NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 2

[montestewart]

Watching the Spurs really makes you realize how far away the Wizards are from competing.

This. Good gracious, they're like a machine. So well-tuned, so focused, so locked in. Their rotation is entirely void of knuckleheads, low-IQ players, or lazy bums.

They give lie to the mantra, "continuity." Players that are not keepers usually don't become keepers through continuity. The Spurs keep the players that are good, that do their job, that buy into the program, and they ditch the rest as soon as they can. If you have the players to compete, continuity finely tunes that team. If you don't, continuity just perpetuates acceptance of losing. If the Wizards retain all three of Seraphin, Vesely, and Singleton for another year, I don't know what else to consider that but the continuity of failure.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I will say this, though: the Heat have shown the ability to make excellent - and, ulitmately, successful - adjustments throughout their Big 3 era.

I remember thinking that OKC looked like a juggernaut this time last year as well - until the Heat made their adjustments. The Pacers played the Heat even in the EC finals until Spo unleashed the double teams and benched Battier for Miller. Etc.

We'll see what kinds of adjustments the Heat make in this series. Perhaps a little more LeBron on Parker? Or maybe they'll go small w/ Miller at the 4 and Bosh running the baselines like an Uber-Haslem at the 5. Etc.

Good points, keynote.

I just read that this Heat team has trailed 0-1 in three different series. They adjusted and came back to beat Indiana and Chicago 4-1 this playoff. They did the same against OKC last year to win it all.

Under the 2-3-2 format they're still in good shape if they manage to win game 2 .

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Loved the game last night. It was that typical game where one team is behind the whole game but hangs around long enough you know they are going to win at the end. The Spurs defense down the stretch was unbelievable. I hope they can keep it up. Nothing would make me happier than to see the Heat go down.

The Spurs really put on a defensive clinic. They tightened the screws as the game went on. Miami did not get many open looks, except for Bosh. Spoelstra said Bosh might have been open by design.

The Spurs were way sharper than I expected.

[FAH1223]

Good points, keynote.

I just read that this Heat team has trailed 0-1 in three different series. They adjusted and came back to beat Indiana and Chicago 4-1 this playoff. They did the same against OKC last year to win it all.

Under the 2-3-2 format they're still in good shape if they manage to win game 2 .

The problem is, Chicago was depleted. Indiana turned it over a ton and was inexperienced. OKC was inexperienced and let the thought of trying to win in Miami become too much for them. Plus, OKC has no bigs that can score on the block. San Antonio has Duncan who will do work against any Heat big and Splitter has some moves himself and is excellent at rolling to the hoop.

The Spurs, like the Mavericks of two years ago, are full of veterans.

I'll say this, Indiana had a chance to be up 2-0 last round. If the Spurs have a lead late on Sunday, they will make LeBron take a shot.. not get a layup.

[GhostsOfGil]

Watching the Spurs really makes you realize how far away the Wizards are from competing.

Beal fits the Spurs' profile of players. Well-spoken, humble , grounded, great shooter, team player. Okafor and Webster fit the profile in the same way Splitter and Green do. Temple has been a Spur. Ariza is a three and D player who would be in their rotation.

Nene's health, Wall's maturity and consistent stellar play, and offensive depth separate the level the teams compete at. It's not a fair comparison, considering the Spurs have Duncan and many years together under Popovich.

Can the Wizards match up with Indiana? That's who they need to chase.

Individually, it's fairly close but that's not what I'm looking at. The Spurs' offensive execution and discipline is so perfect.

I'm not trying to compare them, I'm just saying after watching them, it really puts to light how unorganized and inexperienced our team is.

[Ruzious]

Where have you guys been? Pop has been letting players run "the huddle" in games for years now. There was footage at least a couple years old of Ginobili doing the same thing.

It's interesting. And just think, a few decades ago, KC Jones got fired from Washington in part for footage showing an assistant running a timeout huddle.

It is fun to watch though - I enjoyed that video of Parker doing it. I'm sure you're right, but for us fans who haven't seen that kind of thing, it's startling.

[pancakes3]

To be fair, what Tony was breaking down in the huddle wasn't really heady x's and o's. Furthermore It might even be staged to a certain degree (He knew it was going to be miked up and the camera crew is going to poke their nose in so he just said screw it. Run the interior break - or whatever call Tony called - and be done with it). I think the real takeaway lesson is that Pops has his guys so well trained that he doesn't even have to get into it. He trusts the game plan and he trusts his players. Play tight on the perimeter - don't worry about penetration, and don't get caught in the air. It's very similar to Phil Jackson.

[nate33]

^Im not seeing the left foot slide. I'm seeing him go to his toes on the left foot when he spins but where's the slide?

The fact that he picks up the pivot is what makes it a travel.

It's not a pivot foot. He doesn't pivot on it because he doesn't pick the other foot up and down multiple times. It's not a pivot foot plus a step. It's simply two steps.

[nate33]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSRk7qrwDNA[/youtube]

Just like the one he did on Prince in the last round.

Manu might be the best passer in the game. His court vision is incredible and he routinely racks up 6 or 7 assists despite playing limited minutes and not being a primary ball handler.

[Rafael122]

It's hard to watch Wade at times. His 30s aren't going to be too kind to him. He looks slow, easily worn down, what the hell happened?

[Ruzious]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSRk7qrwDNA[/youtube]

Just like the one he did on Prince in the last round.

Manu might be the best passer in the game. His court vision is incredible and he routinely racks up 6 or 7 assists despite playing limited minutes and not being a primary ball handler.

I think he could have been a point guard with better health and no Tony Parker around. Historically, I'm not sure there have been many better backcourt pairs over the number of years they've played together. Detroit probably had the best 3some with Isaiah and Dumars backed by the Microwave. Maybe the old Celtics teams before my time.

[Ruzious]

It's hard to watch Wade at times. His 30s aren't going to be too kind to him. He looks slow, easily worn down, what the hell happened?

He's not as explosive, but he can still overpower most guards and post them up. It's just really annoying to watch him spend so much of his efforts trying to trick the officials.

[hands11]

I still would favor Mia although I'm rooting for the Spurs. Biggest issue for Miami is do they respect their opponent enough? I think Lebron does, but what about the other guys on the team and Spoelstra? He can't treat the Spurs like any other team and think that if they execute their gameplan they will win. The Spurs aren't the Bull/ Pacers/ Knicks/ or OKC. They have championship pedigree and it shows. They won't fold under pressure and won't get caught up in the emotions of a run by either team. They're the ONLY team in the league right now that has the mindset necessary to beat the Heat in a best of 7 series.

Another thing going against Miami. The older/tougher team (as long as they're not too old) usually wins in sports.

This is when you really get to evaluate the stuff that really matters about players and how a team is put together.

And one big quality is the mental make up of players. And experience. The Indy serious was good for that as well. Paul George was really good, but you could see his lack of experience showing. Lance Stephenson as well. Indy will be back and they be better for the experience they just had.

Also you see teams that have consistency on their rosters.

This is a reason I don't want to see the Wizards get to young in their starting line up nor move Nene, Trevor A, or Okafor yet. And I want to see them resign Wester. I like what they had last year when healthy. I think it would be best for them to keep that going another year. They need more time together with those experienced players. Get Wall and Beal into the playoffs. That's what I think is most important.

From there, there are always ways to add players. The draft isn't the only answer. And they have one every year.

Those are two young talented pups that need to get exposed to this playoff level of play right away so they can mature mentally and physically.

So for me, I'm not approaching this draft as finding another core piece long term as much as I want to make sure they draft a piece that will maintain value while also helping the team build out its depth.

All the evaluating individual players is fun but for me, I'm not sold there is anyone in this draft that will be a long term core piece to become the 3rd piece of a Wall, Beal core.

So with that in mind, I would be happy with any of McLemore, Burke, Len, Otto. Noel should fit that description as well. Regardless of what he does next year, he will keep his value because his name and potential has been marketed so well.

They don't have to find the perfect piece to match with Wall and Beal right now. They have at least another year to do that. Gotta keep things flexible so when that player comes free, you have the assets to get them. Because once they do that, they are really set up for a long time.

I don't really see that player in this draft. And even if there is some gem in there, they won't likely be ready at the level Wall and Beal will need then to be for another 3 years. So you need your Nene, Okafor, Webster and Trevor A level talent until they are ready. That how SA is bringing Kawhi along.

You gotta keep you eye on adding a player like LaMarcus Aldridge or Greg Monroe. And those aren't moves that are likely to happen this year so just keep this thing together another year and add assets. Keep those big contracts like Trevor A incase you want to use them later. They don't need to hit a home run in this draft. They already did that with Wall and Beal.

[hands11]

I still would favor Mia although I'm rooting for the Spurs. Biggest issue for Miami is do they respect their opponent enough? I think Lebron does, but what about the other guys on the team and Spoelstra? He can't treat the Spurs like any other team and think that if they execute their gameplan they will win.

I think both teams were playing near their best last night. I think the pivotal game in this series will be Game 3. If the Heat go down 2-1, they give the Spurs a path to protect home court and win in 6.

Every next game is pivotal when you are in the finals.

Game 1 was absolutely huge. SA took game one. That makes game 2 critical. If SA takes both of the first two games on the road, the series if OVER.

This next game is huge huge.

And SA is the type of team that will fully realize that. They will go for the throat and try to end this series right now. They will approach it like its a game 7.

Cuz if they can take this game an go to SA up 2-0 with game 3 at home, then they will double down on the game 7 approach and the crowd at home will go nuts. Take that game and Miami's backs will really be broken with two more games in SA ahead of them and SA only needing to win 1. That would be a wrap.

So tonight game is HUGE. I expect SA to be steady as she goes. They have to absorb Miami's early emotional push and just make sure they game is close at half time. Then SA will wear them down from there. If SA can take have the lead sometimes around the 2 min mark in the 3rd, they will be sitting pretty to take the game.

[hands11]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSRk7qrwDNA[/youtube]

Just like the one he did on Prince in the last round.

That either very lucky or down right amazing. The timing to do that is insane. And to decide it on the fly is almost worrisome.

Not a very high probability of that pass actually working.

[hands11]

Watching the Spurs really makes you realize how far away the Wizards are from competing.

Beal fits the Spurs' profile of players. Well-spoken, humble , grounded, great shooter, team player. Okafor and Webster fit the profile in the same way Splitter and Green do. Temple has been a Spur. Ariza is a three and D player who would be in their rotation.

Nene's health, Wall's maturity and consistent stellar play, and offensive depth separate the level the teams compete at. It's not a fair comparison, considering the Spurs have Duncan and many years together under Popovich.

Can the Wizards match up with Indiana? That's who they need to chase.

I agree CCJ. I have felt for a while that the Wizards model feels like a SA mold. Randy strikes me as a Popish type in character without the winning experience and less Xs and Os. But he did great with the team defense and starting a passing offense. Wall by some accounts is Parker smart as a PG and we know he is a better athlete. He just doesn't have Parkers experience or the consistent roster of quality players around him. And like you said, they had Duncan who is not only a awesome talent, but its Duncans professionalism and personality that grounded that team. That what allows them to grow a Parker to take over and several years down the road they will have grown Kawhi to take over. Its just a machine.

Players like Temple and Ariza would fit perfectly on a SA team. Personally, I think they are players we need to keep. Neither may be stud top talents but you don't need every player to be that. They have Wall and Beal for that.

You look at a team like SA and you can really see just how important fit matters. Because at the end of the day, your talking about just 13 players total. Every piece is important.

But to become that kind of franchise takes consistency and time. You have to build up that kind of experience so it is ingrained and flows through the franchise. Profession, mature, hard working, team focused. Good character. Only add players that fit into that mold.

I think the Wizards made great strides in that area last year. Beal was a great addition. And Webster was just huge with the role he played.

From here, I think the Wizards could make a huge leap toward really establishing a solid team if Nene can come back healthy so he can do more of what he did when we first added him. Nene is there TD. If he can step it up, that would be HUGE. I so many ways, Nene is the key to what they can get done next year.

Wall, Beal and Nene with the right surrounding crew of Webster, Trevor A and Okafor is a team that would really surprise some people. From there, you just need a few more quality role players that fit the mold. I think Temple is one. They just need help at back up PG, SG, a rebounding PF ( they are hoping on Kevin ) and a long center.

That all they need for next year. They can add better shooting from range at the PF later. For now, all those players really need to do it hit the mid range. Nene, Kevin, Booker and someone like Len should be able to handle that.

Your range shooting would be Wall, Beal, Webster, Trevor A and whatever they add. Temple might even surprise some with improved outside shooting.

I really think they are farther along then some give them credit so I really hope they do change to much while using the assets at hand in a way that keeps those asset value for down the road moves.

[hands11]

Watching the Spurs really makes you realize how far away the Wizards are from competing.

This. Good gracious, they're like a machine. So well-tuned, so focused, so locked in. Their rotation is entirely void of knuckleheads, low-IQ players, or lazy bums.

They give lie to the mantra, "continuity." Players that are not keepers usually don't become keepers through continuity. The Spurs keep the players that are good, that do their job, that buy into the program, and they ditch the rest as soon as they can. If you have the players to compete, continuity finely tunes that team. If you don't, continuity just perpetuates acceptance of losing. If the Wizards retain all three of Seraphin, Vesely, and Singleton for another year, I don't know what else to consider that but the continuity of failure.

Unless they serious step it up I doubt that all three will be here next year. Maybe not any of them will be here after this year.

People can complain about what Randy did with minutes and what management did with bring in players ahead of them but both were the right moves. Its what Wall and Beal needed and that what really mattered. The bar has been raised. They added the right kind of quality talent and they played those players. If you want to make it on a winning team, you have to be better then that level of player. If you can't, you'll get shipped off unless you are a productive consistent role player at the right price.

Personally, I think they would move Singleton now if the right opportunity came up. Even if he was more productive. He just doesn't seem to fit that well.

Kevin and Ves still have upside they want to evaluate that could raise their value either as keepers or as trade chips. I think they would be less likely to move either of them this year. But its **** or get off the pot time for both.

This is year 4 for Kevin and at 23/24, its time to show if he can really do something consistently. He has to show he can play strong and not just finesse. He would have to mature a ton before I would ever consider him as a Nene level replacement so for now, seems like they would move him eventually.

Ves has to show he isn't mental and can actually shoot the rock.

That's what they need to do. But even if they do, it still doesn't mean they will keep either. It just means they have move value when it comes time to make a move for the next right pieces.

[hands11]

Watching the Spurs really makes you realize how far away the Wizards are from competing.

Beal fits the Spurs' profile of players. Well-spoken, humble , grounded, great shooter, team player. Okafor and Webster fit the profile in the same way Splitter and Green do. Temple has been a Spur. Ariza is a three and D player who would be in their rotation.

Nene's health, Wall's maturity and consistent stellar play, and offensive depth separate the level the teams compete at. It's not a fair comparison, considering the Spurs have Duncan and many years together under Popovich.

Can the Wizards match up with Indiana? That's who they need to chase.

Individually, it's fairly close but that's not what I'm looking at. The Spurs' offensive execution and discipline is so perfect.

I'm not trying to compare them, I'm just saying after watching them, it really puts to light how unorganized and inexperienced our team is.

I would disagree. They are just inexperienced in playing together.

Nene, Okafor, Webster and Trevor A are not inexperienced. And starting next year, I would start to move Wall into that camp. He is just at the beginning of what I would call experienced. And Beal is just a really quick learner. I expect him to be playing like a seasoned vet by year three and showing great signs of that starting next year. I think Beal will really establish himself next year. He is going to be one of the players the whole league talks about when it comes to future young stars.

Wall and Beal is so much more talent then this board seems to fully grasp. We very well could be looking at top 5 in their position at PG and SG. Come 2014/2015, they should both be in full on beast mode.

So for me, I really don't care if they draft a 3rd piece. You surround talent like that with more veteran players and you go win something. If you trade for a starting piece, that player should have at least 4 years experience.

[FAH1223]

Joe Crawford is reffing Game 2.

[FAH1223]