#3 for Ilyasova being discussed

[pancakes3]

When did I say that? I'm just trying to tell you guys what I think about Ersan as a Bucks fan, sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way?

Most here probably don't see eye to eye with the majority on your board regarding what would be a good trade. In general, it's nothing personal. Our team has a history rich in blown picks and disastrous trades. When we hear the GM is about to pull the trigger, everyone gets a little twitchy.

Oh trust me I know how it is, our front office is beyond inept. Just was trying to give my take on Ersan, I definitely like him on your team, but surely can see where you guys are coming from being down on this trade. Just thinks its being far overblown.

I get what you're saying. You just want to allay our potential fears of why a team wants to get rid of someone. I understand. Henson has higher upside so Ilyasova and his contract can/should be moved. It's nothing personal and it's not even that he's a bad player. I don't think he's a bad player. I think he's dirk with a few inches shaved off and worse handles - a lot worse. In the right situation he can succeed and "streaky" isn't that he's hot and cold - it's he's average with enormous big-game potential.

People might be having Andray Blatche flashbacks when they see a jumpshooting PF that's labeled as "high potential yet streaky" hence the undervaluation. Can't fault them. I don't think the label fits but that's where the lashback could be spawned. Thanks for the heads up but despite the overwhelming twitter reports, I think the majority of the board would still want either Porter or Bennett and keep Okafor.

Really it's the Okafor bit that's the tipping point imo.

[paulpressey25]

A couple thoughts. I know some of you are split on including Okafor, Nene or neither in this deal. From my standpoint as a Bucks fan, I really don't care if you keep both guys.

But my guess is that Okafor needs to be included from both a salary standpoint and also probably the "swag" piece that allows our GM to sell the deal to our unsophisticated owner --"Hey, Senator Kohl, I'm getting back in this deal the SECOND overall pick in the 2004 draft, so even though we are giving up essentially 3 PF/C's, don't worry, we have their replacement so we can be competitive next season"

As far as Ersan goes, he's pretty much been our best player the past two years. He gets hurt on defense a lot in certain matchups, but at the same time, he's excellent at taking the key charge and his rebounding allows him to be garbage man on the glass. And he's shot 45% from three the past two years while still getting significant double-doubles. This guy is not Troy Murphy. He's a lot better.

His contract is a good value at approximately 4/$32 remaining on it. That last year is a team option, so he's guaranteed only 3/$24

I know some of you guys are sensitive to Bucks fan's "selling the deal" as if there is something terribly wrong with the players we'd send to Washington. I'd say the answer isn't that these are bad players. The answer is that our franchise has been so poorly run that we simply want to take a chance at what's behind door #3 because nothing else has worked.

And given our poor management and terrible luck, the odds are high that if we acquire the #3 pick, the player we take will have a career along the lines of Mike Dunleavy on the high end or Mayo, Thomas Robinson, Tyreke Evans, etc. In other words, this isn't the 2003 or 2007 or other strong drafts. The fact a guy recovering from a blown ACL (Noel) is being considered #1 overall tells you all you need to know.

Probably one guy from the crew of Porter, Oladipo, McLemore, Bennett and Burke will be an all star. Just no one can really tell you which one will be the all-star and which other four guys will be more like Michael Beasley or Evan Turner.

[Dark Faze]

I just don't see a net positive of getting Ersan for either Ariza or Okafor + #3.

I mean those two guys came in here and turned our defense around, and our defense is the only reason we're good, then you talk about throwing a 2nd or 3rd option player into the trade and it looks down right insane.

I really don't care much about offense right now. We won games based off of defense. I don't want to mess with our front court unless we can get an unbelievable upgrade at either position and Ilyasova is not that.

Ariza + Booker for Ilyasova is something I'd do if the Bucks just want to go for the rebuild and lose salary, but there's zero chance I give them the #3 unless Sanders is included. Not even for Henson due to low sample size.

[nuposse04]

A couple thoughts. I know some of you are split on including Okafor, Nene or neither in this deal. From my standpoint as a Bucks fan, I really don't care if you keep both guys.

But my guess is that Okafor needs to be included from both a salary standpoint and also probably the "swag" piece that allows our GM to sell the deal to our unsophisticated owner --"Hey, Senator Kohl, I'm getting back in this deal the SECOND overall pick in the 2004 draft, so even though we are giving up essentially 3 PF/C's, don't worry, we have their replacement so we can be competitive next season"

And why should we have to care about the mental well being of your owner regarding the deal? Okafor and Nene helped anchor our D last year. They aren't long term options since I only see 2 good years coming out of them but losing one would certainly shoot out playoff chances...especially okafor IMO. And this deal is suppose to sell us on the whole "make the playoffs now" crap isn't it?

As far as Ersan goes, he's pretty much been our best player the past two years. He gets hurt on defense a lot in certain matchups, but at the same time, he's excellent at taking the key charge and his rebounding allows him to be garbage man on the glass. And he's shot 45% from three the past two years while still getting significant double-doubles. This guy is not Troy Murphy. He's a lot better.

I don't think anyone here thinks he's a terrible player. I see him being worth a 7-10 pick in this draft. I think he IS inconsistant, I have seen him go long stretches in games without hitting shots. I think he'll be a liability in playoff basketball where defenses are a lot tighter. And he won't get his shot off as easy. And n

His contract is a good value at approximately 4/$32 remaining on it. That last year is a team option, so he's guaranteed only 3/$24

I don't mind his contract so long as it is Ariza who is going back to you guys.

I know some of you guys are sensitive to Bucks fan's "selling the deal" as if there is something terribly wrong with the players we'd send to Washington. I'd say the answer isn't that these are bad players. The answer is that our franchise has been so poorly run that we simply want to take a chance at what's behind door #3 because nothing else has worked.

I hope you're not searching for sympathy, cause that's what it sounds like. Saying your franchise has been run bad doesn't hide the fact you want to unload bad players on us. You want a bail out, and EG is stupid enough to provide the Bucks one.

And given our poor management and terrible luck, the odds are high that if we acquire the #3 pick, the player we take will have a career along the lines of Mike Dunleavy on the high end or Mayo, Thomas Robinson, Tyreke Evans, etc. In other words, this isn't the 2003 or 2007 or other strong drafts. The fact a guy recovering from a blown ACL (Noel) is being considered #1 overall tells you all you need to know.

So you're trying to convince us this draft class is bad...yet you want to move up to shake up the fortunes of your franchise? Surely you don't think Ersan is better then the potential Porter, Noel, Burke, Ben, Bennett, Len, Oladipo exude?

Probably one guy from the crew of Porter, Oladipo, McLemore, Bennett and Burke will be an all star. Just no one can really tell you which one will be the all-star and which other four guys will be more like Michael Beasley or Evan Turner.

You can't say that for certain. Ersan was a 2nd round pick and look, he made himself worth a damn. All the guys you listed I'm confident will be better pros then Ersan, and some others as well. I see no reason to give up valuable expirings (okafor) to take on a good player who won't put us over the top, on top of taking on garbage players who you have yet to illustrate at worth being a damn. I know you're a good guy PP25, and you come in peace, but this is a bad trade for our ability to contend long term. No Bucks fans has spun it positively for us yet. :/

It is a losing trade for us unless one of sanders/Henson is included. Period. But, EG, as you know...is...."special" so your franchise may get the bailout its looking for.

[JWizmentality]

A couple thoughts. I know some of you are split on including Okafor, Nene or neither in this deal. From my standpoint as a Bucks fan, I really don't care if you keep both guys.

But my guess is that Okafor needs to be included from both a salary standpoint and also probably the "swag" piece that allows our GM to sell the deal to our unsophisticated owner --"Hey, Senator Kohl, I'm getting back in this deal the SECOND overall pick in the 2004 draft, so even though we are giving up essentially 3 PF/C's, don't worry, we have their replacement so we can be competitive next season"

As far as Ersan goes, he's pretty much been our best player the past two years. He gets hurt on defense a lot in certain matchups, but at the same time, he's excellent at taking the key charge and his rebounding allows him to be garbage man on the glass. And he's shot 45% from three the past two years while still getting significant double-doubles. This guy is not Troy Murphy. He's a lot better.

His contract is a good value at approximately 4/$32 remaining on it. That last year is a team option, so he's guaranteed only 3/$24

I know some of you guys are sensitive to Bucks fan's "selling the deal" as if there is something terribly wrong with the players we'd send to Washington. I'd say the answer isn't that these are bad players. The answer is that our franchise has been so poorly run that we simply want to take a chance at what's behind door #3 because nothing else has worked.

And given our poor management and terrible luck, the odds are high that if we acquire the #3 pick, the player we take will have a career along the lines of Mike Dunleavy on the high end or Mayo, Thomas Robinson, Tyreke Evans, etc. In other words, this isn't the 2003 or 2007 or other strong drafts. The fact a guy recovering from a blown ACL (Noel) is being considered #1 overall tells you all you need to know.

Probably one guy from the crew of Porter, Oladipo, McLemore, Bennett and Burke will be an all star. Just no one can really tell you which one will be the all-star and which other four guys will be more like Michael Beasley or Evan Turner.

I'm sure Ersan is a good player, but that's it. He nothing to write home about. Others here are selling him as our new big man. We'd be better off just drafting the bpa in the draft. Why give up the third pick and a solid big man who plays defense for him? It's reeks of a move just to make a move. It makes us worse period!

[deneem4]

Hes an older klay thompson...and we would trade tht 3rd pick in a heart beat for klay....miami had birdman, hes a top 7 center like it or nt And miami is miami...everyone except paul george Was embaressed by them...
porter may be the nxt ummm luol deng at best...but how hard is that to come by??...look at jimmy butler, look at iman shumpert...sound exactly lik what people want porter to be...

Ersan had the 4th best 3pt % this yr...2nd last yr

Our development team suck...especially for forwards...
I could understand if we were drafting oladipo, but other than him theres no game changer in this draft with a good acl...

Ersan can change our team...everytime he subs the opp will have to make adjustments...I would even like to see him an vesley at sf and pf combo...

Wow seriously? Chris Anderson as a top 7 center is perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Dwight
Duncan
Gasol
Lopez
Horford
Noah
Hibbert
Monroe
Cousins
Jefferson
Sanders

The list goes on and on.

And out of all those listed which ones are not part of a pf/c combo??

[paulpressey25]

And why should we have to care about the mental well being of your owner regarding the deal?

Because my understanding is Grunfeld is the one who put these particular deal parameters on the table and the sell job is by our GM to our owner.

Look, I understand your mental well being is troubled by all this trade talk. But at the end of the day, these discussions are/have taken place. Whether something goes down or doesn't remains to be seen. And usually when things get this public, it means the deal is already dead.

I'm simply coming in peace trying to give you insight on what is going on our front office, a front office by the way where Grunfeld worked as our GM for five years.

[Illuminaire]

Deneem, your words do not make a great deal of sense. Also, please go check Birdman's playing history. He is very, very good... for about 15-20 minutes. He cannot sustain his play. Over the course of his career, that has always been his greatest flaw. There is a reason that Miami isn't playing him more minutes now, and it's because they understand his limitations.

A dude stuck playing 15-20 minutes a game cannot be considered a top player at his position, because his overall impact is significantly reduced. So please reconsider your batcrazy argument*. =D

*I didn't even start in on how his man defense is pretty eh most of the time, or his offensive limitations, or that he's 34 year old...

[sfam]

Hes an older klay thompson...and we would trade tht 3rd pick in a heart beat for klay....miami had birdman, hes a top 7 center like it or nt And miami is miami...everyone except paul george Was embaressed by them...
porter may be the nxt ummm luol deng at best...but how hard is that to come by??...look at jimmy butler, look at iman shumpert...sound exactly lik what people want porter to be...

Ersan had the 4th best 3pt % this yr...2nd last yr

Our development team suck...especially for forwards...
I could understand if we were drafting oladipo, but other than him theres no game changer in this draft with a good acl...

Ersan can change our team...everytime he subs the opp will have to make adjustments...I would even like to see him an vesley at sf and pf combo...

Wait, did I read that right? Birdman is a top 7 center????

Yes he is...hes the only center tht plays with anywhere near the amount of energy as noah...he has a per of 27.4 in the playoffs...hes the only reason indiana didnt beat the heat...he may not score the most or rebound the most but when hes on the floor he has an incredible presence...have you been watching the playoffs????

No, just no. I could go into the arguments, but honestly someone already has. Top 7 centers don't get amnestied, and then are not able to find jobs till midway through the next season. Anderson really fits on the finesse Miami Heat, because they have literally nobody else. But no way is Anderson smelling the top 10.

[Illuminaire]

Because my understanding is Grunfeld is the one who put these particular deal parameters on the table and the sell job is by our GM to our owner.

That would surprise no one here, lol. With one or two exceptions, the board consensus is that EG is a idiot used-car salesman and Leonsis is buying everything he's peddling.

The deal as you've laid it out is not a good one for the Wizards. The short term effects are somewhere between "meh" and "oh god", while the long term ones are strictly terrible barring truly unfortunate draft luck. So, pretty much no one here is interested in understanding it. What's the point in hearing justifications for a sh** sandwich?

[nuposse04]

Because my understanding is Grunfeld is the one who put these particular deal parameters on the table and the sell job is by our GM to our owner.

Grundfeld is more (Please Use More Appropriate Word) than I thought then.

Look, I understand your mental well being is troubled by all this trade talk. But at the end of the day, these discussions are/have taken place. Whether something goes down or doesn't remains to be seen. And usually when things get this public, it means the deal is already dead.

I'd buy you a beer if that was true but until then I'm on edge.

I'm simply coming in peace trying to give you insight on what is going on our front office, a front office by the way where Grunfeld worked as our GM for five years.

And those are 5 years I wouldn't wish upon any franchise...

[sfam]

And why should we have to care about the mental well being of your owner regarding the deal?

Because my understanding is Grunfeld is the one who put these particular deal parameters on the table and the sell job is by our GM to our owner.

Look, I understand your mental well being is troubled by all this trade talk. But at the end of the day, these discussions are/have taken place. Whether something goes down or doesn't remains to be seen. And usually when things get this public, it means the deal is already dead.

I'm simply coming in peace trying to give you insight on what is going on our front office, a front office by the way where Grunfeld worked as our GM for five years.

I really appreciate you sharing your insight. By all accounts you've got real cred at finding out what's happening. And its not exactly shocking that Grunfeld is exhibiting short term thinking because most of us here think he should have been gone years ago, and most likely will when his contract runs up at the end of the year. Grunfeld getting the team to the #6 spot or so in the playoffs next year may save his job.

But this doesn't mean the deal makes sense for the long term chances of the Wizards getting a championship. Grunfeld may go for it, but it doesn't mean its a good decision. I certainly hope Ted puts his foot down and passes on it. Ted has said he wants to build through the draft - here's his opportunity to show it.

[montestewart]

Hes an older klay thompson...and we would trade tht 3rd pick in a heart beat for klay....miami had birdman, hes a top 7 center like it or nt And miami is miami...everyone except paul george Was embaressed by them...
porter may be the nxt ummm luol deng at best...but how hard is that to come by??...look at jimmy butler, look at iman shumpert...sound exactly lik what people want porter to be...

Ersan had the 4th best 3pt % this yr...2nd last yr

Our development team suck...especially for forwards...
I could understand if we were drafting oladipo, but other than him theres no game changer in this draft with a good acl...

Ersan can change our team...everytime he subs the opp will have to make adjustments...I would even like to see him an vesley at sf and pf combo...

Wow seriously? Chris Anderson as a top 7 center is perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Dwight
Duncan
Gasol
Lopez
Horford
Noah
Hibbert
Monroe
Cousins
Jefferson
Sanders

The list goes on and on.

And out of all those listed which ones are not part of a pf/c combo??

By that question, I assume you are retracting your original unqualified statement: "miami had birdman, hes a top 7 center like it or nt"

[deneem4]

Wow seriously? Chris Anderson as a top 7 center is perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Dwight
Duncan
Gasol
Lopez
Horford
Noah
Hibbert
Monroe
Cousins
Jefferson
Sanders

The list goes on and on.

And out of all those listed which ones are not part of a pf/c combo??

By that question, I assume you are retracting your original unqualified statement: "miami had birdman, hes a top 7 center like it or nt"

No im actually disqualifying some of your centers

explain how dwight is the best center with no sort of shot
He dominates the paint, his presence is felt
Alot of your centers listed dont do tht

[doclinkin]

Maybe I watched a different playoff series than you, but I don't remember LRMAM giving LeBron too much trouble in the playoffs. Am I wrong about that?

What is LRMAM?

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. Apparently the longer Ricky Ticky Tavi name was taken.

Since he's a prince shouldn't it be HRHLRMAM ?

[paulpressey25]

Grunfeld getting the team to the #6 spot or so in the playoffs next year may save his job.

This is where I think you guys are selling yourselves and Moute and Udoh short.

If you make this deal, I think the Wizards arguably position themselves to be in the mix for somewhere in that Knicks, Bulls, Pacers scrum. Then the question is do you get anything out of pick #15 or not?

One thing I enjoy about the Wiz board is that you've got a lot of long time posters out there who can at least comprehend the thinking of the guys running these teams, even if they don't agree with it. Sure, everyone on both our boards believes in the power of the high draft pick. But for GM's and coaches who want to win in order to get their next paycheck, they'd prefer to take the sure thing in the form of veterans.

I know a bunch of your posters want to take the lower percentage chance that you draft the next Harden here. I get that and I don't want to stop their dream. But again the guys whose paychecks rely on getting to 50-wins will explore how to get there faster. They don't want to be the guy who was in charge of the failed four year tank job.

For all the possibility the guy picked at #3 is the next James Harden, there have been a ton of Mike Dunleavy/Jay Williams/Mayo/Beasley/Evan Turner types in those high picks as well. We've picked at #14 and #15 the last couple years and done all-right with Henson and Sanders, although the jury is out there. The higher ranked guys like Thomas Robinson, Brandon Knight, Tristan Thompson, etc haven't fared as well.

[montestewart]

No im actually disqualifying some of your centers

explain how dwight is the best center with no sort of shot
He dominates the paint, his presence is felt
Alot of your centers listed dont do tht

I don't think I'm being too presumptuous in speaking for the other 7 billion people on the planet when I say that no one has the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Which six centers would need to die tonight in tragic yet unrelated kitchen accidents in order to make Chris Andersen the unquestioned best center in the NBA, like it or not?

[closg00]

And why should we have to care about the mental well being of your owner regarding the deal?

Because my understanding is Grunfeld is the one who put these particular deal parameters on the table and the sell job is by our GM to our owner.

Look, I understand your mental well being is troubled by all this trade talk. But at the end of the day, these discussions are/have taken place. Whether something goes down or doesn't remains to be seen. And usually when things get this public, it means the deal is already dead.

I'm simply coming in peace trying to give you insight on what is going on our front office, a front office by the way where Grunfeld worked as our GM for five years.

All the more reason for the board to be sh*tting in their pants, God knows what other kind of deals Ernie is pitching out-there.

The guys on this board know that Ernie is at his worst when he is desperate to make a deal. I wonder which GM is going to have their way with Ernie on draft night?

[deneem4]

No im actually disqualifying some of your centers

explain how dwight is the best center with no sort of shot
He dominates the paint, his presence is felt
Alot of your centers listed dont do tht

I don't think I'm being too presumptuous in speaking for the other 7 billion people on the planet when I say that no one has the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Which six centers would need to die tonight in tragic yet unrelated kitchen accidents in order to make Chris Andersen the unquestioned best center in the NBA, like it or not?

Jus remember who had the biggest impact on the bulls and pacers...and who point short of having a better per tham lebronn in these playpffs

[montestewart]

No im actually disqualifying some of your centers

explain how dwight is the best center with no sort of shot
He dominates the paint, his presence is felt
Alot of your centers listed dont do tht

I don't think I'm being too presumptuous in speaking for the other 7 billion people on the planet when I say that no one has the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Which six centers would need to die tonight in tragic yet unrelated kitchen accidents in order to make Chris Andersen the unquestioned best center in the NBA, like it or not?

Jus remember who had the biggest impact on the bulls and pacers...and who point short of having a better per tham lebronn in these playpffs

Thanks for the heads up, because none of us watch the playoffs. We didn't even know he was playing.

Questions:
1) When you say "top 7," are you saying there are six that are better than Andersen, or up to six?
2) Who are the centers that might be better than Andersen?
3) If Lebron has a bad game, and Andersen has a good game, might that push Birdman past LeBJ and make him the unquestioned best player on the Heat?
4) As Andersen is clearly the 2nd best player on the Heat, who is most responsible for him not getting the minutes he deserves: Spoelstra, James, Wade, Riley, or some other force (like maybe Andersen's lazy or something)?
5) What?