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The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread

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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#221 » by rockymac52 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:56 pm

nate33 wrote:This is a great point.

Any GM can occasionally find bargains in free agency because it's a relatively illiquid market. Sometimes, guys just get overlooked and if he happens to fit a need, you can pick him up late in free agency at a low cost. Martell Webster is a good example.

The difficult part is to know when to sell an overvalued player. San Antonio and Daryl Morey of Houston do this very well. They are foresighted enough to know when they won't be able to afford a guy and they sell them high. George Hill is a great example.

Morey found Rafer Alston from the scrap heap, he played pretty well but then Morey traded him to a desperate Orlando team who needs a PG after Jameer Nelson got hurt. Morey gets Kyle Lowry in return as part of a 3-way trade. At the time, Lowry is a backup in Memphis. Lowry plays very well in Houston but Morey trades him to Toronto after a couple of years for a future lottery pick. He is able to do so because he recently acquired Goran Dragic by trading the overrated Aaron Brooks for him. Morey eventually uses that Toronto pick as the centerpiece for James Harden. Basically, Morey turned Rafer Alston and the #26 pick (used to draft Brooks) into James Harden. What's notable is that, in each case, the trade was PG for PG. He wasn't making trades for basketball reasons to try to get the right balance in the lineup. He was simply recognizing value disparities and making trades to capitalize on them.

The only time EG has done this that I recall is with Hinrich. He liked Hinrich at the time and had no compelling desire to trade him, but he did so because the value in return was so good. In all other cases, EG only makes trades out of weakness because he has to.


You're absolutely right about Morey's player value/perception prowess. It's remarkable. Not many GMs are capable of such foresight and asset management. I wish Grunfeld was, but I can't even be upset that he isn't, because the reality is probably at least 25 of the current GMs aren't either.

It's an easy concept to wrap your head around, at least in theory. But the actual execution of it is incredibly difficult. It's easy to say "give Ariza some solid minutes to let him maximize his value, then trade him away for younger, more promising options." But it's not as easy as you'd think to correctly identify WHEN players have maximized their value. It's an inexact science, but because of the serious implications, you have to try and be as precise as possible.

It seems like the Wizards (and I say Wizards, because I don't blame this solely on Grunfeld, as even most of us fans are just as guilty) have issues executing this basic sell high/buy low strategy. As I brought up in my last post, signing Webster last summer was a huge success as a buy low candidate, and we should try and replicate it in the future. But aside from that, nothing we've done in the last few years really comes to mind.

I think this team and fan base have an issue, in that many of us are quick to criticize when a player isn't living up to the hype, but then when a player actually starts improving and playing better, we forget that a month earlier we were advocating showcasing that player to maximize his value and then try and sell high, and all of a sudden we love that player and consider him a solid fixture in our core going forward. Basically, when one of our players is playing well, whether we expected him to or not, we tend to believe that what we're seeing is legitimate, and not the result of a lucky streak. To make matters worse, we often assume that if a player is playing well lately, that he not only is as good as he's been playing during that stretch, but that he is rapidly developing and has considerably more room to grow and will likely fulfill his potential in the future. We're a very optimistic fan base, despite all of the hatred for Ernie. "When we're healthy," right guys?

We get attached to any of our players that are playing well. It makes sense. We haven't had much success as a franchise in the last few years. There hasn't been a lot of talent on our roster. So when we finally look like we stumbled upon a productive player, we feel like we can't afford to lose him.

Seriously, think about our entire roster and how people on this board perceive their value to the team going forward. For the most part, a player is either a core part of our team and is nearly untouchable, or he's absolutely terrible and has no value to us and we can't wait to get rid of him for pennies on the dollar. We're a very "all or nothing" fan base, in this regard.

It's like we don't understand that you have to give up something of value in order to get something of value in return. We'd be happy to trade away the likes of Vesely, Singleton, Seraphin, etc. for whatever pile of garbage another team offers, but trade away the 3rd pick or Beal? Blasphemy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm probably just as guilty. I love Beal and think he's going to be great, so of course I don't want to trade him. But you have to realize that we're not going to acquire anyone who's actually GOOD in a trade unless we give up something of value. Otherwise, we're destined for more trades for unwanted veterans for our trash.

Lastly, I will add that we've improved as a collective group in this regard lately. I know plenty of us like Okafor, Ariza, and Nene, but at the same time, we recognize that they're not untouchable and we'd move them for the right deal. However, all three of them are likely past their peak, some more than others, even if they're still productive, and that means teams aren't really lining up to trade away their younger talented assets for them.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#222 » by rockymac52 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:13 pm

For example, consider Kevin Seraphin. Many people on this board have given up on him. Some of us still have hope, and don't want to simply throw him away, but at the same time, he's more than expendable.

However, at the moment, he has very little trade value. I highly doubt we'd be able to acquire much of anything of value in return for him, unless he was packed with another attractive piece, which we honestly don't have many of.

BUT, let's say Seraphin starts off next season as our backup center, and gets about 20 minutes per night. Now, imagine that he hits the ground running. For the first month or two, he's become a very efficient and productive player. He continues to be a very good defensive big man, he cuts down his jumpers, and as a result, his FG% and efficiency metrics are pretty good. All of a sudden we have a 23 year old big man (who started playing basketball at a late age) who is a very good backup center, and looks like he could very realistically replace Okafor as our starting center in the future. Since he made so much progress to get from where he was at the end of the 2013 season to where he is in those first couple months of next season, there's reason to believe something "clicked" and he's only going to continue to progress and develop.

Then what happens?

The answer is that we all fall in love with Seraphin, making up excuses for why we doubted him in years past, and anoint him as our center of the future. We're not looking to trade him, are you kidding me? We finally have our young, defensive-minded and offensively efficient center of the future, why would we give that away??

The answer is because his value may be maximized, and it's time to capitalize and trade him to acquire a more talented but perhaps undervalued player. Now, there's always the possibility that such a trade backfires. What if the guy we get in return never blossoms into the very good player we thought he might be? Perhaps even worse, what if Seraphin does, in fact, continue to develop and becomes one of the top centers in this league? It's a scary thought, but it's one that we're going to have to get over. That's what the best GMs are capable of doing. Know when to let go.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#223 » by tontoz » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:03 pm

I like Webster and would be fine with resigning him but i wonder if getting a good combo guard should be a higher priority.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#224 » by Nivek » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:00 pm

RockyMac: Finally had a chance to read your posts. Great stuff. Really good points and strong analysis.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#225 » by montestewart » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:16 am

rockymac, you would easily do better than EG could do
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#226 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:53 pm

nate33 wrote:
rockymac52 wrote:Now, another observation I've had during the playoffs and particularly in the Finals, involves how the Spurs build their roster. There are obviously many different ways to build a competitive roster, so the Spurs are by no means the be all, end all, but there's also no denying that they have a pretty damn good thing going, and they'd be as good of a model as any to try to replicate. What I've noticed with the Spurs roster and salaries is that they seem to avoid giving out MLE-sized contracts for the most part, or anything larger than the MLE, unless it's for a true core star making upwards of $10 million a year (Duncan, Parker, Ginobili).

The Spurs do a great job of constantly maintaining some salary cap flexibility, always hovering around the salary cap and not approaching the luxury tax. The way they manage to do this, while remaining competitive, is by filling in the rest of their roster other than their big 3 with players on rookie deals and players that are overlooked by other teams for whatever reason and as a result can be signed for the veteran minimum, or in the $2-3 million per year range, mostly on shorter contracts (1-3 years with player options in the 2nd or 3rd year). They also do a great job of identifying which of these overlooked players can fill a particular role/need on their team. It might be easier said than done, and hindsight is 20/20, but look at the types of guys who they pick up out of nowhere and end up blossoming - Gary Neal, Danny Green, Matt Bonner, Patty Mills. They aren't necessarily great players overall, but they all do one or two things VERY well, and for most of these guys, it's that they're lights out 3 point shooters. The Spurs know whoever they sign with these small deals isn't going to be a major cog in the offense, but rather the 4th or 5th best weapon on the floor at any given time, who will most likely be waiting in the corner for the defense to be a second late on the rotation or to forget about him. That's why it's crucial that these guys can knock down the 3 pointer with ease. That's the type of true "role" player that we need.

This is a great point.

Any GM can occasionally find bargains in free agency because it's a relatively illiquid market. Sometimes, guys just get overlooked and if he happens to fit a need, you can pick him up late in free agency at a low cost. Martell Webster is a good example.

The difficult part is to know when to sell an overvalued player. San Antonio and Daryl Morey of Houston do this very well. They are foresighted enough to know when they won't be able to afford a guy and they sell them high. George Hill is a great example.

Morey found Rafer Alston from the scrap heap, he played pretty well but then Morey traded him to a desperate Orlando team who needs a PG after Jameer Nelson got hurt. Morey gets Kyle Lowry in return as part of a 3-way trade. At the time, Lowry is a backup in Memphis. Lowry plays very well in Houston but Morey trades him to Toronto after a couple of years for a future lottery pick. He is able to do so because he recently acquired Goran Dragic by trading the overrated Aaron Brooks for him. Morey eventually uses that Toronto pick as the centerpiece for James Harden. Basically, Morey turned Rafer Alston and the #26 pick (used to draft Brooks) into James Harden. What's notable is that, in each case, the trade was PG for PG. He wasn't making trades for basketball reasons to try to get the right balance in the lineup. He was simply recognizing value disparities and making trades to capitalize on them.

The only time EG has done this that I recall is with Hinrich. He liked Hinrich at the time and had no compelling desire to trade him, but he did so because the value in return was so good. In all other cases, EG only makes trades out of weakness because he has to.


Great stuff, rocky and nate!

Turning Rafer Alston into James Harden is like turning water into wine, Okay, Morey isn't that good but IMO he's leagues ahead of most GMs, Thanks for sharing that, nate.

rocky, the observation you made about how the Spurs stay competitive gets to the heart of why I like realgm. I should stop hating on EG so much but I would love to see more deals like the Hinrich deal. Seraphin and Crawford at various times surely were worth their rookie deals.

If EG can do a future trade similar to the Hinrich he might get back a pick to get a player great at one thing that fits a need.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#227 » by penbeast0 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:34 pm

Hey, he got Jan . . . Jan's great at one thing, dunking. Not sure we have the need though.

All the Spurs roleplayers seem to be either 3 point shooters (most of them) or defensive bigs. Heck, look how long Matt Bonner's been in their rotation.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#228 » by nuposse04 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:04 am

aaron brooks will be a FA as well...I liked him for a while in HOU, no idea why just fizzled out. I think he can give us some more offense then Price if the "price is right"... :|
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#229 » by verbal8 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:53 pm

nuposse04 wrote:aaron brooks will be a FA as well...I liked him for a while in HOU, no idea why just fizzled out. I think he can give us some more offense then Price if the "price is right"... :|


He isn't the only guard that the Rockets are cutting loose:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... ino-Garcia

I think any would be great options with the BAE, or possibly a portion of the MLE and sign Webster with the rest.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#230 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:54 am

Anyone think Webster could possibly be signed with the bi-annual, leaving the MLE to pursue someone like Jarrett Jack or Devon Harris or Lou Williams?
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#231 » by Rafael122 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:09 am

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Anyone think Webster could possibly be signed with the bi-annual, leaving the MLE to pursue someone like Jarrett Jack or Devon Harris or Lou Williams?


Webster wants to get paid.

Delfino is a guy I'd be looking at, had foot surgery so he may be out 4-6 months, but sign him for half the MLE, re-sign Price at the BAE, and the bench is significantly better than last year. Wizards have to fix the bench.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#232 » by gesa2 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:52 am

Depending on his injury situation, Lou Williams could be a really good 3rd guard for us. Great second team scorer, can play with Wall because John can guard 2s. We'd still need a back up distributor especially if/when Wall misses time.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#233 » by hands11 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:55 am

Rafael122 wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Anyone think Webster could possibly be signed with the bi-annual, leaving the MLE to pursue someone like Jarrett Jack or Devon Harris or Lou Williams?


Webster wants to get paid.

Delfino is a guy I'd be looking at, had foot surgery so he may be out 4-6 months, but sign him for half the MLE, re-sign Price at the BAE, and the bench is significantly better than last year. Wizards have to fix the bench.


Price and Martin are exactly the kind of players you let go of.

And I don't think Jack is going anywhere.

But this model you'll seem to want, its something that will come as things stabilize. Right now they swung on some pieces they shouldn't let go of just yet. They cleaned up a lot. They cut bait on Dray when they could have tried to hold on for value.

First you have to get a core team or the right personalities and talents, then everything is easier.

I think they are in a lot better position now then they have been in a long long time. Still more work to do, but I think this team is sitting a lot prettier then people give it credit.

For me, I would keep all the vets and plan on Webster being here as well. And I wouldn't concede on throwing my hands in the air with Trevor A just yet. But they don't have too. He isn't opting out.

Let this team simmer a little before you go through a bunch of salt in it. There has been enough blowing up for now. Because of that, I actually hope they don't pick Otto. They are other options that are as talented or more and don't require messing up what they started.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#234 » by hands11 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:56 am

gesa2 wrote:Depending on his injury situation, Lou Williams could be a really good 3rd guard for us. Great second team scorer, can play with Wall because John can guard 2s. We'd still need a back up distributor especially if/when Wall misses time.


Draft Burke. Problem solved.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#235 » by gambitx777 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:19 am

Yeah, i would not hate moving back and taking a guard if need be. but, I think Webster likes it here. I doubt he really wants to leave. i mean the entire league basically passed on him and we believed in him, he and his family both like it in DC. He might stick around for a few more years and make this his home.

But other than Web, I think we should stop dreaming about Jack and other guys that we won't be able to pay,

Guys like Al-farouq Aminu and Marco Belinelli will not command to much money and they are good players.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#236 » by rockymac52 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:11 am

Thanks for the guys who read my last couple posts in this thread and commented with praise, I really appreciate it. I know I ramble on sometimes, so it's good to know that people actually read through my longer posts and agree somewhat.

While I think we'll be able to re-sign Webster for less than the MLE, I don't think we're going to be able to sign him with the BAE. He is worth more than $2 million a year. And actually, I'm pretty sure if he's willing to sign for about $2 million a year, then we could do so with one of the exceptions (the name escapes me) that's not the BAE or MLE (it's something where you can re-sign your own player for like 120% of his current salary or something like that). Bottom line, Webster is worth more than that and even if he loves it here and wants to stay, he's almost definitely going to make more than $2 million a year.

I feel pretty confident saying that Webster wants to re-sign here, that we want to re-sign Webster, and that we'll be able to do so for about $3-4 million per year, for 3-4 years. That's a pretty solid deal and I'd be very happy with that. But, for the purposes of the rest of our free agency plans, the reality is that once we re-sign Webster, we can't afford most of these guys a lot of you have been discussing as potential targets with the MLE. No Jack, Williams, Robinson, etc. Let's say Ariza signs for only $3 million per season, that means that we have $2.1 million per year left of the MLE. That's not going to get you much more than a vet. min. player. To be clear, you can get good quality players for that price (see: Webster), but it's not going to get you any sure-fire solid guys, there's almost definitely going to be a certain amount of risk involved.

So the rest of our offseason will be signing vet. min. guys, or mayyybe one or two guys worth slightly more than the vet. min. at a max of $2 million a season.

One guy I'd like to take a look at is Patty Mills. Mills has fallen out of the rotation in San Antonio, and as a result, I'd expect him to decline his very small player option of $1.1 million next season. Now, I don't think it's going to take much more to sign Mills. But he'd probably still opt out just to get a better shot at semi-consistent playing time.

I'm not sure if Mills has the true point guard skills to be our full-time backup to Wall, but it's plausible. What's more ideal for us is that we sign Mills and also sign AJ Price (or a similarly below average backup PG). That way, Mills and Price can battle for the backup PG minutes, and the loser can also get some limited minutes here and there in 2 PG lineups. Even if Mills doesn't have the true PG skills needed to be a full-time backup, there's no denying that he's an exceptional shooter from 3 point range. We could probably have Wall and Mills on the court together, where Wall handles the ball on offense while Mills assumes the role of a spot up shooting SG, and Mills can defend the other team's PG while Wall slides over to SG defensively. If Mills is able to prove his abilities as a backup PG, then that's gravy.

I think our situation would also be fairly attractive to him, as it's clear we don't have a very reliable backup PG, and even if Price beats Mills out for the job, Mills could still get a decent amount of minutes at SG because other than Beal, all we have is (possibly) Webster backing up at SG, so there's a very clear need for a third string guy.

Most of all, there's virtually no risk because it will be a short term deal, possibly non-guaranteed, with a very low annual salary. And more importantly, there's a pretty solid upside, and Mills provides a unique role as a 3 point specialist. That sounds like a pick up that a good GM would make, IMO.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#237 » by gesa2 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:13 am

Agreed Rockymac. Nate's brought up the idea of using Wall's ability to guard 2s to our advantage in the same way before, and I think the idea makes loads of sense.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#238 » by rockymac52 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:24 am

gesa2 wrote:Agreed Rockymac. Nate's brought up the idea of using Wall's ability to guard 2s to our advantage in the same way before, and I think the idea makes loads of sense.


Honestly, bringing back Barbosa for the minimum wouldn't be the worst idea either. He also fits the mold of the undersized SG with limited PG skills. I know he's on the decline, and his defense is suspect, but for the minimum, I think we could do a lot worse. 3 point range, likely knows his role at this point in his career.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#239 » by rockymac52 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:31 am

Roger Mason probably is another solid option. We know he loves it here, and at this point in his career, he's going to be happy just to have a job for another year. He'd only cost the vet minimum and for 1 season most likely. I can't recall if we ever used him as a PG for short stretches, but he definitely fits as a lights out three point specialist at the 2.
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Re: The 2013 NBA Free Agency Thread 

Post#240 » by montestewart » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:38 am

rockymac52 wrote:Roger Mason probably is another solid option. We know he loves it here, and at this point in his career, he's going to be happy just to have a job for another year. He'd only cost the vet minimum and for 1 season most likely. I can't recall if we ever used him as a PG for short stretches, but he definitely fits as a lights out three point specialist at the 2.

For extremely short stretches, maybe a play or two, he brought the ball up court. I wouldn't think of him as a 3rd PG, maybe a 4th or 5th option. But I'd be fine with adding him as deep bench material. Not sure what Barbosa's health status is at this point.

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