Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

[stevemcqueen1]

I think Porter, Bennett, Len, and Zeller all have a chance to be a much better player than Ersan. I wouldn't make this deal.

[Dark Faze]

The only way I would even consider it would be for Sanders and Ersan.

[Wizardspride]

Don't like Adams at 9, don't like Williams, don't really care who we could get at 26 when you're talking about giving up the #3 pick.

I think Porter alone will end up being far more valuable than all of those pieces combined.

IMO Adams is a better prospect than Len.

I'm curious what you're basing this opinion on?

[Dark Faze]

Adams moves great for his size. 250 and 7 foot with legitimate strength and a ton of upside. I like him over Len because he seems more passionate about the game and has far less health concerns.

But yeah, Noel is the best big man prospect in this draft and its not close, his mobility and length is on a level I haven't seen in a while:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpnqLsaFRA8

^ Noel vs Adams. They both make plays, but consider the fact that Noel is busting Adams up in this vid as a 200 pound kid and imagine what he can do once he puts on some weight and learns the game a little more. Adams looks awesome too though and craps on Noel a few times.

I really see a lot of Joakim in Adams, though Adams is stronger and not quite as mobile.

[Ruzious]

They taste like sugar. I don't eat right but I can't get down with SpaghettiO's.

Ruz, I am beyond getting mad at petty stuff. Remember the guy at work story you told me years ago? If you don't just know this is all in fun. It's an escape for me.

Me too - thanks for saying that. But with SpaghettiOs, I hadn't eaten them in probably more than 25 years. I tried a can a few weeks ago, and it's like wow - It tastes like when I was a kid - and a dollar a can fills me up. But I'm not ready to go back to Quisp and Quake cereals. Those really were pure sugar - fortified with more sugar. A grapefruit for breakfast with splenda - is better.

[closg00]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/343237616109494272[/tweet]



Woelfel is a Bucks beat guy. Though a surname, the word would also double as a fitting adjective to use in describing such a transaction. Hopefully it's German for either "Fire Ernie" or "& John Henson".

Edit to add:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/343245127994703873[/tweet]

I'd ignore the 50-50 part as Amico is known to throw stuff against the wall and there's no chance of anyone having a particularly good chance of making real good read on the percentages.

Possibly we're making contingencies for Porter and Noel being off the board, which would be OK with me in theory, though the particulars of "others would be involved" is obviously a huge deal.

I do believe that Porter off the board to the Cavs is a real possibility as he's pretty much a perfect fit, is a phenomenal advanced stats player and Dan Gilbert seems to want to go into win-now mode.

Edited even morer:

Here's someone on the Bucks board who heard the broadcast and had more details.

Anyone else hear Gery W today on WSSP? He basically confirmed a RUMOR (as he said in big capital letters) that the Wizards are interested in Ersan AND another Buck for the #3. I thought it was interesting that he stressed the "and" part of this rumor. I know in the other threads, the idea of trading Ersan for the #3 has been discussed, but with Gery W saying this on air plus saying "AND another Buck" sparked my interest.

Anyone know who else the Wizards would want along with Ers for the #3?

Sounds like a player rather than the 15th pick, so I'd guess we'd be pushing for Henson. If it were Sanders, he'd have to be the headliner of the deal.

Ariza and Vesely for Ersan and Mike Dunleavy works in the trade checker. If we get the Bucks 15th, we take the best of the leftover bigs (except Gobert), and use 38 on the best SF prospect that drops. That would be an Ernie Grunfeld draft.

[tontoz]

I think Porter, Bennett, Len, and Zeller all have a chance to be a much better player than Ersan. I wouldn't make this deal.

Draft picks are overrated year after year leading up to the draft. It is as predictable as the sunrise.

[Wizardspride]

Adams moves great for his size. 250 and 7 foot with legitimate strength and a ton of upside. I like him over Len because he seems more passionate about the game and has far less health concerns.

That's interesting because I think the attributes you listed more or less apply to Len as well.

Except he has actual offensive ability.


I am somewhat concerned over his fracture though.

[WizarDynasty]

It's the Marcus Haislip syndrome. He is very athletic. He was the #13 pick. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Haislip

He's also with his 12th team in twelve years.

Rudy Gobert might be great or he might be the next Mouhamed Sene, who was a sixth pick because of his 7' 8.5 wingspan. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouhamed_Sene

Adams does project to rebound and block shots very well. He very likely won't bust.

I just don't like the guy's personality. Aside from being raw he's got something about him that makes me think he's going to be happy to be there in the NBA but won't be driven to improve .

I could really miss with Adams. I thought less of Drummond but I was wrong. Adams isn't as explosive as Drummond, but he is pretty agile for a big man.

Chris Mihm part 2 is who I see with Adams.

Chris Mihm was a slow leaper, Adams is an explosive leaper.
Adams far superior lower body strength and three times the motor that Chris Mihm had. Chris Mihm didn't have an alpha personality, kind of like Len. Adams has the physical rebounding profile of a Kevin Love, gritty, always smashing players out of position before the ball leaves the rim and instinctively getting the best rebounding positions.
Mihm hated contact. Chris Mihm wasn't a grinder which is what Adams is. Chris Mihm was finesse big didn't like contact, soft. Adams is rough scrapper with a high motor and explosive with great rebounding leverage similar to Dennis Rodman except adams is 7footer. Adams shows a Dennis Rodman like motor going for rebounds which is extremely rare for a 7 footer and he has the strength and quickness and nasty mean streak attitude to become elite.
MIhm to me had pretty good coordination and the mechanics on his jumpshot were pretty flawless. Adams had decent mechanics but not nearly as fluid as Mihm. Problem with Mihm was that he wasn't explosive.
Slow leaper, hated physical contact, didn't have above average lower body strength, and his below average lower body strength kept him from ever being dominant on the boards.
Adams explosiveness, quick leaping, lower body strength, and wingspan, outstanding leverage ability, and timing on his shot blocks makes him a corners stone on defense. His demonstrated ability to hit mid range jumpshots, ability to run teh floor and finish in transition, and alpha personality fighting in the paint and absolutely LOVING and thriving in physical contact make him a franchise big. Okafor is good with contact but I don't think he actually enjoys it. Okafor is quick leaper which is why he blocks quite a bit of shots. Adams is much better at using his body to create separation in the post offensively and getting his shot off. He is also has greater lower body strength that Okafor and okafor has slightly above average lower body strength. Adams plays much better off of contact offensively than okafor. When Adams knocks a player off balance, he still is able to maintain his balance at get a shot off. Okafor doesn't have the ability to initiate contact and still maintain great balance offensively---because okafor is pretty much a two foot jumper offensively. Adams initiate contact and has excellent balance jumping off one foot on his post moves. Other than okafor largely being a two footer jumper which limits his ability to finish an offensive move after he initiates contact because you normally have to pick the ball up on an offensive move and most of your shots are off one one foot. If you cant handle contact well you normally land off balance on your second step---huge problem with Seraphin he is also pretty much a two foot jumper offensively. Does maintain balance well after receiving contact and landing on his second step and leaping off one foot for an offensive move. Okafor and Adams are alot closer in style than Mihm and Adams, Except Adams fights for rebounds like his life depends on it each possession like a Dennis Rodman, and Adams has one foot jumping ability on offense where as okafor pretty has to jump off both feet for most of his offensive moves. Okafor isn't a good one legged jumper with balance and power where as Adams is much much better. Other than those 3 factors...they are pretty even. Mihm isn't even in the discussion. Mihm definitely can't handle contact and jump off one foot with balance and explosiveness. Cody Zeller and Len can't either and definitely not Olynk.

[sfam]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/343237616109494272[/tweet]



Woelfel is a Bucks beat guy. Though a surname, the word would also double as a fitting adjective to use in describing such a transaction. Hopefully it's German for either "Fire Ernie" or "& John Henson".

Edit to add:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/343245127994703873[/tweet]

I'd ignore the 50-50 part as Amico is known to throw stuff against the wall and there's no chance of anyone having a particularly good chance of making real good read on the percentages.

Possibly we're making contingencies for Porter and Noel being off the board, which would be OK with me in theory, though the particulars of "others would be involved" is obviously a huge deal.

I do believe that Porter off the board to the Cavs is a real possibility as he's pretty much a perfect fit, is a phenomenal advanced stats player and Dan Gilbert seems to want to go into win-now mode.

Edited even morer:

Here's someone on the Bucks board who heard the broadcast and had more details.

Anyone else hear Gery W today on WSSP? He basically confirmed a RUMOR (as he said in big capital letters) that the Wizards are interested in Ersan AND another Buck for the #3. I thought it was interesting that he stressed the "and" part of this rumor. I know in the other threads, the idea of trading Ersan for the #3 has been discussed, but with Gery W saying this on air plus saying "AND another Buck" sparked my interest.

Anyone know who else the Wizards would want along with Ers for the #3?

Sounds like a player rather than the 15th pick, so I'd guess we'd be pushing for Henson. If it were Sanders, he'd have to be the headliner of the deal.

Ariza and Vesely for Ersan and Mike Dunleavy works in the trade checker. If we get the Bucks 15th, we take the best of the leftover bigs (except Gobert), and use 38 on the best SF prospect that drops. That would be an Ernie Grunfeld draft.

This would be a nightmare scenario. Rubio all over again.

[sfam]

I think Porter, Bennett, Len, and Zeller all have a chance to be a much better player than Ersan. I wouldn't make this deal.

Draft picks are overrated year after year leading up to the draft. It is as predictable as the sunrise.

often they are. But you get a chance to draft someone with real impact. In most cases, nobody knows this until the player is in the NBA. As long as the Wiz actually draft one of the few names discussed, I'll be happy. Not so much for mediocre vets.

[theboomking]

I would have been fine with the 8th pick for Illyasova, but not the 3rd. We are going to have cap room. There is a fair chance we could just use the 3rd pick and then add an Illyasova caliber FA next year. I would rather have Porter or Len on a rookie contract than Illyasova on his current contract.

Any work on whether we are working out Erik Murphy?

[pancakes3]

Adams moves great for his size. 250 and 7 foot with legitimate strength and a ton of upside. I like him over Len because he seems more passionate about the game and has far less health concerns.

That's interesting because I think the attributes you listed more or less apply to Len as well.

Except he has actual offensive ability.

I am somewhat concerned over his fracture though.

It does apply to Len and Len is better offensively but Adams is showing more than what Len did as a freshman. Len's "red flags" for me would be that he's a 2nd year player and could/should have been wrecking shop but outside of the opener he's played pretty passively and didn't have a very statistically dominant season.

[sfam]

I would have been fine with the 8th pick for Illyasova, but not the 3rd. We are going to have cap room. There is a fair chance we could just use the 3rd pick and then add an Illyasova caliber FA next year. I would rather have Porter or Len on a rookie contract than Illyasova on his current contract.

Any work on whether we are working out Erik Murphy?

Totally agree with this. Moreso, there is still the chance that the #3 pick turns out to be an elite player. Only if the Wizards determine there is virtually no chance of anyone available doesn't have a chance to be elite would I consider the trade down possibilities.

Bottom line, it would suck to find out a year or two later that Porter or Bennett ends up in the All-star game and we're sitting there with a player tapping our cap room that is only decent.

[Wizardspride]

Adams moves great for his size. 250 and 7 foot with legitimate strength and a ton of upside. I like him over Len because he seems more passionate about the game and has far less health concerns.

That's interesting because I think the attributes you listed more or less apply to Len as well.

Except he has actual offensive ability.

I am somewhat concerned over his fracture though.

It does apply to Len and Len is better offensively but Adams is showing more than what Len did as a freshman. Len's "red flags" for me would be that he's a 2nd year player and could/should have been wrecking shop but outside of the opener he's played pretty passively and didn't have a very statistically dominant season.

I tend to side with the opinion of (many) scouts that Len was hindered by the horrible guard play around him...and lack of consistent outside shooting.


Heck, they couldn't make a basic entry pass.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Len is the perfect prospect....but I don't see his weaknesses as being things he can't overcome.

Len has come along way considering he didn't arrive on campus until Sept, spoke very little english, was underweight and had to sit out the first 10 games of his freshman season due to the NCAA.

Basically Len didn't get the time to develop that many freshman do. He was thrown right into ACC competition and it was rough.

But he still flashed enough his freshman year that you knew something was there.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I tend to look at Len a little differently because of his circumstances.



I could be totally wrong about his upside but I don't think so.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

Any chance that extra Buck player is Larry Sanders? I would have to say no chance in hell.

[DCZards]

I would have been fine with the 8th pick for Illyasova, but not the 3rd. We are going to have cap room. There is a fair chance we could just use the 3rd pick and then add an Illyasova caliber FA next year. I would rather have Porter or Len on a rookie contract than Illyasova on his current contract.

Agreed. The 3rd pick for Illyasova and Sanders. Probably. The 3rd pick for Illyasova and Henson. Maybe. But the 3rd pick for Illyasova. No way.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

I would trade any/all assets we presently have (outside of Beal and Wall) for Sanders and Illyasova. The way you win in this league is you NEED a rim protector, rebounders, and shooters. Illyasova gives 2 of those 3 things and so does Sanders.

Sanders
Ilyasova
Webster
Beal
Wall

Is a CHAMPIONSHIP contending team in a couple years.

[WizarDynasty]

ilyasova doesn't have great body control with the basketball from what i have seen. someone may know better. Ilaysova isn't really explosive. His rebounding numbers suggest that he has above average body strength playing the four but i haven't watched him enough to observe his post defense.
If doesn't have great lower body strength to defend 4's in the post, or hasn't shown the ability to consistently finish through contact jumping after absorbing contact on a move to basket, or an explosive first step.
Without these 2 of these 3 attributes, he will be a stretch 4 coming off the bench. I don't think coming away with an average starter like a porter ilyasova is going to do us any good longterm. Coming away with a player who we would have no chance at in free agency after they are fully developed is the goal.

[Deeptu McPullup]

Not sure if this was discussed or not, but I caught this in the CSN piece on Bennet interviewing:

Otto Porter of Georgetown is interviewing and working out for the Wizards next Thursday and Friday.

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... vs-bennett

Two days of hand-holding? Am I wrong to think that sounds like something?