LA Times: Lebron James on verge of eclipsing kobe

[GeneralNash]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow ... 1424.story

Do not shoot the messenger. Please no rings argument either because then that would mean horry is the GOAT and derek fisher is better than Shaq.

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[semi-sentient]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-lebron-james-on-verge-of-kobe-bryants-greatness-20130605,0,3571424.story

Do not shoot the messenger. Please no rings argument either because then that would mean horry is the GOAT and derek fisher is better than Shaq.

If you can't distinguish between a role player and a superstar that has the burden of carrying the team then you shouldn't even be posting. I'm surprised you went with Horry despite that corny argument seeing as how Russell has 11 titles.

That said, LeBron is on Kobe's heels for sure. I'm not sure where I would rank him with another championship, but he'd be in the same grouping as Hakeem and Kobe. He's have to win more than just two to catch up to and surpass guys like Shaq, Bird, and Duncan though.

[TyCobb]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-lebron-james-on-verge-of-kobe-bryants-greatness-20130605,0,3571424.story

Do not shoot the messenger. Please no rings argument either because then that would mean horry is the GOAT and derek fisher is better than Shaq.

Sent from my iphone using tapatalk 2

[makaveli_99]

I think the series is critical for cementing Lebron's legacy - he is already one of the greatest talents of all time, there's been no one with his size/speed combination - the only thing missing is the success (i.e. titles). It's the same reason Oscar Robertson is not ranked higher - lack of multiple titles. Oscar was a stat machine - we will never ever see anyone avg a triple double, but had he won multiple titles he surely would be in the top 5 all time, but he isn't. Same thing happened with Karl Malone - he was great, but could not win or he'd have an argument for greatest pf...that's duncans b/c of the success

back to the point at hand, people make the case that kobe had shaq, so they try to discredit the titles, but then use his career avg stats, ignoring the fact that they would have been higher had he been option A the entire time and also that he played fewer than 20 minutes the first 2 seasons but then he wouldn't have 5 rings.

Regardless, its a big series for Lebron, he needs to win this - otherwise he will fall to 1/4 in the finals. Its still early in his career so his story is unwritten, we'll see how things unfold.

[Kilroy]

Lebron is definitely a better player than Kobe is right now and has been for a couple years... But greatness is about legacies and I'm not sure how you could put Lebron in the same category as Kobe in that regard.

The difference between the MJ/Magic/Kobe/Kareem tier and where Lebron is for me, not about rings, but more about their ability on any given night to completely dominate a game when their team needed them.
Lebron is doing that more now, but as far as comparing legacies, I just don't see Lebron on the same level as those other guys.
Maybe it's swag... MJ and to a slightly lesser extent, Kobe, could turn it up in a game to a level that made opposing teams just watch in awe... And they'd tell you they were going to do it first...
I just don't get that from Lebron... He can dominate, but he doesn't have that swag that says "I'm going to crush you, starting now" and then just does it.
Magic could take over a game in other ways and in multiple positions. Kareem could just become unstoppable at times... Hell, for a hand-full of seasons, so could Shaq.

Lebron, as great and talented as he is, is just missing some key ingredient for me. But this season, I think he's finding it... You're starting to forget he has Wade and Bosh on that team.

I think a huge number of fans today never experienced MJ, Magic or Kareem, few of them remember Hakeem, and a lot of them probably barely remember Kobe's 81... So I think it's easier for them to put Lebron on that level... I have a hard time with it though. Championships aren't everything... But dude has 1... Let's talk after a few more... Especially if they are in a row.

[Beethoven]

Who cares really. Kobe is and always will be the greatest of all time for me whether someone else in future surpasses others or not.

[hermes]

horry is the GOAT and derek fisher is better than Shaq.

you heard it here first!

[Kobean]

I hate seeing people use the stats as a way of saying Lebron is better especially when they point at rebounds, Lebron is the biggest guy on his team! (not to mention he's a forward and Kobe's a guard) Kobe averaged 5.3 a game in his career where he has been playing with people like Shaq, Pau and now Howard, I'm sure if Kobe was in Miami instead of lebron he could have averaged 7 a game too. less assists I see as a combination of Lebron has better team mates and Kobe is obviously more of a scorer. I think people should wait until at least near the end of both of their careers before deciding where they rank all time, I can't see Lebron going his entire career without a serious injury, nobody can be that big, move that fast and jump that high forever and once he loses his athleticism I think he's pretty screwed but that's just my opinion.....

[IamBBAnalysis]

I hate seeing people use the stats as a way of saying Lebron is better especially when they point at rebounds, Lebron is the biggest guy on his team! (not to mention he's a forward and Kobe's a guard) Kobe averaged 5.3 a game in his career where he has been playing with people like Shaq, Pau and now Howard, I'm sure if Kobe was in Miami instead of lebron he could have averaged 7 a game too. less assists I see as a combination of Lebron has better team mates and Kobe is obviously more of a scorer. I think people should wait until at least near the end of both of their careers before deciding where they rank all time, I can't see Lebron going his entire career without a serious injury, nobody can be that big, move that fast and jump that high forever and once he loses his athleticism I think he's pretty screwed but that's just my opinion.....

Wow, somebody who gets it. I completely agree in regards to assists/rebounds. He gets those stats because he plays pg for his team and pf on defense.

I've been amazed on sometimes with lebron...I was amazed consistently with Jordan. Lebron is very versatile though.

[dockingsched]

i don't understand the argument that his numbers should be taken with a grain of salt because of the role he plays on his team. you'd think he'd get credit for being able to play all these roles for his team, not hurt by it.


anyway, the whole lebron / kobe all time ranking thing isn't a topic i find much interest in. Barring some crazy injury, its inevitable that lebron surpass kobe and work his way up to the GOAT argument. he's just too good.

[ballaholick]

Kobe didn't leave his home town like a coward, and then join other all stars just sayin.....

[LAKESHOW]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-lebron-james-on-verge-of-kobe-bryants-greatness-20130605,0,3571424.story

Do not shoot the messenger. Please no rings argument either because then that would mean horry is the GOAT and derek fisher is better than Shaq.

Sent from my iphone using tapatalk 2

Sorry son, its all about championships! This is LAKER country. Our measuring tools around here are at a higher level. Each and every team at the beginning of the season has 1 goal. Don't make arguments by setting the bar and standards lower.

[Dr Aki]

lebron's a more talented player definitely, but will he out-achieve kobe?

kobe won 5 times from 7 trips to the finals, lebron is 1 from 3.

lebron loses this one, and its a mountain to climb to get above hakeem/shaq/duncan/kobe/bird

[Wavy Q]

LeBron is a better player than Kobe has ever been.

[makaveli_99]

i don't understand the argument that his numbers should be taken with a grain of salt because of the role he plays on his team. you'd think he'd get credit for being able to play all these roles for his team, not hurt by it.


anyway, the whole lebron / kobe all time ranking thing isn't a topic i find much interest in. Barring some crazy injury, its inevitable that lebron surpass kobe and work his way up to the GOAT argument. he's just too good.

he actually has 0 chance to be the GOAT... already lost twice in the finals, and in 2011 was one of the biggest choke jobs ever, not only losing, but being the reason they lost, avging a measly 17pts per game. Jordan's post season stats blow lebrons out of the water...after 2011 his GOAT status was done for good. That being said, if lebron wins titles, he can definitely move up the ranks, he still has a lot of time left, so we will see how it unfolds.

[semi-sentient]

^^^ Have to agree with that. I felt the same way about Kobe after the 2004 debacle. When you're trying to become the greatest you have to have a near flawless career, and LeBron has had his share of blemishes up to this point. Jordan never failed as miserably as LeBron (or Kobe) at his peak, and that's a fact jack.

[Gek]

As basketball players, yes, lebron is a freak. As legacy goes? See most of the posts above.

[kblo247]

Miss me on this. People need to remember just what the hell Kobe did the west in that 3 peat

[kblo247]

^^^ Have to agree with that. I felt the same way about Kobe after the 2004 debacle. When you're trying to become the greatest you have to have a near flawless career, and LeBron has had his share of blemishes up to this point. Jordan never failed as miserably as LeBron (or Kobe) at his peak, and that's a fact jack.

MJ had his fair share or goofs. He went 6/6 in the finals, he saving grace.

That said he never once in his career finished even 500 w/o Pippen on the roster, and likewise MJ shot poorly in e finals versus Seattle and in the closeouts vs Utah. Its selective memory that goes without social media dictating his career, synergy picking it apart, or being in a zone league

[semi-sentient]

I would say that there is more to it than just rings, individual awards, and stats. The competition, at least for me, factors in when comparing the best of the best (I've thought about this a big recently in evaluating Magic and Bird).

Jordan faced a lot of really good, strong defensive teams en route to his titles. I don't think he ever once had a run where he went against competition as weak as what LeBron has gone through in consecutive seasons. Neither has Kobe for that matter (or Shaq, who year after year went through tough front courts).

So not only do you have the number of championships, but the impressive nature of each title run. I don't think there's any question that Kobe's 2 titles as "the man" are more impressive than LeBron's all things considered (and not including the regular season, although LeBron has an edge here). How much that matters is the real question. Not much separates these two as offensive players outside of role, and I think Kobe and LeBron were fairly equal as defensive players at their best. LeBron is slightly more versatile in that he can guard bigger post players, but I think Kobe did a better job of disrupting offenses by his hounding/trapping of the opposing teams playmakers, cutting off passing lanes, and generally being more effective against quicker players.

Kobe's 3 championships with Shaq deserve a considerable amount of thought. For all the flak the Kobe gets about being selfish he managed to make it work for 3 consecutive years in the playoffs with one of the most dominant big men ever. Kobe was instrumental in those runs, and I don't think you could replace him easily and expect similar results. He's had some huge, crucial performances that other great wings haven't really matched, and he downright dominated the Lakers toughest opponents (Spurs and Kings in particular -- the real Finals) during that 3-peat. How much credit he gets is always a tough question to answer, but I think he deserves a considerable amount, especially for his 2001 run where you could flip a coin between he and Shaq.

So I guess thinking about it deeper, LeBron might have to get another championship (3 total) before I can elevate him above Kobe, and he has a great chance given how good he is and the team he's on.