The Lebron Thread (Pt. 3)

[TheChosen618]

You can't say you had no problem with his effort, but then claim he was passive. That doesn't make sense.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by his effort. I was fine by his defensive, rebounding effort, which was a problem in the first 3 quarters of Game 2. I did have a problem with his scoring effort though, which was pretty non-existent until the 4th.

LeBron main skill is getting to the rim. He didn't do any of that until that little spurt at the end of the 3rd.He couldn't finish, either, and had ZERO FTs. He was awful including horrible passes and a broke jumper. They were sagging off on him and still couldn't hit 10-15 footers. Extremely disappointed with his play.

He didn't get to the rim for the same reason you said....they were sagging off of him. They were daring him to shoot, but Lebron can't even make them pay right now.

[ardee]

I think this is the main thing. Miami is at their best when LeBron comes out firing and Wade 'gets in on the fun' later in the game at his discretion. Wade understands that LeBron is THE guy and he's a 'compliment' to him, and we don't need his complimentary play in the first half, especially if he's only going to be visible for that half only. I'd much prefer LeBron to come out firing early and then later in the game (2nd half) if LeBron needs help, that is when Wade can try to get going, ala game 4 of the Pacers series last year.

Not comparing LeBron to Jordan, but using the example....Jordan would try to get his 'role' players going early in the game by not being dominant, and then take over the 4th or when needed. To me, LeBron, as great as he is, wants to be a glorified 'role' player. I understand him trying to get Chalmers and Haslem and the others involved, but the star has to know, HE HAS TO KNOW when it is necessary for him to 'take over' the game because he does not want his team to lose. LeBron doesn't appear to sense when to take over. He wants others to take over the scoring dominance and play his 'role' facilitation.

Jordan KNEW when his team was in trouble if he didn't dominate with his scoring.

No, no, you're thinking of the wrong player.

ESPECIALLY 1991 onward, his absolute peak, he looked for his shot MUCH earlier in the game. Watch any of the Finals games, he's attacking and shooting from the jump ball. Of course Jordan had a ridiculous off ball game so he was slicing up the Lakers like crazy with his cuts and motion as well.

[ardee]

Not amount of sliming down is going to give him back his youth. The first step isn't there anymore, and it isn't coming back. At some point he should have developed a crossover dribble, a pull up jumper, and the necessary footwork to consistently operate as a competent post threat, but for whatever reason he never has. Perhaps charging him up with hype he never earned has something to do with it?


He'll be 29 next season, I doubt things get any easier from here on.

No one is expecting him to play like a 23 year-old but dropping a few pounds does wonders to your agility and quickness. If he's gonna play on the perimeter, he needs speed, it's simple as that otherwise he'll look like the 2011 LeBron - can't get to the paint against great defenses and is forced to chuck jumpers. The thing that made LeBron a great player in Cleveland was his speed, the way he could get inside easily against any type of defense. Now, he's slow as **** and resorts to strength more than anything when it comes to going places on the court. In other words, look, if old-ass Pierce and Bryant can get into the lane with ease there's no reason LeBron should be able to.

The other alternative is keeping this body but committing to post play (ala transforming more into a inside/big player). LeBron's post game has improved but it's still nowhere close to being good (let alone a reliable option for him). He has the 'turn around left bank shot' and 'the middle drop step hook shot', neither of which is really consistent. He also takes too much time to make a move and is too predictable.

All in all, he can't play like this, too far away from the basket and too much jump-shooting. That's not what great players do and the Heat have plenty of players who shoot from the perimeter/mid-range already.

The thing is he got to the rim like a monster this season. 8.3 attempts per game and had 76.1% shooting at the rim. It has not been a problem for him at all. He's already regained that old athleticism and ability to snake into the lane whenever he wanted.

The pertinent thing here is why it's just disappeared. It's not like he's had a strenuous season by his standards. He's played the second least minutes of his career, missed a bunch of games to rest at the end, and even earlier in the Playoffs he was taking it easy.

It's bizarre.

You contribute it to the Spurs' defense yes but it's not as if he had difficulty against good defenses in the season. FFS his FG% has dropped 17.7% from the season. The Spurs aren't THAT good defensively.

[RayBan-Sematra]

I think the Spurs have a mental hold on Lebron.
He will break out of next game though I think.

[Bucksfans1and2]

I couldn't figure out a way to include the Free Throws, but that would bring this number up.

I've got Lebron scoring 122 points on 172 attempts outside the paint in the finals. That's a TS% of 36 percent.

That's very poor. But it isn't historically terrible like it's being made out.

[sp6r=underrated]

@SherwoodStrauss RT: "LeBron is shooting 52/211 (24.6%) outside the restricted area through 18 career NBA Finals games"

Jesus. That makes me so happy

[Bucksfans1and2]

@SherwoodStrauss RT: "LeBron is shooting 52/211 (24.6%) outside the restricted area through 18 career NBA Finals games"

Jesus. That makes me so happy

I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I looked at the shot charts for each game and I've got him at 172 attempts and I couldn't get the shot chart for only one of the games.

[Jordan23Forever]

I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I looked at the shot charts for each game and I've got him at 172 attempts and I couldn't get the shot chart for only one of the games.

I'm reasonably sure that a published sports writer would not just make up numbers, and has access to more and/or more accurate data.

[Bucksfans1and2]

I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I looked at the shot charts for each game and I've got him at 172 attempts and I couldn't get the shot chart for only one of the games.

I'm reasonably sure that a published sports writer would not just make up numbers, and has access to more and/or more accurate data.

Look it up yourself.

That published sports writer title doesn't mean jack **** these days. I've written published articles for this site, that doesn't make me an authority on everything.

[barborous]

Simply subtracting the points that a player scores in transition to figure out how good of half court player someone is moronic.

Lebron is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league, he is one of the better mid ranged shooters in the game. He is one of the most effective post players in the game.

First thing you said is arguably true. Third thing you said is true. The other two things are pretty laughable, especially the second one.

[Bucksfans1and2]

Simply subtracting the points that a player scores in transition to figure out how good of half court player someone is moronic.

Lebron is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league, he is one of the better mid ranged shooters in the game. He is one of the most effective post players in the game.

First thing you said is arguably true. Third thing you said is true. The other two things are pretty laughable, especially the second one.

- Of players that shot more than 200 3 point shooters, Lebron was 20th in percentage. 41% from the field is damn good. Jordan only had one season of high volume 3 point shooting that was better. Kobe hasn't had any season at any volume.

- Lebron's post stats are very good. He scores at a pretty efficient rate and his passing out of the post is excellent.

[lorak]

Jesus. That makes me so happy

I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I looked at the shot charts for each game and I've got him at 172 attempts and I couldn't get the shot chart for only one of the games.

Yes, it's not accurate, but only by 1 FGM...

LeBron is shooting 53/211 (25.1%) outside the restricted area through 18 career NBA Finals games.

However ;] he's great at rim: 94/131 (71.8% - that's basically what Shaq shot at rim in the finals vs Mutombo in 2001 and in 2002 vs very good defensively Nets team).

[barborous]

Simply subtracting the points that a player scores in transition to figure out how good of half court player someone is moronic.

Lebron is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league, he is one of the better mid ranged shooters in the game. He is one of the most effective post players in the game.

First thing you said is arguably true. Third thing you said is true. The other two things are pretty laughable, especially the second one.

- Of players that shot more than 200 3 point shooters, Lebron was 20th in percentage. 41% from the field is damn good. Jordan only had one season of high volume 3 point shooting that was better. Kobe hasn't had any season at any volume.

- Lebron's post stats are very good. He scores at a pretty efficient rate and his passing out of the post is excellent.

Jordan was a bad 3-pt shooter - probably considered horrible today. It just wasn't part of the game back then. Kobe was decent, but had horrible shot selection. Neither of them were at any point close to elite. That LeBron is better than them isn't saying much.

According to Synergy, LeBron averaged 0.93 PPP in the post, good for 29th in the league, which is decent, but not that great. He's a good post passer, but a lot of guys who operate down low are, and it doesn't make him elite like you suggest.

[Bucksfans1and2]

I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I looked at the shot charts for each game and I've got him at 172 attempts and I couldn't get the shot chart for only one of the games.

Yes, it's not accurate, but only by 1 FGM...

LeBron is shooting 53/211 (25.1%) outside the restricted area through 18 career NBA Finals games.

However ;] he's great at rim: 94/131 (71.8% - that's basically what Shaq shot at rim in the finals vs Mutombo in 2001 and in 2002 vs very good defensively Nets team).

I still don't think that's right. I'm not saying my numbers are 100% but I want to see those numbers from somebody that isn't a Jordan guy.

[Bucksfans1and2]

First thing you said is arguably true. Third thing you said is true. The other two things are pretty laughable, especially the second one.

- Of players that shot more than 200 3 point shooters, Lebron was 20th in percentage. 41% from the field is damn good. Jordan only had one season of high volume 3 point shooting that was better. Kobe hasn't had any season at any volume.

- Lebron's post stats are very good. He scores at a pretty efficient rate and his passing out of the post is excellent.

Jordan was a bad 3-pt shooter - probably considered horrible today. It just wasn't part of the game back then. Kobe was decent, but had horrible shot selection. Neither of them were at any point close to elite. That LeBron is better than them isn't saying much.

According to Synergy, LeBron averaged 0.93 PPP in the post, good for 29th in the league, which is decent, but not that great. He's a good post passer, but a lot of guys who operate down low are, and it doesn't make him elite like you suggest.

41% is excellent from 3. I think with the exception of Kevin Durant, there isn't a single player above him on that list that can play a defender off the bounce. Calderon, Korver, Curry, Ersan, Battier, Green, Dunleavy, Martin, Novak, Webster, Allen, Sefelosha, Durant, Hayward, Watson, Foye, Chalmers, Mayo, and Carter, are the only guys above him. There's a whole lot of one dimension on that list.

[Next Coming]

Weird stat of the day: LeBron has made only two more FT's than Corey Joseph through 3 games in the Finals. EEK!

[lorak]

I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I looked at the shot charts for each game and I've got him at 172 attempts and I couldn't get the shot chart for only one of the games.

Yes, it's not accurate, but only by 1 FGM...

LeBron is shooting 53/211 (25.1%) outside the restricted area through 18 career NBA Finals games.

However ;] he's great at rim: 94/131 (71.8% - that's basically what Shaq shot at rim in the finals vs Mutombo in 2001 and in 2002 vs very good defensively Nets team).

I still don't think that's right. I'm not saying my numbers are 100% but I want to see those numbers from somebody that isn't a Jordan guy.

Check it by yourself: that's 2013 finals, to see other change season and opponent in "splits"

[barborous]

41% is excellent from 3. I think with the exception of Kevin Durant, there isn't a single player above him on that list that can play a defender off the bounce. Calderon, Korver, Curry, Ersan, Battier, Green, Dunleavy, Martin, Novak, Webster, Allen, Sefelosha, Durant, Hayward, Watson, Foye, Chalmers, Mayo, and Carter, are the only guys above him. There's a whole lot of one dimension on that list.

It's very respectable, but LeBron mostly only takes open ones in rhythm, besides the occasional heat check. He's not really a pull-up threat or a threat coming around a screen, which are the two biggest things for a 3-pt shooter.

Obviously there's no one on that list who has more dimension to their game than LeBron. What does being a good dribble attacker have to do with being elite at 3-pt shooting? We're just comparing that, not how good they are on offense in general.

[PCProductions]

Pretty excited to see how Lebron answers last night's letdown. I've got a good feeling about it.

[JulesWinnfield]

Pretty excited to see how Lebron answers last night's letdown. I've got a good feeling about it.

I don't know if you saw his press conference from about 90 or so minutes ago, but it was one of the best he has ever given IMO. Not to read too much into anything, but I expect a big game tomorrow. This is a guy who is fully aware of the situation and what will be required of him to get it done. I expect a top 10-15 career playoff performance tomorrow