Celtics and Clippers Deal #2 UPDATE DEAD, DEAD, DEAD

[LuckyLeprichan]

So you're an update behind... Woj and many others have reported the talks again stalled because the Clippers were unwilling to take on either Lee or Terry, this is why im saying the deal has so little value for us

They aren't starting with that offer either, this has been in the works all week... we are getting close to what the final deal will actually be and right now its a basic KG for DAJ/pick swap with Doc allowed to move to LA as well.

What im saying is that deal does nothing for us and needs more value for it to give us any real help in finding a future direction for the team, if we dump a contract or two then it improves slightly and an additional pick or asset would be ideal.

Right now, if DA takes the offer he well and truly lost the negotiations IMO

Don't count on the Clippers holding their ground. So far they haven't budged at all in negotiations. They know they need to get something done to keep Chris Paul and the Lakers came out and said they will never trade Dwight to the Clippers for any deal, so this is by far their best option.

[bballcool34]

Link: http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--so ... 59443.html

I hope Danny tells them to go **** themselves

[tfmiii]

can LAC even give us their pick this year? we had their #1 last year, doesn't the Stepien rule prevent them from trading it?

Or will it be a work around, where they draft the player but then trade him to us?

[Marvel]

From when i woke up this morning till now, it seems the deal has gotten worse. So, now the Clipps are resisting taking on Terry/Lee? No Bledsoe and now only 1 1st rounder? **** me what a rape job.

[Tirion]

If Ainge gets ANYTHING for Doc he already won. He made a trade chip out of his coach. That's unheard off.

[tlau]

So at the end of the day, if this deal goes through, we will have a **** coach, a center that can't even play in the 4th quarter because of free throw problems and has no offensive skill sets and a late 1st round pick whilst they get our coach AND the heart and soul of our team?

Sounds about right.

[Celtics_Champs]

If Ainge gets ANYTHING for Doc he already won. He made a trade chip out of his coach. That's unheard off.

The heat got two seconds for slab can gunty, so I hope Doc would pull in more.

[robbie84]

I still just don't see a positive to the deal.. it leaves SO much work to be done, whether we want to compete or rebuild

Our team salary would actually go up, Jordan and KG each have 2 years left on their deals but Garnett Is obviously the superior player and a pick that is late in the 20's..

Danny has to either get multiple assets or include bad contracts or we are going to be caught in no mans land, high salary, low value trade chips on long term deals and a team that will consistently get a low playoff seed

This deal needs to be the key move in either completely rebuilding or reloading.. right now all it does is replace our starting center with an inferior one on a more expensive deal, removes our coach and gives us a late first round pick, which is something u can get with far smaller trades then this

I just don't get it..

Rondo
Bradley/Lee/Terry
Pierce/Green
Bass/Sullinger
Jordan/Melo

What does that team do? obviously there are more moves to be made but look at how many pieces would have to be on the move for that team to even have a real direction, more has to be included into this clippers deal or there is no point in doing it.. almost the opposite

I'm not sure what you're missing here.
You can't trade the whole team at once. Our coach is leaving, if he leaves, KG is gone too. We need to acquire any kind of assets for the 'future' that you talk about if they are going to leave.
That squad you've listed above is an egg basket of goodies for us to use in future trades and for development purposes. We haven't hit draft night yet either. Who knows what Danny will do in 5 nights?
Rondo could go. I doubt he does go because he's on such a good deal, he'd have to bring back more value than he's actually worth at this stage.
Run the young ponies and let em build trade value. That squad you mention if managed properly is not scoring any points. Defense is nice, rebounding is good... but it lacks three point shooting, jumpshooting, free throw shooting. I could go on forever but we'd be a bottom 8 team anyway.
Let Rondo sit and let Jordan play all night, let Bradley shoot away and let Melo get back up minutes.
Sully, Green and Rondo will be solid but only as much as we let them be.

All these youngin's build their value. Guys like Jordan average 10 and 10 at least on this squad, but we still suck because he's 4 of 15 from the line. Rondo is throwing lobs more frequently than Paul did in LA because we are actually running plays for Jordan here. The kid has never had any offense geared towards him and we can make him look alot better than he really is with the right offense.

The tank begins when we say so. Danny can move Lee, Bass and Terry for giant sloth garbage contracts and some more picks and assets.
We need to get bad whilst developing assets. Hopefully we can land a top 5 pick if we manage this team into a serious tank like 2006 and cross our fingers. Even if we don't land a top 5 pick we'll still have a huge hoard of desirable players who have increased in value from as we speak.
Plan A is to tank for a year and hope for a nice all star level pick of some kind, then use this stars cheap deal moving forward and adding some big free agents to this kid and Rondo, Green and Sully. (if we decide to keep Rondo)
Plan B is basically plan A except if we miss out on serious talent in the draft, we can sign up some monster free agents in 2015 like Marc Gasol, Aldridge, Love, Klay Thompson, Curry etc... to join Rondo and Green.

There just arent any decent free agents this year, and next year is pretty rough too. The best available talent and shot at changing our franchise to a competitor is to acquire a superstar in the draft. If we don't get a superstar in the draft, use the youngins we have to trade for a few and go from there.
Danny's done it before with arguably less talent. Can't see why we can't trust him this time around. He's very dangerous with even mid to late first round draft picks.
Have some faith in the long term goal.

[John Locke]

* Ainge is trying to NEGOTIATE. That means that you don't always get what you want. It's hard for us to know, with any certainty, what KG's market value is. This is such a unique deal. Both teams have a certain amount of leverage.
I've studied negotiations in my Masters program. I bet others here have to. When you're negotiating you have to think about your B.A.T.N.A = Best alternative to a negotiated agreement. Right now, Ainge b.a.t.n.a. gets worse and worse, we can risk losing both of them without getting anything. DeAndre Jordan is not a top tier Center in this League. But he's not a liability like some here think. He is in between. But his contract runs for only two years. Theo Ratliff's contract also ran for two years when we got him. Traded him a year later for KG.

* Ainge can do a whole lot with draft picks. Look at his record drafting late: Rondo, Bradley, Sully, Al Jefferson, Perkins, Tony Allen, Delonte West, Big Baby...the list goes on and on. Getting two draft picks would be fantastic. We're talking about a player that has one season (maybe) left in him and a coach.
Sam Mitchell made a great point. He said that Ainge doesn't have all the leverage in the Doc trade. If he says no to Doc, and denies him the opportunity to leave, Doc can come back and collect 7 million $ a year. Can clock out at two every day and force Ainge's hand to fire him. So Danny doesn't have all the power - you never really do in negotiations. If you would have all the power, you wouldn't sit down and listen to offers.

* We can continue to make assumptions, but please do know that we have a very capable GM trying to maximize what we can get out of the deal.
I would rather get DeAndre Jordan and two 1st round picks than nothing for our coach and our oldest player. It's good to get the salary that Jordan is paid, to piece together a deal if something pops up in the next two years.
Then we just start rebuilding. I think we should be able to move Lee, Terry and Bass without any big trouble. They don't have a negative value. Their contracts are reasonable. We probably keep one of Terry or Lee (hopefully the later).

[BadWolf]

Come on I know that... what I'm saying is that from a team and fan perspective this is HUGE, we are trading a heart and soul of a team in Garnett and Doc who has been entrenched with the organisation for near a decade for what?

Jordan is a decent big man prospect, but when he's getting paid $13 million, giving you less than Garnett on a bigger deal...I don't see it as being a step at all, may as well just let them all go.

Would Garnett say no to a trade to OKC, Chicago, San Antonio, Indiana etc if he was told we were rebuilding? sure he might threaten to retire but they might at least give us a better pick and a shorter contract or a cheap young prospect instead of one already getting paid like an All-Star... if we did that, then let Doc go to TV and lose millions a year, we still end up in a better situation

KG is far more likely to retire or reject a trade to anywhere other than the Clippers even if we tell him we're rebuilding. Do you not remember how hard it was to get him to accept a trade away from Minnesota?

It's simple: Our choices are trade KG/Doc and get 1sts and a decent young big in Jordan, or sit back, do nothing, lose KG and Doc both to retirement next year, and end up with nothing to show for it.

Getting a decent young big for a player who's got 1 season left in the tank is absolutely a good deal. You're worrying too much about contracts. You can always find ways to dump salary if you decide you want to go the FA route.

it depends on your position with Jordan. Does he have a positive value or negative?
i think he's a negative asset with his production and salary, so this trade is not good.
Maybe we can send him somewhere for something useful.

[pp34thetruth_]

with KG as a goner
our defense will be the embarassment of the league...
and thats sad
at least if we have to lose, lets tank
we won't be a contender even with Smith+Rondo
lets tank at least

[sam_I_am]

Which will be a better asset next year, KG's 11 million with only 6 million guaranteed or Jordan 13 million expiring? 1 Clipper pick at 28 or so for Doc is something.

I'd pass.

[jfs1000d]

Celtics have to be a playoff team heading into next year. If we get enough assets, we could flip them for a player to get us there.

I don't want to tank -- EVER -- and would much prefer having a young team and up and coming get a 7 seed.

[pp34thetruth_]

maybe DA thinks DAJ can turn into a Tyson Chandler kind of player, TC was very unskilled and raw during his CHI days....

[WhateverBro]

Celtics have to be a playoff team heading into next year. If we get enough assets, we could flip them for a player to get us there.

I don't want to tank -- EVER -- and would much prefer having a young team and up and coming get a 7 seed.

With this trade, and letting Pierce go, this team isnt even close to a playoff team.

We will be absolutely awful without Garnett on the defensive end. We're going to get killed on the boards even worse than we've been these last few years and not to mention that teams will have a field day attacking the rim.

Since Ainge has obviously decided to waive Pierce, our best option is to do a complete rebuild. Stack up on assets and try to bring in a star player or get lucky in the draft. Free agency won't net us anything that'll bring us to a championship.

[Ben-N1ce]

Celtics have to be a playoff team heading into next year. If we get enough assets, we could flip them for a player to get us there.

I don't want to tank -- EVER -- and would much prefer having a young team and up and coming get a 7 seed.

With this trade, and letting Pierce go, this team isnt even close to a playoff team.

We will be absolutely awful without Garnett on the defensive end. We're going to get killed on the boards even worse than we've been these last few years and not to mention that teams will have a field day attacking the rim.

Since Ainge has obviously decided to waive Pierce, our best option is to do a complete rebuild. Stack up on assets and try to bring in a star player or get lucky in the draft. Free agency won't net us anything that'll bring us to a championship.

Yep. Very deep draft next year. Nothing worse than hovering in Bucks territory over and over.

[Marley2Hendrix]

(right click - open in new window/tab)

Whole lot of people saying Jordan is what he is. I will continue to reiterate that centers develop slowly, and Jordan's trajectory as a player is still in its ascent. I'm not saying he will turn out like Chandler, but rather there is a long history of centers continuing to develop into their mid to late 20's.

[MassAttack]

I like jordan, but we decided way too late to do this bull. The only great coach we can go after unless its some inspired nobody pick would be hollins. Missed out on budenholzer weeks ago. Depending on what product is shown on the court, danny and doc should both probably get out of here smh.

[Stadium5]

Celtics have to be a playoff team heading into next year. If we get enough assets, we could flip them for a player to get us there.

I don't want to tank -- EVER -- and would much prefer having a young team and up and coming get a 7 seed.

Dude, like what kind of attitude is this. This is what scares me about so many fans. Do you watch the Celtics just so that you have some playoffs to watch every year, or do you watch them to see them win championships?

Our core isn't exactly up and coming. Rondo and Green are nearing their peaks. And they're both third options on a championship team. They wont get that much better than what you see now.

How is constantly struggling to score a basket every play against a high seed gonna be fun to watch every year?

[GreenMachine]

I still just don't see a positive to the deal.. it leaves SO much work to be done, whether we want to compete or rebuild

Did you say this when we traded Twan? Or when we got Ricky Davis? This is the FIRST trade of the rebuilding. YES - LOTS of work to be done. Expect "Trader Dan" to be back in business. He will be flipping players left and right like the old days. Picking up assets and draft picks.

Rome, nor the 2008 Championship Team, were built in a day my friend...