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The 2013 Trade Thread II

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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1001 » by Kembastockton » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Biz Gilwalker wrote:No they can't. They can only afford two max free agents if they renounce Josh Smith. But they'd also have to renounce Teague, Korver, Pachulia, Harris, Stevenson, and all their scrubs to do it. They might even need to trade one of their picks, or Lou Williams. They all have cap holds. Dwight/Horford/Paul or Dwight/Smith/Paul could happen, but it's very unlikely.


I thought teams could exceed the salary cap to resign their own free agents. They would just have to resign Smith last. Sure they would be in luxury tax hell, but I would take my chances with those three in tow.

doc.end wrote:How that numbers work?

And no, we don't want Williams.(some do, but as a whole, this board is bit tired by plethora of offers including Williams).


I am not in love with Williams by any means, but Williams, a big at nine, plus we get rid of our two worst contracts. I think that I could stomach this trade. But I agree I don't see how those numbers could possibly work either, and I am not going to try and figure it out.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1002 » by Liver_Pooty » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:51 pm

doc.end wrote:How that numbers work?

And no, we don't want Williams.(some do, but as a whole, this board is bit tired by plethora of offers including Williams).
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1003 » by HornetJail » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:08 pm

MountBiyombo wrote:I thought teams could exceed the salary cap to resign their own free agents. They would just have to resign Smith last. Sure they would be in luxury tax hell, but I would take my chances with those three in tow.

No, Smith's cap hold is the max. If his cap hold wasn't so huge, they might be able to do it, but the hold would make that impossible. They would have to renounce him. If they renounce him, they could still sign and trade him, but they wouldn't be able to go over the cap to sign him for themselves.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1004 » by HornetJail » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:31 pm

Is there any interest in swapping picks with Portland for Meyers Leonard?

Also would you guys give up future 2nds and cap space this year to take Marion and #13 off Dallas's hands? No-brainier to me.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1005 » by Eoghan » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:57 pm

Biz Gilwalker wrote:Is there any interest in swapping picks with Portland for Meyers Leonard?

Also would you guys give up future 2nds and cap space this year to take Marion and #13 off Dallas's hands? No-brainier to me.

Meyers Leonard, yes
No to trading back in, keep
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1006 » by BeesWax » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:12 am

Biz Gilwalker wrote:Is there any interest in swapping picks with Portland for Meyers Leonard?

Also would you guys give up future 2nds and cap space this year to take Marion and #13 off Dallas's hands? No-brainier to me.


Yes to both trades.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1007 » by HornetJail » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:13 am

BrotherDave, We're not getting anything special in free agency. We all know that much. Marion expires in '14 anyway.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1008 » by JMAC3 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:53 am

Biz Gilwalker wrote:Is there any interest in swapping picks with Portland for Meyers Leonard?

Also would you guys give up future 2nds and cap space this year to take Marion and #13 off Dallas's hands? No-brainier to me.


Idk about the Portland trade... i think I would rather stay at 4 then dropping back. I would offer them their pick rights back and Jeff Taylor for Leonard though... Leonard and 10th pick would most likely give us two big white guys, who are considered fringe starters.. I would rather chance for a potential AllStar

I do not think 13th pick is very valuable this year. Marion would eat all our capspace and just sit on the bench, unless we want him taking time from MKG.

I would probably pass on both of your original trades..
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1009 » by Elden Payton » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:35 am

As mentioned previously I would rather us trade Portland their pick back for Meyers Leonard than draft Alex Len at #4.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1010 » by chrbal » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:45 pm

I'd rather do neither. I'm honestly hoping that some team picking 9th-14th gets desperate to move up. Or that Dallas is serious about wanting to dump the 13th pick to shed a contract.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1011 » by mrknowitall215 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:20 pm

The Demarcus Debate

Bobcats Baseline writers discuss the PROS and CONS of betting the franchise on DeMarcus 'Boogie' Cousins.

BEN: It’s that time of the year again. We’re approaching the NBA Draft, which means rumors are starting to fly about which troubled young stars might be on the move. Sacramento’s DeMarcus Cousins’ name has been popping up a lot lately, although there have been just as many reports saying the Kings don’t want to move him. But trade talk is fun, so let’s continue with the hypotheticals!

The Bobcats’ package for Boogie (wow, what a nickname) would certainly be centered around the #4 pick in the draft. With four first-round picks in the next two years, Charlotte has the chips to get a trade done, but the Kings’ asking price is surely going to be steep. At what point is GM Rich Cho giving up too much for the moody free agent-to-be?

ASCHIN: Don’t believe the reverse-hype. If there’s an offer out there good enough, Sacramento will make the move. The Kings organization is starting over from the top down (owner, GM, coach) and would certainly welcome the opportunity to shed Boogie and his antics for the right price. I’m guessing a combination of this year’s #4 pick, Bismack Biyombo and the future Top 14 protected Portland pick is the MINIMUM it will take to get the deal done pre-Draft.

BEN: I’ll start by saying this: I am a HUGE DeMarcus Cousins fan. It’s almost creepy how much I like him. But the money is a bit concerning. He has one year left before he will assuredly get a max contract, which means he will cost $63.3 million over five years. That’s pretty fair value for a guy who averages 18 and 10, but the #4 pick gives tremendous value. Drafting a big man (Anthony Bennett or Alex Len) will only cost $16.8 million over four years. That comes down to $4.2 million for the draft pick and about $12.6 million for Cousins. Bennett or Len may eventually put up similar numbers and they’ll cost one third as much. Using some advanced math–bare with me here–that gives Charlotte $8.4 million extra to spend. There’s a lot a team can do with that extra money. They could sign a Charlie Villanueva, their own John Salmons, or even a Metta World Peace! That’s not even considering they’d be giving up essentially two more first-rounders. Isn’t there something to be said about financial flexibility?

ASCHIN: First off, how dare you neglect to mention everyone’s favorite $8 million man, Tyrus Thomas. Second, I’m having an extremely difficult time recalling anybody in that “above-mid-level-sub-max” range worth the money. Thanks to the past couple of CBAs, the league has been further stratified into the haves and have-nots. Today’s ideal cap situation consists of two to three “stars” making near max money, a couple of mid-level guys and a bunch of rookies and veterans on minimum deals. Demarcus has a chance to blossom into an elite center thanks to his ability to operate in the high and low post (see Duncan, the Gasols, Bosh) and as of right now, he’s probably the best chance Charlotte has at acquiring a star because A.) the team’s hasn’t exactly perfected the art of Drafting and B.) Free Agent stars won’t come to Charlotte without other stars or potential stars on the roster (see David West in Indy). So in my mind, you have to make the bold trade and hope Cousins’ mental problems don’t get in the way of him reaching his potential – price be damned!

BEN: I think you’re starting to convince me, but I still think there’s an issue about the value of the assets. Let’s assume the trade would be Boogie for the #4 pick, Biyombo, and the Portland pick. Houston is rumored to be looking to auction off Thomas Robinson for a future first round pick, so they can fit Dwight Howard under the cap. Charlotte could land a player they nearly took last year on the cheap for that very same Portland pick they would be using to land Cousins. Isn’t the #4 pick, Biyombo, Robinson, and financial flexibility more valuable than Cousins? I understand the need for a star, but just because landing Cousins might be a sound trade doesn’t mean there aren’t better moves out there.

ASCHIN: I don’t think these options are mutually exclusive. It took Houston a couple of years to accumulate its chest of assets – expiring contracts, draft picks and prospects – in order to cash out when a big time prospect became available. Now that the Rockets have James Harden secured as a major building block, they’ll need to reconfigure their cap in order to sign their second star, Dwight Howard (or Chris Paul), this summer. I’m sure that Daryl Morey would love a mid to late round first round pick for Robinson but I think he realizes that in today’s NBA, having a team both absorb $4m+ in annual payroll AND give up a precious first rounder might be asking a little much. I’d bet that T-Rob could be had for as little as a high second rounder – but only for a team under the cap.

Meanwhile, by trading for Boogie this summer, Charlotte basically Xeroxes the Morey playbook, cashing in their assets for a young star (Harden/Cousins), using their cap space to bring in another young frontcourt prospect (Asik/Robinson) and then go into next summer with enough financial flexibility and picks to lure another star should one become available.

Also, thanks again for pitching me all these softballs. I mean, you haven’t even brought up the fact that I’m having Cho spend half his war chest on a (potentially) insane person.

BEN: That’s the thing: I still really really like Cousins. And as crazy as he may be, we’ve seen that crazy can be channeled into results by looking 600 miles west to Memphis and Zach Randolph. But is Cousins really the franchise player Harden is? I think he’d be a great second banana, but they still need a number one type player, and he’s much more volatile than The Beard. Kemba has the ceiling of a number three or two player, and MKG could end up being a number two as well. Could they get that top guy through the draft still? I don’t think they’d still be in the running for Wiggins et all if they have Boogie, Kemba, and MKG. I somehow doubt players will want to come play for the Hornets in free agency, since this city doesn’t have the tax-free allure of Houston, and there wouldn’t be many trade assets left after this deal. Like you said a GM’s job is extremely tough, but do you really want to build your team around a taller Zach Randolph?

ASCHIN: Just for the record, Ben was supposed to be taking the “CON” position on Boogie. Hell, maybe Cousins is such a great prospect that the immaturity and high cost of acquisition can be overlooked. To further your points: I agree that Boogie is probably a second banana. Kemba looks like a solid number three. MKG’s a good glue guy and potentially much more. This is approximately the type of nucleus Indiana had going into the ’11-’12 season. If the Horncats can use some of their cap space and remaining Lottery picks over the next two summers to add an All-Star type ala David West, they could seriously make some Playoff noise. We’re talking about an inside/out offense with some very effective transition guys and coach who’s made his name on getting the very best out of his bigs. Add a veteran free agent big like Paul Millsap to a Walker/Henderson/MKG/Cousins lineup and suddenly you a very intriguing starting five.

http://www.bobcatsbaseline.com/2013/the ... us-debate/
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1012 » by MasterIchiro » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:16 pm

I honestly wouldn't mind a lineup of Kemba, Hendo, MKG and Cousins heading into the 2014 draft. We'd just need to get a top 3 pick to plug Randall into the PF position. To open the gates in 2014-2015 we'd have a playoff team of Kemba, Hendo, MKG, Randall and Cousins plus a likely top-1 protected pick from DET in our back pocket to take the place of the pick we'll lose to the Bulls. Maybe that's the draft we pick up a lethal scoring guard to push Hendo to a 6th man role.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1013 » by Kembastockton » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:33 pm

Kemba, Hendo, MKG, and Cousins. Plus we still will have the Detroit pick. I can live with that.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1014 » by Elden Payton » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:58 am

I really don't want Cousins at all, it seems the opposite of what we've been doing culture wise.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1015 » by shrink » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:58 pm

andyhei wrote:Just curious, is it fine for you guys to give up 4th pick, for 9th pick, Derrick Williams, unloading both Tyrus Thomas and Gordon's contracts,amd receiving Ridnour's expiring contract?


Andy - there's no way that MIN would take on both Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon in that package. TT and Gordon are $31.2 mil (half an NBA payroll), and they'd get back the production of two years of Thomas and a year of Ben. It's doubtful they'd produce enough to be worth half that much money.

Then adding Williams + #9 on top, just for the #4? No.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1016 » by BeesWax » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:28 pm

What if we try to help the Clippers get Dwight? If the Lakers refuse to deal and the Clips want to sign him to keep Paul could we work our way into this to give them the needed space? If we amnesty Thomas how much salary could we take back at that time?
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1017 » by SWedd523 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:32 pm

Who the heck would we want? The only big money players they'd likely be willing to move are DeAndre Jordan and Caron Butler. I want no part of either
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1018 » by BeesWax » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:36 pm

SWedd523 wrote:Who the heck would we want? The only big money players they'd likely be willing to move are DeAndre Jordan and Caron Butler. I want no part of either


There would have to be some incentive true but I am talking using our space to facilitate. If they think they will lose Paul if they don't get Howard there has been talk of moving Griffin to get him. If we could land Griffin to help the get Dwight that would be sweet. We could even send back the Portland and Detroit picks so they can restock which the Heat were never able to do with there big names.
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1019 » by SWedd523 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:01 pm

jdm3 wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:Who the heck would we want? The only big money players they'd likely be willing to move are DeAndre Jordan and Caron Butler. I want no part of either


There would have to be some incentive true but I am talking using our space to facilitate. If they think they will lose Paul if they don't get Howard there has been talk of moving Griffin to get him. If we could land Griffin to help the get Dwight that would be sweet. We could even send back the Portland and Detroit picks so they can restock which the Heat were never able to do with there big names.

If we could get Griffin, sure, but I don't think that's a very reasonable expectation. He's definitely overrated but he's a big part of that franchise's success over the years.

DeAndre would almost assuredly be the odd man out. The issue is that they don't have much lower salaried talent that could be used as incentive outside of Bledsoe and they don't have any valuable draft picks (that I know of).

We might be able to help facilitate a s&t, but I just don't see us as a good trade partner for them
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Re: The 2013 Trade Thread II 

Post#1020 » by Kembastockton » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:37 pm

I wouldn't give up both picks for Griffin. He is much to Hollywood to ever resign here. Plus we have no idea how valueable the Detroit pick is going to end up being.

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