CJ Watson to opt out

[PetroNet]

this is really stupid. taylor's 6'2.75 without shoes with a 6'6.25 wingspan. in his four year college career and his time on the floor last season, he demonstrated excellent vertical explosiveness and lateral quickness, none of which can be said for any of the players you listed. here are the relevant measurements:

taylor
6'2.75 height without shoes
6'6.25 wingspan

green
6'1.5
6' 5.75"

jackson
why bother

wolters
6'3.5
6'3.75

brown
6'4
6'7

all of them are mediocre prospects, none of them are overtly NBA athletes. taylor's similarly mediocre at this point, but he has a combination of size and athletic tools that none of these players possess. he has a year of NBA experience. he dominated the d-league. he showed flashes vs NBA players. am i saying he'll definitely have a better career than these players? of course not. is it POSSIBLE a rookie 2nd pg could beat him out? yes. is it likely? no, i dont think its at all likely.

think this discussion has run its course. were gonna sign a vet minner anyway

taylor isnt some elite athlete, lets not pretend like he is. Green is undeniably twice the player taylor is. wolters and brown have more size, and were clearly better at the NCAA level then taylor. not saying any of these guys will ever be legit pros. but i dont think ty taylor has any real shot to be one...

anyhow, its all moot. the point was its kind of silly to think that a second round pick couldnt beat a second round pick with 10 less games of pro experience

[deepblueday]

im just sitting here laughing... youd be ready to cut any one of those guys two months into the season.

[enetric]

And one other...what about Chauncey Billups? I like that move if he is healthy.

I saw this a few days ago:

Chauncey Billups is an unrestricted free agent and wants another NBA Finals ring. He told Fox Sports Florida that he would not mind taking less money to join the Miami Heat for this upcoming season.

Billups, 36, was in Miami on Sunday to receive the NBA’s inaugural Twyman-Stokes Teammate of the Year Award. He struggled with a torn Achilles tendon the last two seasons and missed 38 of the Clippers’ first 41 games this past year. Despite the injury, Billups said he has no plan on retiring.

From Fox Sports Florida:

The Heat went after Billups after he was released in December 2011 as part of the NBA’s amnesty provision. However, the Los Angeles Clippers won the bidding process, and he has played with them the past two seasons.

But Billups, 36, said he will look at all options this summer. He was asked if the Clippers have any sort of inside track to re-sign him. “I’m wide open,’’ Billups said. “Free agent means free.’’

via http://tracking.si.com/2013/06/10/chaun ... iami-heat/

So yeah...the rich could very well be getting richer yet again.

This is what I was so annoyed at dealing with Paradise the other day. (Not looking to start another round Paradise just reiterating my point).

Time and time again we see it at every level. The order of what attracts players as I see it...

1- Money. Incredibly rare athletes leave millions on the table. Small discounts happen...but most of the time biggest contract to offer gets you first in line at the recruiting dinner table.

2- All money being equal...a chance to win. Players prioritize playing with the best possible other players they can find. If they are also stars, they want to align with guys at a similar stage of their careers. If you look around...you will guys in conversations with other guys about the same age. And the prospect of being traded to or signing long term with a franchise that has a much older star isnt that attractive to players because they know a rebuilding era will be right around the corner smack in the middle of the prime of their career.

If they are no longer a star they still want to play where they can win. So they might not be as concerned with age as much as who gives them the best chance to win now as we see in the Billups comment.

3- Then we get to market. I do not believe that market leap frogs playing with the most talented teammates for most players especially guys in their prime. But, good weather or major media markets that can land you extra endorsement cash is a major plus on the checklist.

When everyone hated Ratner because he was going to move the Nets and had the audacity to call this guy cheap when he was running payroll right at the cap despite god awful attendance..I was the one around here saying wait!! Brooklyn is going to be a the best thing that ever happened to us. Be patient. And realize all these years later...if it wasnt for that guy...this thing never happens. The guy wasnt a villain to Nets history...he is one of its heroes.

And now I do believe that having the big market, the cap space was able to attract Dwight Howard to take notice and say...trade me there. I think if LBJ could have convinced one of Wade or Bosh to go with him...he might have signed here. But the point is....players were able to see it finally. And, I do think someday in the future we can be attractive to free agents again. But...no I dont see much younger stars signing up to play with an older Dwill in 2016. Maybe Lopez if he is a true star by then...but I think the jury is still out on his upside.

4- Coach, system and franchise reputation. Players talk. And while I dont think people should go so far as to believe that a coach can convince a player to chose a lesser team or take less cash...or go to a market he isnt interested in...the right coach can recruit and be a tipping point between two options. Players know...hey I could sign a 5 year deal and they could fire the coach tomorrow...so I cant chose that team because of the coach...but there are guys players hear, hey..so and so is great to play for. Shinny and new...right now I am pretty sure the league as a whole loves JKidd as a coach. For them it most likely feels like...hey one of US is calling the shots. If Kidd does well and he is here in 3 years...that will add so much for our reputation as a team. And if the cash is equal....if you think the team can compete...playing for the right guy in a big market can give us an edge of 75% of the teams in the NBA. Previously...we were in the bottom 10% in NJ.

Anyway...that's my perspective of what I see time and time again. Dwight doesnt like Dantoni's system? Sure. But cash keeps LA in the loop. Playing with old Kobe old Nash and old Gasol where he just saw they arent a contender has him thinking about leaving the #1 franchise #1 market in the NBA. If LA couldnt offer more money that anyone else...I think Dwight would already be gone simply because of the teammates. He cant see how to win with those guys. So there is talk about CP3 and Harden, or in Atlanta with Horford because like Dwill...a chance to team up with similar age all stars. If LA had that to offer..Dwight wouldnt be looking around IMO. He would play for Dantoni...and simply bitch enough about the system until the system changed.

LA will pitch it strengths just as we all do. They will say..extra contract balloon year...HUGE guaranteed money. LA weather, LA media market...LAKERS reputation...and huge deep pockets where no expense is spared. And they will swear to Dwight that if he is patient for a year or two...that just like they chose young Kobe over better Shaq...that they will do the same for him. HIS LAKER team...not Kobe's. And just to be patient a bit longer so thy can get to fat expiring contracts and cap space...and it will all happen.

If he bolts it will be because he see a better guaranteed vision or plan to win. Even if its a lesser market like Houston or Atlanta. But as that neither of those team has an idea situation for him as of yet...LA is still in good position because of the cash.


This summer...for us...with no cap space, and our exception already earmarked for our Euro import we are in line with everyone else who is in the same position. The teams with more cash get first pick at the low level role guys that we might want. The teams with similar cash to offer who have a better chance to win will have second pick. And then comes us pitching market and coach and better players than many of the other teams who didnt have first or second pick.

RIght now...its a damn shame we cant do an S&T. Because I said it last year. If Dwight were prepared to say to LA...trade me where I want or I will sign for less with a third team...an offer of trading Dwight out of conference for Brook Lopez and picks looks a whole lot better than trading him to the Clippers or Rockets!

But I dont blame King for moving on from Dwight after all he did to try and get him. I blame King for HOW he moved on or who he moved on to...lol...but not for saying OK enough already have to forget this guy its been 2 years of this crap.

Hopefully HBAP pays off....and hopefully we keep Blatche and up the bench somehow. Otherwise...I can foresee us actually being weaker next season on paper. No Blatche, no CJ Watson...and we get a weaker big man and a weaker back up PG...and we have to hope for improvement from within. Could happen. But off seasons are about improving your team on paper. Training camps are for seeing how it all fits together...and the season is where you work on getting it right so that come playoffs you are the best version of yourself.

I admit...given the lack of cash flexibility the weak playoffs....the lopsided dominance of the league, I am concern it will be hard for us to improve this team that much this summer.

[enetric]

you doubt a 2nd rounder could beat out another 2nd rounder???

this hypothetical 2nd rounder will not come into camp with a year of NBA experience, an offseason of NBA training, and will almost certainly be at a disadvantage to taylor in terms of physical and athletic profile. im not inclined to make foolish, sweeping, hyperbolic claims regarding both individual players and teams, and to be consistently, often flagrantly, proven wrong, but, yes, my money would be on taylor to beat out a rookie.

sink or swim isnt what you want with a team built to try and make noise in the playoffs now

were not built to make noise in the playoffs now.

I think you mean our upside is capped? I agree if that was your point. But clearly we are built to be a win now team...not a slow growth lottery team. We WONT win big. But we agree that we not a rebuilding lottery team iven our payroll, the contract length and age of our big contract beyond Lopez right?

Realistically we arent grooming last years 2nd round PG or potentially this years for the future. The plan is most likely...win now. GIve the most minutes to the guys who can get us wins now. Where late picks will have to prove themselves in practice...and beyond that their main value to the team will not be as future contributors but as trade throw ins. Sad...but true. Most of these late picks dont do anything in this league of major consequence. Sometimes you get lucky. But...I think for some of us hard to expect Taylor to be a major contributor given the low level of success for late drafted PG's in the NBA who didnt get to be starters early on.

It just doesnt seem to be an understudy slow growth position in this league.

For others...they just dont feel he is that talented. I dont really feel strongly one way or the other about his talent. I just feel the odds are heavily stacked against him and the pressure on King and now the third coach of the Brooklyn Nets..win now.

I wish him luck though. Getting a positive contribution from an unlikely source can be awesome. Be it in the win column or as a trade chip.

[enetric]

billups has been horrible for a while now. abysmal defender that will not stop chucking threes. he would not play over chalmers or cole.

He probably wouldnt play over those guys. But I think it supports my earlier point that he would mention that team over another playoff team where he could get more minutes. See Rashard Lewis. He seems very happy with his court side seats, paycheck and possible diamond ring over a place he could have played more minutes.

BTW...as fair as your assessment was of Chauncey...he still kills most of that PG like on page 1!

Man, that was an ugly collection of names!

[enetric]

im just sitting here laughing... you be ready to cut any one of those guys two months into the season.

I think there is a lot of truth in what you said. I see that all the time on the boards. I tease VC4P about. For years we have a bit where I tell him...the draft is like Christmas for him. SO happy with new draft picks like each name loved in college is a shinny present under the tree waiting you you to open it!!! So exciting! Could it be a PS3? Maybe! But...no one ever stops to think once the present is open..it just might be sox!!!!

Its the unknown that we as fans love! Cant get enough of it. Its like the drug that keeps our slim hope alive that we arent this ugly middle of the pack team capped our for years to come with several untradeable players.


Now to be fair...I think you and Petro talked past each other. His point was...yeah some other low level rook might beat out last years low level rook...and your point was...still advantage to the guy who spent a year going through the process. I think...you are both right really. I dont think your point was that Taylor was something special...or that his point was that the next low level guy will be.

Anyway...do we even have a 2nd rounder right now? I thought we traded all the second rounders for years to come.

[MrDollarBills]

yeah i think we may be f'd when it comes to back up PG this season

[deepblueday]

Now to be fair...I think you and Petro talked past each other. His point was...yeah some other low level rook might beat out last years low level rook...and your point was...still advantage to the guy who spent a year going through the process. I think...you are both right really. I dont think your point was that Taylor was something special...or that his point was that the next low level guy will be.

largely, yes, i certainly have no degree of confidence that he will turn into anything more than an avg backup... although i also won't shy away from saying i like what he showed last season. he's a consistent 3 pt shot away from being a very solid backup PG. is he an instinctive passer or game manager? no, but creative, game managing backup pgs are not the norm at the NBA level. if you can spot shoot, play defense, and push the ball, you're a solid NBA back up guard.

and a young, athletic avg back up whose hungry and has room to grow his game is better than a journeyman 29 year-old avg back-up.

Anyway...do we even have a 2nd rounder right now? I thought we traded all the second rounders for years to come.

i think most us just assume that 2 or 3 mil nets us 2nd rounders relatively easily.

[bobbyc]

That sucks he was on a good deal with us. He was decent for us too. He ended the season on a bad note.

[enetric]

and a young, athletic avg back up whose hungry and has room to grow his game is better than a journeyman 29 year-old avg back-up.

I hope you are right and that he has upside. That would be great. And I have no issue with your assessment of what he showed last season.

But...on this one sentence I wanted to point out that historically in the NBA...its like that car commercial. Do you know the one that says the best new cars make the best used cars? The best starting PG's tend to make the back up PG's. Its the hardest job in the NBA to learn in limited minutes or as someone's understudy.

You are not alone to theorize this angle and I have spoken to it many times over the years. Fans are enamored with the idea or theory of being developed under some all star...like Young under Montana. And in theory makes perfect sense.

But if you go through your NBA drafts...those second round PG's who spend a few years under some top tier guy, rarely turn into anything but players starring in lesser leagues around the world. Most of the time your better back up PG's are the veteran guys who havent lost their smarts for running the offense or learning the tricks of the trade...but have lost the athleticism to give 35 minutes a night.

So the 10-20 minutes per night from that guy can keep him fresh enough to be helpful. You also get the lottery pick flame-outs or the late picks who got a season or two where they got to start and parlay that into something. Sometimes they got to start because they are on a really bad team with no other option and other times because the guy in front of them got hurt and they got to sink or swim as the starter. From there they become a coveted back up PG.

Look around the league and at past drafts you will see what I mean. The odds for this kid or another late pick PG making it are very low. Now, if Dwill got hurt for half a season and we had no choice but to play him...it would be his most likely ticket to sink or swim. But...lets hope that doesnt happen.

Given my observations of late PG picks...I hate it when we take these guys. I prefer a late pick used on a wing or a 5 foul back up big man. If you have a star PG and you are a playoff team...unless you are blown away by the kid...I say dont waste the pick on him.

[MrDollarBills]

and a young, athletic avg back up whose hungry and has room to grow his game is better than a journeyman 29 year-old avg back-up.

I hope you are right and that he has upside. That would be great. And I have no issue with your assessment of what he showed last season.

But...on this one sentence I wanted to point out that historically in the NBA...its like that car commercial. Do you know the one that says the best new cars make the best used cars? The best starting PG's tend to make the back up PG's. Its the hardest job in the NBA to learn in limited minutes or as someone's understudy.

You are not alone to theorize this angle and I have spoken to it many times over the years. Fans are enamored with the idea or theory of being developed under some all star...like Young under Montana. And in theory makes perfect sense.

But if you go through your NBA drafts...those second round PG's who spend a few years under some top tier guy, rarely turn into anything but players starring in lesser leagues around the world. Most of the time your better back up PG's are the veteran guys who havent lost their smarts for running the offense or learning the tricks of the trade...but have lost the athleticism to give 35 minutes a night.

So the 10-20 minutes per night from that guy can keep him fresh enough to be helpful. You also get the lottery pick flame-outs or the late picks who got a season or two where they got to start and parlay that into something. Sometimes they got to start because they are on a really bad team with no other option and other times because the guy in front of them got hurt and they got to sink or swim as the starter. From there they become a coveted back up PG.

Look around the league and at past drafts you will see what I mean. The odds for this kid or another late pick PG making it are very low. Now, if Dwill got hurt for half a season and we had no choice but to play him...it would be his most likely ticket to sink or swim. But...lets hope that doesnt happen.

Given my observations of late PG picks...I hate it when we take these guys. I prefer a late pick used on a wing or a 5 foul back up big man. If you have a star PG and you are a playoff team...unless you are blown away by the kid...I say dont waste the pick on him.

Great post sir.

[enetric]

Thanks...

[Paradise]

I really wouldn't count out CJ re-signing honestly. Much like Hump last year, I don't see any teams throwing any offers at him.

[NyCeEvO]

He'll get more than the vet min.

Even if someone gives him 2yr/$4mil, that's more than what he would've received from us.