Jason Kidd to Coach the Nets

[NyCeEvO]

I'm probably one of the few Nets fans that have advocated trading Lopez over the years because I felt that while his offensive game his nice, it doesn't matter that much when you can stop the opposition from scoring layups on you.

It also doesn't help that he lacks a mean streak/toughness. He lets himself get pushed around too much and that really hurts, especially considering that he's not fleet of foot and can't cover ground too quickly.

[Paradise]

That would require Brook becoming a better rim-protector.

Among other things, yes. Lopez's defense leaves much to be desired, as does his defensive rebounding. But he's not the only hole in their scheme. They need a more coherent plan on defense.

The thing is, Brook's defense was very good early on. His way of defending was similar to what Hibbert did in the playoffs. As time went on after his injury, his pick and roll defense became worse and he didn't help on time as he used too.

But we never had a real defensive game plan. Nobody was ever on the same page. The defense we played looked like what the Mavs used on the Warriors in 07. Whenever Reggie/Deron were supposed to guard the pick and roll, Reggie would forget his assignment within the play, Lopez would to rotate over too late but half of the time, the defense we played was on pick and rolls were PG/PF oriented and it would never work.

[tsherkin]

In many ways, I think people need to understand what a 7-footer who doens't have freakishly elite lateral quickness is actually capable of doing, and then focus on developing his strengths while arranging the rest of the team to cover his weaknesses.

People would worry less about BroPez if he wasn't such a lazy asshat on the defensive glass, I mean he's a terrible defensive rebounder... for a PF, let alone a center. He got back to hitting the offensive boards very well this year, which was nice, but he needs to quite sucking on the defensive glass and if he can do that, his impact on that side of the floor will improve considerably. Then the team can start work on working a more effective perimeter scheme of funneling and rotations and Lopez can focus on contesting certain zones, generally within 10-12 feet of the basket. He doesn't need to be a freaking DPOY player, either.

[tsherkin]

The thing is, Brook's defense was very good early on. His way of defending was similar to what Hibbert did in the playoffs. As time went on after his injury, his pick and roll defense became worse and he didn't help on time as he used too.

I don't think I'd agree to "very good," but certainly his defensive rebounding was actually pretty solid as a rookie and he was blocking shots more effectively as a rookie than he had in any year other than this past season. Coaching played a role in various ways, and certainly his injuries didn't help, either.

But we never had a real defensive game plan. Nobody was ever on the same page. The defense we played looked like what the Mavs used on the Warriors in 07. Whenever Reggie/Deron were supposed to guard the pick and roll, Reggie would forget his assignment within the play, Lopez would to rotate over too late but half of the time, the defense we played was on pick and rolls were PG/PF oriented and it would never work.

Yep, you need more consistent direction and guidance to play good defense. It's not JUST effort, there has to be a coherent idea of how you want to handle given situations and the Nets have lacked that for a long time. Brook is a big guy; like many centers of similar proportions, he has strengths and weaknesses on D (really, any player is that way) and people make too much out of whether he can handle jumping out on a switch on a guy a foot shorter than him. That shouldn't be his role unless it's relatively close to the rim and only if the team is going to protect the hole by the rim his departure will create, because otherwise it's a heads-up cut and a pass away from an opposition dunk.

[Paradise]

In many ways, I think people need to understand what a 7-footer who doens't have freakishly elite lateral quickness is actually capable of doing, and then focus on developing his strengths while arranging the rest of the team to cover his weaknesses.

Well, that's true but Hibbert has the same type of lateral quickness.

People would worry less about BroPez if he wasn't such a lazy asshat on the defensive glass, I mean he's a terrible defensive rebounder... for a PF, let alone a center. He got back to hitting the offensive boards very well this year, which was nice, but he needs to quite sucking on the defensive glass and if he can do that, his impact on that side of the floor will improve considerably. Then the team can start work on working a more effective perimeter scheme of funneling and rotations and Lopez can focus on contesting certain zones, generally within 10-12 feet of the basket. He doesn't need to be a freaking DPOY player, either.

Putting him next to Reggie Evans who is a stat padder didn't help either. I'd actually like to see Kidd tell him he's the one responsible for the Nets rebounding. Challenge him at that instead of throwing out "Let Reggie grab rebounds and you do the scoring" like the Avery regime loved to do.

[tsherkin]

Well, that's true but Hibbert has the same type of lateral quickness.

That was my point; people expect too much from players in some ways. Even the greats had deficiencies which were covered up. Someone like Hibbert, he's not been historically a DOMINANT defensive rebounder (outside of the Heat series, though he was at 20%+ DRB in 2011 and 2012 before dropping to 17% or so this past season), but he provides a lot in different ways and he's a better shot-blocker than Lopez. Still, it does leave open the possibilty that Lopez could be very effective in the appropriately-designed circumstances. My whole point in mentioning quickness was to point out that not everyone is Hakeem or D-Rob athletically, right? Bob Lanier, Nate Thurmond, Mark Eaton, even Bill Cartwright, there have been lots of quality defenders at the 5 who have been tall and lacking in totally explosive mobility.

Putting him next to Reggie Evans who is a stat padder didn't help either. I'd actually like to see Kidd tell him he's the one responsible for the Nets rebounding. Challenge him at that instead of throwing out "Let Reggie grab rebounds and you do the scoring" like the Avery regime loved to do.

Yes, but this is also the guy who admitted to being lazy next to Kris Humphries, speaking of rebounding. His motor needs some work, at least in that regard. The team defense, of course, would be better without Reggie, there I agree.

[DarkXaero]

tsherkin, take a look at this:

http://hoopchalk.com/2013/04/16/why-cant-brook-lopez-rebound-he-boxes-out-too-much/

A good article on how the Nets' rebounding worked last season. Whether it's down to laziness or simply unselfishness, Brook lets his frontcourt partner gets rebounds (Humphries and then last year, Reggie).

[dho4ever]

The math analogy is bad. The purpose of a math class was for a student to learn the material. The purpose of selecting a coach is to well.. select a good candidate. What work is there that you need to show?

If he's a good coach, then he's a good coach. If he's bad, then he's bad.

The Nets could get lucky with their hire I don't dispute that but over the long run making decisions based on a strong logical support will lead to better results than a myopic focus on marketing (which is what this is). If you want the quality of the league to improve, which I am assuming everyone does, teams making decisions for intelligent reasons is essential.

This hire is a step in the wrong direction much like the Kerr as GM move was. I hope it fails.

Where are you getting this assumpting that it's not an intelligent decision?

You assuming that it's an illogical decision seems to be based off the fact that the guy is Jason Kidd, whose a pretty big name amongst retired NBA players. If that's all you got, then you don't really have a strong argument.

Do we know what happened in the discussion? Do we know if the interview went very well?

. All we got was that WT had a couple sentences about Jason Kidd wanting to be a coach. And then a couple days later, he gets the job. There's a lot of blanks here. Don't just fill them in with how you feel.

[Paradise]

ESPN NY Radio is reporting Nets have a $2M a year offer on the table for Lawrence Frank as an assistant coach/associate head coach.

[SpeedyG]

In many ways, I think people need to understand what a 7-footer who doens't have freakishly elite lateral quickness is actually capable of doing, and then focus on developing his strengths while arranging the rest of the team to cover his weaknesses.

That's part of the problem. We know who Lopez is and isn't on the defensive end. He can contest because of his length, but he's not going to be able to step out because he just lacks the lateral quickness to do so. Yet, we routinely asked him to do just that, especially against the Bulls in the playoffs.

Why? Because Deron can't get stay with the other team's PG. If our perimeter guys did a good job of defending the perimeter aspect of the PnR, Lopez despite his weakness would not be exposed as much. Defensively, the two are a bad combination. Given that I don't think Brook can change, then it is up to Deron (and the rest of the defense) to defend better and make the penetration more difficult, because if they do that...Brook has shown that he CAN change shots if not block them.

[tsherkin]

tsherkin, take a look at this:

http://hoopchalk.com/2013/04/16/why-cant-brook-lopez-rebound-he-boxes-out-too-much/

A good article on how the Nets' rebounding worked last season. Whether it's down to laziness or simply unselfishness, Brook lets his frontcourt partner gets rebounds (Humphries and then last year, Reggie).

By his own admission, it's laziness. He used to be better, but began deferring a lot. There are players who've gotten away with this before, I mean Clifford Robinson, Rasheed Wallace, there are a couple of guys who come to mind but on a team that needs the help oon the defensive boards can't afford to have a player be so lazy, especially to the point of being as bad relative to his position as has been Lopez. He's been Bargnani-esque (Bargs managed 16.6% DRB in the lockout season) and the Nets were only 12th in DRB% last season, where improvement could have helped.

That's part of the problem. We know who Lopez is and isn't on the defensive end. He can contest because of his length, but he's not going to be able to step out because he just lacks the lateral quickness to do so. Yet, we routinely asked him to do just that, especially against the Bulls in the playoffs.

Yeah, and that's an issue of coaching and roster support, not something that should be pinned on Lopez, I agree.

Why? Because Deron can't get stay with the other team's PG.

Eh, that's not fair to Deron; there aren't many PGs out there who aren't bench players managing limited minutes who can stay with PGs defensively. They're the quickest player group on the floor and they routinely take screens, which basically eliminate man defense as an effective combatant from that spot. You NEED good layered defense there. The Nets didn't have a coherent defensive scheme and you do have to ultimately give an offense something. Brooklyn should be daring teams to shoot 20-footers so that Lopez doesn't have to jump out TOO far, and maybe they can extract something of value from Blatche on that end of the floor. Better communication and guidance of the perimeter players would be helpful, for sure.

I think that they need to replace JJ and Wallace with younger players, probably 3+D types. JJ was an insanely stupid acquisition. Old, his contract is ghastly and he's a weak scoring option who relies on low turnover rate and passing to be useful in terms of offensive production... and he takes the ball away from Deron, which isn't good, given the difference in their respective offensive abilities and the team's overall performance. We'll see how things play out. I'm highly interested in seeing what happens with the Nets this upcoming season.

[Trader_Joe]

tsherkin, take a look at this:

http://hoopchalk.com/2013/04/16/why-cant-brook-lopez-rebound-he-boxes-out-too-much/

A good article on how the Nets' rebounding worked last season. Whether it's down to laziness or simply unselfishness, Brook lets his frontcourt partner gets rebounds (Humphries and then last year, Reggie).

This was actually a pretty good article I've shared before.

Lopez is like Hibbert in that Hibbert doesn't put up great rebounding numbers, but his team was the best rebounding team in the league last year because of how much space Hibbert takes up on the floor. Quinn Buckner, Indy's color commentator, in their last match up said "Brook is every bit as big as Hibbert". Brook is slightly shorter, but very close in size.

Also, people like to focus on Lopez's individual rebounding numbers, but team rebounding is what should matter.

Nets
#2 in rebound differential (+3.6)
#2 in overall rebound percentage
#2 in offensive rebound percentage
#12 in defensive rebound percentage

I'm not sure they maintain those numbers next season, but that is why I like our size all across the floor. Height generally creates advantages.


I'd love for Kidd to teach Deron and our guards a thing or two about rebounding. They were rather unimpressive last season in that regard despite their height and strength.

[Trader_Joe]

Hearing L.Frank has a $2m offer to join the bench.
Hope he takes it, but he needs to put his wife first.

[super_balls]

They should Hire Grant Hill as an assistant, that would be amazing.

[SpeedyG]

By his own admission, it's laziness. He used to be better, but began deferring a lot. There are players who've gotten away with this before, I mean Clifford Robinson, Rasheed Wallace, there are a couple of guys who come to mind but on a team that needs the help oon the defensive boards can't afford to have a player be so lazy, especially to the point of being as bad relative to his position as has been Lopez. He's been Bargnani-esque (Bargs managed 16.6% DRB in the lockout season) and the Nets were only 12th in DRB% last season, where improvement could have helped.

Ah but the Nets are far from a bad team on the boards, where we finished 10th! Can it improve, yes it can. But the point most are making is that Lopez can average double-digit rebounds if he wants to...and it will matter little in the bottom line. Evans and Hump get so many "garbage" rebounds where there is no one there to contest them. There's also the rebounds off of FTs, which again Lopez mostly boxes out and lets those two hogs get it. Those are the type of rebounds that are easily taken by other centers, and quickly pad their DRB numbers.

The point is, Brook is not the liability that he is on the boards that his numbers indicate, because he does do a good job of boxing out most of the time..which results in one of the other Net players securing it. I think there was a stat pulled that one year he missed games showing how much drop off the Nets had rebounding with him out of the lineup despite Kris Hump's #s spiking up.

Why? Because Deron can't get stay with the other team's PG.

Eh, that's not fair to Deron; there aren't many PGs out there who aren't bench players managing limited minutes who can stay with PGs defensively. They're the quickest player group on the floor and they routinely take screens, which basically eliminate man defense as an effective combatant from that spot. You NEED good layered defense there. The Nets didn't have a coherent defensive scheme and you do have to ultimately give an offense something. Brooklyn should be daring teams to shoot 20-footers so that Lopez doesn't have to jump out TOO far, and maybe they can extract something of value from Blatche on that end of the floor. Better communication and guidance of the perimeter players would be helpful, for sure. [/quote]

Well, I didn't mean to pin it all on Deron. All I meant is that...in a typical PnR situation, your PG and your C will be the ones stressed by the offense. Since our C is "maxed" out athletically, then it is up to Deron to help out a bit by dropping weight some, trying to be more toned, and hopefully get more lateral quickness to help the defense more.

I think that they need to replace JJ and Wallace with younger players, probably 3+D types. JJ was an insanely stupid acquisition. Old, his contract is ghastly and he's a weak scoring option who relies on low turnover rate and passing to be useful in terms of offensive production... and he takes the ball away from Deron, which isn't good, given the difference in their respective offensive abilities and the team's overall performance. We'll see how things play out. I'm highly interested in seeing what happens with the Nets this upcoming season.

JJ and Wallace are indeed...issues. Defensively, not so much. But offensively, very much so. Both were highly inconsistent last season (and even further back for JJ), a sign that someone is close to passing their prime. Everyone loves the "less ISO joe", and they'd be right. But Johnson wasn't an effective spot up shooter either, at least not a consistent one. Neither was Wallace.

This is also another problem that the Nets had with Avery and PJ. Neither one had patience with the younger players. With this team capped out, there is very little it can do. It MUST develop young guys, even if they make mistakes and cost us wins early in the season. Neither of those coaches did that. And perhaps, this might have played a factor into Kidd's hiring. If we are to judge Kidd's future success based on his playing days, then Kidd enjoys mentoring young players. He did it in Phoenix with Dice and Marion, he did it in NJ with RJ/Kenyon/Krstic, and even established stars look up to Kidd for improvement.

[tsherkin]

Ah but the Nets are far from a bad team on the boards, where we finished 10th!

No doubt, and 12th on the defensive boards in particular, while Brook was quite good on the offensive boards this past season. It's not a critical failing, it's just an area where they could improve and help creep up on that defensive aspect of the game, that's all I was saying. I really don't see Brook as the major hump to get over for the team defensively, there are other factors.

The point is, Brook is not the liability that he is on the boards that his numbers indicate,

No, especially now that he has returned to using his size on the offensive boards.

Well, I didn't mean to pin it all on Deron. All I meant is that...in a typical PnR situation, your PG and your C will be the ones stressed by the offense. Since our C is "maxed" out athletically, then it is up to Deron to help out a bit by dropping weight some, trying to be more toned, and hopefully get more lateral quickness to help the defense more.

Yeah, he could do a little better, that's for sure. There's been some talk in this thread about how Kidd seems to have an idea in mind for that.

JJ and Wallace are indeed...issues. Defensively, not so much. But offensively, very much so. Both were highly inconsistent last season (and even further back for JJ), a sign that someone is close to passing their prime. Everyone loves the "less ISO joe", and they'd be right. But Johnson wasn't an effective spot up shooter either, at least not a consistent one. Neither was Wallace.

I haven't been a fan of Joe Johnson since he left Phoenix, he's not a good focal offensive player. He's a weak isolation player and tries to do it far too often for the health of his team's offense. Wallace is a good dude who's pure hustle but he sucks offensively and isn't ever healthy.

If we are to judge Kidd's future success based on his playing days, then Kidd enjoys mentoring young players. He did it in Phoenix with Dice and Marion, he did it in NJ with RJ/Kenyon/Krstic, and even established stars look up to Kidd for improvement.

And that's definitely another positive angle in terms of this hiring, for sure.

[apokalypse]

i wonder how long Jason Kidd will last?

[Trader_Joe]

In case people wanted to see the roster he's likely going to have to work with.

D.Williams l T.Taylor
Johnson l (Bogdanovic) l Brooks
Wallace l Shengelia l (K.Joseph)
(Blatche) l Evans l Teletovic
Lopez l #22 l Hump

Expect them to go big in the draft (Withey/Gobert/ Dieng) and add a veteran PG like Tinsley or Telfair as CJ Watson will opt out. K.Joseph is partially guaranteed. Bojan Bogdanovic is the 2nd round pick they traded for 2 years ago who they supposedly will get with the tax MLE. Blatche has made it sound like he is staying as he's an amnesty victim with different financial priorities.

Not sure what they can get for HBAP but hopefully something good like Boozer, Lee, Nene, KG.