Offers for Gasol?

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tviper
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#261 » by tviper » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:10 pm

Leto wrote:I disagree that Boozer is a bad fit--which is what you're suggesting. He fits better with Howard than Howard does with Gasol. Furthermore, this package nets you Ariza, who is basically Deng-lite, and an athletic PG in Teague. As I mentioned, you are not going to get a better package for Gasol. This deal solves at least one more of your problems at the wing position and gets you a better fit at PF.

As to the "2014 plan", this trade assumes you don't have a 2014 plan. If you have a 2014 plan, then there is no reason to trade Gasol because he's already a huge expiring. Also, there's no reason for this thread if all you want is expiring contracts because Gasol is already an expiring contract.


I was suggesting that Boozer is not an ideal PF for MDA's system. I don't believe any reasonable person can disagree with this. Ideal fit would be a stretch 4. Boozer cannot reasonably be considered a stretch 4 (does he even attempt 3 pointers?). While Ariza would indeed be a good fit IMO, the cost of Boozer's cap eating contract in 2014 outweighs the Ariza benefit.

Re: the 2014 plan, your assumption that LAL doesn't have such a plan defeats the entire purpose of the trade board (TB), which (I thought) was to propose potential trades and have them critiqued. In fact, LAL DOES have a 2014 plan, as evidenced by all of the contracts (except Nash and probably D12) expiring in 2013. So wishing it away to propose a trade that is never going to happen is a waste of time. The reason to trade Gasol is because he is not an ideal fit next to D12, his salary is prohibitive when you add in the corresponding luxury tax payment, and he still has considerable value in the league as a skilled low post player (opinions of the TB notwithstanding). Re: expiring contracts, yes LAL will be looking for expiring contracts IN ADDITION to trading into cap space to reduce the luxury tax hit, as well as (possibily) draft pick(s).
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#262 » by Leto » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:30 pm

tviper wrote:
Leto wrote:I disagree that Boozer is a bad fit--which is what you're suggesting. He fits better with Howard than Howard does with Gasol. Furthermore, this package nets you Ariza, who is basically Deng-lite, and an athletic PG in Teague. As I mentioned, you are not going to get a better package for Gasol. This deal solves at least one more of your problems at the wing position and gets you a better fit at PF.

As to the "2014 plan", this trade assumes you don't have a 2014 plan. If you have a 2014 plan, then there is no reason to trade Gasol because he's already a huge expiring. Also, there's no reason for this thread if all you want is expiring contracts because Gasol is already an expiring contract.


I was suggesting that Boozer is not an ideal PF for MDA's system. I don't believe any reasonable person can disagree with this. Ideal fit would be a stretch 4. Boozer cannot reasonably be considered a stretch 4 (does he even attempt 3 pointers?). While Ariza would indeed be a good fit IMO, the cost of Boozer's cap eating contract in 2014 outweighs the Ariza benefit.

Re: the 2014 plan, your assumption that LAL doesn't have such a plan defeats the entire purpose of the trade board (TB), which (I thought) was to propose potential trades and have them critiqued. In fact, LAL DOES have a 2014 plan, as evidenced by all of the contracts (except Nash and probably D12) expiring in 2013. So wishing it away to propose a trade that is never going to happen is a waste of time. The reason to trade Gasol is because he is not an ideal fit next to D12, his salary is prohibitive when you add in the corresponding luxury tax payment, and he still has considerable value in the league as a skilled low post player (opinions of the TB notwithstanding). Re: expiring contracts, yes LAL will be looking for expiring contracts IN ADDITION to trading into cap space to reduce the luxury tax hit, as well as (possibily) draft pick(s).


I think its fair for you to say you'd rather have instant salary relief, expiring contracts and a draft pick. It follows along the "2014 plan." I just don't think that's the direction the Lakers are going to go. But, we'll see. Nevertheless, I think my trade proposal is fair even if you'd rather go a different direction.
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#263 » by KuruptedCav » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:46 am

If you want instant salary relief, then you trade Pau to Cle for the #19 and a TPE.

And then you give away 2014 space away by sending the TPE to the Hawks with the rights to the #19 pick and Lakers 2019 1st for a signed Josh Smith.

Hawks do it to get something for nothing after they move on from their Howard/Paul pipe dream. Comparable to the deals TOR & CLE got for Bosh and James respectively.

Lakers do it because it accelerates their rebuild and let's them continue flipping assets rather than tearing it down ($19 million worth of expirings ahead of the 2014 feeding frenzy), and keeps them an attractive destination for players pushing their way to a destination.
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#264 » by Trader_Joe » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:56 am

I don't see Gasol being traded and if he is I agree that it has to be for a fellow expiring or at worst minimal contracts that run past next season...like say...

Hump
Brooks
Teletovic

Hump is best as a transition player and would do well with Nash for 1 year.
Teletovic was the intended stretch PF to pair with Dwight by the Nets
Brooks could learn from the best.

:wink:
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#265 » by Wolves_Nation » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:22 am

GhostX wrote:draft night


Barea
Dwill
Roy
Ridnour
#9

for

Gasol

Awful for the Wolves. Besides, Roy was cut, his contract is gone.
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#266 » by warren weel im » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:10 am

Wolves_Nation wrote:
GhostX wrote:draft night


Barea
Dwill
Roy
Ridnour
#9

for

Gasol

Awful for the Wolves. Besides, Roy was cut, his contract is gone.


I know the considerable difference in TB opinion vs actual valuation.

Derrick Williams
Luke Ridnour
future 1st* or the #9 overall

--4--

Pau
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#267 » by Wolves_Nation » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:53 am

warren weel im wrote:
Wolves_Nation wrote:
GhostX wrote:draft night


Barea
Dwill
Roy
Ridnour
#9

for

Gasol

Awful for the Wolves. Besides, Roy was cut, his contract is gone.


I know the considerable difference in TB opinion vs actual valuation.

Derrick Williams
Luke Ridnour
future 1st* or the #9 overall

--4--

Pau


Pau just isn't worth Williams, who would go in the top 4 of this draft, and is starting to reach his potential (18 and 8 after all star break) and another lotto pick. If they Wolves traded for Gasol, it would mean no more Pek either. Trading for Pau would mean no Williams, pick, Luke, AND Pek.
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#268 » by tviper » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:11 pm

Agree that the trade, if it were to happen at all, would be a replacement for Pek (meaning after the draft so would have to be the future first instead of #9). From LAL perspective, DWilliams+Luke+Future first isn't enough anyway. DWilliams doesn't have nearly this type of value IMO, and not sure why the Lakers need another PG with Nash and Blake returning (and possibly Morris as well).
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#269 » by Prospect Dong » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:11 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:If you want instant salary relief, then you trade Pau to Cle for the #19 and a TPE.

And then you give away 2014 space away by sending the TPE to the Hawks with the rights to the #19 pick and Lakers 2019 1st for a signed Josh Smith.

Hawks do it to get something for nothing after they move on from their Howard/Paul pipe dream. Comparable to the deals TOR & CLE got for Bosh and James respectively.

Lakers do it because it accelerates their rebuild and let's them continue flipping assets rather than tearing it down ($19 million worth of expirings ahead of the 2014 feeding frenzy), and keeps them an attractive destination for players pushing their way to a destination.


The key difference is that Bosh and James were both capable of being signed with Miami's cap space - if their teams didn't play ball James and Bosh could credibly threaten to sign with the heat for nothing. It's much, much harder to force a s&t using an exception where the current team has to be forced to play ball. Unless the hawks are just done with Josh Smith (cf the Suns and Nash, but even then the lakers had to add more value than you're proposing here).
"shooting free throws in the ACC is much tougher"

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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#270 » by Prospect Dong » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:16 pm

warren weel im wrote:
Wolves_Nation wrote:
GhostX wrote:draft night


Barea
Dwill
Roy
Ridnour
#9

for

Gasol

Awful for the Wolves. Besides, Roy was cut, his contract is gone.


I know the considerable difference in TB opinion vs actual valuation.

Derrick Williams
Luke Ridnour
future 1st* or the #9 overall

--4--

Pau


I've said this a bunch of times, but here we go again:

Look at the value LA gave up to get Pau, back when he was just entering his prime, instead of just leaving it, and back when he cost a lot less as a proportion of the salary cap and under a more friendly CBA. LA gave up zero lottery picks, zero instant savings, useless expirings, two very late firsts and two recent picks who had maybe mid-teens value at the time the trade went down - and they were able to demand a high second back. If that was anything resembling fair value for a gimpy, disgruntled-seeming Gasol then the older, costlier version you have today gets you much, much less.
"shooting free throws in the ACC is much tougher"

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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#271 » by Leto » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:47 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:If you want instant salary relief, then you trade Pau to Cle for the #19 and a TPE.

And then you give away 2014 space away by sending the TPE to the Hawks with the rights to the #19 pick and Lakers 2019 1st for a signed Josh Smith.

Hawks do it to get something for nothing after they move on from their Howard/Paul pipe dream. Comparable to the deals TOR & CLE got for Bosh and James respectively.

Lakers do it because it accelerates their rebuild and let's them continue flipping assets rather than tearing it down ($19 million worth of expirings ahead of the 2014 feeding frenzy), and keeps them an attractive destination for players pushing their way to a destination.


Unless they renounce the rights to Howard or amnesty Kobe, the Lakers won't be able to receive a player in a S&T.
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#272 » by shrink » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:53 pm

tviper wrote:
warren weel im wrote:I know the considerable difference in TB opinion vs actual valuation.

Derrick Williams
Luke Ridnour
future 1st* or the #9 overall

--4--

Pau


From LAL perspective, DWilliams+Luke+Future first isn't enough anyway.


I'm not sure there is this big a "difference of opinion" on Gasol's value if you take away the Laker fans.

Does any non-Laker fan actually think Gasol at $19.6 mil, would bring back lottery picks/1sts, plus Williams plus Ridnour (exp), plus about $10 mil in cap space?

Are there any fans from the 29 other teams that would say, "No, not enough for the Lakers?"

If this is just a discussion among Laker fans where the other 29 teams opinions are ignored, then perhaps you'd get more enjoyment from this thread if it was solely on the Laker board? One guy could make a huge offer the other team would never accept, saying, "Gasol is amazing!" and the next can ask for more, saying, "No, he's more amazing than that!"
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#273 » by lelelazza8 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:44 pm

LAKERS
trade Gasol, J.Hill and Nash...
get Bargnani, Ilyasova, L.Fields and 9th pick (CJ McCallum?)...

T'WOLVES
trade D.Williams, Barea and 9th pick...
get J.Hill, T.Ross, Kleiza and future Bucks 1st round pick...

BUCKS
trade Ilyasova and future 1st round pick (protected)...
get D.Williams and Barea...

RAPTORS
trade Bargnani, Ross and Fields...
get Gasol and Nash...
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#274 » by Wolves_Nation » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:35 pm

lelelazza8 wrote:LAKERS
trade Gasol, J.Hill and Nash...
get Bargnani, Ilyasova, L.Fields and 9th pick (CJ McCallum?)...

T'WOLVES
trade D.Williams, Barea and 9th pick...
get J.Hill, T.Ross, Kleiza and future Bucks 1st round pick...

BUCKS
trade Ilyasova and future 1st round pick (protected)...
get D.Williams and Barea...

RAPTORS
trade Bargnani, Ross and Fields...
get Gasol and Nash...


Unprotect the Bucks pick next year, and I'd be interested.
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#275 » by andyhei » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:48 pm

What I think is that a 3-way trade among Wolves, Bobcats, and Lakers:

Lakers out: Gasol & expiring contract of Blake or Duhon

Lakers in: 4th overall pick & the bad contracts of Ben Gordon and Tyrus Thomas

Wolves out: Derrick Williams, 9th overall pick, Luke Ridnour, and those expiring contracts ( Stiemsma, Cunningham, Galebale, Chris Johnson...etc)

Wolves in: Gasol


Bobcats out: 4th overall pick, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Gordon

Bobocats in: Derrick Williams, 9th overall, Steve Blake or Duhon

As a lakers fan, I think this is the trade that could get a player who can improve our athleticism and backcourt defense

Not sure if Timberwoles would like to do this trade, it just depends on how Flip Saunders value Pekovic and Pau. But, ideally, if Pekovic is willing to cooperate with the Wolves, they can sign&trade him to upgrade their shooting guard.

For the Bobcats, they unload Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon, and still get a talented prospect and a lottery pick back

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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#276 » by LApwnd » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:51 am

andyhei wrote:What I think is that a 3-way trade among Wolves, Bobcats, and Lakers:

Lakers out: Gasol & expiring contract of Blake or Duhon

Lakers in: 4th overall pick & the bad contracts of Ben Gordon and Tyrus Thomas

Wolves out: Derrick Williams, 9th overall pick, Luke Ridnour, and those expiring contracts ( Stiemsma, Cunningham, Galebale, Chris Johnson...etc)

Wolves in: Gasol


Bobcats out: 4th overall pick, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Gordon

Bobocats in: Derrick Williams, 9th overall, Steve Blake or Duhon

As a lakers fan, I think this is the trade that could get a player who can improve our athleticism and backcourt defense

Not sure if Timberwoles would like to do this trade, it just depends on how Flip Saunders value Pekovic and Pau. But, ideally, if Pekovic is willing to cooperate with the Wolves, they can sign&trade him to upgrade their shooting guard.

For the Bobcats, they unload Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon, and still get a talented prospect and a lottery pick back

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I'd do this deal if LA gets the 9th pick as well, Thomas at this point is deadweight and waste of $8mill.
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#277 » by [RCG] » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:55 am

An aging, mis-utilized Gasol is a waste of about $10-12 mil.
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#278 » by LApwnd » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:56 am

[RCG] wrote:An aging, mis-utilized Gasol is a waste of about $10-12 mil.


sure but he still better then the guy you're about to overpay this summer.
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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#279 » by andyhei » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:07 am

I don't think Bobcats would give up 4th pick just for unloading Ben Gordon and Tyrus Thomas, and only get D. Williams for return

Ben Gordon is an expiring contract as well, so I don't think his contract will hurt Lakers' flexibility in the future

And Tyrus Thomas might take a significant portion of Lakers' cap space in next summer, but Lakers will still be able to keep the team salary more than 10m of the cap space if Kobe and Dwight is still on the team at that time.

To me, Gasol is no longer in the futue plan, so if we can get a top five pick prospect just for giving up part of 2014's cap space, it would be a good return for lakers

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Re: Offers for Gasol? 

Post#280 » by shagadelic45 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:15 am

m not sure there is this big a "difference of opinion" on Gasol's value if you take away the Laker fans.

Does any non-Laker fan actually think Gasol at $19.6 mil, would bring back lottery picks/1sts, plus Williams plus Ridnour (exp), plus about $10 mil in cap space?

Are there any fans from the 29 other teams that would say, "No, not enough for the Lakers?"

If this is just a discussion among Laker fans where the other 29 teams opinions are ignored, then perhaps you'd get more enjoyment from this thread if it was solely on the Laker board? One guy could make a huge offer the other team would never accept, saying, "Gasol is amazing!" and the next can ask for more, saying, "No, he's more amazing than that!"



i agree with shrink. as a laker fan, we are not getting lotto picks plus multiple useful players. capsapace and maybe a late #1 or a couple seconds is fair and i would be happy with

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