The 2013 Trade Thread II

[Elden Payton]

Sessions is the Milwaukee franchise leader for assists in a game so he has positive history with the team.

Gooden+Henson+15

for

Sessions+Taylor+Haywood

??

I imagine we like Henson a lot but he'd have decent value, how would we land him+15?

[Eoghan]

Milwaukee fans are pretty gung ho on Henson. I'd be surprised if they part with him, especially after parting with Tobias Harris and looking dumb afterwards.

[JMAC3]

Deal could have to do with Ersan Ilyasova possibly, but idk.

Henson, Illyasova and 15th for Gordon and 4th.

[HornetJail]

Sessions is the Milwaukee franchise leader for assists in a game so he has positive history with the team.

Gooden+Henson+15

for

Sessions+Taylor+Haywood

??

I imagine we like Henson a lot but he'd have decent value, how would we land him+15?

thats a pipe dream. No way we get 15 in that deal unless its a deal around the 4th pick

[Liver_Pooty]

Milwaukee fans are pretty gung ho on Henson. I'd be surprised if they part with him, especially after parting with Tobias Harris and looking dumb afterwards.

Exactly, plus Henson has already put on a decent amount of muscle to his frame. Bucks aren't relinquishing him

[BigSlam]

I think I'd rather have LRM than Gooden. Gooden is pretty worthless and we already have one worthless PF on the roster. I like Ilyasova a lot, I think he'd fit our roster well but he's a bit overpaid.

Dont get me wrong - my trade suggestion wasn't based on me WANTING Gooden, he could rot on the bench for the next two seasons (until he expires). It was a salary dump opportunity for the Bucks which would net us the #15 pick.

Then we would have 15 mill coming off the books (him and Tyrus) at the end of 2014.

[doc.end]

I just explored some numbers and considering that Asik + Robinson being shooped as a package rumour, we can do swap them with Tyrus obviously (not gonna happen), or with a right combination of players. That would have to include Haywood which I believe is not tradeable till end of June. So I used next year salary numbers because of that. We could
1) do not care about matching salaries and absorbing ASik and robinson with sheer capspace (+ that 100k allowed) - which may not be plausible as we won't be under the cap initially because of our FA (and other) cap holds, in a hurry we would have to either rescind left and right or not being able to do the trade
2) send Tyrus Thomas instead; good luck, negotiate it with Houston, acquiring Tyrus Thomas in creating cap space trade is comical
3) Sessions, Haywood and not fully guaranteed contract of Jeff Adrien works almost perfectly just squeezing in what is minimal amount of what we have to send to Houston for Robinson and Asik while being over the cap and under the luxury tax cap before and after the trade. Which is a situation we can expect to be in early in the offseason considering Grodon opts in, Diop is rescind and all othe our FAs and the newly drafted player yet to be dealt with.
It doesn't work with Tyalor instead of Adrien (not sure whne his contract become guaranteed but if he could be let go, Rcokets could prefer him over Taylor anyway), btw.
So unless some sign and trade or other teams involved happen it would be:
Sessions + Haywood + Adrien (+ ?) for Asik + Robinson (+ ?)
We have our own 2016+ pick, DET pick, POR pick, future second round picks and it is rumoured DAL, MIL picks are ebing shopped around so maybe can do that as well
To match if neeed they have their own firsts starting from next year, PHX 2013 second rounder, and mix of their own and other teams future second rounders. And draft rights for several players like Llul, Aldemir, just check trade checker here.

4) I am not going to guess whether and how coul be sign and trade deals used in this one

What picks and other incentives would have to make desirable for all parts involved

[JMAC3]

I just explored some numbers and considering that Asik + Robinson being shooped as a package rumour, we can do swap them with Tyrus obviously (not gonna happen), or with a right combination of players. That would have to include Haywood which I believe is not tradeable till end of June. So I used next year salary numbers because of that. We could
1) do not care about matching salaries and absorbing ASik and robinson with sheer capspace (+ that 100k allowed) - which may not be plausible as we won't be under the cap initially because of our FA (and other) cap holds, in a hurry we would have to either rescind left and right or not being able to do the trade
2) send Tyrus Thomas instead; good luck, negotiate it with Houston, acquiring Tyrus Thomas in creating cap space trade is comical
3) Sessions, Haywood and not fully guaranteed contract of Jeff Adrien works almost perfectly just squeezing in what is minimal amount of what we have to send to Houston for Robinson and Asik while being over the cap and under the luxury tax cap before and after the trade. Which is a situation we can expect to be in early in the offseason considering Grodon opts in, Diop is rescind and all othe our FAs and the newly drafted player yet to be dealt with.
It doesn't work with Tyalor instead of Adrien (not sure whne his contract become guaranteed but if he could be let go, Rcokets could prefer him over Taylor anyway), btw.
So unless some sign and trade or other teams involved happen it would be:
Sessions + Haywood + Adrien (+ ?) for Asik + Robinson (+ ?)
We have our own 2016+ pick, DET pick, POR pick, future second round picks and it is rumoured DAL, MIL picks are ebing shopped around so maybe can do that as well
To match if neeed they have their own firsts starting from next year, PHX 2013 second rounder, and mix of their own and other teams future second rounders. And draft rights for several players like Llul, Aldemir, just check trade checker here.

4) I am not going to guess whether and how coul be sign and trade deals used in this one

What picks and other incentives would have to make desirable for all parts involved

HUH!!!!!

It was my impression that Rockets were trying to remove Robinson from payroll to get either Paul or Howard. Taking back a bad contract in Tyrus, makes no sense, because it does not open caproom and when they miss on Howard they basically would of given Asik and Robinson away for nothing. Same goes for taking Sessions and Haywood. They just want to remove cap without taking it back on... they need it for this offseason not next.

At least I think thats what you were trying to say, but honestly I was confused the whole time reading it...

[doc.end]

Ok, I need to use ignore poster feature more it seems. Ignoring the numbers when reacting to post which is basically all about numebrs and possible legal trades is... perplexing.

[BeesWax]

Ok, I need to use ignore poster feature more it seems. Ignoring the numbers when reacting to post which is basically all about numebrs and possible legal trades is... perplexing.

You made perfect sense. I think we could do 1 if we rescind Mullens only even with Henderson and rookie cap holds. If that is the case this would be a no brainer I think.

[MasterIchiro]

I get the gist of what you are saying. You're saying in order for Houston to package Asik and Thomas Robinson they will have to absorb some incoming salary from most teams (if not all teams). The trick is to find a way to make it work for both parties.

If the Bobcats want to go that route and try to land Asik and T-Rob in a salary dump, they will likely have to pull some other maneuvers such as not sign Hendo and McRoberts. The only way to not sign Hendo is to draft his replacement and we still don't know and won't know until draft day if the Bobcats like Oladipo or McLemore at 4 and what they would do if one or both are not available. Me personally, I would not trade the pick if McLemore is available. If he's not available that likely means Oladipo is and I would look to Minnesota in that instance or Sacramento if they like the pick at 4.

I'll tell you what would be a coup though... We add Asik and T-Rob and McLemore on draft day. And we do it cheaply (POR pick and Sessions), and use the Bucks' pick at 15 to replace Sessions with a cheap backup.

Then we head into the 2014 draft with our own pick plus the DET pick and this:

Kemba/pick 15
McLemore/pick15
MKG/Taylor
Biz/T-Rob
Asik/Biz

How can anyone not love that setup?

[Eoghan]

I think I'd rather have LRM than Gooden. Gooden is pretty worthless and we already have one worthless PF on the roster. I like Ilyasova a lot, I think he'd fit our roster well but he's a bit overpaid.

Dont get me wrong - my trade suggestion wasn't based on me WANTING Gooden, he could rot on the bench for the next two seasons (until he expires). It was a salary dump opportunity for the Bucks which would net us the #15 pick.

Then we would have 15 mill coming off the books (him and Tyrus) at the end of 2014.

That would be a definitive tank move, having almost half of our bigs rot on the bench in the form of Gooden and TT. I don't know if our FO would go for a move that tank-tastic this late in the rebuild b/c I really do think 2014 is when we try to pull up out of the nosedive. The #15 in this draft just doesn't seem worth it to me.

------------------------------------------

I'm not as enthusiastic about adding T-Rob as some of you. It's not very often a top 5 pick gets bounced around twice as a rookie and starts playing like the top 5 pick he was supposed to be. I understand the Rockets dropping him for purely from a business perspective but even the Kings didn't want him? The same team that holds on to Tyreke Evans and Jimmer, plus continuing to start Mr. Irrelevant at PG? Robinson couldn't find minutes on this team? That's really concerning.

[JMAC3]

Ok, I need to use ignore poster feature more it seems. Ignoring the numbers when reacting to post which is basically all about numebrs and possible legal trades is... perplexing.

I am just saying what would be the point of the trade for Houston. You seem to explain how it would be beneficial to us, by going on and listing all the other assets we would still have.

However, how does it help Houston?

I hardly doubt they are really going to risk giving Asik and Robinson go for basically nothing for a chance to sign Howard or Paul. When they could easily just pawn Robinson off by himself, and receive the same amount of capspace relief, while keeping Asik in case they miss on Howard.

[doc.end]

I excluded picks etc. from trades. I just posted what would be legal and what contracts fit needed numbers. All based on that rumour someone posted on this board that not only Rockets are going to offload Robinson to make just a bit more cap space they need but that they would do it by packing him with Asik and deal them as one piece together. Which make sense as if they get Howard having Asik is a bit of luxury. What they would want to get back is their problem I can't say. I assume they still need to dump roughly amount equaled to Robinson salary only and if more then be it. I can only figure out what it would have to be in terms of match rather than value - value is ine the of beholder. If Bobcats only are included it would be either (assuming our rookies are untochable):
1) cap space - we would have to be almost 12M below the cap; not doable in June, so no draft night trade

- matching numbers - we can be over the cap otherwise we could just use the cap space (+ that 100k allowed); not sending more than necessary
2) Tyrus Thomas - just in theory ; could happen immediately or in offseason, both numbers work
3) Session, Haywood, Adrien package - numbers work, now throw in value not affecting salary to make it work ; have to be done in offseason for numerous reasons actually; we are absorbing nearly 4M for next season, further future may be even more interesting for Rockets as only Haywood is not an expiring

4) using sign and trade - watch out for BYC though

For confused http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nba_salary_cap
For numbers to check http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/
http://storytellerscontracts.com/ both have the same numbers so good enough for me to rely on. Buy I save you the trouble to do the math.

Now whether we or Houston should od it and which picks, draft rights, financial compensation and what not should be inbcluded, that's another story.

[HornetJail]

Charlotte in:
John Henson
Drew Gooden
Luc Richard Mbah A Moute
#15

Milwaukee in:
#4
Ben Gordon

Who says no?

[mlloyd10]

Bucks Fan here......Henson and Sanders are the only 2 untouchables we have

[mlloyd10]

Charlotte in:
John Henson
Drew Gooden
Luc Richard Mbah A Moute
#15

Milwaukee in:
#4
Ben Gordon

Who says no?

Bucks.....In this draft henson would be a top 5 pick

[BeesWax]

Bucks Fan here......Henson and Sanders are the only 2 untouchables we have

Then you have very little by the way of tradable pieces.

[mlloyd10]

Drew Gooden+Luc Richard Mbah a Moute+Pick #15

for

Tyrus Thomas+Jeff Taylor

No thanks. Thomas is a black hole.

Gooden, Moute, #15 for Gordon and Taylor?

[mlloyd10]

Bucks Fan here......Henson and Sanders are the only 2 untouchables we have

Then you have very little by the way of tradable pieces.

Ilyasova is available, Dont know if you would want him