Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII

[Ruzious]

Tomorrow's the big day!

http://www.nba.com/wizards/2013-draft-central

Porter, 5 Others to Workout on Friday

The following players are currently scheduled to participate in Friday's workout: Jackie Carmichael (Illinois St), Kevin Dillard (Dayton), Ryan Evans (Wisconsin), Viktor Gaddefors (Sweeden), Bruce Massey (Middle Tennessee), & Otto Porter (Georgetown).

Can't wait to see if they have extra comments about him or if he gets a interview video.

Dillard is a skinny 5'10.75 but has a 6'7 wingspan http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kev ... ard-21265/. Jeebus, does he have to hold up his hands to make sure they don't hit the ground when he walks?

[Nivek]

Very interesting take on Steven Adams from Chris Mannix in his latest mock. He has Adams going 19th to Cleveland.

Adams is a project; the consensus among executives is that he will spend most or all of next season in the D-League, where he can get used to the speed of an NBA-level game. But Cleveland isn't thinking title next season and it can afford to be patient because Adams oozes potential. At 7 feet, 254 pounds, with a wingspan of 7-5 and enormous hands(9.5 inches long, 11 inches wide), Adams is a physical specimen with extraordinary athletic ability who showed nice range for a big man at the combine.

If Adams really is going to slip as far as 19, he'd be a terrific guy to target if the Wizards could trade for another pick in the first round.

[pancakes3]

With the Thunder, Mavs, and Celtics at 12, 13, and 16, I would be beyond surprised to see Adams go 19th.

[deneem4]

I see porter ceiling as being jimmy butler or iman shumpert... what yall think?...

Porter is a significantly better offensive player than those guys. Definitely not the athlete Shumpert is. And definitely doesn't have the body Butler has. They're all pretty different players.

I see butler and shumpert as the 2 closest nba players actually...theyre both young and top elite defenders...as 2nd yr players theyre the only ones can impact lebrom while guarding him...if deng was out for the season like rose I think jimmy couldve had a paul george type season...ssme with shumpert if carmelo was out...butler ability to put the ball on the floor nd get to the line is incredible for a 2nd yr player...shumpert can create his own shot and drive effectively...

Offensively theyre both weapoms as well
Both shot 40% fgs and jimmy shot 40% from 3 with 13pts 5 rebs while shumpert shot 43% 10pts 6 rebs in the playoffs

Shumpert 6'6/6'9 wingspan 220 42in vert
Butler 6'8/6'8 wingspan 220 40in vert
Porter 6'8/7'1 wingspan 200 36iinvert

Porter athleticism worries me, and hes not that strong...he wont be able to guard the elite sf in the nba...I think his ceiling could be they play off level on a wizards team...
14/6 40%
But the irony is they were both low 1st rd picks...

Theyre the type of player we need...especially next to wall...il rther focus that 3rd pick on a pick and pop option like zeller, even though I think we should stay far away from big men in the draft, nonody likes the idea of the ersan trade.

If we had to get a pick il take victor...he'll be an undersized 4 but with nene and okafor downlown and alot of teams playing small ball, we can survive...

This is a weak draft picking the safest player makes the decision even more weak...

[stevemcqueen1]

You can't talk about Zeller's Syracuse game without mentioning that the team went 3/15 from 3 and Yogi Ferrell and Jordan Hulls didn't make a single shot. Syracuse geared their entire defense to stopping Zeller and he had to do it all and against doubles and triples with no space. He didn't play well, but I doubt anyone in the country could have under the circumstances. I'd speculate that Zeller saw more double and triple teams this year than anyone in the country outside the kid from Creighton.

It was as wrong and as much of an overreaction to pan Zeller off that game as it was to pan Harden for his tourney games. It was also flat out wrong to deny his athleticism, it was obvious to me from watching his games, and the people who are still denying it now are still shoveling the same pile of horse poo they were before the combine test results proved them unequivocally wrong. If Zeller were not a White American player, it would have been immediately taken for granted he was an excellent athlete.

I'm glad people are coming around on him.

[TGW]

I think Porter played at 205 last year at G-town, I'd like to know where he's at right now. At the very least he recognizes it as an issue. I think 225-232 should be his target over the next two seasons.

He weighed in at 198 lbs at the combine. That is super skinny, although he did 9 reps on the bench press which is pretty good considering his long arms and skinny frame.

[dobrojim]

kev said paraphrase

Adams would be an attractive target outside the lotto

so you're actually saying you'd rather have Adams than Jason Collins.

Hater

[Dat2U]

Steven Adams is so incredibly raw and for his gigantic hands, they don't seem to be very adept at catching passes cleanly or finishing around the rim.

I have trouble getting excited about Adams as a prospect. He's likely never going to be anything more than a grunt down low. His calling card is defense but his awareness doesn't seem to be a strong point and his defensive rebounding is subpar. The last two are big red flags for me, especially the lack rebounding considering his frame.

His success will totally depend on his work ethic and focus and honestly the laidback demeanor scares me a bit. He can't play in the league right now and is every bit the project Mannix suggested he is.

I wouldn't touch him in the first half of the 1st round. I think his real value is probably in the 20s. I think he's a high risk, medium reward type of player. He might the next Kendrick Perkins (before injuries) if he's serious or he might flame out in two years if he's got a casual attitude.

[hands11]

I dunno if this clip of Zeller's workout w/ the Kings has already been posted, but here you go:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abPOpSJ0ovQ[/youtube]

You get a nice look at Zeller's shooting form. His release point is a little low for my tastes, but it looks fluid and accurate.

Still waiting for Zeller to climb the board on DraftX

As film like that gets out, I think people are seriously going to take a second look.

I bashed him endlessly months ago when I though he would be a center and didn't know he had an outside shot, but its looking more and more like he actually might be on of the most polished players for his position. Burke being right up there with him.

This was my board in order the quality, not draft per se. This is what I put together several weeks ago and it hasn't changed.

Burke/Len/Otto
Zeller
McLemore
VO
CJM
Noel
Bennett
Adams
Shabazz

DraftX has

Noel
McLemore
Otto
Len
VO
Bennett
Burke
CJM
Shabbazz
Adam
Zeller

I don't doubt Noel get picked higher then in my list, but I really have concerns if he will be ranked there in 2 years. Zeller is going to be productive right away. Adams is going to likely be limited for years. Some with Noel. But who the hell really knows. You really only know one you see them on the court in the NBA. I don't really have enough hands on eye test and interaction with any of these players to really know.

[tontoz]

Adams is probably one of those guys who might be useful for his 2nd or 3rd team but probably not for the team that drafts him.

[Nivek]

Adams is rated high enough in YODA that I went back and double checked all his inputs because it seemed like he ranked too high based on eyeballing his numbers. His production wasn't great, but it was pretty good for a freshman playing for a team that competed well against a reasonably challenging schedule. He did a nice job of getting steals and blocking shots without fouling. He's fairly unique, but the "most similar" list includes Fab Melo as a soph (blech), but also Al Horford (FR), Gorgui Dieng (FR), and Andre Drummond (FR).

He's worth taking in the mid-first.

[Illuminaire]

My personal draft board is rounding out very similar to Nate's. I'd go Noel, Porter, then Zeller... and I'm still debating whether Zeller should be ahead of Porter.

I think that with NBA spacing and Cody's work ethic, he's going to surprise a lot of people - not just by scoring either. He has quick feet and plays smart defense. He's going to help teams on both ends of the court. If you put a gun to my head, I'd take Porter today. But I won't be surprised if he ends up being as good or better when we look back at this draft in a few years.

[nuposse04]

I see butler and shumpert as the 2 closest nba players actually...theyre both young and top elite defenders...as 2nd yr players theyre the only ones can impact lebrom while guarding him...if deng was out for the season like rose I think jimmy couldve had a paul george type season...ssme with shumpert if carmelo was out...butler ability to put the ball on the floor nd get to the line is incredible for a 2nd yr player...shumpert can create his own shot and drive effectively...

WTF. Why are you judging him by the standards of players who have already been in the NBA for a few seasons. Iman is a full 3 seasons older than him. Jimmy is nearly 4 years older as well. Also, Shumpert can't do anything against LBJ, there are probably only a few people in the NBA that can give him trouble...Those would be P. George, Butler, and Leonard. Shumpert definitely isn't one of them. Also, Butler averages 3.9 fta a game...Shumpert 1.7...and those are both per 36 numbers..Those aren't exactly all star type FT draws. Neither of them are particularly good in Iso situations, they're mainly catch and shoot guys. They can do some slashing but if you ask either of them to ISO, you're probably playing losing basketball.

Offensively theyre both weapoms as well
Both shot 40% fgs and jimmy shot 40% from 3 with 13pts 5 rebs while shumpert shot 43% 10pts 6 rebs in the playoffs

It isn't a good thing if your FG% is 40%. Oh and Jimmy's line was 8.6-4.1.4 this year and solid efficiency. Shumpert was 6.8-4-1.7 on bad efficiency (unless you use him only to shoot 3 pts). Jimmy might be a solid per 36 player in the future but definitely not Shumpert. Shumper IMO still has to prove himself before you can use per 35 extrapolations, Jimmy not as much.

Shumpert 6'6/6'9 wingspan 220 42in vert
Butler 6'8/6'8 wingspan 220 40in vert
Porter 6'8/7'1 wingspan 200 36iinvert

Max vert means nothing really. Standing vertical is a better indicator of explosiveness. Wingspan also means very little compared to standing reach, of which Porter has em all beat. Although he doesn't have the standing vertical of either of them but his standing reach makes up for it IMO.

Porter athleticism worries me, and hes not that strong...he wont be able to guard the elite sf in the nba...I think his ceiling could be they play off level on a wizards team...
14/6 40%
But the irony is they were both low 1st rd picks...

He's an OK athlete, no one is propping him up to be like Rudy gay or anything. His strength is an issue, but most guys come into the NBA not quite filled out. He just turned 20, he still has 2-3 years to add on good weight. So long as he adds 20 lbs, he'll be fine. As far as extrapolating his average...well I won't yet but I think I have a higher opinion of him then u, that's all I'll say.

Theyre the type of player we need...especially next to wall...il rther focus that 3rd pick on a pick and pop option like zeller, even though I think we should stay far away from big men in the draft, nonody likes the idea of the ersan trade.

Who is they? Zeller is an ok player...but you can trade down and acquire assets to get him. I don't see Zeller being a better player the Porter. I think they can get close...but I see Porter as a legit starter and borderline all star player. I see Zeller as the 2nd coming of Ersan. Not a bad player...but number 3 worthy.

If we had to get a pick il take victor...he'll be an undersized 4 but with nene and okafor downlown and alot of teams playing small ball, we can survive...

Wait...what...Victor? Oladipo? You think he can be an undersized 4? Hell its debatable he's an undersized 2 (although his standing reach makes up for it ) You're absolutely insane in thinking he could ever be an undersized 4.

This is a weak draft picking the safest player makes the decision even more weak...

Welp, never thought I'd see the day that I'm glad EG is making the pic as oppose to someone else.

[Dark Faze]

When I see Zeller I think of Griffin without the explosive stat sheet filling numbers while being just as average defensively.

He won't be a bust, but he won't do any one thing well enough to be worth a high pick either. He'll be great to have on a team that already has some nice pieces at other positions, but if you're looking for a second option, maybe even a third option I'm not sure Zeller is that.

Porter is similar to that in some ways, but his defensive upside and rebounding for the position have elite potential, whereas with Zeller I really don't see elite potential for any part of his game.

[pancakes3]

Steven Adams is so incredibly raw and for his gigantic hands, they don't seem to be very adept at catching passes cleanly or finishing around the rim.

I have trouble getting excited about Adams as a prospect. He's likely never going to be anything more than a grunt down low. His calling card is defense but his awareness doesn't seem to be a strong point and his defensive rebounding is subpar. The last two are big red flags for me, especially the lack rebounding considering his frame.

His success will totally depend on his work ethic and focus and honestly the laidback demeanor scares me a bit. He can't play in the league right now and is every bit the project Mannix suggested he is.

I wouldn't touch him in the first half of the 1st round. I think his real value is probably in the 20s. I think he's a high risk, medium reward type of player. He might the next Kendrick Perkins (before injuries) if he's serious or he might flame out in two years if he's got a casual attitude.

I look at the numbers per 40 and I think - huh, probably just a kid that the coach didn't want to play but ended up playing anyway. I have no feel for how good or bad his hands are or what his feel around the basket is but he scores at a good percentage and his TO's are low so you'll have to back up your claims with some clips if you want to do any real convincing.

[sfam]

I see porter ceiling as being jimmy butler or iman shumpert... what yall think?...

Porter is a significantly better offensive player than those guys. Definitely not the athlete Shumpert is. And definitely doesn't have the body Butler has. They're all pretty different players.

I see butler and shumpert as the 2 closest nba players actually...theyre both young and top elite defenders...as 2nd yr players theyre the only ones can impact lebrom while guarding him...if deng was out for the season like rose I think jimmy couldve had a paul george type season...ssme with shumpert if carmelo was out...butler ability to put the ball on the floor nd get to the line is incredible for a 2nd yr player...shumpert can create his own shot and drive effectively...

Offensively theyre both weapoms as well
Both shot 40% fgs and jimmy shot 40% from 3 with 13pts 5 rebs while shumpert shot 43% 10pts 6 rebs in the playoffs

Shumpert 6'6/6'9 wingspan 220 42in vert
Butler 6'8/6'8 wingspan 220 40in vert
Porter 6'8/7'1 wingspan 200 36iinvert

Porter athleticism worries me, and hes not that strong...he wont be able to guard the elite sf in the nba...I think his ceiling could be they play off level on a wizards team...
14/6 40%
But the irony is they were both low 1st rd picks...

Theyre the type of player we need...especially next to wall...il rther focus that 3rd pick on a pick and pop option like zeller, even though I think we should stay far away from big men in the draft, nonody likes the idea of the ersan trade.

If we had to get a pick il take victor...he'll be an undersized 4 but with nene and okafor downlown and alot of teams playing small ball, we can survive...

This is a weak draft picking the safest player makes the decision even more weak...

If you believe that one person out of Porter, Bennett, Olapido and Zeller will break out and have an all-star level career, it will suck looking back 3-5 years down the road if we picked poorly. The advantage of Porter is even if he ends up just a role player, he'll probably mesh well with our approach, so maybe it won't suck as much. But wow, I'd still hope we choose the one who ends up with an all-star level career. We really need a third building block to become bona fide.

[hands11]

I dunno if this clip of Zeller's workout w/ the Kings has already been posted, but here you go:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abPOpSJ0ovQ[/youtube]

You get a nice look at Zeller's shooting form. His release point is a little low for my tastes, but it looks fluid and accurate.

Just watch that video again. I think he is going to have to work on his pre shot form.

Right now he is catching and then actually bringing the ball down first before bringing it up. If he can drop that part, he will have a much quicker shot. But Zeller strikes me as the type that will really put in the work.

Funny, he kind of looks like Ves in a way. Only he seems smarter, more mature, more dedicated and has more skills.

[hands11]

Thanks for posting, key, and I agree with your assessment -- release is a little low (and he also brings the ball down much lower than he needs to), but there's a clear competence there.

While my clear preference remains for Porter, if he's off the board I think the Wiz could do a lot worse than Zeller at #3. No, he's not going to be a dominant defensive center, but I have a hard team seeing how he doesn't help a team offensively. It would be a low risk, low reward proposition.

If he were available in some sort of good trade down scenario, I'd consider it, especially if Porter is off the board.

Every time Zeller's name comes up, I keep trying to think of why he shouldn't go in the top 3 or 4, and I'm having trouble coming up with a good answer. He is a freak athlete. He was a very productive player in college. He is a winner. He is an extremely hard worker. He is skilled in the post and out on the perimeter. He plays a position of need.

Are we overthinking this? Why not just take him and be happy?

Over Bennett, hell yea. I never had Bennett over Zeller.

[hands11]

Is Zeller going to be that much better than Muscala to justify such a wide separation in draft rank? Don't know, just asking.

Much better athlete.

[Dark Faze]

Here's my thought process if I'm Ernie:

Let me get a foolproof core of young guys, extend our current guys to the length of Nenes contract and then make a run so that we look appealing to teams once the older guys expire.

We'll have a core of Wall/Beal/Porter. Wall will be maxed, Porter will be on his rookie contract, Beal will be a year or so away from an extension which will likely be non max.

Under that scenario you've got almost nothing to lose. Your major players are young and smart, learning from solid vets. Everyone else but them is gone and we have a lot of cap space to play with to get the best possible free agent big on the market.

With the pick we get next year we go after the highest upside big in the draft to hopefully get a Vucevic/Faried type of mid 1st talent.

That's why I'm not in a rush to move either Okafor or Nene right now.