Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII

[The Consiglieri]

Why is Victor Oladipo not a top 3 pick?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk4XNbRYhKA[/youtube]

The same reason Steph Curry went #7 after Haseem Thabeet went #2 and Jonny Flynn went #6.

He's in the running w/the Cavs, and the Magic. He is a top 3 pick potentially. As for liabilities. Dude was a non-entity in terms of being a complete player till his junior year, and didn't shoot great till then either. Was not rated, essentially.

So there are plenty of questions. Small sample size in terms of his production as a shooter.

On the positive side, he's a magnificent defender, an outstanding worker, tremendously athletic, and did shoot well his final year.

[WizarDynasty]

sfam trust your gut instincts, you are right. bennett is definitely second best prospect and way better than Porter for the wizards. If you could go back in time, 90 percent of the posters here bashed me for thinking that Derrick Williams was a horrible pick. If only you could go back in the threads.

I can go back in time! Let's see who WizNasty wanted us to pick....

Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

Unread postby WizarDynasty on Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:41 pm
http://youtu.be/UvrLlx1KDLE?t=49m12s

He has excellent hands and he is an excellent perimeter defender. He becomes our best perimeter defender and he has he highest offensive and defensive IQ on his first day of the team. Teams couldn't leave him wide open on the perimeter on offense either if he closely paid attention. He isn't a dead eye shooter but he is a threat. He isn't going to create offense with his iso moves but he can match up with much smaller players on the perimeter and would punish and opposing team for using a shooting guard as a pretend small forward. He would abuse nick young if young were to play small forward yet he would easily be able to keep up with him defensively out on the perimeter. Vesely is a cornerstone player and a starter.

Never mind, i would take Kanter over Vesely but Vesely will turn out to be the more important player.

0

Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

Postby WizarDynasty on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:46 pm
get out of the guys personal life. His personal life should have nothing to do with the idea that he usually outperforms the his counterpart each game. If each our starters outperformed their counterpart, we would have won alot more games.
Judge a player based on how many times the won the matchup against the other starter out of 82 games, you then will gain more credibility.
We suck because we don't have reliable performance from our bigs coming off the bench. You aren't going to win in the nba when you don't have a big off the bench that both score and play defense against another legitimate big. We had rookies and Yi, and Armstrong.
You need a quality nba big---booker is a center with a small forwards body---and seraphin who makes one assist every 68 minutes.
No team in the league will win a game with the bigs we had coming off our bench. Number on priority is getting a high iq big--someone 6'9 not 6'6. vucevic at the bare minimum...i advocate tyler but wizards fans seem to hate a player if they show they are independent thinker--and love to judge based on off court action rather than what they do on the court

Yeah I was definitely wrong about Vesely's ability to hit a jumpshot but clearly my assumption in this post was that he actually could hit a jumpshot and not airball free throws. I clearly liked Vucevic as my bare minimum because he fit my signature.
I wonder why my ability to go back to my old post has been disabled by the mods on this board for some strange reason.

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[Knighthonor]

sfam trust your gut instincts, you are right. bennett is definitely second best prospect and way better than Porter for the wizards. If you could go back in time, 90 percent of the posters here bashed me for thinking that Derrick Williams was a horrible pick. If only you could go back in the threads.

I can go back in time! Let's see who WizNasty wanted us to pick....

Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

Unread postby WizarDynasty on Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:41 pm
http://youtu.be/UvrLlx1KDLE?t=49m12s

He has excellent hands and he is an excellent perimeter defender. He becomes our best perimeter defender and he has he highest offensive and defensive IQ on his first day of the team. Teams couldn't leave him wide open on the perimeter on offense either if he closely paid attention. He isn't a dead eye shooter but he is a threat. He isn't going to create offense with his iso moves but he can match up with much smaller players on the perimeter and would punish and opposing team for using a shooting guard as a pretend small forward. He would abuse nick young if young were to play small forward yet he would easily be able to keep up with him defensively out on the perimeter. Vesely is a cornerstone player and a starter.

Never mind, i would take Kanter over Vesely but Vesely will turn out to be the more important player.

0

Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

Postby WizarDynasty on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:46 pm
get out of the guys personal life. His personal life should have nothing to do with the idea that he usually outperforms the his counterpart each game. If each our starters outperformed their counterpart, we would have won alot more games.
Judge a player based on how many times the won the matchup against the other starter out of 82 games, you then will gain more credibility.
We suck because we don't have reliable performance from our bigs coming off the bench. You aren't going to win in the nba when you don't have a big off the bench that both score and play defense against another legitimate big. We had rookies and Yi, and Armstrong.
You need a quality nba big---booker is a center with a small forwards body---and seraphin who makes one assist every 68 minutes.
No team in the league will win a game with the bigs we had coming off our bench. Number on priority is getting a high iq big--someone 6'9 not 6'6. vucevic at the bare minimum...i advocate tyler but wizards fans seem to hate a player if they show they are independent thinker--and love to judge based on off court action rather than what they do on the court

Yeah I was definitely wrong about Vesely's ability to hit a jumpshot but clearly my assumption in this post was that he actually could hit a jumpshot and not airball free throws. I clearly liked Vucevic as my bare minimum because he fit my signature.
I wonder why my ability to go back to my old post has been disabled by the mods on this board for some strange reason.

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Again I ask whats your opinion on those three players.

[The Consiglieri]

Anyone read the piece at truthaboutit on Oladipo and Jordan? Great Read.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/the ... ordan.html

The article before that is also very interesting (detailing pro's and con's with Len and Noel).

After reading that, I may be on the Oladipo bandwagon. It's just too bad I get zero sense whatsoever we're interested (and I kinda think he's gonna go 1 or 2 in a surprise).

[The Consiglieri]

okay, and now I'm done reading it, and I'm straight up sold. There are some concerns. I hate that he's a junior, I hate that there's all of one year of quality shooting to his C.V., but so what, everything I've read in that article screams, "PICK HIM YOU IDIOT, it's like '84 all over again," and I've ALWAYS been a big believer in taking the best player in terms of potential on the board. After reading that, it seems clear Oladipo is that guy, and I'd rather have duplication and greatness at the 2, then greatness at the 1 and 2, and a role player somewhere else (which is what Otto sounds like to me, at best).

Really frustrating to be nearly 100% sure we aren't interested, and are just going to go for adequate (Porter), or size (Len). Maybe we go for Bennett which makes me happy, but that tweet didn't help his cause any (and is an absolutely idiotic comment to make 2 weeks out from the draft).

My new board:

1. Noel (getting really nervous about that injury history)
2. Oladipo (only worried about the junior year issue)
3. Bennett (also nervous about the injury history)
4. McLemore (nervous about the Rush comps, and the down size)
5. Porter (nervous about his low ceiling, lack of athleticism)
6. Len (worried about his inability to impose his will on a game virtually ever)

[nate33]

okay, and now I'm done reading it, and I'm straight up sold. There are some concerns. I hate that he's a junior, I hate that there's all of one year of quality shooting to his C.V., but so what, everything I've read in that article screams, "PICK HIM YOU IDIOT, it's like '84 all over again," and I've ALWAYS been a big believer in taking the best player in terms of potential on the board. After reading that, it seems clear Oladipo is that guy, and I'd rather have duplication and greatness at the 2, then greatness at the 1 and 2, and a role player somewhere else (which is what Otto sounds like to me, at best).

Really frustrating to be nearly 100% sure we aren't interested, and are just going to go for adequate (Porter), or size (Len). Maybe we go for Bennett which makes me happy, but that tweet didn't help his cause any (and is an absolutely idiotic comment to make 2 weeks out from the draft).

My new board:

1. Noel (getting really nervous about that injury history)
2. Oladipo (only worried about the junior year issue)
3. Bennett (also nervous about the injury history)
4. McLemore (nervous about the Rush comps, and the down size)
5. Porter (nervous about his low ceiling, lack of athleticism)
6. Len (worried about his inability to impose his will on a game virtually ever)

I just got done reading that article and was getting ready to post a link, but you beat me to it.

Yes, that article went a long way towards convincing me that Oladipo should be in consideration at #3. It sounds like his work ethic is ridiculous - reminiscent of Gilbert Arenas. He's got all of the smarts, intangibles and general feel to the game that Porter has, but he's also a freak athlete with a "wow factor" that could lead to stardom. It's interesting that he rebounds as well as Porter (who is a good rebounder in his own right) despite being 6-4.

[Knighthonor]

Anyone read the piece at truthaboutit on Oladipo and Jordan? Great Read.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/the ... ordan.html

The article before that is also very interesting (detailing pro's and con's with Len and Noel).

After reading that, I may be on the Oladipo bandwagon. It's just too bad I get zero sense whatsoever we're interested (and I kinda think he's gonna go 1 or 2 in a surprise).

I still want an answer as to why this guy not going Top 3. Asking should he go top three seem more like the easier question to answer. The harder would be why isn't he going top 3

[nate33]

Wizard fans have never seen a front court player on their team get close to 500 FTM a season

Few people have. In the past 10 years, only 7 front court players have made 500 free throws: Dwight, Dirk, Stoudemire, Bosh, Lebron, Durant and Carmelo. That's it. And my guess is that Dirk, Bosh and Durant wouldn't have even met WizD's criteria of "finishing through contact" based on their build when they were drafted.

[nate33]

Anyone read the piece at truthaboutit on Oladipo and Jordan? Great Read.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/the ... ordan.html

The article before that is also very interesting (detailing pro's and con's with Len and Noel).

After reading that, I may be on the Oladipo bandwagon. It's just too bad I get zero sense whatsoever we're interested (and I kinda think he's gonna go 1 or 2 in a surprise).

I still want an answer as to why this guy not going Top 3. Asking should he go top three seem more like the easier question to answer. The harder would be why isn't he going top 3

The concern with Oladipo is that his usage rate is so low. He averaged just 13.6 points per game as a junior, which is anemic. On a pace adjusted per 40 minute basis, he averaged 18.8 points, which is okay, but nothing to write home about. He's basically only scoring on the fast break or when Zeller draws enough defensive attention to set him up for an open look. Now, that speaks highly of his basketball IQ and his understanding of the difference between a good shot and a bad shot, but it also casts a lot of doubt on his ability to create his own shot at the next level.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I of course could be wrong.

"You may be wrong, oh whoa I know, but you may be right!" - Billy Joel

We all could be wrong. This draft and these prospects are probably the hardest to forcast than any draft before.

It'll be funny if Ernie deals the pick for a vet and relegates these entire 700+ posts and all the time spent reading these into a colossal waste of time.

[WizarDynasty]

Anyone read the piece at truthaboutit on Oladipo and Jordan? Great Read.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/the ... ordan.html

The article before that is also very interesting (detailing pro's and con's with Len and Noel).

After reading that, I may be on the Oladipo bandwagon. It's just too bad I get zero sense whatsoever we're interested (and I kinda think he's gonna go 1 or 2 in a surprise).

I still want an answer as to why this guy not going Top 3. Asking should he go top three seem more like the easier question to answer. The harder would be why isn't he going top 3

The concern with Oladipo is that his usage rate is so low. He averaged just 13.6 points per game as a junior, which is anemic. On a pace adjusted per 40 minute basis, he averaged 18.8 points, which is okay, but nothing to write home about. He's basically only scoring on the fast break or when Zeller draws enough defensive attention to set him up for an open look. Now, that speaks highly of his basketball IQ and his understanding of the difference between a good shot and a bad shot, but it also casts a lot of doubt on his ability to create his own shot at the next level.

Coming close to 500....Let just say 450 for guy approaching 500.

Going back since 1999 not one single front court player from the washington wizards has ever aproach 500 FTM. We are talking about a 14 year span, and you guys don't think that's a problem.

Lets check espn stats--1999---alot more than seven front court players.

1.Karl malone, 2.Kemp, 3.duncan, 4.abdur rahim, 5.stackhouse, 6.grant hill, 7.shaq, 8dirk, 9.paul pierce, 10.maggette, 11.carmelo, 12.lebron, 13.amare, 14.richard jefferson, 15.chris bosh, 16.d.howard, 17.kevin durant, 18.blake griffin 19. Garnett 20. Brand

That's alot more than 7. I am pretty sure the list goes further if i go back 20 years. Not one single front court player for the wizards has ever approached 500 FTM made. I think I can make an effective conclusion that no wizards fans have ever witnessed a front court player who has shown elite level FTM made production in a wizard uniform ever if the criteria is 450 FTM or more in one season.
grunfeld has shown he isn't qualified to find these type of players and the fans haven't seen it with their own eyes. HUGE PROBLEMO!!

so ok, the only person who has come close was jerry stackhouse almost 10 years ago, and he had 455 FTM in a wizard uniform almost 10 years ago and he was at the tail end of his career. Jordan brought him in and trade richard Hamilton...a guy who never approached that number in his career.
Getting a front court player with this potential would be huge step up from getting a glue guy low ceiling player like Porter. Porter is never going to get close to 500 FTM a season. Bal isn't. Wall might. Can we for one time in the entire history of wizard realgm board, come up with a plausible scenario of us getting a front court player not at the end of his career with the ability to generate 500 FTM. 500 FTM for a front court is a special number that the wizards haven't figure out yet.


What brilliant pretend Wizard GM can solve the 20 year old problem? Certainly not Grunfeld. can you? ARe you that Brilliant PRETEND REALGM that can save the organization with thinking that hasn't existed before?s That is the challenge? What is the common denominator that all front court players had? Can we spot a diamond in the rough front court player that we can trade for that has similarities to the accomplished 500 plus FTM squad? What are the attributes that these front court players displayed that got to the elite 500 FTM club?
CAn the pretend realgm of the wizards come up with a solution to this problem. We act like a front court player with the ability to generate 500 FTM isn't a big deal? Just shows how amateur we really are compared to the bigboys.

[montestewart]

I of course could be wrong.

We all could be wrong. This draft and these prospects are probably the hardest to forcast than any draft before.

It'll be funny if Ernie deals the pick for a vet and relegates these entire 700+ posts and all the time spent reading these into a colossal waste of time.

If he does, we'll have plenty of practice for the "Official Good Trade?/Bad Trade Thread Pt. I."

[Knighthonor]

Anyone read the piece at truthaboutit on Oladipo and Jordan? Great Read.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/the ... ordan.html

The article before that is also very interesting (detailing pro's and con's with Len and Noel).

After reading that, I may be on the Oladipo bandwagon. It's just too bad I get zero sense whatsoever we're interested (and I kinda think he's gonna go 1 or 2 in a surprise).

I still want an answer as to why this guy not going Top 3. Asking should he go top three seem more like the easier question to answer. The harder would be why isn't he going top 3

The concern with Oladipo is that his usage rate is so low. He averaged just 13.6 points per game as a junior, which is anemic. On a pace adjusted per 40 minute basis, he averaged 18.8 points, which is okay, but nothing to write home about. He's basically only scoring on the fast break or when Zeller draws enough defensive attention to set him up for an open look. Now, that speaks highly of his basketball IQ and his understanding of the difference between a good shot and a bad shot, but it also casts a lot of doubt on his ability to create his own shot at the next level.

But in that link didnt somebody make comparison to MJ in terms of college numbers? Also if that's his strength, wouldn't that compliment John Wall's drive skill and shooting skill and passing skill. He really opens people up.

[nate33]

Coming close to 500....Let just say 450 for guy approaching 500.

Going back since 1999 not one single front court player from the washington wizards has ever aproach 500 FTM. We are talking about a 14 year span, and you guys don't think that's a problem.

Lets check espn stats--1999---alot more than seven front court players.

1.Karl malone, 2.Kemp, 3.duncan, 4.abdur rahim, 5.stackhouse, 6.grant hill, 7.shaq, 8dirk, 9.paul pierce, 10.maggette, 11.carmelo, 12.lebron, 13.amare, 14.richard jefferson, 15.chris bosh, 16.d.howard, 17.kevin durant, 18.blake griffin

That's alot more than 7. I am pretty sure the list goes further if i go back 20 years. Not one single front court player for the wizards has ever approached 500 FTM made. I think I can make an effective conclusion that no wizards fans have ever witnessed a front court player who has shown elite level FTM made production in a wizard uniform ever if the criteria is 450 FTM or more in one season.
grunfeld has shown he isn't qualified to find these type of players and the fans haven't seen it with their own eyes. HUGE PROBLEMO!!

so ok, the only person who has come close was jerry stackhouse almost 10 years ago, and he had 455 FTM in a wizard uniform almost 10 years ago and he was at the tail end of his career. Jordan brought him in and trade richard Hamilton...a guy who never approached that number in his career.
Getting a front court player with this potential would be huge step up from getting a glue guy low ceiling player like Porter. Porter is never going to get close to 500 FTM a season. Bal isn't. Wall might. Can we for one time in the entire history of wizard realgm board, come up with a plausible scenario of us getting a front court player not at the end of his career with the ability to generate 500 FTM. 500 FTM for a front court is a special number that the wizards haven't figure out yet.


What brilliant pretend Wizard GM can solve the 20 year old problem? Certainly not Grunfeld. can you?
CAn the pretend realgm of the wizards come up with a solution to this problem. We act like a front court player with the ability to generate 500 FTM isn't a big deal? Just shows how amateur we really are compared to the bigboys.

I said in the past 10 years. There's only 7. What happened 14 years ago is irrelevant. The game has changed. Bigs don't score like they used to. The only bigs that score 20 points per game are perimeter guys like Nowitzki and Love. Zone defenses and hand-check rules have given the advantage to guards.

But the real question is: what front court player in this draft is going to make 500 free throws in a season? There isn't one. You are just wasting your time making up artificial criteria that can't be met, and then complaining when the Wizards draft a player that can't meet that criteria.

Here's another question: what frontcourt player in the past 15 made 500 free throws in a season and was available to be drafted by the Wizards? The answer is zero. So stop complaining. Getting a guy like that takes a great deal of luck. You have to suck at just the right time. We haven't.

[nate33]

But in that link didnt somebody make comparison to MJ in terms of college numbers? Also if that's his strength, wouldn't that compliment John Wall's drive skill and shooting skill and passing skill. He really opens people up.

Jordan averaged 20.0 and 19.6 points in his last 2 college seasons in an era that wasn't watered down by one-and-done players going pro early.

Oladipo averaged just 13.4 points per game. I think the Oladipo-Jordan analogy is a stretch.

[WizarDynasty]

Coming close to 500....Let just say 450 for guy approaching 500.

Going back since 1999 not one single front court player from the washington wizards has ever aproach 500 FTM. We are talking about a 14 year span, and you guys don't think that's a problem.

Lets check espn stats--1999---alot more than seven front court players.

1.Karl malone, 2.Kemp, 3.duncan, 4.abdur rahim, 5.stackhouse, 6.grant hill, 7.shaq, 8dirk, 9.paul pierce, 10.maggette, 11.carmelo, 12.lebron, 13.amare, 14.richard jefferson, 15.chris bosh, 16.d.howard, 17.kevin durant, 18.blake griffin

That's alot more than 7. I am pretty sure the list goes further if i go back 20 years. Not one single front court player for the wizards has ever approached 500 FTM made. I think I can make an effective conclusion that no wizards fans have ever witnessed a front court player who has shown elite level FTM made production in a wizard uniform ever if the criteria is 450 FTM or more in one season.
grunfeld has shown he isn't qualified to find these type of players and the fans haven't seen it with their own eyes. HUGE PROBLEMO!!

so ok, the only person who has come close was jerry stackhouse almost 10 years ago, and he had 455 FTM in a wizard uniform almost 10 years ago and he was at the tail end of his career. Jordan brought him in and trade richard Hamilton...a guy who never approached that number in his career.
Getting a front court player with this potential would be huge step up from getting a glue guy low ceiling player like Porter. Porter is never going to get close to 500 FTM a season. Bal isn't. Wall might. Can we for one time in the entire history of wizard realgm board, come up with a plausible scenario of us getting a front court player not at the end of his career with the ability to generate 500 FTM. 500 FTM for a front court is a special number that the wizards haven't figure out yet.


What brilliant pretend Wizard GM can solve the 20 year old problem? Certainly not Grunfeld. can you?
CAn the pretend realgm of the wizards come up with a solution to this problem. We act like a front court player with the ability to generate 500 FTM isn't a big deal? Just shows how amateur we really are compared to the bigboys.

I said in the past 10 years. There's only 7. What happened 14 years ago is irrelevant. The game has changed. Bigs don't score like they used to. The only bigs that score 20 points per game are perimeter guys like Nowitzki and Love. Zone defenses and hand-check rules have given the advantage to guards.

But the real question is: what front court player in this draft is going to make 500 free throws in a season? There isn't one. You are just wasting your time making up artificial criteria that can't be met, and then complaining when the Wizards draft a player that can't meet that criteria.

Here's another question: what frontcourt player in the past 15 made 500 free throws in a season and was available to be drafted by the Wizards? The answer is zero. So stop complaining. Getting a guy like that takes a great deal of luck. You have to suck at just the right time. We haven't.

So this is the excuse for why we haven't had a legitimate front court player who has approached 500 FTM in the last 20 years outside of a broken down Jerry Stackhouse?
I find it inexcusable that management hasn't shown the expertise to acquire such a player in his prime either through free agency, draft, or trade?

20 separate players..alot of players. How come these other teams managed to get hold of this type of player yet we couldn't? You are saying that they are were lucky?
Or is because they took the risk? Or was because they have more attractive market--Miami?

The whole point is, if you wanna compete to be elite, getting a front court player with this potential should be how you BUILD YOUR TEAM. Yet that doesn't seem to be the plan of most posters here?

[montestewart]

So this is the excuse for why we haven't had a legitimate front court player who has approached 500 FTM in the last 20 years outside of a broken down Jerry Stackhouse?

First it was 10 years, then 14, and now twenty.

Are there legitimate front court players who have not approached 500 FTM, and also, are there illegitimate front court players who have approached 500 FTM?

Stop being coy. You know what you really mean is everyone is an idiot who doesn't want Bennet first, last, and only, because he will get (or approach, which is apparently legitimate under the revised criteria) 500 FTM. If we are opposed to drafting Bennet, it can only be in favor of trading for a player in his prime who will get 500 FTM, along with a lower draft pick, which will be used to draft Adams, who will not approach 500 FTM.

Champeenship!

[WizarDynasty]

Can we trade for a front court elite player in his prime with the assets we have? NO. Or maybe a pretend GM has a plausible plan where we can get this type of player. Jordan, while he was here, was at least gunning for one by trying to grab stackhouse. Unfortunately stackhouse was on major decline. the whole point of the post is that you have to have a goal before you can get there. this board hasn't even made it a goal to acquire a truly elite player, we are gunning for Glue players with the last valuable trade asset we have.

We struck out for 20 straight years finding a 450 or greater FTM front court player. Your excuse is that we just weren't lucky and the other teams that managed to obtaining a true front court PLAYER is luck.

I believe there are other forces in play and we don't have the expertise on this board to figure it out. Maybe a special pretend gm poster does. I don't, but I have a goal to hopefully inspire the hidden talent we have here to come forth.

[popper]

Somehow we need to combine second round picks, Vesely/Singleton, and cash to acquire another first round pick. There is a decent chance that Gobert, Adams, Crabbe, or one or two other players projected to go in the first could turn into future franchise cornerstones.

[GhostsOfGil]

Noel interviews are up:
http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... /index.jsp

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... /index.jsp

Doesn't seem to thrilled to be interviewing with the Wiz but he had some good things to say.
He said his target date is around November/December. He said his playing weight was 215 and he last weighed in at 218.