adiedanny wrote:og15 wrote:Did you miss the less talented part? Reggie is a slightly worse rebounder, his rebound per game numbers aren't there because no one wants to play Reggie so much, but rebound rate is in a similar range. He's worse at everything else, not really a good man to man defender, okay, and a less versatile defender, so hence the less talented part.
I don't think you're grasping less talented very well here. What exactly would Rodman be if he has less talent, probably someone like Reggie Evans.
He is a lot more than slightly. Talented? He was pure power, hustle, desire, mental and speed. talent is when it comes with ease. He was always working his butt off. The first to be on a bike while not playing and now you see others doing that. at the time ppl just thought he was a crazy freak. Don't get me wrong he was a freak but that guy worked really hard to get where he was as an NBA player
There's talent to defense and rebounding, and actually if you look at their rebound rates, it's not too far.
Rodman career: 23.4 TRB%, Career high: 29.7 TRB%
Reggie career: 21.9 TRB%, Career high: 26.7 TRB%
Reggie career per 36:
7.5 pts, 13.3 rebs, 1.0 ast, 1.3 stl, 2.0 tov, 4.4 fouls, 46.7% FG, 52.1% FT, .502 TS%, 11.7 PER
Rodman career per 36:
8.3 pts, 14.9 rebs, 2.0 ast, 0.8 stl, 1.9 tov, 3.5 fouls, 52.1% FG, 58.4% FT, .546 TS%, 14.6 PER
When you look at simple production, Reggie is the poor man's version of Rodman, but Rodman is quicker, faster, can jump higher, just a vastly superior athlete, so yea he has more talent. Then add that Rodman produces better everywhere, but then because of the athletic anility is also a better man to man defender, and a more versatile defender, and a better finisher. Reggie has the hustle and desire, that's all will, the speed and power and athletic ability (talent), Reggie has little of that. Hence, Reggie is Rodman if you strip away the speed, quickness, jumping ability.
Neddy come on, these are actually comparable guys in production. Stacey Augmon had a career high of 14.8 pts, a per minute high of 17.4 pts/36 in his second season. His career per 36 is: 13.3 pts, 5.3 rebs, 2.6 assists, 1.6 stls. Great length, nice defender, but Drexler has career per 36 numbers of: 21.3 pts, 6.4 rebs, 5.9 assists, 2.1 stls, there's a bit more of a gap in production ability than when we compare Reggie and Rodman.
Similarly Darius Miles, he averaged 14 pts as his career high. Now, you could say Vince Carter is a less talented version of Micheal Jordan including the mental approach, and that's accurate. Vince had the hops, but never had the speed and quickness or the handle of Jordan in addition to never being a killer on the basketball court. Maybe if Darius Miles had career averages of like 24/5/4 but wasn't a mediocre defender, an average closer, had a bit less athletic ability and feel for the game, yea, we could say he's a less talented Jordan.
You could say Michael Conley is the upper middle class version of Chris Paul, those are comparisons more in line with this. Comparing players who aren't just far away in the not so obvious things, but nowhere in the as,e stratosphere in actual statistical production is not in the same as this.
Like I said, Rodman in addition is actually a good man to man defender, he's also more versatile defender, he could guard 3-5, he fouled less, had a lower turnover% though both are meh there, could finish and was a better FT shooter (despite both being bad) so he wasn't inefficient with the shots he did take. He was also still a better rebounder despite how good Reggie is. Some of those things are because he can move quicker laterally and jump higher than 2 inches. Rodman was also able to get more on court minutes and have better statistical production because he wasn't bad on offense in comparison (114 Ortg to 103 Ortg), he had spacing issues, but he didn't hurt the offense while Reggie has the spacing issues and hurts the offense because of really low percentages. Also because his man to man defense was much better yes due to smarts, but all the smarts without his physical tools can only do so much.
It's funny I just made this exact same post but from the other angle on the general board explaining why though Reggie and Rodman are similar in production, well raw production, Rodman was basically better at everything and at all the more intangible things.
