Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

[theboomking]

Has anyone seen whether we are bringing in Erik Murphy for a workout?

[Wizardspride]

By this am I to surmise Plumlee is great, nate? Or, is pointing at competition one of the same arguments used against Millsap and Faried coming out of college?

I mean Len faced hot garbage this season. He and Olynyk must both suck. Right?

FWIW I think Plumlee is being underrated and Olynyk/Len overrated. I'd take a bunch of bigs over Olynyk/Len. Namely Adams, Zeller ahead of both, and Dieng/Plumlee ahead of Olynyk.

Adams? Why?

I just don't get this love for him.

I don't know if you watched him play much this season but he's beyond raw.

It's funny that Adams wasn't on the radar for many here until his exceptional combine....and now he's this sought after player.

I Just don't get it....

[Ruzious]

I watched Olynyk play quite a bit, and he is not slow. He is a lot quicker and more agile that most think he is. He is sneaky quick and he moves well with or with out the ball in his hands. I do not see where people say he can not defend. The kid averaged about a block and almost 1 steal a game. He is not a bad defender. I think he will end up being a great starting PF, he plays a lot like Dirk, and so what if hes a little older, he is a better player than Zeller and he has better skills and better tools.

One block per game is horrible for a 7-footer against mediocre college competition.

http://kenpom.com/

Ken Pomeroy ranked Gonzaga as having only the 89th toughest schedule.

--Maryland's schedule ranked 96th.

--Mason Plumlee and Duke faced the 7th toughest schedule.

By this am I to surmise Plumlee is great, nate? Or, is pointing at competition one of the same arguments used against Millsap and Faried coming out of college?

I mean Len faced hot garbage this season. He and Olynyk must both suck. Right?

You're not helping your case - especially considering you were just arguing the exact opposite point - that Olynyk faced a tough schedule.

Bringing up Millsap and Faried is like your code for - "I got nothing, but I was right about them; therefore I'm right about so and so."

[DANNYLANDOVER]

Olynyk has far more issues. His lateral quickness and overall athleticism is poor, and at 2 years older than Zeller, he's much less likely to add muscle to his frame.

I never understood why 7-0 footers need to be gazelles. I heard the same case about Monroe, he wasn't a good athlete. And folks are making Olynyk sound like a complete stiff. There's a thread on the draft board basically calling him the worst athlete ever and basically undraftable. I think it's ridiculous.

No, Olynyk isn't a great athlete but the man moves very well. He's mobile and agile. His moves are slithery and smooth. He reminds me of Andray Blatche in this regard. Andray had led feet and couldn't jump over a phone book but in his good moments, he utilitized a high level of skill to attack angles and create space to get decent looks.

The thing people don't seem to realize is right now, this team can use a guy with Blatche-like skills. Yeah, I went there. A big man who is a triple threat can help the second unit.

Olynyk makes plays and he finishes well.

and in possibly our last trip to the lottery, that's what you wanna come out with? a role player?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It's the Marcus Haislip syndrome. He is very athletic. He was the #13 pick. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Haislip

He's also with his 12th team in twelve years.

Rudy Gobert might be great or he might be the next Mouhamed Sene, who was a sixth pick because of his 7' 8.5 wingspan. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouhamed_Sene

Adams does project to rebound and block shots very well. He very likely won't bust.

I just don't like the guy's personality. Aside from being raw he's got something about him that makes me think he's going to be happy to be there in the NBA but won't be driven to improve .

I could really miss with Adams. I thought less of Drummond but I was wrong. Adams isn't as explosive as Drummond, but he is pretty agile for a big man.

Chris Mihm part 2 is who I see with Adams.

[theboomking]

Adams? Why?

I just don't get this love for him.

I don't know if you watched him play much this season but he's beyond raw.

It's funny that Adams wasn't on the radar for many here until his exceptional combine....and now he's this sought after player.

I Just don't get it....

I don't think anyone thought he would declare, so noone really considered him. I think he has been on the board's radar since declaring. To me, the appealing thing about Adams is you can get him at 10, or later, and groom him behind Okafor.

I know that EG doesn't want 3 rookies, but I would love to add Murphy, Adams and Porter. Developmental big, SF and stretch 4 all in one draft.

[closg00]

Mike (Detroit)

Any chance Dario Saric goes #6 to the Pelicans? Or would they only draft him if they trade back?
Chad Ford (1:15 PM)

Yes and yes. There are a handful of teams that believe Saric is a top five talent in the draft. I believe the Pelicans are one of them. So, yes, if the guys they have ranked ahead of him are all gone, I do think they'd take him at 6. However, they could probably trade down to a pick like 9 or 10, pick up an asset and still get him. The scouts that REALLY know Europe say that there's not a huge difference between Saric and Otto Porter.[

Scouts that "really know Europe", sounds like Ernie to me

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Don't like Adams at 9, don't like Williams, don't really care who we could get at 26 when you're talking about giving up the #3 pick.

I think Porter alone will end up being far more valuable than all of those pieces combined.

You don't like Adams? IMO Adams is a better prospect than Len. I'm not positive Porter couldn't be there at 9 if Cleveland or us aren't taking him earlier. What about McCollum?

If we come out of the draft with CJ McCollum, Reggie Bullock, Colton Iverson, Derrick Williams... we will have significantly upgraded our depth and our offense.

DWill is the stretch 4 we're looking for and a good Nene backup. McCollum would be a perfect 3rd guard and everything we hoped Crawford could of been, and shot 51% on 3's. Bullock shot 43% on 3's and at worst is an upgrade on Cartier Martin's role, Iverson would be a solid Okafor backup/apprentice. All of these guys also are hard working intelligent players that will fit in nicely with the vibe of this team.

But IMO the strength of this draft is not the top tier talent, but the depth. This trade would allow us to take full advantage of that and substantially upgrade our bench. Dumping Vesely and Singleton would be additional addition by subtraction.

C - Okafor, Iverson, Seraphin
PF- Nene, DWill, Booker
SF- Ariza, Webster, Bullock
SG- Beal, McCollum, Temple
PG- Wall, Price



Adams, Hardaway, Wolters plus DWill could be another worthwhile scenario. Bottom line, the trade would present us with a lot of options to upgrade the talent base of this team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

One block per game is horrible for a 7-footer against mediocre college competition.

http://kenpom.com/

Ken Pomeroy ranked Gonzaga as having only the 89th toughest schedule.

--Maryland's schedule ranked 96th.

--Mason Plumlee and Duke faced the 7th toughest schedule.

By this am I to surmise Plumlee is great, nate? Or, is pointing at competition one of the same arguments used against Millsap and Faried coming out of college?

I mean Len faced hot garbage this season. He and Olynyk must both suck. Right?

You're not helping your case - especially considering you were just arguing the exact opposite point - that Olynyk faced a tough schedule.

Bringing up Millsap and Faried is like your code for - "I got nothing, but I was right about them; therefore I'm right about so and so."

Yep, that's all I've ever been right about. Okay, Ruz.

Everybody is talking about Zeke Marshall, right? Wait. They aren't. Both Olynyk and Wolters will have good rookie seasons. Roberson will make a roster. Franklin will blow up. Crabbe will surpass expectations. Check me on this over the season.

Ruz, please try and recall what you said about Blair, Korver, Vasquez, Blake , Boozer, Novak, Marquis Daniels. I forget a lot but you and others like to mention Almond, Sweetney, and Hendrix. I mentioned guys like Machado only to be told how bad he is. Funny, but Mark Jackson likes him.

I do what bothers you, Ruz. I am right a good bit of the time..

[DANNYLANDOVER]

My homeboy putting in that work. If only we had drafted Drummond last year (still like Beal though).
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk4XNbRYhKA[/youtube]

[sfam]

Don't like Adams at 9, don't like Williams, don't really care who we could get at 26 when you're talking about giving up the #3 pick.

I think Porter alone will end up being far more valuable than all of those pieces combined.

I think this is almost always the case in bball. Trading down from the top of the draft rarely seems like a good idea. I like Zeller better at #9, but there's no assurance he will be there. And #26 is just a crapshoot. It could be a good pick, but the odds aren't high.

[sfam]

I watched Olynyk play quite a bit, and he is not slow. He is a lot quicker and more agile that most think he is. He is sneaky quick and he moves well with or with out the ball in his hands. I do not see where people say he can not defend. The kid averaged about a block and almost 1 steal a game. He is not a bad defender. I think he will end up being a great starting PF, he plays a lot like Dirk, and so what if hes a little older, he is a better player than Zeller and he has better skills and better tools.

One block per game is horrible for a 7-footer against mediocre college competition.

http://kenpom.com/

Ken Pomeroy ranked Gonzaga as having only the 89th toughest schedule.

--Maryland's schedule ranked 96th.

--Mason Plumlee and Duke faced the 7th toughest schedule.

By this am I to surmise Plumlee is great, nate? Or, is pointing at competition one of the same arguments used against Millsap and Faried coming out of college?

I mean Len faced hot garbage this season. He and Olynyk must both suck. Right?

Ok, you sold me. Yet another reason not to take Len at #3.

[pancakes3]

Adams? Why?

I just don't get this love for him.

I don't know if you watched him play much this season but he's beyond raw.

It's funny that Adams wasn't on the radar for many here until his exceptional combine....and now he's this sought after player.

I Just don't get it....

I freely admit that it could be the pendulum swinging the other way for whiffing big on Drummond but the kid is massive and moves well. His measurements and stats are identical to Drummond's and attitude trumps rawness in the NBA. I've seen a few quotes from him that he fully realizes what his role will be in the NBA and to embrace that role and to me that's all you really need from a 7 foot, 250lber.

[Deeptu McPullup]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/343237616109494272[/tweet]



Woelfel is a Bucks beat guy. Though a surname, the word would also double as a fitting adjective to use in describing such a transaction. Hopefully it's German for either "Fire Ernie" or "& John Henson".

Edit to add:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/343245127994703873[/tweet]

I'd ignore the 50-50 part as Amico is known to throw stuff against the wall and there's no chance of anyone having a particularly good chance of making real good read on the percentages.

Possibly we're making contingencies for Porter and Noel being off the board, which would be OK with me in theory, though the particulars of "others would be involved" is obviously a huge deal.

I do believe that Porter off the board to the Cavs is a real possibility as he's pretty much a perfect fit, is a phenomenal advanced stats player and Dan Gilbert seems to want to go into win-now mode.

Edited even morer:

Here's someone on the Bucks board who heard the broadcast and had more details.

Anyone else hear Gery W today on WSSP? He basically confirmed a RUMOR (as he said in big capital letters) that the Wizards are interested in Ersan AND another Buck for the #3. I thought it was interesting that he stressed the "and" part of this rumor. I know in the other threads, the idea of trading Ersan for the #3 has been discussed, but with Gery W saying this on air plus saying "AND another Buck" sparked my interest.

Anyone know who else the Wizards would want along with Ers for the #3?

Sounds like a player rather than the 15th pick, so I'd guess we'd be pushing for Henson. If it were Sanders, he'd have to be the headliner of the deal.

[Ruzious]

http://kenpom.com/

Ken Pomeroy ranked Gonzaga as having only the 89th toughest schedule.

--Maryland's schedule ranked 96th.

--Mason Plumlee and Duke faced the 7th toughest schedule.

By this am I to surmise Plumlee is great, nate? Or, is pointing at competition one of the same arguments used against Millsap and Faried coming out of college?

I mean Len faced hot garbage this season. He and Olynyk must both suck. Right?

You're not helping your case - especially considering you were just arguing the exact opposite point - that Olynyk faced a tough schedule.

Bringing up Millsap and Faried is like your code for - "I got nothing, but I was right about them; therefore I'm right about so and so."

Yep, that's all I've ever been right about. Okay, Ruz.

Everybody is talking about Zeke Marshall, right? Wait. They aren't. Both Olynyk and Wolters will have good rookie seasons. Roberson will make a roster. Franklin will blow up. Crabbe will surpass expectations. Check me on this over the season.

Ruz, please try and recall what you said about Blair, Korver, Vasquez, Blake , Boozer, Novak, Marquis Daniels. I forget a lot but you and others like to mention Almond, Sweetney, and Hendrix. I mentioned guys like Machado only to be told how bad he is. Funny, but Mark Jackson likes him.

I do what bothers you, Ruz. I am right a good bit of the time..

CCJ, I consider you a friend. And you seem to have completely misunderstand what I was trying to say.

Not that it's at all relevant, but since you asked:
Blair - I was more accurate than you were on him - and made it very clear that I wanted the Wiz to take him - as did probably more than half of the posters here. I just didn't make him out to be the best thing since microwaved Spaghetios with meatballs.
Korver - I doubt that I ever even mentioned him as a prospect. I do remember saying he was an underrated all-around player early in his NBA career. What do you remember me saying about him?
Vasquez - He's the one guy you mentioned that you can legitimately chastise me on. I didn't think he was going to make it - until late in his senior year. And I admitted it when I changed my mind.
Blake - I liked as a second round pick - as opposed to Dixon as a first rounder. I remember saying things like - Blake is going to be better than Duhon.
Boozer - I was Boozer's biggest fan as an NBA prospect. I called him the most underrated player in his draft and posted many times about that - telling people that he was much more talented than they said he was.
Novak - He's been exactly what I said he'd be - a GREAT shooter who does nothing else - and he'd be a good 2nd round pick. You've made digs several times about him as to what I said about him - and for no good reason.
Daniels - We were both all over him being underrated. As it turns out, if anything - I overrated him.
Machado - Please tell me what you think I said bad about him. I know I said he was underrated and even compared him favorably to the PG on UNC.
Almond - seriously? You've mentioned him a million times. I've mentioned him maybe twice. I purposely stay away whenever he's mentioned out of respect to you.
Sweetney - I don't know what you're thinking. I liked him as well. We were both wrong, because he got fat again.
Hendrix - I don't think I ever gave you grief on him. I thought it several times, but I don't think I ever actually chastised you about him.

Generally speaking, we've agreed on a LOT more players than we disagree on.

I thought we were having a reasonable conversation about Olynyk. But these conversations somehow have a way of ending up with you saying things like - Well, I was right about so and so and such and such, so I must be right about this guy. That's a very bad way of arguing your point. That is the reason people give you grief. But you keep doing it, anyway. That's why I called you on it. Hopefully, you understand. In the meantime, I'm going to get some sleep and hopefully dream of warm SpaghetiOs.

[gambitx777]

Nate, you know I respect you, But I absolutely disagree with you on Olynyk.
You said that 1 block per game is aweful for a 7 footer. May we go look at Dirk Nowitski's stats shall we. for his career he averages 0.9 blocks a game. He is 7 foot tall. for his carer he averages 8.2 rebounds per game. Dirk is not particularly fast or super super athletic, . But he will go down as one of the gratest PF's that ever play the game and he is not a liability on the other end of the floor.
I am not saying Olynyk will be as good as Dirkor that he will even come close, but he plays like him, hes got a Dirk type game.

I found some game footage of dirk at the nike hoops summit way back in the day, in 1998, I think he was 19 or so at the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCMSe1Injiw
and then Kelly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbqIfvu79NQ
See similarities. I do.
I know some people harp on his age a lot, and that he was not that good when he was 19 but, what matters is that he can translate that into the NBA, I believe that his skills will translate. I think that Kelly will be a good starting PF in the league. His time with the national team helped him learn and he grew a lot and the fact that hes grown and developed means a lot.

[pancakes3]

Olynyk is nowhere near the shooter that Dirk is much less the other aspects of Dirk's game that allows Dirk to do Dirk. Frankly I see more Tiago Splitter and that's being generous. More likely he's Fabricio Oberto.

As for Ruz's point on making arguments. I agree. "Look at my track record" is not a very convincing argument. "I don't like this guy because of x, y, and z." is a much more interesting read.

[gambitx777]

Now, I'm not saying he will be Dirk, I am saying if you look at there playing styles and physical limitations and attributes are similar.
Now, i feel that Olynyk's defensive short comings are fixable, effort based and coach-able. I think he is capable of defending i just don't think he was properly taught or coached to. I think once an NBA defensive coach get's a hold of him, he should be fine.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You're not helping your case - especially considering you were just arguing the exact opposite point - that Olynyk faced a tough schedule.

Bringing up Millsap and Faried is like your code for - "I got nothing, but I was right about them; therefore I'm right about so and so."

Yep, that's all I've ever been right about. Okay, Ruz.

Everybody is talking about Zeke Marshall, right? Wait. They aren't. Both Olynyk and Wolters will have good rookie seasons. Roberson will make a roster. Franklin will blow up. Crabbe will surpass expectations. Check me on this over the season.

Ruz, please try and recall what you said about Blair, Korver, Vasquez, Blake , Boozer, Novak, Marquis Daniels. I forget a lot but you and others like to mention Almond, Sweetney, and Hendrix. I mentioned guys like Machado only to be told how bad he is. Funny, but Mark Jackson likes him.

I do what bothers you, Ruz. I am right a good bit of the time..

CCJ, I consider you a friend. And you seem to have completely misunderstand what I was trying to say.

Not that it's at all relevant, but since you asked:
Blair - I was more accurate than you were on him - and made it very clear that I wanted the Wiz to take him - as did probably more than half of the posters here. I just didn't make him out to be the best thing since microwaved Spaghetios with meatballs.
Korver - I doubt that I ever even mentioned him as a prospect. I do remember saying he was an underrated all-around player early in his NBA career. What do you remember me saying about him?
Vasquez - He's the one guy you mentioned that you can legitimately chastise me on. I didn't think he was going to make it - until late in his senior year. And I admitted it when I changed my mind.
Blake - I liked as a second round pick - as opposed to Dixon as a first rounder. I remember saying things like - Blake is going to be better than Duhon.
Boozer - I was Boozer's biggest fan as an NBA prospect. I called him the most underrated player in his draft and posted many times about that - telling people that he was much more talented than they said he was.
Novak - He's been exactly what I said he'd be - a GREAT shooter who does nothing else - and he'd be a good 2nd round pick. You've made digs several times about him as to what I said about him - and for no good reason.
Daniels - We were both all over him being underrated. As it turns out, if anything - I overrated him.
Machado - Please tell me what you think I said bad about him. I know I said he was underrated and even compared him favorably to the PG on UNC.
Almond - seriously? You've mentioned him a million times. I've mentioned him maybe twice. I purposely stay away whenever he's mentioned out of respect to you.
Sweetney - I don't know what you're thinking. I liked him as well. We were both wrong, because he got fat again.
Hendrix - I don't think I ever gave you grief on him. I thought it several times, but I don't think I ever actually chastised you about him.

Generally speaking, we've agreed on a LOT more players than we disagree on.

I thought we were having a reasonable conversation about Olynyk. But these conversations somehow have a way of ending up with you saying things like - Well, I was right about so and so and such and such, so I must be right about this guy. That's a very bad way of arguing your point. That is the reason people give you grief. But you keep doing it, anyway. That's why I called you on it. Hopefully, you understand. In the meantime, I'm going to get some sleep and hopefully dream of warm SpaghetiOs.

They taste like sugar. I don't eat right but I can't get down with SpaghettiO's.

Ruz, I am beyond getting mad at petty stuff. Remember the guy at work story you told me years ago? If you don't just know this is all in fun. It's an escape for me.

[tontoz]

Anyone else hear Gery W today on WSSP? He basically confirmed a RUMOR (as he said in big capital letters) that the Wizards are interested in Ersan AND another Buck for the #3. I thought it was interesting that he stressed the "and" part of this rumor. I know in the other threads, the idea of trading Ersan for the #3 has been discussed, but with Gery W saying this on air plus saying "AND another Buck" sparked my interest.

Anyone know who else the Wizards would want along with Ers for the #3?

Sounds like a player rather than the 15th pick, so I'd guess we'd be pushing for Henson. If it were Sanders, he'd have to be the headliner of the deal.

I think this deal is definitely worth considering. Ersan shot 44% from 3 last season. He hits the boards and is on a reasonable contract.