Pre-Draft Thread / Workout Updates

[Klomp]

Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.

Aaaaaaaand sigged

[Devilzsidewalk]

Sam Amico

Also, according to those within organization, Cavs lukewarm on Victor Oladipo or Anthony Bennett at #1, going back & forth on Noel/McLemore.

The Cavs are trading out. Who can give them more? Suns with 3 + 30 + who?

I don't get the big story that Amico is breaking with that quote, wouldn't almost every team be lukewarm on Oladipo or Bennet at #1 and going back and forth on Noel/McLemore?

[Howard Cosell]

That quote is not the story...but combined it with this:

Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO 3h
Source adds that Cavs have talked to one team in particular a couple times about No. 1 pick, but it's exploratory only at this stage.





Sam Amico Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO 3h
Cavs have been working on "something major," says source. But no details given due to the magnitude.

and add this:

Flip is now suddenly meeting with Oladipo tomorrow morning a week after Oladipo's agent says Flip would have to give them a workable plan on how the Twolves would be able to move up to get his client in the draft.



Cle went after Sved last year in a duel with the Twolves.


We may have a story.

[Esohny]

Are there a lot of pauses in it? That's not fun. Also, I hope they don't try to ram a moral down our throat, I'd prefer that the story was an allegory. It's more subtle. In addition to that, I think it would be cool if Paul Hogan was a character in the story.

[Howard Cosell]

Are there a lot of pauses in it?

Just enough so you can follow it.

[horaceworthy]

Versajao + #1 for Williams, Ridnour, Shved #9

Rubio/Barea
Oladipo/MLE/Lee
AK/Bud/#26
Love/Cunningham
Pek/Verajao/Johnson

I see the massive injury issues with AV, but to me this is kind of like Williams/9 for Afflalo/2 that gets floated out now and then. NBA teams aren't always renowned for their common sense, but it's tough for me to see trades where there's a solid argument the Wolves are upgrading the current roster and getting the better pick going down.

Still, that's definitely a trade I could get behind. I like KCP enough that I'm not all that desperate for the Wolves to trade up, but a Pek/Love/Oladipo/Rubio core would be sick, and a healthy AK, AV, Bud and even Barea is a nice veteran supporting cast with playoff experience.

[PG24]

Cavs get: #5 + Derrick Williams + JJ Barea
Cavs give: #1 + #19 + Anderson Varejao

Cleveland gets Williams, a player they've been highly interested in since landing the #1 overall in 2011. Dropping four spots to #5 provides the opportunity for them to still draft a coveted prospect in Alex Len, for example.

Suns get: #9 + #19
Suns give: #5

Suns are in asset collection mode and this seems to be at least in the ballpark of fair value for the #5; it's well known they want another 1st round draft pick.

Wolves get: #1 + Anderson Varejao
Wolves give: #9 + Derrick Williams + JJ Barea

Minnesota gets their guy Victor Oladipo along with an excellent backup big in Varejao, whose contract expires JIT to start paying Rubio his post rookie salary.

[Nitroglycerin]

#9, D-will, Shved, Ridnour(expiring) would be a very enticing deal for the Cavs for #1 and Varejao.. And maybe a filler like Ellington?
Cavs get two promising young players, an expiring for 2014, and they can draft a project big at #9
Twolves would be a sure playoff team on paper. A Pek-AV-Love big man rotation is sick if they are healthy. Im just concerned how AV's salary would affect our flexibility in resigning Pek,AK and Bud
That question is not if its an overpay for us but is Oladipo/Mclemore worth it. This deal would put us all in hoping for Oladipo/Mclemore to be a stud

[shrink]

Are there a lot of pauses in it? That's not fun. Also, I hope they don't try to ram a moral down our throat, I'd prefer that the story was an allegory. It's more subtle. In addition to that, I think it would be cool if Paul Hogan was a character in the story.

:: Slow Clap! ::

[shrink]

I just want to point out that Varejao is a negative contract, because he always misses so many games. For example, do you think he's one of the league's premier rebounders? In nine seasons, he's never finished in the Top 35.

He is not worth a contract that pays him $9.5 mil next year with it's trade kicker.

Varejao .. a top 3 rebounder in the league

What year was that? What I see is a guy that's been overpaid for his contribution three straight years.

2012-13 361 RB, 96th in NBA,
2011-12 287 RB, 94th in NBA,
2010-11 301 RB, 123rd in NBA
2009-10 578 RB, 36th in NBA
2008-09 581 RB, 33rd in NBA
2007-08 399 RB, 81st in NBA
2006-07 545 RB, 37th in NBA
2005-06 235 RB, 175th in NBA
2004-05 257 RB, 151st in NBA

[[RCG]]

Cavaliers have cap-space, don't they? Couldn't they absorb our players?
I do agree that Varejao isn't that valuable because he can't stay healthy.
I'd willingly trade D.Will + Shved + Barea + #9 for #1 + #19.

#1: Oladipo
#19: Dieng
#26: Rice Jr.

Rubio/Ridnour
Oladipo/Rice Jr.
Kirilenko/Budinger
Love/Cunningham
Pekovic/Dieng/Stiemsma

[GopherIt!]

I'd love to know how many times Pek can do 185. I'll say 140 times.

140 with impecable form.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I'd love to know how many times Pek can do 185. I'll say 140 times.

140 with impecable form.

or perhaps.....impekable form?

[[RCG]]

I'd love to know how many times Pek can do 185. I'll say 140 times.

140 with impecable form.

or perhaps.....impekable form?

Win.

[shrink]

Cavaliers have cap-space, don't they? Couldn't they absorb our players?

They will have cap space, but two weeks after the draft.

With the media and marketing surrounding a #1 pick, I can't see a handshake deal holding up. It's the same reason that using sign-and-trades are unlikely.

[[RCG]]

Cavaliers have cap-space, don't they? Couldn't they absorb our players?

They will have cap space, but two weeks after the draft.

With the media and marketing surrounding a #1 pick, I can't see a handshake deal holding up. It's the same reason that using sign-and-trades are unlikely.

In that case Varejao is fine but I'd want the #31 & #33 back too.

#1: Victor Oladipo
#26: Jeff Withey
Look at Rice Jr., Snell, Kabongo with #31 & #33.

Rubio/Ridnour
Oladipo/Budinger
Kirilenko/Budinger
Love/Varejao/Cunningham
Pekovic/Varejao/Withey

[tranjSAIC]

I just want to point out that Varejao is a negative contract

Don't tell that to Cav fans, I think they expect to get a lotto pick or something crazy for Varejao. I doubt they would be interested in the above deal as well.

[shrink]

I just want to point out that Varejao is a negative contract

Don't tell that to Cav fans, I think they expect to get a lotto pick or something crazy for Varejao.

You're right.

I still try to tell them though. I just don't get anywehre.

[Krapinsky]

Versajao + #1 for Williams, Ridnour, Shved #9

Rubio/Barea
Oladipo/MLE/Lee
AK/Bud/#26
Love/Cunningham
Pek/Verajao/Johnson

I see the massive injury issues with AV, but to me this is kind of like Williams/9 for Afflalo/2 that gets floated out now and then. NBA teams aren't always renowned for their common sense, but it's tough for me to see trades where there's a solid argument the Wolves are upgrading the current roster and getting the better pick going down.

Still, that's definitely a trade I could get behind. I like KCP enough that I'm not all that desperate for the Wolves to trade up, but a Pek/Love/Oladipo/Rubio core would be sick, and a healthy AK, AV, Bud and even Barea is a nice veteran supporting cast with playoff experience.

I think it's a trade that works for both teams, depending on the direction the Cavs want to go. After the lottery there were rumblings that the Cavs wanted to deal the #1 pick for someone already established in the league, which is why we heard the ridiculous Love and Aldridge "rumors." After exploring the market for a veteran, and perhaps finding no decent offers, it's possible that they decided a more ready young player like Williams (who they also liked at draft time) plus additional assets is the best way to go.

Williams (as a 3/4) could play often with Thompson who is is more of a 4/5. Although 82games stats don't reflect this, Thompson played a majority of his rookie season at center. Athletic and with a 9'0.5" reach and a 7"1.5" wingspan he certainly has the size to fill that position at least part time. Arguably Thompson's offensive game fits better next to Williams than Noel's does. Noel and Thompson would give them two front court players that can't step away very far from the basket.

At 9, they could still grab Adams to develop as a center or even Muhammad who would fit their roster nicely as a 2-3. Perhaps they could even use Shved or the #19 to move up and get Len, or even still get Noel should he surprisingly begin to fall.

Value wise, I think it's fair when you break it down and analyze it as two separate trades:

1) Williams + #9 for #1

I personally think this is more than fair, for a few reasons. From MN's perspective, at least as publicly stated (i.e. Flip), trading Williams + #9 to move up for Oladipo (or any player in this draft for that matter) is too much. Moreover, various reports are beginning to paint the picture that there are few tiers, if any, at the top of this draft. The Cavs have been rumored to be considering up to 4 players at #1 and the Magic 9 players at #2. At this time of year everyone falls in love with the potential of these prospects, but the reality is many of them will not be able to contribute much for a year or two at best, and a few of them will out right bust. Williams may not be a budding superstar, but he has shown enough promise that at least one objective scout (according to Zgoda) said he would be top 5 in this draft and is probably better than any player in the draft for the time being.

2) Ridnour + Shved for Verajao

Verajao's value is very much in the eye of the beholder depending on whether one is looking at him as a glass half full or half empty. What we do know is when he is not injured he can play like a top center in the league, but that he is very rarely healthy. Because of his injury history there isn't a team out there crazy enough to pencil him in as their starting center next year without legitimate fall back options. His latest season injury -- a blood clot -- is mildly concerning because 20% of people with leg blood clots have another within 2 years. To complicate matters Verajao is paid $9M in the last year of his deal and has a partially guaranteed deal next year at 50% of $9.7M. At this point it's no guarantee that a team would want to pick up that option and looking long term, a team might not want to offer a long term deal to such an injury prone player. Because of his near all-star potential when healthy, I think he has value greater than merely an expiring dead weight contract -- which is probably Ridnour's value at this point. Ridnour is 32 and his time in the league is probably coming to a close. He'll be in adequate back up for another year or two, until he reaches full on Steve Blake mode. Shved adds some value from our end -- keep in mind he is already 24 -- and has a friendly enough contract to make up for any additional value the potential possibility of an actually healthy and productive Verajao is worth.

[Klomp]

Doogie is bringing up an interesting point on radio. Any trade of our pick cannot happen until after the pick is made because we traded last year's 1st to Houston (Sepien rule)