Tidbits from draft chat

[Piston Pete]

I do appreciate everyone picking apart every aspect of these kids...

but every option at #8 has weaknesses!

It seems the debate is Bazz vs MCW and all other options have disappeared.

Are we picking between these 2? Or does Joe have some other option in mind?

If you beleive Ford, it sounds like Noel, Mclemore, Porter, Bennett, Oladipo, Burke, Carter-Williams, Len, and McCollum are all on the same tier.I think we will be picking one of those guys on draft night.

And Saric too.


Per Ford;

"There are a handful of teams that believe Saric is a top five talent in the draft. I believe the Pelicans are one of them. So, yes, if the guys they have ranked ahead of him are all gone, I do think they'd take him at 6. However, they could probably trade down to a pick like 9 or 10, pick up an asset and still get him. The scouts that REALLY know Europe say that there's not a huge difference between Saric and Otto Porter."

[Phenomenonsense]

MCW's vision is not a proven commodity. He is not the pure poimt Rubio is. Boheim does not cater to a natural playmaker, he creates them. MCW has the size and the athleticsm but there are many question marks overlooked on this board.

1. Defensively we have no idea what he will be. He was very rarely ever put in an isolation position.

2. He struggled as a playmaker when he faced great teams. Is his play making attributed to the offense or is he a natural pg. No one knows that answer yet and its a huge risk.

Point number 2 isn't really all that accurate. Against the "great teams", more often than not you got two types of performances from him.

1. He beat his man off the dribble at will and looked to score (for better or worse).

?????????? let me see some video evidence of this. MCW can not beat his man off the dribble. He may get by because of his length but it has nothing to do with his handle

2. He looked to pass more (this occurred more when they got Southerland back and things seemingly clicked for him as far as being a floor general rather than just a good point guard goes) but his teammates shot the ball unbelievably bad.

In NBA he's going to have to look to pass 90% of the time since he has a weak shot, and is not a great slasher.

This is not guilty until proven innocent. YOU want to make that assertion, you go find the evidence.

[DBC10]

I do appreciate everyone picking apart every aspect of these kids...

but every option at #8 has weaknesses!

It seems the debate is Bazz vs MCW and all other options have disappeared.

Are we picking between these 2? Or does Joe have some other option in mind?

If you beleive Ford, it sounds like Noel, Mclemore, Porter, Bennett, Oladipo, Burke, Carter-Williams, Len, and McCollum are all on the same tier.I think we will be picking one of those guys on draft night.

And Saric too.


Per Ford;

"There are a handful of teams that believe Saric is a top five talent in the draft. I believe the Pelicans are one of them. So, yes, if the guys they have ranked ahead of him are all gone, I do think they'd take him at 6. However, they could probably trade down to a pick like 9 or 10, pick up an asset and still get him. The scouts that REALLY know Europe say that there's not a huge difference between Saric and Otto Porter."

To be fair, Ford really, really loves Saric though.

And there's a lot to love about Saric. So who knows.

[Cowology]

I do appreciate everyone picking apart every aspect of these kids...

but every option at #8 has weaknesses!

It seems the debate is Bazz vs MCW and all other options have disappeared.

Are we picking between these 2? Or does Joe have some other option in mind?

IF one of the top 5 or 6 prospects fall to us I would not be surprised if we scooped them up regardless of position. Joe is an opportunist, and the draft is more about acquiring talent/assets than fit.

But I still think Bazz is the likely choice. Dumars seems more inclined to pick the guy who's stock is falling than the one who's rising. He's always liked guys with chips on their shoulders and something to prove. His history in this regard is pretty well documented and doesn't require me recapping.

The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Definitely not a certainty, but the pattern is there.

[Blkbrd671]

This is not guilty until proven innocent. YOU want to make that assertion, you go find the evidence.

That's what i'm saying, i have yet to see MCW beat his off the dribble. Or let me rephrase, beat his man due to dribbling. No crossovers, no behind the back, no spin. In college and HS you can get away with that. The next level he can't just count on his length to get by opponents.

[HotelVitale]

?????????? let me see some video evidence of this. MCW can not beat his man off the dribble. He may get by because of his length but it has nothing to do with his handle

This comment has no basis in reality. Start at the 7:15 mark and see his listed strengths. He can get to the hoop anytime he wants due to a combination of speed, ballhandling ability and length

This is exactly what i'm talking about, i'm not trying to ride you but your post are so full it regarding this kid. First i started off at the 7:15 mark, and all i saw was, hesitation, then drive towards the ball hand. THATS IT, no cross over, spin or anything. Do you one better, i went to his HS mix tape and when he did crossover it was really high barely faked anyone out. Only reason he's survived this long is due to his extraordinary length. Also Majority of his layups where uncontested, which at the next level is not going to happen.

Thumbs up, blkbrd. I don't see any in-game evidence of MCW being able to take it to the rack, and no evidence of him being able to finish in traffic. When he got to the cup, it was almost always because of a defensive lapse or in transition, when the D left him an open lane. He deserves credit for that and seems to use his length to exploit mistakes well, but it's just bad or dishonest scouting to say he's a great penetrator.

Also, for what it's worth, in the final four game MCW had 2 pts and 2 assists, 2 steals/blocks and FIVE turnovers. He wasn't playing well and didn't find a way to help his team and greatly hurt them. Burke couldn't find his groove either, but still scored 7pts, 4 assists, 4 st/bl and ONE turnover. Burke missed shots but still helped UM, MCW just hurt Cuse.

[HotelVitale]

But I still think Bazz is the likely choice. Dumars seems more inclined to pick the guy who's stock is falling than the one who's rising. He's always liked guys with chips on their shoulders and something to prove. His history in this regard is pretty well documented and doesn't require me recapping.

You're right about this quirk of Joe's character--it's what he did with Chauncey and Ben and Sheed--but I wanted to point out that his recent history in the draft has a different, simpler explanation. See, Bazz's stock is very different from Monroe's, Knight's, and Drummond's, because those three guys's stock only 'slipped' on draft day, and most of the league was shocked that we lucked into them. Bazz's stock has slipped well before the draft, and I think the consensus by draft day will be that he goes in the teens.

The other three guys slipped because of stupid GMs or weird biases. No one liked Udoh over Monroe except GSW, and no one liked Ross over Dummond except TO. But if Joe D takes Bazz, he's going to have to go against the consensus and pick a guy at #8 that an overall survey of GMs would put lower. I'm not saying he'd be scared to do this, just that it's a quite different scenario from the last three drafts and might not suggest a draft pattern.

[theBigLip]

I do appreciate everyone picking apart every aspect of these kids...

but every option at #8 has weaknesses!

It seems the debate is Bazz vs MCW and all other options have disappeared.

Are we picking between these 2? Or does Joe have some other option in mind?

honestly both could be gone by the time we pick. Only reason these 2 are being discussed is because C. Ford predicted we'd be looking that these 2 and KL also indicated MCW could be in the mix. I believe he also mentions if we did it would be taking a step back.

lol - Bazz will be available to us.

[theBigLip]

First 6:
Noel
McLemore
Porter
Oladipo
Bennett
Len

Next 10:
Burke
McCollum
Zeller
Carter-Williams
Adams
Caldwell Pope
Muhammad
Olynyk
Schroeder
Saric

Someone in the first 6 could certainly drop to us. Burke, Zeller, McCollum, MCW could all pop up there, pushing someone down to us. Joe will certainly be opportunistic. I have the feeling Sacramento will take a PG - either Burke or MCW (feel sorry for whoever gets picked by them). Still wonder if there is a way to sneak up and get McLemore.

[Blkbrd671]

I do appreciate everyone picking apart every aspect of these kids...

but every option at #8 has weaknesses!

It seems the debate is Bazz vs MCW and all other options have disappeared.

Are we picking between these 2? Or does Joe have some other option in mind?

honestly both could be gone by the time we pick. Only reason these 2 are being discussed is because C. Ford predicted we'd be looking that these 2 and KL also indicated MCW could be in the mix. I believe he also mentions if we did it would be taking a step back.

lol - Bazz will be available to us.

Honestly in this draft you never know.

[HotelVitale]

In NBA.com's compilation of mock drafts, the top seven are overwhelmingly as follows:
Noel
McLemore
Porter
Dipo
Burke
Bennett
Len

It gets crazy from there, but two-thirds of those mocks basically agree on that top-7. I think we take one of those if they fall to use, but most likely scenario is we're choosing from the next tier (Zeller, McCollum, MCW, Bazz...but not KCP, he's not in many top-10s). The mocks aren't sure who we like: 4 have us taking McCollum, 2 have MCW, 2 have Bazz. 2 others have us taking Bennett if he falls and another Burke if he falls.

[Pharaoh]

In NBA.com's compilation of mock drafts, the top seven are overwhelmingly as follows:
Noel
McLemore
Porter
Dipo
Burke
Bennett
Len

It gets crazy from there, but two-thirds of those mocks basically agree on that top-7. I think we take one of those if they fall to use, but most likely scenario is we're choosing from the next tier (Zeller, McCollum, MCW, Bazz...but not KCP, he's not in many top-10s). The mocks aren't sure who we like: 4 have us taking McCollum, 2 have MCW, 2 have Bazz. 2 others have us taking Bennett if he falls and another Burke if he falls.

Who would you pick at #8 HV?

I believe you're the advanced stat man... do they give you any indication about who we should pick? Do they support your choice.. or make you think twice?

[Piston Pete]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but advanced stat-wise, KCP would be next after those guys.

[HotelVitale]

Depends on how you read/use the advanced stats. I like to use them as a corrective and guide. McCollum is the clear advanced stat winner, but he played against such inferior comp that you have to be careful and look closely at what you think he will and won't be able to do against good comp. Shabazz is the clear advanced stat loser, and I think that was enough to make me take seriously the doubts I already had about him.

I'll think about it some more, do some research, and give you a better answer later. It's midnight where I live and my brain's getting mushy.

[Cowology]

But I still think Bazz is the likely choice. Dumars seems more inclined to pick the guy who's stock is falling than the one who's rising. He's always liked guys with chips on their shoulders and something to prove. His history in this regard is pretty well documented and doesn't require me recapping.

You're right about this quirk of Joe's character--it's what he did with Chauncey and Ben and Sheed--but I wanted to point out that his recent history in the draft has a different, simpler explanation. See, Bazz's stock is very different from Monroe's, Knight's, and Drummond's, because those three guys's stock only 'slipped' on draft day, and most of the league was shocked that we lucked into them. Bazz's stock has slipped well before the draft, and I think the consensus by draft day will be that he goes in the teens.

The other three guys slipped because of stupid GMs or weird biases. No one liked Udoh over Monroe except GSW, and no one liked Ross over Dummond except TO. But if Joe D takes Bazz, he's going to have to go against the consensus and pick a guy at #8 that an overall survey of GMs would put lower. I'm not saying he'd be scared to do this, just that it's a quite different scenario from the last three drafts and might not suggest a draft pattern.

A fair observation. Guess time will tell.