#3 for Ilyasova being discussed

[nate33]

It's not difficult to see exactly what I'm saying. If the Wizards want to win over the next three or four years, I believe Ilyasova gives them the better chance than the #3 pick.

Ilyasova would certainly help the Wizards win next year, and probably over the next 2 years, but there's no reason at all to believe that it's a given that he'll help the Wizards 3 and 4 years down the road.

Us fans are a little nervous because we know EG's job is on the line and he may be desperate enough to make a move with only the next year or two in mind, but we understand that our true window of opportunity is realistically 3-5 years down the road. We want a player that will still be part of the core then.

[ReasonablySober]

It's not difficult to see exactly what I'm saying. If the Wizards want to win over the next three or four years, I believe Ilyasova gives them the better chance than the #3 pick.

Ilyasova would certainly help the Wizards win next year, and probably over the next 2 years, but there's no reason at all to believe that it's a given that he'll help the Wizards 3 and 4 years down the road.

Us fans are a little nervous because we know EG's job is on the line and he may be desperate enough to make a move with only the next year or two in mind, but we understand that our true window of opportunity is realistically 3-5 years down the road. We want a player that will still be part of the core then.

Totally understandable. That's how I'd want my team run. But it makes keeping Nene and Okafor around a bit odd. I'd be moving them for long term assets. But that gets back to the point about showing Wall you're committed to winning now, which is a dangerous thing to do for reasons you state.

[verbal8]

If the Wizards were trading from the 8th or 9th pick, I think Ilyasova would be a decent value for the pick.

However typically the drop-off from 3 to 15 is much larger than the value of the 8th or 9th pick.

Win-shares isn't great, but it gives a rough idea. Sean Elliot was a typical 3rd pick in terms of win-shares. Anthony Peeler is a typical example in terms of Win-Shares for the 15th pick. I don't think anyone would trade Sean Elliot for Ersan and Anthony Peeler. Rodney Rogers, Stacey Augmon straight up? No problem.

I wouldn't mind a double trade down with the Twolves, but not sure they are willing to part with the assets to move from 3 to 9. Adding both Derrick Williams and Ersan seems like a poor return.

Maybe. But I don't think you'll find any of the long term respected posters who realistically believe the Bucks will make the playoffs next season, barring some out of no-where vet signing or trade. It's accepted that trading Ersan for a pick will make the Bucks worse. Whether they follow it up with a win-now move is secondary to the discussion.

Do the Bucks have a preference for Okafor or Ariza?

If the plan for the Bucks is to tank. What about the 37th pick and the Wizards 2014 1st(top ten protected), rather than the 3rd pick. In addition to those assets, an expiring vet(Ariza or Okafor) could likely be traded for an additional pick to a play-off team in need of depth near the deadline.

It would certainly help with losing games, but that pick would be in the late teens at the lowest. It's just really terrible value.

For the record, I'd probably move Ilyasova for any pick in the top ten. I don't think a lot separates the top 11 or so players.

[linguini8]

Its funny, everyone on the bucks board calls this a "fair trade" that the bucks should do instantly, yet virtually nobody on the Wizards board find the trade closely palatable. That kinda tells me its strongly warped in the bucks' favor. Yeah, every one of the top draft picks may suck, but clearly fans of both teams want their team to be the one to find out.

Chances for an impact player come few and far between. You don't pass those up for a quality role player.

It's a fair trade given each team's situation. Washington wants to win now and make the playoffs. Milwaukee is ready to build around Henson/Sanders. You can re-read my post and the different scenarios, this is likely your best chance at being a middle playoff team over the next 3 seasons.

[nuposse04]

Okafor doesn't need long term money thrown at him and my guess is they'll give Nene one last year to prove he can stay relatively healthy before trying to do anything drastic. I seriously don't believe Ersan would be better then any of : Noel, Porter, Len, Bennett, Ola, Ben Mcl, Burke 4 years from now. Ersan is a solid player, but his game doesn't lead me to believe he is going to significantly improve upon anything he does right now.

My biggest gripe with him is that he won't be AS useful in the playoffs. Unless Wall truly becomes a top 5 player he won't have as many open looks when we need him most, and he's fairly pedestrian in doing anything off the dribble. If we could trade anything but the 3rd, Wall/Beal for him, sure..yeah I'm game...but anymore and we're curtailing our chances of building a contender. It would be a shortsighted move and a long term negative move for us.

[deneem4]

Ersan gets open as sneakily and as good as kyle korvee he dont need wall to get him open...he moves off the ball with the best

[Dat2U]

this is likely your best chance at being a middle playoff team over the next 3 seasons.

Oh, be still my beating heart!

[nuposse04]

Ersan gets open as sneakily and as good as kyle korvee he dont need wall to get him open...he moves off the ball with the best

With the best? Are you insane?

Also...He is streaky as streaky gets. Look at his game logs : http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3962/gamelog

March was his only relatively decent month. You don't trade a number 3 pick cause one guy was somewhat decent one month. His streakyness is something I take big issue with. Players worthy of top 3 picks shouldn't have that many single digit games.

If they want a '14 top 3 protected pick for him, then yah...they can have that but this trade as proposed shouldn't even be viewed as "plan B" for us, should be like Plan Q.

[linguini8]

It's not difficult to see exactly what I'm saying. If the Wizards want to win over the next three or four years, I believe Ilyasova gives them the better chance than the #3 pick.

Ilyasova would certainly help the Wizards win next year, and probably over the next 2 years, but there's no reason at all to believe that it's a given that he'll help the Wizards 3 and 4 years down the road.

Us fans are a little nervous because we know EG's job is on the line and he may be desperate enough to make a move with only the next year or two in mind, but we understand that our true window of opportunity is realistically 3-5 years down the road. We want a player that will still be part of the core then.

Totally understandable. That's how I'd want my team run. But it makes keeping Nene and Okafor around a bit odd. I'd be moving them for long term assets. But that gets back to the point about showing Wall you're committed to winning now, which is a dangerous thing to do for reasons you state.

That's why this move makes sense for your franchise. Ersan is 26 years old and locked up for 3 more years at 8mil per. He is young enough, cheap enough, and good enough to be a part of your core over the next 3-4 years. His contract allows you to go out and extend both Wall and Beal. It also allows you to sign another big time FA when Ariza/LRMAM/Singleton all expire. Wall, Beal, Big time SF FA, Ersan, Nene - could be a top 3 team in the East in 14/15. That would be your starting lineup for 2 seasons(14/15 and 15/16). When Nene expires, you can also decline the option on Ersan's contract giving you $21million to play with in FA. Wall, Beal, SF, 21 million + a winning culture has been established.

For Milwaukee, it means getting one of Oladipo/McLemore and moving forward next season with a lineup of: Vet min PG, Oladipo/McLemore, Vet SF, Henson, and Sanders. Hopefully bad enough to get a top 10 pick in next years stacked draft.

[nate33]

That's why this move makes sense for your franchise. Ersan is 26 years old and locked up for 3 more years at 8mil per. He is young enough, cheap enough, and good enough to be a part of your core over the next 3-4 years. His contract allows you to go out and extend both Wall and Beal. It also allows you to sign another big time FA when Ariza/LRMAM/Singleton all expire. Wall, Beal, Big time SF FA, Ersan, Nene - could be a top 3 team in the East in 14/15. That would be your starting lineup for 2 seasons(14/15 and 15/16). When Nene expires, you can also decline the option on Ersan's contract giving you $21million to play with in FA. Wall, Beal, SF, 21 million + a winning culture has been established.

All that is still true if we draft Porter. We'd have a good player locked up for 4 years (7 actually) who is young enough and cheap enough to be with the core, but for even longer. And we will have even more free agency money when Okafor and Ariza expire.

[montestewart]

His per-36 numbers for his career are 16/9.5/.535 TS%. And as I mentioned in the past, his PER-36 actually got better in the last two years when his minutes went up.

I know he's good, and I looked at his game logs and monthly stats, and I definitely see the improvement. Throughout his career, his numbers have tended to go up as the season progresses. Since I'm not a veteran Ilyasova watcher, it's hard for me to tell whether his improved play is a cause or an effect of his additional minutes, but lacking that information, I'm not inclined to dismiss the rest of his career. Value-wise, I don't think it's necessarily a bad trade, but not for the Wizards right now. I'd rather have the pick for the long term potential.

But it makes keeping Nene and Okafor around a bit odd. I'd be moving them for long term assets.

If only they would listen. Nene and Okafor are solid players, but because of their price tags, many around here criticized the acquisitions in the first place.

Look up 3pt for our shooters when john wall is on the floor...please and tell me there is no john wall effect

Ersan gets open as sneakily and as good as kyle korvee he dont need wall to get him open...he moves off the ball with the best

So, will John Wall make him better, or won't he? And don't forget, the team had no other adequate PG last year, so the "John Wall effect" may be somewhat distorted.

[nate33]

Totally understandable. That's how I'd want my team run. But it makes keeping Nene and Okafor around a bit odd. I'd be moving them for long term assets. But that gets back to the point about showing Wall you're committed to winning now, which is a dangerous thing to do for reasons you state.

We tried the All Youth approach with Blatche and McGee and it got us nowhere. Management has decided that we have enough young talent and it's time to add some veteran help to teach the youngsters how to win. I thought the move was premature at the time (particularly the Okafor move, I didn't mind the Nene trade), but as luck would have it, Wall got hurt so we still ended up with the #3 overall pick. We now have the best of both worlds. We have enough veterans to set us on the path to winning, while also having enough young talent by adding the #3 pick. Your idea of trading the #3 pick basically wastes the one bit of silver lining for this miserable season.

I don't know how many ways we have to put it. A core of Wall, Beal and Ersan isn't enough. If Ersan is the third best under-27-year-old player on the team, then we are not built for long term success. I'd much rather take my chances with the #3 pick. It may take a while, but it's a pretty good bet that the #3 is going to be better than Ersan 3 or 4 years down the road (which is exactly the reason why you are willing to trade Ersan for the #3).

[verbal8]

I don't know how many ways we have to put it. A core of Wall, Beal and Ersan isn't enough. If Ersan is the third best under-27-year-old player on the team, then we are not built for long term success. I'd much rather take my chances with the #3 pick.

Trading for Ersan would have made more sense with the 8th or 9th pick. However trading down from the 3rd pick to the 15th pick is giving up a lot more value than just dealing the 8th pick. It is almost as if this came up before the draft lotto and then the 15 was thrown in since the Wizards moved up in draft position.

[ReasonablySober]

If the Wizards were trading from the 8th or 9th pick, I think Ilyasova would be a decent value for the pick.

However typically the drop-off from 3 to 15 is much larger than the value of the 8th or 9th pick.

Win-shares isn't great, but it gives a rough idea. Sean Elliot was a typical 3rd pick in terms of win-shares. Anthony Peeler is a typical example in terms of Win-Shares for the 15th pick. I don't think anyone would trade Sean Elliot for Ersan and Anthony Peeler. Rodney Rogers, Stacey Augmon straight up? No problem.

I wouldn't mind a double trade down with the Twolves, but not sure they are willing to part with the assets to move from 3 to 9. Adding both Derrick Williams and Ersan seems like a poor return.

I should disclose now that while I'd be fine with moving Ersan for the #3, I'd dead against moving him and the #15. Again, I want to accumulate two things: young players and losses. Since I don't think there's value at the top of the draft and comparative value in the teens, using Ersan to move up from the 15 is horrendous value in my opinion.

But since we're both talking WS, i figured I'd go back and look at the WS/48 for a number of former #3 overall players, both peak and career average. For example:

Sean Elliot - '89 - (.147/.109)

For reference, here's Ilyasova:

Ersan Ilyasova - (.185/.141)

Now, other #3 overall picks from '90 to the present:

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf - (.125 / .077)
Billy Owens - (.107 / .078)
Christian Laettner - (.177 / .121)
Anfernee Hardaway - (.229 / .125)
Grant Hill - (.223 / .138)
Jerry Stackhouse (.137 / .083)
Shareef Abdur-Rahim - (.151 / .118)
Chauncey Billups - (.257 / .178)
Raef LaFrentz - (.132 / .130)
Baron Davis - (.139 / .106)
Darius Miles - (.083 / .039)
Pau Gasol - (.232 / .174)
Mike Dunleavy Jr. (.146 / .102)
Carmelo Anthony - (.184 / .134)
Ben Gordon - (.152 / .083)
Deron Williams - (.184 / .143)
Adam Morrison - (.009 / -.021) *ouch*
Al Horford - (.183 / .155)
O.J. Mayo - (.094 / .072)
James Harden - (.230 / .183)
Derrick Favors - (.117 / .105)
Enes Kanter - (.101 - /098)
Bradley Beal - (.082 / .082)

I think this is an interesting list to look at. Again, no catch all stat is perfect. WS/48 is just another tool.

But you'll forgive me if I had to chuckle at the use of Sean Elliot in your example. I think he was a good, above average player with a nice two year peak. But I'm not moving Ilyasova for him.

But looking at the list, it jives with what we generally accept, right? There are a couple Hall of Fame worthy players up there. One or two guys who would have made it with extended peaks. A couple very good players that have given All Star type production. And there's a whole lot of trash too.

I think it's interesting to look at Horford and Ilyasova. Both different players from a skill-set, but look at a few numbers:

Al Horford
Age: 27

Peak WS/48: .183
Career WS/48: .155

Career Per 36:
PPG: 14.3
RPG: 10.1
ORtg: 115
DRtg: 104

compared to:

Ersan Ilyasova
Age: 26

Peak WS/48: .185
Career WS/48: .141

Career Per 36:
PPG: 15.9
RPG: 9.5
ORtg: 111
DRtg: 104

The numbers are pretty similar, right? Now, I'd rather have Horford, all things being equal, but it's not as far off as you would think, and Ilyasova is younger and cheaper.

But question to you guys: would you have any reservations about moving the #3 for Horford?

[Dat2U]

I think it's interesting to look at Horford and Ilyasova. Both different players from a skill-set, but look at a few numbers:

Al Horford
Age: 27

Peak WS/48: .183
Career WS/48: .155

Career Per 36:
PPG: 14.3
RPG: 10.1
ORtg: 115
DRtg: 104

compared to:

Ersan Ilyasova
Age: 26

Peak WS/48: .185
Career WS/48: .141

Career Per 36:
PPG: 15.9
RPG: 9.5
ORtg: 111
DRtg: 104

The numbers are pretty similar, right? Now, I'd rather have Horford, all things being equal, but it's not as far off as you would think, and Ilyasova is younger and cheaper.

But question to you guys: would you have any reservations about moving the #3 for Horford?

They are completely different players, but I would trade for Horford. Horford actually plays 36 minutes a night. Horford plays the C position. Horford is one of the better post defenders in the league. With respect to Josh Smith & Joe Johnson, Al Horford has been the best player on the Hawks team for years. He's the reason they've been in the playoffs every year. Horford is clearly a better player than Ilyasova IMO and it's not as close as the stats say it is.

[nuposse04]

If the Wizards were trading from the 8th or 9th pick, I think Ilyasova would be a decent value for the pick.

However typically the drop-off from 3 to 15 is much larger than the value of the 8th or 9th pick.

Win-shares isn't great, but it gives a rough idea. Sean Elliot was a typical 3rd pick in terms of win-shares. Anthony Peeler is a typical example in terms of Win-Shares for the 15th pick. I don't think anyone would trade Sean Elliot for Ersan and Anthony Peeler. Rodney Rogers, Stacey Augmon straight up? No problem.

I wouldn't mind a double trade down with the Twolves, but not sure they are willing to part with the assets to move from 3 to 9. Adding both Derrick Williams and Ersan seems like a poor return.

I should disclose now that while I'd be fine with moving Ersan for the #3, I'd dead against moving him and the #15. Again, I want to accumulate two things: young players and losses. Since I don't think there's value at the top of the draft and comparative value in the teens, using Ersan to move up from the 15 is horrendous value in my opinion.

But since we're both talking WS, i figured I'd go back and look at the WS/48 for a number of former #3 overall players, both peak and career average. For example:

Sean Elliot - '89 - (.147/.109)

For reference, here's Ilyasova:

Ersan Ilyasova - (.185/.141)

Now, other #3 overall picks from '90 to the present:

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf - (.125 / .077)
Billy Owens - (.107 / .078)
Christian Laettner - (.177 / .121)
Anfernee Hardaway - (.229 / .125)
Grant Hill - (.223 / .138)
Jerry Stackhouse (.137 / .083)
Shareef Abdur-Rahim - (.151 / .118)
Chauncey Billups - (.257 / .178)
Raef LaFrentz - (.132 / .130)
Baron Davis - (.139 / .106)
Darius Miles - (.083 / .039)
Pau Gasol - (.232 / .174)
Mike Dunleavy Jr. (.146 / .102)
Carmelo Anthony - (.184 / .134)
Ben Gordon - (.152 / .083)
Deron Williams - (.184 / .143)
Adam Morrison - (.009 / -.021) *ouch*
Al Horford - (.183 / .155)
O.J. Mayo - (.094 / .072)
James Harden - (.230 / .183)
Derrick Favors - (.117 / .105)
Enes Kanter - (.101 - /098)
Bradley Beal - (.082 / .082)

I think this is an interesting list to look at. Again, no catch all stat is perfect. WS/48 is just another tool.

But you'll forgive me if I had to chuckle at the use of Sean Elliot in your example. I think he was a good, above average player with a nice two year peak. But I'm not moving Ilyasova for him.

But looking at the list, it jives with what we generally accept, right? There are a couple Hall of Fame worthy players up there. One or two guys who would have made it with extended peaks. A couple very good players that have given All Star type production. And there's a whole lot of trash too.

I think it's interesting to look at Horford and Ilyasova. Both different players from a skill-set, but look at a few numbers:

Al Horford
Age: 27

Peak WS/48: .183
Career WS/48: .155

Career Per 36:
PPG: 14.3
RPG: 10.1
ORtg: 115
DRtg: 104

compared to:

Ersan Ilyasova
Age: 26

Peak WS/48: .185
Career WS/48: .141

Career Per 36:
PPG: 15.9
RPG: 9.5
ORtg: 111
DRtg: 104

The numbers are pretty similar, right? Now, I'd rather have Horford, all things being equal, but it's not as far off as you would think, and Ilyasova is younger and cheaper.

But question to you guys: would you have any reservations about moving the #3 for Horford?

Why are you comparing career averages...better to look at their past 2-3 seasons to get an idea of what kind of players they are.

As to your question...at least for me...I'd rather have horford because he isn't a liability in ISO or defensive situations. He isn't as inconsistent as Ersan...He's a better passer, a better rebounder and an actual all star caliber player.

Also while I like Per 36...Ersan has been in the league 5 years now and accrued a decent sample size...I'm not sure why I should believe he can keep up the same efficiency with an extra 10 mpg. He also would be a liability defensively here, as you guys would want Okafor back in any deal, and he could mask Ersan's terrible lateral movement speed. I'm curious since you must know, how often did Sanders share court time with Ersan?

And don't try to sell me that udoh could fill that role, Udoh is a trashbag of a player.

[sfam]

And like I said, I certainly don't blame any of you for passing on the deal. If I were running the team I'd add another young piece too. I said as much on my board when talking about your situation:

So you're basically saying that if the Wizards have a mandate to do something dumb in order to keep Wall, than this trade is a good deal. Again, if Okafor is included, I don't see us winning more games. This makes the trade bad in the short and long term.

It's not difficult to see exactly what I'm saying. If the Wizards want to win over the next three or four years, I believe Ilyasova gives them the better chance than the #3 pick.

But if you understand my philosophy on team building, and I think I've made it clear if you have even an average ability to infer, it's accumulating a number of young players, losing a lot of games and hoping to hit on at least two franchise changing players. The difficulty lies in finding a franchise player before your young talent improves to the point where you no longer are able to find that guy in the draft. That's exactly what has happened to the Bucks. In an ideal world they would tank, hit a home run on a franchise player, then add your Sanders, Ilyasovas and Hensons. That's a contender.

But to put that perspective towards your team, I think Washington greatly screwed up by adding Nene and Okafor. I'd have gone with Wall, Beal and C-minus players around them until they added one more potential superstar. Now it's hard to imagine them being bad enough in '14 to hit on that guy. Your hopes rest on Wall being a top five player. It could happen, but I doubt it.

So the question becomes do you roll with Wall being a stud and adding the best possible players around him? Hope for some legit success this season? Or do you try and toe the line of win-now and win-later, something that's awfully tough to pull off.

Well, the obvious hope is the #3 pick becomes all-star quality - hence our reluctance to part with it for a decent role player. And the Wall of the second half of the season was stellar. Most here now see Wall reaching his potential.

[sfam]

Its funny, everyone on the bucks board calls this a "fair trade" that the bucks should do instantly, yet virtually nobody on the Wizards board find the trade closely palatable. That kinda tells me its strongly warped in the bucks' favor. Yeah, every one of the top draft picks may suck, but clearly fans of both teams want their team to be the one to find out.

Chances for an impact player come few and far between. You don't pass those up for a quality role player.

It's a fair trade given each team's situation. Washington wants to win now and make the playoffs. Milwaukee is ready to build around Henson/Sanders. You can re-read my post and the different scenarios, this is likely your best chance at being a middle playoff team over the next 3 seasons.

Well again, who has that goal? We want to be contenders 3 years from now, not stuck in purgatory in the 6-8 playoff seeds. Getting to the playoffs only makes sense if you have a path towards becoming elite.

[ReasonablySober]

If the Wizards were trading from the 8th or 9th pick, I think Ilyasova would be a decent value for the pick.

However typically the drop-off from 3 to 15 is much larger than the value of the 8th or 9th pick.

Win-shares isn't great, but it gives a rough idea. Sean Elliot was a typical 3rd pick in terms of win-shares. Anthony Peeler is a typical example in terms of Win-Shares for the 15th pick. I don't think anyone would trade Sean Elliot for Ersan and Anthony Peeler. Rodney Rogers, Stacey Augmon straight up? No problem.

I wouldn't mind a double trade down with the Twolves, but not sure they are willing to part with the assets to move from 3 to 9. Adding both Derrick Williams and Ersan seems like a poor return.

I should disclose now that while I'd be fine with moving Ersan for the #3, I'd dead against moving him and the #15. Again, I want to accumulate two things: young players and losses. Since I don't think there's value at the top of the draft and comparative value in the teens, using Ersan to move up from the 15 is horrendous value in my opinion.

But since we're both talking WS, i figured I'd go back and look at the WS/48 for a number of former #3 overall players, both peak and career average. For example:

Sean Elliot - '89 - (.147/.109)

For reference, here's Ilyasova:

Ersan Ilyasova - (.185/.141)

Now, other #3 overall picks from '90 to the present:

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf - (.125 / .077)
Billy Owens - (.107 / .078)
Christian Laettner - (.177 / .121)
Anfernee Hardaway - (.229 / .125)
Grant Hill - (.223 / .138)
Jerry Stackhouse (.137 / .083)
Shareef Abdur-Rahim - (.151 / .118)
Chauncey Billups - (.257 / .178)
Raef LaFrentz - (.132 / .130)
Baron Davis - (.139 / .106)
Darius Miles - (.083 / .039)
Pau Gasol - (.232 / .174)
Mike Dunleavy Jr. (.146 / .102)
Carmelo Anthony - (.184 / .134)
Ben Gordon - (.152 / .083)
Deron Williams - (.184 / .143)
Adam Morrison - (.009 / -.021) *ouch*
Al Horford - (.183 / .155)
O.J. Mayo - (.094 / .072)
James Harden - (.230 / .183)
Derrick Favors - (.117 / .105)
Enes Kanter - (.101 - /098)
Bradley Beal - (.082 / .082)

I think this is an interesting list to look at. Again, no catch all stat is perfect. WS/48 is just another tool.

But you'll forgive me if I had to chuckle at the use of Sean Elliot in your example. I think he was a good, above average player with a nice two year peak. But I'm not moving Ilyasova for him.

But looking at the list, it jives with what we generally accept, right? There are a couple Hall of Fame worthy players up there. One or two guys who would have made it with extended peaks. A couple very good players that have given All Star type production. And there's a whole lot of trash too.

I think it's interesting to look at Horford and Ilyasova. Both different players from a skill-set, but look at a few numbers:

Al Horford
Age: 27

Peak WS/48: .183
Career WS/48: .155

Career Per 36:
PPG: 14.3
RPG: 10.1
ORtg: 115
DRtg: 104

compared to:

Ersan Ilyasova
Age: 26

Peak WS/48: .185
Career WS/48: .141

Career Per 36:
PPG: 15.9
RPG: 9.5
ORtg: 111
DRtg: 104

The numbers are pretty similar, right? Now, I'd rather have Horford, all things being equal, but it's not as far off as you would think, and Ilyasova is younger and cheaper.

But question to you guys: would you have any reservations about moving the #3 for Horford?

Why are you comparing career averages...better to look at their past 2-3 seasons to get an idea of what kind of players they are.

As to your question...at least for me...I'd rather have horford because he isn't a liability in ISO or defensive situations. He isn't as inconsistent as Ersan...He's a better passer, a better rebounder and an actual all star caliber player.

Also while I like Per 36...Ersan has been in the league 5 years now and accrued a decent sample size...I'm not sure why I should believe he can keep up the same efficiency with an extra 10 mpg. He also would be a liability defensively here, as you guys would want Okafor back in any deal, and he could mask Ersan's terrible lateral movement speed. I'm curious since you must know, how often did Sanders share court time with Ersan?

And don't try to sell me that udoh could fill that role, Udoh is a trashbag of a player.

Here ya go.

I used PER/36. Ersan's been a 30 mpg guy for the majority of games he's played, but there were two sets of circumstances that kept him from getting those minutes.

1 - In '11-'12 Skiles had a hardon for Drew Gooden and Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. It's fair to question whether Ilyasova ever gets a chance unless injuries occur. But once he made his first start he never looked back.

2 - In '12-13 Skiles was a lame duck with a crowded front court and he dicked with player minutes. Once Boylan took over Ersan went back to being a 30 mpg player (again in a crowded front court)

But anyway, yea those are the two players compared over the last two seasons.

[sfam]

Ersan's a fine young man. I especially like that he has that Transylvania vampire look given my ties to Halloween. But he doesn't help us get to a title the way the #3 pick can potentially do. Trading Okafor away at this point is a horrid idea, as he anchors our D. I get that Bucks fans LOVE the idea of a #3 pick as a possible escape from mediocrity, but so do we, and we have the #3 pick. It makes no short or long term sense to trade it. No, just no, Ernie.