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#3 for Ilyasova being discussed

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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#201 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:19 pm

fishercob wrote:
nate33 wrote:
fishercob wrote:
Draft Porter at 3.

Trade #38 + '14 first, lotto protected for #13. Draft Adams

S&T Ariza for Millsap.

Okafor/Nene/Adams
Millsap ($10M)/Nene
Porter/Webster
Beal/Webster
Johnny Ballgame

If we declined Vesely and SIngleton, we'd have more than MLE money next summer, yes?

That's a great plan! It's pretty simple and it sets us up well for the long term. I also wonder if Utah might prefer Vesely plus Singleton rather than Ariza. Next year is a rebuilding year for them so they might prefer Vesely's "potential" to the 1-year rental of Ariza. If Utah goes with Favors and Kanter, they're still lacking in a mobile weakside defender - something that Vesely could theoretically become.


Thank you!

I can see Utah fans taking a shine to Vesely; they'll squint and convince themselves that SLC can bring out his inner Kirilenko.

Ariza v. Vesely doesn't matter for them cap wise because they're under it, right?

Could Ariza get any minutes if Web, Porter, Millsap were all healthy and playing their normal roles? I can see him really not wanting to be here under those circumstances.

There are 96 minutes at SG and SF. Beal gets 33, Webster gets 25, Porter gets 20. That's 78 minutes, leaving 18 for Ariza plus another 5-10 at PF. Also, people get hurt. Realistically, I would think Porter would get more like 10 minutes early on when everyone was healthy, and then his role would expand once injuries set in.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#202 » by fishercob » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:36 pm

Nate, can you give me a quick and dirty of our cap situation next summer assuming this plan and 3/$30M +/- for Millsap?
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#203 » by fishercob » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:48 pm

nate33 wrote:
fishercob wrote:
nate33 wrote:That's a great plan! It's pretty simple and it sets us up well for the long term. I also wonder if Utah might prefer Vesely plus Singleton rather than Ariza. Next year is a rebuilding year for them so they might prefer Vesely's "potential" to the 1-year rental of Ariza. If Utah goes with Favors and Kanter, they're still lacking in a mobile weakside defender - something that Vesely could theoretically become.


Thank you!

I can see Utah fans taking a shine to Vesely; they'll squint and convince themselves that SLC can bring out his inner Kirilenko.

Ariza v. Vesely doesn't matter for them cap wise because they're under it, right?

Could Ariza get any minutes if Web, Porter, Millsap were all healthy and playing their normal roles? I can see him really not wanting to be here under those circumstances.

There are 96 minutes at SG and SF. Beal gets 33, Webster gets 25, Porter gets 20. That's 78 minutes, leaving 18 for Ariza plus another 5-10 at PF. Also, people get hurt. Realistically, I would think Porter would get more like 10 minutes early on when everyone was healthy, and then his role would expand once injuries set in.


I hear you on injuries. It would be a "good problem," but it would provide some challenges for Coach Witt -- especially if we're finding time for Adams to get on the court with either Nene or Millsap at the 4.

But what about trading Ariza to Denver for Old Man Andre Miller (OMAM) -- who played 82 games and 26 mpg at altitude in Denver (unreal). Denver gets out of the final year of OMAM's deal and gets a short term replacement for Igoudala (while Gallinari heals up), and opens minutes for Evan Fournier behind Lawson. Karl's insistence on playing Miller over Fournier is reportedly part of what got him canned.

The final year of OMAM's deal is only $2M guaranteed. Can we do any better as a third guard and as a savvy, professional vet?

Okafor/Nene/Adams
Millsap/Nene
Porter/Webster
Beal/Webster
Wall/OMAM

Let's go!

Edit: The Fish Plan leaves us a little tight to the lux tax for the upcoming season (plenty of room next year though). We'd have to include Seraphin, Booker or Singleton in the Millsap deal to have room for 3 vet minimum guys, but I figure that's doable.

That roster is great, but needs more 3 point shooters. Maybe with one of our vet minimum slots. Or maybe we don't do the OMAM deal.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#204 » by Deivy202 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:53 am

RandyBreuer wrote:
jtrinaldi wrote:You guys really under-estimate how good ERS is. He is better than Porter will ever be. Have fun with the 3 pick in one of the worst years to have a good pick in the draft.


You have embarrassed yourself and the Bucks board. Wizards fans I apologize and please don't hold him against logical Bucks fans.

He is sorta right tho this is one of the worst drafts in a while.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#205 » by linguini8 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:08 am

fishercob wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:firshercob, I completely understand your perspective. If you're picking at the top of the draft, you want to hit a home run and land a franchise changing player. Getting a "very good" player as opposed to a potential seven time all-star isn't the most sexy thing on the planet.

But I don't think you can simply dismiss quality of the class. Not all #3 picks are going to be equal. One year you could be looking at Carmelo Anthony, the next you could be looking at Adam Morrison. I'm certainly no professional scout; I'm simply going by what I see and what professionals happen to think. The overwhelming consensus is this is a draft without franchise changing talent at the top, but solid contributors throughout the first round.

Now all things being equal you you'd rather be picking #3 than #8 or #15. Sure, there will be guys taken in the teens that end up having better careers than someone taken in the top five. But you at least would like to have a chance at taking the guy instead of being left with guys that were passed on. But again, we're talking about a group of players that few envision making All-Star games, and that's if they reach their absolute high-end projections.

I know you know all this.

But again, here's my perspective, both regarding player value and my interests as a Bucks fan:

For one, I'm always going to favor bigs and point guards over wings. In my opinion, a wing needs to be special to help his team win more than a good point guard or big. Point guards have the ball in their hands more often, bigs represent the last line of defense to the hoop and can present interesting matchup problems. If I'm gonna take a wing over a big, they need to be able to compensate for what they don't offer elsewhere on the court.

Unfortunately, I think this draft is lacking in high impact bigs at the top (though I think if reports of Zeller being a true stretch-four are legit he goes to the top of my ranking, and I think Len has some Bogut in him), and I think it'll be tough for any of the PGs to break into the top 15 in the NBA. I do think there are some nice wings. McLemore has got some VC in his game, and like Carter I think he's got a chance to be much better as a pro. But his inconsistency would scare me quite a bit. I also like to see more assertiveness as opposed to a guy who'll sit back and let others get theirs.

My other point is with regards to the Bucks: I want this team to lose. I have for the better part of a decade. There are some that believe that the Bucks could surround Henson, Sanders and Ilyasova with **** players and they'd still be able to tank. This is completely illogical because they had **** players around them this season and managed to back-door their way into the playoffs. They were winning games because of Sanders and Ilyasova, and at the expense of terrible guard play. It's difficult envisioning a scenario where those three players are retained and managing to be worse in '13-'14.

So from my perspective the Bucks could do one of three things:

1 - Keep the frontline, take a guy at #15 that probably doesn't contribute much, sign some B and C level free agents and make a push for .500.

2 - Dump Ilyasova (for the #3 in this example), draft a wing or PG, win fewer games but too many to bottom out.

3 - Go for an all-out tank. Trade the two most productive players, the ones responsible for the wins the last two years, and go young for a couple years. I don't see Noel ever having the impact of Sanders. I don't think a wing at #3 ever has the impact Ilyasova will provide during the duration of his contract. The Bucks would be bad.

Of those three choices, I easily come down on #3. The Bucks haven't been relevant in a decade as they've tried to accomplish option #1. They're long overdue for a change in strategy. But that means making sacrifices in talent and wins. I'm fine with it, despite being a clear admirer of what Ilyasova and Sanders do on the court.

Lastly, this gets back to numbers, but I'm a fan of WS/48. No catch all stat is perfect, but I do like it because it cuts through the typical box score bulls*** (PPGZ AND REBOUNDZZ!1!) and measures what might not be evident. Generally the best performers by this metric are the same ones who all would agree are the best in the NBA.

Over the last two seasons the top ten players in WS/48 are:

1 - LeBron
2 - Paul
3 - Durant
4 - Harden
5 - Chandler

The rest of the top twenty are littered with the usual names like Parker, Wade, Gasol, Duncan, Curry and Anthony. It's not a perfect stat, but I think it's a good one.

Of players that logged more than 27 minutes a game over the last two seasons, Ilyasova comes in at #20, right behind Chris Bosh. If you removed his disastrous start to this season when he was getting dicked around by Skiles, he'd be just outside of the top ten players in the league. He's been that kind of producer.

Now, do I think he's a top twenty player in the league? No. I do think you could come to understand why he's ranked that high on the list once you factor in all he does and the efficiency to which he performs. He's an incredibly unique player in the NBA right now, and he hasn't even peaked.

So, while some look at the basic box score stats and season averages and think he's an average role player (or worse, a contract that should be unloaded. Christ.) a closer look reveals a guy that's going to help tremendously with wins.

Unfortunately for the Bucks, they need losses a lot more right now.


I feel your pain; the Bucks bear a striking resemblance to the Abe Pollin Wizards. They are ill-suited to compete in today's NBA and strive for and celebrate mediocrity. My sincere hope for Bucks fans like my buddy Ruzious is that once Kohl (who, like Pollin, may be a lovely man and a hell of a human being) passes on, a better owner takes hold that can inject some life into the franchise.

I agree that Milwaukee's best course is to tank hard. If I ran that team I'd keep Sanders and Henson and turn everything else on that roster into assets; trade Ilyasova, S&T Jennings, let Ellis walk if I couldn't S&T him -- hoard picks for 2014 and '15 and maintain maximum cap flexibility. Ownership can sell a fanbase on tanking (they did it here, even though the execution was pretty flawed) a lot more than they can sell them on "let's get into the playoffs and see what happens!"

I agree with you characterization about the importance of defensive bigs. This is one small ding on Ilyasova for me. While he can be a piece to a defensive puzzle, he's not going to anchor a defense and he's not going to lock up any great offensive players. I also disagree with your characterization of this draft; there are many more center prospects than usual with significant defensive upside -- Noel, Len, Adams, Hobert, Noguiera, Dieng and Withey are all projected to be first round picks. Zeller and Olynyk are too, though they're projected as more offensive players (and part of why I'm not thriled with either as a prospect -- your bigs need to play great D).

Given where the likes of Sanders, Noah, Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Splitter, Kendrick Perkins, Deandre Jordan, McGee, etc were picked, I'm pretty confident that some of the bigs I listed are going to turn out to be good players. I'm hoping that the Wizards can use #38, #55 and another small asset to move into the late first to pick one of them. I don't believe we need to give up #3 to do so.


You just answered yours and everybody else's question as to why Milwaukee fans want to trade Ersan for a pick in what's considered a "crappy draft". We should be looking to rebuild, moving forward with Sanders and Henson. The most logical way to go about doing this, is trading our 2nd best player in Ersan Ilyasova who is on a very good contract, for whatever young asset or draft pick we can collect. Why is this? Because Ersan plays the same position as John Henson who our new coach and GM have been praising as the teams new building block along with Sanders. Ersan is a stud. He is the best shooting big man in the game. He's a 15/8 PF who hustles and always plays hard. He racks up a charge it seems like every game and he never takes a night off. He is not just a role player or a 4th option on a contender.

The trade makes sense for Washington if they're looking to win now and make the playoffs next year. I know you all love Okafor and think he alone is almost worth Ersan, but he's 30 years old, on the decline, $5mil more than Ersan, and won't be with the team after this season. Ersan has much more value than Okafor. If this trade is made you can easily move Nene to the 5 where he has spent plenty of time before. You get Udoh who no, isn't a big time player, but can play 20 minutes of great defense at the 4 or 5. LRMAM would split minutes with Ariza and is an elite wing defender, Durant has called him the leagues best defender in the past. Harp on him for this Miami series, but he was hurt all season and let's face it, Defending Miami when you play next to Jennings and Ellis can't be all that easy. The 15th pick will get you a solid backup PG for Wall moving forward. Schroeder or Larkin maybe.

Ersan gives you a starting 4 for the next 3 seasons(4 if you accept the team option). His style of play fits in perfectly with your young star backcourt of John Wall and Bradley Beal, both of whom will have to be paid soon. Which Ersan's contract allows you to do. He is a hustle guy who won't force you to change your team's identity. He will just add another dimension to it with his shooting.

13/14
Wall, Schroeder/Larkin
Beal, FA, 2nd round
Ariza, LRMAM
Ersan, Udoh
Nene, Seraphin

or

Wall, FA, 2nd rounder
Beal, Singleton
Porter, Ariza
Nene, Booker, Vesely
Okafor, Seraphin

I personally think Porter will bust hard and would choose the first lineup if I'm trying to win now. Not because I'm a Bucks fan. I just see him being a poor man's Tayshaun Prince at best. I think Bennett will bust as well.

At the end of the season you can use your FA money to re-sign Wall and Seraphin if you'd like. You'd have a core of Wall, Beal, Ersan, and Nene for the next 2 seasons. You take Udoh and Ariza's expiring contracts = 12 million and you go out and buy yourself a starting SF. Then you have Wall, Beal, SF, Ersan, Nene + LRMAM, Seraphin(if he's had for around 5 mil), Schroeder/Larkin, Plus two 2nd round picks and your 2014 pick. That's good enough for 4th-5th in the East if healthy.

14/15
Wall, Schroeder/Larkin
Beal, 2014 pick
10mil SF, LRMAM
Ersan, vet min FA, 2nd round pick
Nene, Seraphin

When the season is over, LRMAM's contract expires. There isn't much room to make change here unless Seraphin wasn't brought back and you had a cheaper vet instead. But by the end of the 15/16 season you have Nene Expiring and the option on Ersan. Potentially that SF you signed is expiring as well giving you at least $21, potentially $31 million to play with. Your team likely was 4th-5th in the East over the past two seasons so who knows what they would do.

Your team has options but I think this trade would end positively for you.

If you go the Porter route and he does in fact bust, then you are stuck trying to be the 7th or 8th seed while missing out on a stacked draft too. That might not actually matter since the only players on your team after this season would be Nene, a re-signed Wall, Beal, Porter, and a 2nd rounder. So you could go out in FA and put together a new team anyway.

Wall, 2014 draft pick
Beal, FA
FA, Porter
Nene, 2014 2nd rounder
FA, 2013 2nd rounder

You'd have roughly $17 million to spend on Free Agency to fill those spots. But the year would have been wasted.

If Porter doesn't bust and he turns out to be a stud then you made the right choice easily. But I just don't think he has the game to be anything substantial in the pros.

So with your roster situation and the optimism you have over your pick, I can understand why you aren't interested in the trade. But now you know that we aren't just pawning off Ersan because he's not a good player. Our FO might have an actual plan in place and it may even make sense for once. Being able to head into next season with Oladipo/McLemore, Henson, and Sanders would be huge for our franchise. It would also set us up for a top 10 pick, which next season is worth more than your current 3rd pick.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#206 » by TGW » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:31 pm

Have fun with Illy next season. The Wizards aren't doing that one.

By the way, some of these posts from Bucks fans are ridiculous.

Ersan is a stud. He is the best shooting big man in the game.


Uh really dude? There's someone by the name of Dirk Nowitski who probably shoots the ball a bit better than Ilyasova.

Makes you wonder why would you trade a "stud" for a pick in a crappy draft. :lol:
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#207 » by deneem4 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:50 pm

Illyasova is the closest thing to rhe next dirk in the nba...
Hes been playing with b jennings as his pg, look up his #s with jennings off the bench and redick running point, they blow everything else out the water
I like porter and bennet, but out of noel and oladipo theres no game changers
We debating over to MAYBE draft the next tyshaun prince over a poor man dirk...
players like porter are made everyday in good defensive systems
Webster can be porter with the right coaching...trade webster to bulls knicks or thunder watch he'll become a star
You good coach can make a porter.....
Players like ersan come every blue moon...
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#208 » by deneem4 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:52 pm

TGW wrote:Have fun with Illy next season. The Wizards aren't doing that one.

By the way, some of these posts from Bucks fans are ridiculous.

Ersan is a stud. He is the best shooting big man in the game.


Uh really dude? There's someone by the name of Dirk Nowitski who probably shoots the ball a bit better than Ilyasova.

Makes you wonder why would you trade a "stud" for a pick in a crappy draft. :lol:


And who's next after dirk?? At that size not name durant or carmelo, Putting up ##s
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#209 » by TGW » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:17 pm

After Dirk? Who really cares. There's only a handful of perimeter oriented bigs in the NBA now. Dirk, Ilyasova, Bargnani, Bonner, Jamison, Anderson, Novak...all of these guys except for Dirk are role players off the bench. A jumpshooting bigman is not a piece you build a core around (except when you have a special player like Dirk who can create his own offense). You certainly don't use a lottery pick to get one.

Bargnani is going to be amnestied in a few weeks. Just get him for pennies on the dollar. It would be better than wasting a draft pick on big man who can shoot threes.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#210 » by nate33 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:25 pm

Ilyasova is a solid player, but Bucks fans need to calm down. He's not THAT good. He's a catch-and-shoot role player who is slightly unique in that he has 3-point range and a PF's body. But let's not make it out like he's some kind of top tier offensive weapon. He can't create his own shot like Dirk, Melo or Bosh. He's not in the same zip code as those guys. He's merely another Ryan Anderson, or a Matt Bonner with better rebounding. Those types of players can help a team, but they're not superstars by any means.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#211 » by Dat2U » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:43 pm

TGW wrote:After Dirk? Who really cares. There's only a handful of perimeter oriented bigs in the NBA now. Dirk, Ilyasova, Bargnani, Bonner, Jamison, Anderson, Novak...all of these guys except for Dirk are role players off the bench. A jumpshooting bigman is not a piece you build a core around (except when you have a special player like Dirk who can create his own offense). You certainly don't use a lottery pick to get one.

Bargnani is going to be amnestied in a few weeks. Just get him for pennies on the dollar. It would be better than wasting a draft pick on big man who can shoot threes.


Ilyasova & Anderson are more than just guys off the bench. They are key contributors and guys that could start for a lot of teams. I wouldn't group them in with Bonner or Novak who are just specialists.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#212 » by deneem4 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:27 pm

But thats what the wizards need....3pt range pf body...who can hustle, rebound, run an effective pick and roll, and make good defensive decisions.
Our core is beal and wall...
Our 3rd option has to be a big man...
He played with the top 2 shoot 1st guards in the game, what you expect him to do??? Pass it back??
Ersan can put the ball on the floor, not exceptionally but he can do it...
Shabazz might fall into that 15 range or trade up with
A line up of wall, beal, webster, illysova, okafor is 60wins,
Sign cj watson
Bench of watson, shabazz, webster, ves, nene
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#213 » by nate33 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:32 pm

deneem4 wrote:A line up of wall, beal, webster, illysova, okafor is 60wins

Put the pipe down son. A lineup of Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene and Okafor would be perhaps a 45-win team assuming reasonable health (60+ games for Nene, 75+ games for everyone else). Adding Ilyasova doesn't add another 15 wins. The more wins you have, the harder each additional win is to come by. The original 45-win total already assumes that we beat all the trash teams plus a lot of the good teams at home.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#214 » by sfam » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:44 pm

Its funny, everyone on the bucks board calls this a "fair trade" that the bucks should do instantly, yet virtually nobody on the Wizards board find the trade closely palatable. That kinda tells me its strongly warped in the bucks' favor. Yeah, every one of the top draft picks may suck, but clearly fans of both teams want their team to be the one to find out.

Chances for an impact player come few and far between. You don't pass those up for a quality role player.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#215 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:09 pm

TGW wrote:Have fun with Illy next season. The Wizards aren't doing that one.

By the way, some of these posts from Bucks fans are ridiculous.

Ersan is a stud. He is the best shooting big man in the game.


Uh really dude? There's someone by the name of Dirk Nowitski who probably shoots the ball a bit better than Ilyasova.

Makes you wonder why would you trade a "stud" for a pick in a crappy draft. :lol:


If you're going off of the last two years, Ilyasova's been the better three point shooter.

The difference between the two players is Dirk is deadly from mid-range, while Ersan isn't. To his credit, he also doesn't take many mid-range shots, preferring to take the majority of his shots at the rim or behind the line. If you know anything about effective offense, you'll know those are the two best shots you can take.

And if you have to wonder why we would prefer to trade him, you obviously haven't read any of the helpful posts from myself or other Bucks fans in the last two pages: we want to get significantly worse.

Again, I don't expect a player taken in this draft to be better than Ilyasova. I don't think any of the prospects are going to be special. I think there will be a decent number of good starters but few, if any, all-stars. And Bucks fans are completely fine with getting worse.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#216 » by deneem4 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:11 pm

I meant 50...my bad...but

If wall plays like he finished the season and beal becomes eric gordon healthy, we have a chance at being a top team in the east

When wall came back wiz went 22 and 17...thats with beal nene ariza webster booker and even okafor missing games

Only miami and the warriors shot the 3 better since wall came back
Add another top 10 shooter in illysova

Okafor anchored our top 10 defense even with nene missing half the season and playing with reserves
Ersan is a guaranteed 15/8 in 27mins
Nene off the bench for pf/c is a guaranteed 15/7

On a needed basis we can run a
Wall/beal/ersan/nene/okafor lineup...which is a 60+ win team
How do you guard that?
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#217 » by sfam » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:13 pm

linguini8 wrote:I personally think Porter will bust hard and would choose the first lineup if I'm trying to win now. Not because I'm a Bucks fan. I just see him being a poor man's Tayshaun Prince at best. I think Bennett will bust as well.

You realize that you are one of the very very few who thinks Porter will Bust hard, don't you? The vast majority look at Porter as a low risk to be a solid starter but aren't as thrilled about his upside. If Porter just hits the low risk threshold, he will already equal Ersan, but on a better salary.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#218 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:17 pm

sfam wrote:
linguini8 wrote:I personally think Porter will bust hard and would choose the first lineup if I'm trying to win now. Not because I'm a Bucks fan. I just see him being a poor man's Tayshaun Prince at best. I think Bennett will bust as well.

You realize that you are one of the very very few who thinks Porter will Bust hard, don't you? The vast majority look at Porter as a low risk to be a solid starter but aren't as thrilled about his upside. If Porter just hits the low risk threshold, he will already equal Ersan, but on a better salary.


Do you think Porter is a 30 MPG, 17/9/.570 TS% kind of player? Not saying that with any kind of snark, I'm just curious to hear what you think he'll be in the pros.
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#219 » by montestewart » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:20 pm

deneem4 wrote:Ersan is a guaranteed 15/8 in 27mins
Nene off the bench for pf/c is a guaranteed 15/7

Ilyasova has never averaged 15 ppg in his career.
Nene has never averaged 15 ppg in his career.
Why are either of these outcomes guaranteed?
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Re: #3 for Ilyasova being discussed 

Post#220 » by TGW » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:28 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
sfam wrote:
linguini8 wrote:I personally think Porter will bust hard and would choose the first lineup if I'm trying to win now. Not because I'm a Bucks fan. I just see him being a poor man's Tayshaun Prince at best. I think Bennett will bust as well.

You realize that you are one of the very very few who thinks Porter will Bust hard, don't you? The vast majority look at Porter as a low risk to be a solid starter but aren't as thrilled about his upside. If Porter just hits the low risk threshold, he will already equal Ersan, but on a better salary.


Do you think Porter is a 30 MPG, 17/9/.570 TS% kind of player? Not saying that with any kind of snark, I'm just curious to hear what you think he'll be in the pros.


Porter will give you 16 and 7 in 35 mpg. But more importantly, he'll provide lockdown defense and boost the overall team defense. Ilyasova is a sieve defensively.

And to reply to your earlier response...if a team sees a player as a stud and a core player, he doesn't get traded...period. The whole "we're trying to tank" reasoning doesn't fly to me because teams don't trade players they view as a core piece. The Bucks prefer Henson to Illyasova, and that's probably because Henson has potential on both ends of the court, unlike Ilyasova. Well guess what...I prefer Porter for the very same reason.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.

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