Celtics and Clippers Deal close to Being Official

Celts17Pride · Post #1481 » by **Celts17Pride** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:07 am

jfs1000d wrote:
GreenBloodedC wrote:The responses have doubled overnight

I like Doc, but I cannot help but feel that he's putting the team on hostage. Damn it!

What? Doc's given the Celtics a life line. We may get something for retiring Garnett, and he saves the owners 21 million by walking. Celtics may get out from terry and lee contract and have a disposable asset in butler. Think about that for a second.

This is going to save the celtics a lot of
Money in the short term.

Great post! Someone who gets it.

CelticFaninLBC · Post #1482 » by **CelticFaninLBC** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:08 am

Jordan's an average center. The Joel Anthony and Tyson Chandler comparisons are off. He's much better than Anthony, but doesn't have the agility or bbiq of Chandler either..

Jordan's a good rebounder, who can protect the rim as a help defender. Since he's still pretty young, perhaps he can add more strength and eventually become a solid man-to-man post defender... Yeah, he got abused by Marc Gasol in the playoffs, but Gasol's the most skill big man in the game too..

CelticFaninLBC · Post #1483 » by **CelticFaninLBC** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:09 am

tfmiii wrote:
CelticFaninLBC wrote:
Marley2Hendrix wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/346809628291641344[/tweet]

Heard Shelbourne on LA sports radio earlier. She said that she thinks LAC will take Terry, and now it's a matter of whether they'll take Lee too.

got to like the sound of that, if we can get jordan, butler, pick and dump both Lee and Terry, at this point i will be happy...

of course now that I have typed that, it will not happen

My guess is KG, Terry, Jordan Crawford for Jordan, Butler and a 1st rounder. Doubt the Clips budge on Lee...

tombattor · Post #1484 » by **tombattor** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:10 am

I think people are under rating Jordan. He's not great, but he's young and is a legit starting center in the nba. Of course kg is a significantly better player, so they need to either take crap contract or 2 or give us draft picks. But we're getting something out of it with Jordan. With doc, we have all the leverage. We can hold out for a lot. Because we can make him sit out for 3 years. I'd say 2 first round picks should be good. Clippers should be drafting in the 20s and those picks are not very valuable if you look at the percentages of stars from those draft positions.

So I think dj, 2 first for terry or lee, kg and doc is a fair deal. If they want to buy a contender, you gotta pay up.

Post #1485 » by **sully00** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:12 am

PP 4 Three wrote:I'm sorry, but Jordan's been in the league for 5 years and is still getting benched in the 4th quarter for being a liability. That does not sound like a guy who has shown any major signs of progress. The fact that he's gonna be in a **** situation in Boston is probably gonna hinder his motivation to get better even more.

No offense but Roy Hibbert and Tyson Chandler get benched in the fourth quarter as well. I imagine the idea of being able to actually get his share of touches would thrill him. For a team with no size that can't rebound you would think getting a guy who blocks shots and rebounds with the best of them would be enough.

Justin33 · Post #1486 » by **Justin33** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:13 am

tombattor wrote:I think people are under rating Jordan. He's not great, but he's young and is a legit starting center in the nba. Of course kg is a significantly better player, so they need to either take crap contract or 2 or give us draft picks. But we're getting something out of it. With doc, we have all the leverage. We can hold out for a lot. I'd say 2 first round picks should be good. Clippers should be drafting in the 20s and those picks are not very valuable if you look at the percentages of stars from those draft positions.

So I think dj, 2 first for terry or lee, kg and doc is a fair deal. If they want to buy a contender, you gotta pay up.

Golden State thought enough of him to offer him that contract as well as LAC

The Corey's · Post #1487 » by **The Corey's** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:15 am

Ok so basically it's like this..

Red Sox used Gonzalez to unload Crawford and Beckett.

Now the celtics will settle for less than what they perceive the value of what they are giving up if they can dump salary?

I'm all for dumping them but couldn't you package them with pierce or potentially even rondo is a different deal?

tfmiii · Post #1488 » by **tfmiii** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:16 am

PP 4 Three wrote:I'm sorry, but Jordan's been in the league for 5 years and is still getting benched in the 4th quarter for being a liability. That does not sound like a guy who has shown any major signs of progress. The fact that he's gonna be in a **** situation in Boston is probably gonna hinder his motivation to get better even more.

or light a fire under his behind/put a chip on his shoulder...

how do you think Rondo will tell him to react?

irie · Post #1489 » by **irie** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:18 am

The Corey's wrote:Ok so basically it's like this..

Red Sox used Gonzalez to unload Crawford and Beckett.

Now the celtics will settle for less than what they perceive the value of what they are giving up if they can dump salary?

I'm all for dumping them but couldn't you package them with pierce or potentially even rondo is a different deal?

Putting any two of Pierce, Rondo, and KG into the same deal is so much salary any deal that could be conceived that put them on the same team would be too unrealistic to ever happen. It's possible, I guess though.

WeLikeOurGuys · Post #1490 » by **WeLikeOurGuys** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:19 am

^I just can't see rondo wanting to stick around I think he will eventually ask for a trade.

CelticFaninLBC · Post #1491 » by **CelticFaninLBC** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:19 am

Centers who are clearly better than Jordan:

Howard
Marc Gasol
Lopez
Bynum (IF healthy)
Duncan (close to retirement)
Bogut (IF healthy)
Chandler
Hibbert
Noah

Centers about the same:
Gortat
Asik
Pekovic
Sanders

Centers who will probably be better:
Cousins
Drummond
Favors

PP 4 Three · Post #1492 » by **PP 4 Three** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:21 am

CelticFaninLBC wrote:Centers who are clearly better than Jordan:

Howard
Marc Gasol
Lopez
Bynum (IF healthy)
Duncan (close to retirement)
Bogut (IF healthy)
Chandler
Hibbert
Noah
Garnett

Centers about the same:
Gortat
Asik
Pekovic
Sanders

Center who will probably be better:
Cousins
Drummond
Favors

Fixed

Ed Pinkney · Post #1493 » by **Ed Pinkney** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:22 am

Chandler wasn't good for a number of years, though admittedly coming straight out of high school to a team that was terrible played a role. He wasn't a good player till year 5 or 6 at least. Not till he got to New Orleans and Charlotte really.

Post #1494 » by **165bows** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:22 am

Sully of other cap oriented folks, if you could answer/clarify this it would be appreciated.

I think there is a major cap benefit that hasn't been mentioned regarding Bledsoe vs Jordan. Jordan makes a lot more, we get that. But after next year, Bledsoe is a RFA with a small cap hold. Bradley is the same. So between those two and our other young core players, Green, Rondo and Sully, there could potentially be significant cap space. Cap space that could be used for a legitimate talent, then the two guards re-signed to generous deals with Bird rights.

If Jordan is in place instead of Bledsoe, he eats up a bunch of that space. So he can be used in a sign and trade, but then he's gone as any asset, and the team is dependent on who wants to take him or other salaries. Exactly the problem we have now. With Bledsoe, you keep the asset AND can control the signing process because there is actual cap space.

So some of this is obvious, but I think the specific situation next year makes it a bigger distinction than the basics that have been discussed so far.

The Corey's · Post #1495 » by **The Corey's** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:23 am

irie wrote:
The Corey's wrote:Ok so basically it's like this..

Red Sox used Gonzalez to unload Crawford and Beckett.

Now the celtics will settle for less than what they perceive the value of what they are giving up if they can dump salary?

I'm all for dumping them but couldn't you package them with pierce or potentially even rondo is a different deal?

Putting any two of Pierce, Rondo, and KG into the same deal is so much salary any deal that could be conceived that put them on the same team would be too unrealistic to ever happen. It's possible, I guess though.

No. What I meant was to use rondo or pierce in a different deal to also unload lee, terry or even bass.

Instead of the kg deal. I think they'd get more out of it in the long haul.

irie · Post #1496 » by **irie** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:24 am

The Corey's wrote:
irie wrote:
The Corey's wrote:Ok so basically it's like this..

Red Sox used Gonzalez to unload Crawford and Beckett.

Now the celtics will settle for less than what they perceive the value of what they are giving up if they can dump salary?

I'm all for dumping them but couldn't you package them with pierce or potentially even rondo is a different deal?

Putting any two of Pierce, Rondo, and KG into the same deal is so much salary any deal that could be conceived that put them on the same team would be too unrealistic to ever happen. It's possible, I guess though.

No. What I meant was to use rondo or pierce in a different deal to also unload lee, terry or even bass.

Instead of the kg deal. I think they'd get more out of it in the long haul.

Fair enough; I misread you

Infinite Llamas · Post #1497 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:24 am

CelticFaninLBC wrote:Centers who are clearly better than Jordan:

Howard
Marc Gasol
Lopez
Bynum (IF healthy)
Duncan (close to retirement)
Bogut (IF healthy)
Chandler
Hibbert
Noah

Centers about the same:
Gortat
Asik
Pekovic
Sanders

Centers who will probably be better:
Cousins
Drummond
Favors

You are underrating Sanders BIG time if you think he's on the same level as Jordan. Sanders is a major game changer.

StojkoVrankovic · RIP texas celtic, 12/10/14 - 12/10/14

R9ndo wrote:^I just can't see rondo wanting to stick around I think he will eventually ask for a trade.

There is something else in the works, has to be. Danny wouldn't be trying to dump additional salary if that wasn't the case.

I can see Rondo/AB/Green/Sully/Jordan bonding and forming a very determined core. Will they turn around and win 50 games next season? No. However, I expect them to go balls to the wall, doing everything in their power to prove people wrong.

Or we just suck

CelticFaninLBC · Post #1499 » by **CelticFaninLBC** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:27 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
CelticFaninLBC wrote:Centers who are clearly better than Jordan:

Howard
Marc Gasol
Lopez
Bynum (IF healthy)
Duncan (close to retirement)
Bogut (IF healthy)
Chandler
Hibbert
Noah

Centers about the same:
Gortat
Asik
Pekovic
Sanders

Centers who will probably be better:
Cousins
Drummond
Favors

You are underrating Sanders BIG time if you think he's on the same level as Jordan. Sanders is a major game changer.

Maybe you're right. I haven't seen much of Sanders.. They basically have the same win share/48 though.

DoubleHappiness · Post #1500 » by **DoubleHappiness** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:29 am

Let me preface this by saying I am completely unsure of this deal, which is why so much speculation is being thrown up online. BUT, all the centers in your about the same category are definitely at this point, better than Jordan. I'm not sure where you are going with Cousins. He certainly is better.

Like Sully said, the point is assets. Even if you flip Jordan for borderline nothing after this deal, sometimes borderline nothing is better than nothing. The gamble is when the team gets stuck with Jordan and he doesn't pan out at all. I would like to think at least some team would take Jordan if it didn't work out.

Even a second would be plus EV. If not, and Jordan didnt develop or was terrible, it's minus EV.