Celtics and Clippers Deal #2 UPDATE DEAD, DEAD, DEAD

[15th overall]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ramonashelburne/status/347023110031167488[/tweet]

[celtics543]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ramonashelburne/status/347023110031167488[/tweet]

It didn't go well for the Clippers. As a Celtics fan I'm thrilled that Danny didn't just give in and hand them KG/Doc for Deandre and a 1st.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

For people referencing the Antoine trade like it was a good thing in the long run.. that trade was god awful. We had to give up a lotto pick (highest pick in Ainge's tenure) just to shed a single year of Raef's albatross deal. We would have been better off waiting a year and getting Jason Terry and scraps like the Mavs got. The lesson there is sometimes it's better to not take a collection of garbage cleverly disguised as "assets".

But....but...but...but we got Jiri Welsch! The European Havlicek!

Didn't it ultimately land the picks that got West(vital to Sonics trade for Jesus) and TA in exactly the type of picks that we are trying to acquire?

That's true. Ainge miraculously got a 1st rounder for Jiri Welsch. Amazing!!

[celticsfan34]

If in fact the deal is called off good for Boston, they shouldn't have to give up doc and KG for less than what their value is. If they were not gonna give up bledsoe and/or take one of, if not both contracts of terry and lee than Boston shouldn't have done the deal.

[Shamrock]

Clips will crawl back before free agency starts. Joke of a franchise.

[zronv7]

yep this is a victory for the celtics.

[Shamrock]

If we end up with the same team for next season ill be enormously disappointed. 2nd round at best.

[tfmiii]

If this deal goes down as is currently reported Danny has truly screwed up. If the trade goes through, we will have gone from a team that would have had a decent shot in the east with some minor tweaks, to a team that is neither terrible nor good enough to win anything

I think we were screwed once Doc started buying the groceries.

There is another thread on the price we paid for Lee... makes me ill to think about it. that one is clearly on Doc.

Terry... another short-sighted move. Re-signing Bass, true, not such a bad contract, but do we do it if we know we are rebuilding? Both predicated on this team running it back - clearly the preference of Doc, PP, KG. It all began with the veto of the Ray-Mayo trade, again I imagine from those three.

Once those three signings (Lee, JET, Bass) went sour we were screwed. And they left no cap room to continue on. So last season was truly make it or break it and it broke. And this was clear even before Rondo went down when Doc could not get the guys on the same page, Doc's worst performance since '06-'07.

We started seeing friction btn Doc and DA over team philosophy, which tells me that if we are seeing it the problem runs much much deeper. Even then we kept up the 'let's see how they respond' talk to keep up trade value. But one could interpret that there was a struggle going on over the future direction of the franchise.

Ainge is reasserting direction of the team's future.

[pac213up]

Steve Bulpett @SteveBHoop 1 minute ago

Clippers won't give up 2 1st-rounders and Jordan for Doc, KG. Talks done. Celts wondering what Doc wants to do now.

[greenpierce]

Thank goodness. Listening to Ramona on the radio last night while driving home was making me so pissed.

[ConnorHenry]

I guess I see things a bit differently. I think Boston needed the trade more than LA.

Boston now is stuck with KG on the books unless he retires (or even if, not sure on that part so maybe a capologist can clarify).

Boston will still pay Doc $7m annually even if hits the broadcasting booth, right?

LA likely will get a good coach regardless. The candidate pool is deep.

They still have the inside track on CP3 because they can offer more $$$$ than other teams can.

I think those are the reasons LA felt like it didn't need to meet Ainge's demands.

[Slartibartfast]

Rondo can't make teams pay for doubling and Jordan can't be counted on to pass effectively out of doubles. Spacing is going to be a major issue unless AB-Green-Sully really show out shooting the ball from deep (possible, but not too likely). Jordan is a threat around the basket but teams WILL foul him and that hurts you when the rest of your offense is mediocre at best.

Defensively you are right, Jordan is a good fit and a pretty solid player. The issue is that if you can't score consistently or generate quality opportunities you don't get to set your defense.

Ultimately that group has some upside if guys develop or play above their heads, but there are a ton of ifs. Could easily see that group struggling to score 90 points most nights.

This is what happens when you start rebuilding - you put unproven players in prominent roles and hope they develop. You deal with a ton of ifs. Sully and AB need to be able to shoot the ball well if they're to be viewed as anything more than part-time specialists.

The downside is that all the gambles mix together to form a horrid self-defeating team, like what we experienced in 05/06 and 06/07, but even in those cases, our big ifs managed to retain enough value to land some excellent players in trades and we got the added benefit of high draft picks.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Steve Bulpett @SteveBHoop 1 minute ago

Clippers won't give up 2 1st-rounders and Jordan for Doc, KG. Talks done. Celts wondering what Doc wants to do now.

Good.

Doc cannot come home though after this. Wonder who the next coach will be.

[StojkoVrankovic]

Steve Bulpett @SteveBHoop 1 minute ago

Clippers won't give up 2 1st-rounders and Jordan for Doc, KG. Talks done. Celts wondering what Doc wants to do now.

With all the tampering that has been done you would think they would jump at that offer.

KG agreeing to waive his no trade cause is proof enough that Doc/Clips have been talking, screw him

[GreenBloodedC]

That franchise is a joke

[Andrew McCeltic]

Ok, two outsider questions:

1. Why are all the details of this negotiation so public? Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but it seems unprecedented to have this much back and forth in the media about offers and counter-offers. Usually you find out after the fact, like 'Ainge wanted Harden from OKC for Perkins, but settled for Green' - you don't get this play by play..

2. Is this kind of negotiation typical? Seems like they're at a stalemate, so why stay in it? It seems like a dysfunctional relationship- they've locked horns and can't let go.

[165bows]

Clips will crawl back before free agency starts. Joke of a franchise.

Agreed. Especially with the Bledsoe for Afflalo rumors.

So if you are the Clips you can have Jordan, your own draft pick in the twenties, and Afflalo, or KG/Doc/Pierce/Lee.

Seems simple to me. Wouldn't surprise me to see Bledsoe after all.

[Slartibartfast]

For people referencing the Antoine trade like it was a good thing in the long run.. that trade was god awful. We had to give up a lotto pick (highest pick in Ainge's tenure) just to shed a single year of Raef's albatross deal. We would have been better off waiting a year and getting Jason Terry and scraps like the Mavs got. The lesson there is sometimes it's better to not take a collection of garbage cleverly disguised as "assets".

It sucked because Raef was signed for so many years and he was damaged goods. If Raef's contract had been shorter it would have been a good deal.

[TommyPoints]

Ubuntu!

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Ok, two outsider questions:

1. Why are all the details of this negotiation so public? Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but it seems unprecedented to have this much back and forth in the media about offers and counter-offers. Usually you find out after the fact, like 'Ainge wanted Harden from OKC for Perkins, but settled for Green' - you don't get this play by play..

I think it goes to show how bad the LAC front office is in terms of keeping a secret. When the Celtics are involved in trade rumors with other teams, we usually hear about them after talks fall apart. I'm guessing someone within the Clippers has loose lips (vaginal reference towards Chris Paul not intended).