Dwight's gonna become a free agent

inquisitive · Post #201 » by **inquisitive** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:20 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdA1aWaPdQw[/youtube]

Post #202 » by **TMU** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:21 am

moofs wrote:
Guy986 wrote:Brook lopez
Tim duncan

Top 8 sounds about right for asik

Brook Lopez?
Top 7.

Yep. He's a pretty crappy rebounder for a 7'0'' guy. I will take Asik over him.

junot111 · Post #203 » by **junot111** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:12 am

TMU wrote:
moofs wrote:
Guy986 wrote:Brook lopez
Tim duncan

Top 8 sounds about right for asik

Brook Lopez?
Top 7.

Yep. He's a pretty crappy rebounder for a 7'0'' guy. I will take Asik over him.

There are other aspects to basketball besides rebounding. He's still better than Asik. And so is DeMarcus Cousins
By position Chris Bosh is also a center. Larry Sanders and Tyson Chandler are at least equal to Asik.

that makes

1)Howard
2)Bosh
3)Gasol
4)Duncan
5)Hibbert
6)Noah
7)Lopez
8)Pekovic
9)Cousins
10)Asik/Chandler/Sanders
.
.
13)Vucevic

that still makes him good enough to start on over half the teams in the league, which means he's still a very good starter, but let's not forget there are some other good C's out there.

Post #204 » by **TMU** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:30 pm

junot111 wrote:
TMU wrote:
moofs wrote:
Brook Lopez?
Top 7.

Yep. He's a pretty crappy rebounder for a 7'0'' guy. I will take Asik over him.

There are other aspects to basketball besides rebounding. He's still better than Asik. And so is DeMarcus Cousins
By position Chris Bosh is also a center. Larry Sanders and Tyson Chandler are at least equal to Asik.

that makes

1)Howard
2)Bosh
3)Gasol
4)Duncan
5)Hibbert
6)Noah
7)Lopez
8)Pekovic
9)Cousins
10)Asik/Chandler/Sanders
.
.
13)Vucevic

that still makes him good enough to start on over half the teams in the league, which means he's still a very good starter, but let's not forget there are some other good C's out there.

Lopez is much better offensively, but Asik is also a superior defender. With all things considered, I will take Asik over Lopez without hesitation. Not to mention that Asik's contract is better, though that's a different topic.

Post #205 » by **Mr. E** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:40 pm

Any talk of the value of centers needs to have money included. What Houston is getting in terms of production for a defensive 7-footer on his deal makes him one of the more valuable big men in the game.

moofs · Post #206 » by **moofs** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:22 pm

junot111 wrote:There are other aspects to basketball besides rebounding. He's still better than Asik. And so is DeMarcus Cousins
By position Chris Bosh is also a center. Larry Sanders and Tyson Chandler are at least equal to Asik

Good thing I didn't make up that list or I'd have felt silly about excluding Chandler. Sanders might be better than Asik, but I'm not sold on it yet.
There ARE other aspects than rebounding. There are also other aspects other than offense, and Lopez does every single one of those very, very badly. Asik is a top-notch rebounder, a very good defender, and while a lot of people don't like his offense, I personally think it's pretty good. He has good footwork, and his TS% is above average for a center. Omer's problem is that he's had a tendency to go for fancy-looking layups when he could easily dunk the ball, which understandably frustrates a lot of people, but it's still hard to argue with the results. I'm not even going to get into contracts because it's not necessary. Omer has his faults, namely turnovers, but he's still leaps and bounds better than Lopez, from both value and basketball perspectives.

As for Boogie Cousins, I don't drink that kool-aid. Pretty sure there's LSD in it. Lemme know when his FG% gets to be better than a backup point guard's and maybe we can talk about talking about it.

inquisitive · Post #207 » by **inquisitive** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:13 pm

local radio guy said that there cp3 people are looking at houston as a distinct possibility if the celtics/clips deal falls through the crack...interesting.

junot111 · Post #208 » by **junot111** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:22 pm

moofs wrote:
junot111 wrote:There are other aspects to basketball besides rebounding. He's still better than Asik. And so is DeMarcus Cousins
By position Chris Bosh is also a center. Larry Sanders and Tyson Chandler are at least equal to Asik

Good thing I didn't make up that list or I'd have felt silly about excluding Chandler. Sanders might be better than Asik, but I'm not sold on it yet.
There ARE other aspects than rebounding. There are also other aspects other than offense, and Lopez does every single one of those very, very badly. Asik is a top-notch rebounder, a very good defender, and while a lot of people don't like his offense, I personally think it's pretty good. He has good footwork, and his TS% is above average for a center. Omer's problem is that he's had a tendency to go for fancy-looking layups when he could easily dunk the ball, which understandably frustrates a lot of people, but it's still hard to argue with the results. I'm not even going to get into contracts because it's not necessary. Omer has his faults, namely turnovers, but he's still leaps and bounds better than Lopez, from both value and basketball perspectives.

Can you explain which aspects are there that Lopez does very poorly while Omer is clearly better at? Other than rebounding and defense

moofs · Post #209 » by **moofs** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:34 pm

junot111 wrote:Good thing I didn't make up that list or
Can you explain which aspects are there that Lopez does very poorly while Omer is clearly better at? Other than rebounding and defense

Well, when it's framed like that, I guess the remaining options are: offense? I'd say he isn't "better" at this point, but his results are.

They're about equal at blocks, steals, turnovers, assists, and Asik is a bit worse at fouling, but also bothered to look "defense" up in the dictionary when he came over.

inquisitive · Post #210 » by **inquisitive** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:56 pm

sorry, i value defense more than offense...so i wouldn't take lopez over asik....i think asik can improve on offense, but i don't see lopez improving defensively or rebounding.

supertruck97 · Post #211 » by **supertruck97** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:27 pm

I think Lakers fans might be the most delusional fanbase in history:

JohnVancouver wrote:Asik, Donatis M., Lin, Parsons and a pick, and they take Duhon with Dwight.
They would be slobbering into the mouthpiece of the phone to take that deal.

Post #212 » by **Mr. E** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:09 pm

supertruck97 wrote:I think Lakers fans might be the most delusional fanbase in history:

JohnVancouver wrote:Asik, Donatis M., Lin, Parsons and a pick, and they take Duhon with Dwight.
They would be slobbering into the mouthpiece of the phone to take that deal.

Clearly that's an April Fool's joke. :lol:

Post #213 » by **jwise44** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:28 pm

supertruck97 wrote:I think Lakers fans might be the most delusional fanbase in history:

JohnVancouver wrote:Asik, Donatis M., Lin, Parsons and a pick, and they take Duhon with Dwight.
They would be slobbering into the mouthpiece of the phone to take that deal.

I've seen that guy post even dumber shiz than that

I think he said, "the more I think about it, the more love Williams and a pick for pau sounds good."

Dudes obviously dumb or 11

Post #214 » by **Slava** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:35 pm

That guy is a Steve Nash fan and he's like 50 or something. He's pretty knowledgeable about NBA history but obviously trades are not his forte. Our fans even surprise me sometimes, its like the Howard & Gasol trades have removed the barrier between truth and fiction for some of our guys.

Post #215 » by **TMACFORMVP** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:26 pm

I agree with moofs on Cousins. I don't see the appeal at all. Well, I suppose I understand how people are enamored with his talent..but he's a very low efficient offensive player, and not an impact defender either. Plus he's foul prone, got a terrible attitude, and makes dumb decisions at times. And most importantly, he hasn't really shown any sort of improvement since he's come into the league. Those huge faults he had in his rookie season are STILL the same faults he has now. Perhaps I'm a little harsh on him, because his talent is certainly there, but as it stands now, he's not a positive impact player, IMO.

As for Lopez, I wouldn't have any problems with people saying Lopez is better. I think he's underrated defensively, and very skilled offensively. He's obviously not a good rebounder, but he's not exactly Bargnani either. IIRC, before the Nets inserted Evans into the starting lineup, Lopez was posting a ~14 TRB%. That's not great, but not so bad that it trumps his strengths. This being said, I don't think we'd be a better team with Lopez opposed to Asik, just because we rely way too much on Asik for defense and rebounding; something Lopez obviously can't replicate or come close to...while offensively we were fine at 6th in ORTG. For the Rockets personnel, I'd personally think Asik impacts us more..

Anyways...there are SO many rumors at this point. I wish it was just July.

Post #216 » by **Mr. E** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:08 pm

SlavaMedvedenko wrote:That guy is a Steve Nash fan and he's like 50 or something. He's pretty knowledgeable about NBA history but obviously trades are not his forte. Our fans even surprise me sometimes, its like the Howard & Gasol trades have removed the barrier between truth and fiction for some of our guys.

All fanbases have fans like that. We see so many from the Lakers here because there is such a high volume of Lakers fans who post here. Go check out some of the trade ideas on the high-traffic Clutch Fans site sometime...there are some real doozies there!

inquisitive · Post #217 » by **inquisitive** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:39 pm

the dumbest /stupidest guy on the lakers board is GeneralNash....though JohnVancouver must be going senile now!

Post #218 » by **Slava** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:24 pm

Clutchfans is one of my favorite basketball forums to read for the content but the layout somehow looks so ancient to me, its kind of like a turnoff.

spolgar · Post #219 » by **spolgar** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:36 pm

SlavaMedvedenko wrote:Clutchfans is one of my favorite basketball forums to read for the content but the layout somehow looks so ancient to me, its kind of like a turnoff.

Both PhpBB (the stuff that's on here) and VBulletin(the stuff that powers clutchfans) are actually pretty old. Forum software is kinda... well... hasn't really progressed.

I think there is a lot of stuff in their mysql databases that would be very, very difficult to migrate away from. If you moved to a different forum stack, you'll have to port all the users and everything they have posted. It could be extremely time consuming.

You are right though. Clutch (Hardisty) and Jeff Balke (Save our Rockets guy) own a web development company together, even if Hardisty lives in Austin. But yeah, the site is dated as hell.

ak7 · Post #220 » by **ak7** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:14 pm

junot111 wrote:
TMU wrote:
moofs wrote:
Brook Lopez?
Top 7.

Yep. He's a pretty crappy rebounder for a 7'0'' guy. I will take Asik over him.

There are other aspects to basketball besides rebounding. He's still better than Asik. And so is DeMarcus Cousins
By position Chris Bosh is also a center. Larry Sanders and Tyson Chandler are at least equal to Asik.

that makes

1)Howard
2)Bosh
3)Gasol
4)Duncan
5)Hibbert
6)Noah
7)Lopez
8)Pekovic
9)Cousins
10)Asik/Chandler/Sanders
.
.
13)Vucevic

that still makes him good enough to start on over half the teams in the league, which means he's still a very good starter, but let's not forget there are some other good C's out there.

Don't quit your day job because your analytical skills in regards to the NBA are weird, to say the least. Asik on the same level as Chandler and Sanders? Um, no.