1. Always fun to see somebody get posterized
2. Proof the little man can get up there
3. Never a good sign for an future NBA big man getting dunked on

[GhostsOfGil]

That's not fair. Booker with a jumper? Bennett has a great handle. Trying to remember the last time Bennett (assume you mean Booker) took a guy off the dribble.

But do we want/need a dribbling power forward? That's why I'm having trouble getting all that excited about the Bennett coast-to-coast videos since that's not what we'd be bringing him in to do. And that goes back to Dat's point IMO - is Bennett the kind of guy that says "my team doesn't need me to be a ball handler, so I'm going to focus on other things (like defense)" or is he going to be like Blatche and say "hey, I can go behind my back so that's what I'm going to do every time no matter what"?

We definitely need a good ISO player. Who else can ISO on this team? John, but he's more of a distributor.

I think we need a player who can ISO, but not an ISO heavy player if that makes sense. The last thing we need is another JC but having a guy who can create when a play breaks down would indeed be valuable.

[montestewart]

So who's the last highly drafted tweener that was a success?

Any recent top 10 picks?

Kawhi Leonard was considered a tweener, he could have been selected in the top 10.

I don't follow college ball very closely, but I thought of him as a SF all the way, in college and projected as same in the pros. He might have slipped over to PF occasionally (Caron Butler did the same a few times on the Wizards), but the team had 4-5 taller/beefier players getting most of the PF/C minutes.