MCW at #8

[theBigLip]

So after every article I read, I totally change my mind on the draft. My therapist gets double-pay during these weeks So my latest whim...

I read today that multiple teams, the ones that do the heavy analytics, have MCW at #1 or #2 on their boards. Wow. So he can't shoot now, but that is usually fixable, and the guy can get to the rim anyway. So....

If he drops to us, maybe we should take him. Maybe pull off a Knight to Dallas trade for their #13 and get KCP. All rookie backcourt, but two more pieces to the core. I'd give us an "A" if we end up with them both. Besides, think of all the keystrokes we will save by referring to MCW and KCP

[need4detroit]

I agree, If MCW is there at 8, you take him. Getting an extra first rounder (Dallas) would be Ideal. A KCP/ MCW backcourt would be big, athletic, and would defend. MCW would get the best out of Moose and Dre while KCP would stretch the floor.

[Brapman]

So after every article I read, I totally change my mind on the draft. My therapist gets double-pay during these weeks So my latest whim...

I read today that multiple teams, the ones that do the heavy analytics, have MCW at #1 or #2 on their boards. Wow. So he can't shoot now, but that is usually fixable, and the guy can get to the rim anyway. So....

If he drops to us, maybe we should take him. Maybe pull off a Knight to Dallas trade for their #13 and get KCP. All rookie backcourt, but two more pieces to the core. I'd give us an "A" if we end up with them both. Besides, think of all the keystrokes we will save by referring to MCW and KCP

Where did you read that multiple teams have him that high BigLip?

It seems to me that there's a lot of speculation out there, and that most all the teams haven't established their official draft boards yet.

It also seems to me that the only player in the draft who won't slide down to us (for sure) is Oladipo. Too many GM's supposedly like him the most in the draft for that to happen. However, after that, it's a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" and try to fit slightly round pegs into slightly square holes draft. It's impossible to find a complete and ready fit.

[theBigLip]

So after every article I read, I totally change my mind on the draft. My therapist gets double-pay during these weeks So my latest whim...

I read today that multiple teams, the ones that do the heavy analytics, have MCW at #1 or #2 on their boards. Wow. So he can't shoot now, but that is usually fixable, and the guy can get to the rim anyway. So....

If he drops to us, maybe we should take him. Maybe pull off a Knight to Dallas trade for their #13 and get KCP. All rookie backcourt, but two more pieces to the core. I'd give us an "A" if we end up with them both. Besides, think of all the keystrokes we will save by referring to MCW and KCP

Where did you read that multiple teams have him that high BigLip?

It seems to me that there's a lot of speculation out there, and that most all the teams haven't established their official draft boards yet.

It also seems to me that the only player in the draft who won't slide down to us (for sure) is Oladipo. Too many GM's supposedly like him the most in the draft for that to happen. However, after that, it's a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" and try to fit slightly round pegs into slightly square holes draft. It's impossible to find a complete and ready fit.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/9352435/2013-nba-draft-examining-nerlens-noel-health-plus-more-draft-buzz

Insider, so if you don't have it, link isn't going to work.

Bit some snippets from the draft blog:
Sources say a number of teams that rely heavily on analytics have Carter-Williams rated higher than Burke. While both players look good in the various analytical approaches teams employ, Carter-Williams is coming up at No. 1 and No. 2 overall on several teams' reports. For teams that value analytics, that's a big deal.

Second, the more old-school scouts and GMs are looking at Carter-Williams' performance against Indiana. Carter-Williams sliced through the Hoosiers' defense -- anchored by Victor Oladipo -- as if it were warm butter. Carter-Williams' ability to get to the basket and finish (31 percent of his shots were at the rim, and he shot 62 percent from the field) is impressive.

Finally, teams are always looking for upside in the lottery. Carter-Williams has extraordinary size for his position. He is a terrific athlete. He sees the floor as well as any point guard in the draft. His weaknesses -- primarily his shaky jumper -- are the only thing holding him back from being a top-5 pick right now.

[ImHeisenberg]

I agree, If MCW is there at 8, you take him. Getting an extra first rounder (Dallas) would be Ideal. A KCP/ MCW backcourt would be big, athletic, and would defend. MCW would get the best out of Moose and Dre while KCP would stretch the floor.

It would be an interesting pairing. But, with a rookie backcourt, I could see MCW deferring to Moose quite a bit. Not a bad idea, but whatever.

I'd still prefer Shabazz over KCP. But, the theory still works.

[c-dot]

Wow, just wow the MCW love is mind boggling. We need a potential #1 scoring option to take the scoring load off Monroe so we replace Knight with a guy that will Avg around 10ppg on 35%fg? Does our FO think we are going to be good with Monroe as our best scorer? The only way this could kind of make sense is if we get another first rounder imo.

[theBigLip]

Wow, just wow the MCW love is mind boggling. We need a potential #1 scoring option to take the scoring load off Monroe so we replace Knight with a guy that will Avg around 10ppg on 35%fg? Does our FO think we are going to be good with Monroe as our best scorer? The only way this could kind of make sense is if we get another first rounder imo.

Agree, the MCW love is surprising. I don't think that makes him a top 3 pick, but top 6-8? probably.

And our problem isn't MCW at our point if we were to draft him, our problem is that we have a combo guard in Knight who hasn't proved he can play the point and can't shoot good enough to be our killer SG. If he could do one or the other that would solve a lot of our problems. Regardless, if MCW is the BPA when we draft at #8, we take him.

[PistonPride]

I think hes the third best player in the draft after Noel and Porter. I think he will be better than Burke at the next level but they will both be excellent point guards, I think Burke is the next best player and will also be a very good player.

[He Filled it Up]

I want no part of MCW. Hopefully the guys that actually get paid know something that I don't, but in the games I saw his handle was so loose that I'm pretty sure I could have taken the ball from him. His shooting is a real problem, but not as big as his handle IMO.

If he turns out to be an above average point guard I'll happily eat crow for my pre-draft opinions. I hope gets a chance, just not in Detroit.

[princeofpalace]

Wow, just wow the MCW love is mind boggling. We need a potential #1 scoring option to take the scoring load off Monroe so we replace Knight with a guy that will Avg around 10ppg on 35%fg? Does our FO think we are going to be good with Monroe as our best scorer? The only way this could kind of make sense is if we get another first rounder imo.

Agree, the MCW love is surprising. I don't think that makes him a top 3 pick, but top 6-8? probably.

And our problem isn't MCW at our point if we were to draft him, our problem is that we have a combo guard in Knight who hasn't proved he can play the point and can't shoot good enough to be our killer SG. If he could do one or the other that would solve a lot of our problems. Regardless, if MCW is the BPA when we draft at #8, we take him.

Im not surprised at all that teams are high on MCW. I think he could go as high as #2 to Orlando and I doubt he gets past us at #8.

His upside is tremendous due to his combination of size/length/athleticism and skill level and if you look into his history, he clearly isn't as bad a shooter/scorer as his sophomore year stats indicate and hes great at getting to rim (despite reports from posters on here to the contrary). Point guards like Carter-Williams don't come around very often. He certainly has his flaws but he is one of the few ppl in the draft with the potential to be an all star.

And, I agree- that Knight is the problem in our backcourt and he will continue to be a problem until he improves the level of his play

[Notanoob]

I don't like MCW either. His handles look pretty unimpressive, he's really weak, and that'll hurt him on both ends of the floor, especially if we have him guarding much beefier 2's. He has no shot, and he's been playing that zone defense that is utterly worthless for him in the NBA. He's a huge project and I have no confidence in him or our coaching staff to fix his problems.

[HotelVitale]

Finally, teams are always looking for upside in the lottery. Carter-Williams has extraordinary size for his position. He is a terrific athlete. He sees the floor as well as any point guard in the draft. His weaknesses -- primarily his shaky jumper -- are the only thing holding him back from being a top-5 pick right now.

After watching clips from his good games for the last half hour, I've come around on MCW some. His mistakes drive my crazy, and he can disappear for mammoth stretches of time, but he's tall and tries to read the defense a lot and he's good at driving before the defense is set. In that sense, he's more of a 'pure' point guard than many other prospects.

At the same time, I really want to underscore that he gets assists but his court vision isn't special. From what I can tell, 95% of his assists are to guys who are right next to him. He deserves credit for making these passes, but I want to make clear that this guy aint no Rondo or Rubio. He's a dude that looks for his teammates and tries to get defenses to collapse on him so he can dish it. Here's a short video (2 minutes) showing his assists in a good game he had this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCvU5ro1_hQ

Here's a longer video (8 minutes) showing one of his best all-around games this year. He shows good quickness here; if he always played like this, he'd be a top-5 pick for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy_JAHe7Qpo

[HotelVitale]

Also, he's not huge for a PG. He's 6'5, which would be probably two inches taller than the average NBA point guard, but he's also 183 lbs, which makes him lighter than the average NBA pg. And he has a 6'6 wingspan, which I would bet is about average for a NBA one. Don't get me wrong, the height is certainly an advantage, but I'm getting tired of hearing about his 'freakish' size or 'wildly rare' measurements by people that have fallen in love with him.

[ComboGuardCity]

Finally, teams are always looking for upside in the lottery. Carter-Williams has extraordinary size for his position. He is a terrific athlete. He sees the floor as well as any point guard in the draft. His weaknesses -- primarily his shaky jumper -- are the only thing holding him back from being a top-5 pick right now.

After watching clips from his good games for the last half hour, I've come around on MCW some. His mistakes drive my crazy, and he can disappear for mammoth stretches of time, but he's tall and tries to read the defense a lot and he's good at driving before the defense is set. In that sense, he's more of a 'pure' point guard than many other prospects.

At the same time, I really want to underscore that he gets assists but his court vision isn't special. From what I can tell, 95% of his assists are to guys who are right next to him. He deserves credit for making these passes, but I want to make clear that this guy aint no Rondo or Rubio. He's a dude that looks for his teammates and tries to get defenses to collapse on him so he can dish it. Here's a short video (2 minutes) showing his assists in a good game he had this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCvU5ro1_hQ

Here's a longer video (8 minutes) showing one of his best all-around games this year. He shows good quickness here; if he always played like this, he'd be a top-5 pick for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy_JAHe7Qpo

That 2nd video makes me want James Southerland more than MCW. Based on what I've seen MCW looks more like a game manager than a game changer. My biggest concern is his ability to get in the paint and finish. If he can't finish in college, how will he in the NBA? Add to that his lack of a jumper and he's a concerning prospect.

[joseph mamah]

im hoping MCW goes in the top 7, we don't really need any more soft guys on this team. Moose/Singler and Stuckey/CV (if they're back) fill our quota.

[princeofpalace]

Also, he's not huge for a PG. He's 6'5, which would be probably two inches taller than the average NBA point guard, but he's also 183 lbs, which makes him lighter than the average NBA pg. And he has a 6'6 wingspan, which I would bet is about average for a NBA one. Don't get me wrong, the height is certainly an advantage, but I'm getting tired of hearing about his 'freakish' size or 'wildly rare' measurements by people that have fallen in love with him.

He's 6'6 with a 6'7 wingspan, and yes those measurements are rare for a PG. Hes got the height and length of your average SG. As for his weight, he only has 4.0% body fat, he's obviously going to get bigger on a different diet/strength plan, his weight is a nonissue. MCW is bigger than every SG we had on roster for the past 2 seasons (BG, Stuckey, English).

There is no point in pretending that 3 inches isn't a huge difference in basketball. MCW will be bigger than almost every PG and also bigger than a lot of the SG's. That is a great advantage that allows him to see over the top of defenders to make plays.

[HotelVitale]

It's nice that MCW is tall, but let's keep the vision 20/20 here. He's a bit under 6'6 in shoes, which puts him on the taller end of PGs. He's about the same size as Grevis Vasquez, Jamal Crawford, Tony Wroten, Iman Shumpert, and Mardy Collins. In other words, tall-ish PG but not a freak.

His wingspan at 6'7 is actually fairly short for someone of his height, and it's just above average for a PG. His wingspan is in the same range as Stuckey, BK, Eric Bledsoe, Myck Kabongo and many others, and it's a lot shorter than guys like John Wall, George Hill, Shumpert, Tyreke Evans, and a host of others. It's a little shorter than guys like D Rose, Westbrook, and Lillard, who are in the 6'8 range.

So all in all, good height but let's keep his size in perspective. BTW, if you're measuring just weight, he'd be the smallest Piston player since Walker Russel played a couple games for us a few years ago.

[HotelVitale]

Also I didn't feel like arguing this and coming off as negative or overly anti-MCW, but there's no way his weight is a 'non-issue.' Ectomorphs don't become Chauncey Billups overnight when they feel like bulking up. Austin Daye has gained all of 8 pounds in 4 years, despite doing everything in his and the Pistons' power to put on muscle. Plus MCW has been working out for years and I'm sure there's a pretty good strength team at Syracuse. If you come into the league thin, you don't simply catch up with the already big-ass dudes who play in the NBA. They all have strength and diet plans too, you know.

[princeofpalace]

Here are some more FULL Syracuse games. Not quite sure how you can evaluate prospects based on short clips and highlight reels

Cuse v. Louisville- Big East Championship
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NybYwAZk5BQ[/youtube]

Cuse v. Providence
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uij0SEHlzIw[/youtube]

Cuse v. Cinci
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4J2OEDU0CY[/youtube]

[princeofpalace]

Also I didn't feel like arguing this and coming off as negative or overly anti-MCW, but there's no way his weight is a 'non-issue.' Ectomorphs don't become Chauncey Billups overnight when they feel like bulking up. Austin Daye has gained all of 8 pounds in 4 years, despite doing everything in his and the Pistons' power to put on muscle. Plus MCW has been working out for years and I'm sure there's a pretty good strength team at Syracuse. If you come into the league thin, you don't simply catch up with the already big-ass dudes who play in the NBA. They all have strength and diet plans too, you know.

Austin Daye was 215lbs last season, up from 192 at the draft combine. To claim that he didn't add weight, or only added a little weight was untrue. Dayes problem was that he needed to get to 235-240 and he couldn't do that. MCW should have little to no problem adding 15 lbs to his frame.