Celtics and Clippers Deal #2 UPDATE DEAD, DEAD, DEAD

[TommyPoints]

Clips get a lot out of this. Asking for an extra pick or taking on one of our contracts (Terry/Lee) is not asking much. LA is being cheap. Maybe they have some other good options out there. We'll see. I'm perfectly happy on exploring other options or just letting KG and Doc bow out.

It's not cheap. It's that the team is in talks for other deals as well and feel Hollins/Shaw+Jordan, those 1st rounders and not taking a cap dump isn't much worse than the Celtics deal scenario. Again from the outside Doc is the best coach but you guys have dealt with him for 9 years and seem to think he's highly overrated. So let me ask you guys. Do you feel Doc is a massive upgrade to say Lionel Hollins? Because Hollins, Shaw, Scott, Gentry and many others badly want the Clippers job.

I do feel he is overrated, but it is about perception more than anything. He is highly regarded and his value is high. KG probably doesn't even have interest in going to LA without him. My opinion as a Celtics fan is that the deal offered by LA isn't worth it. Maybe it is the best move to walk away for both franchises if LA has moves they like just as much.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Jordan and drafting someone like Ledo wasn't much of a gain... Am fine with this falling apart.

[smith2373]

Not me. I've talked about how KG's still probably the best post defender in the entire NBA and is still a 15/8/3 player which is excellent. Him and Pierce have aged beautifully. Still doesn't change the fact that he's contemplated retirement two straight years now and next year could very well be his last, if not this summer.

So the best post defender, with 2 years left on his deal, for a guy who's not nearly as good, but paid the same money over 2 years. Clippers were getting a steal... Morons.

As I said... I personally DO feel it was worth it which is why I said I wish the trade was completed. Just saying there is risk involved considering KG may retire this year or next. If he was 35 years old and was going to play 2-3 years at least... I'd give Boston 3-4 picks.

What risk? Giving up an overpaid and not that good DeAndre Jordan and two late 1st round picks?

[CelticFaninLBC]

Not me. I've talked about how KG's still probably the best post defender in the entire NBA and is still a 15/8/3 player which is excellent. Him and Pierce have aged beautifully. Still doesn't change the fact that he's contemplated retirement two straight years now and next year could very well be his last, if not this summer.

So the best post defender, with 2 years left on his deal, for a guy who's not nearly as good, but paid the same money over 2 years. Clippers were getting a steal... Morons.

As I said... I personally DO feel it was worth it which is why I said I wish the trade was completed. Just saying there is risk involved considering KG may retire this year or next. If he was 35 years old and was going to play 2-3 years at least... I'd give Boston 3-4 picks.

He wouldn't walk away from the money, Doc or Pierce.. The Clippers are a joke of an organization.

[ermocrate]

Clips get a lot out of this. Asking for an extra pick or taking on one of our contracts (Terry/Lee) is not asking much. LA is being cheap. Maybe they have some other good options out there. We'll see. I'm perfectly happy on exploring other options or just letting KG and Doc bow out.

It's not cheap. It's that the team is in talks for other deals as well and feel Hollins/Shaw+Jordan, those 1st rounders and not taking a cap dump isn't much worse than the Celtics deal scenario. Again from the outside Doc is the best coach but you guys have dealt with him for 9 years and seem to think he's highly overrated. So let me ask you guys. Do you feel Doc is a massive upgrade to say Lionel Hollins? Because Hollins, Shaw, Scott, Gentry and many others badly want the Clippers job.

More than massive upgrade, Doc is not a coach, is a **** genius for a title team and developing the young guys slowly, sucks at managing young team and at "organic " coaching, he is one of the best at situational coaching....

[LobCityClips]

So the best post defender, with 2 years left on his deal, for a guy who's not nearly as good, but paid the same money over 2 years. Clippers were getting a steal... Morons.

As I said... I personally DO feel it was worth it which is why I said I wish the trade was completed. Just saying there is risk involved considering KG may retire this year or next. If he was 35 years old and was going to play 2-3 years at least... I'd give Boston 3-4 picks.

What risk? Giving up an overpaid and not that good DeAndre Jordan and two late 1st round picks?

Risk of a 1 year rental for a guy who can't stay healthy at this age. Imagine the worst case scenario of KG gets injured around playoff time, we are out in the 2nd round again and he retires. Then what?

[LobCityClips]

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/cli ... ne-dealing

Like I said. No matter what we are making trades. Just maybe not with the Celtics.

[Berkcelt]

Clippers are responsible for trade kicker, NOT the Celtics. Also... even by just reading your board it's pretty clear this trio won't be Celtics next year and now some of you are arguing they may be? You think Doc is going to return now? KG isn't going to retire as you guys go into rebuilding? Pierce will find himself to the Clippers the first week of July anyways.

You're saying we don't get something from them. I think a lot of us are saying not having Jordan on our cap is something. PP is getting traded, and what we get for him doesn't change whether or not the KG/Doc deal goes down. If KG retires, we buy him out and get that off our cap too. What we're losing out on is probably the 25th pick in this **** draft. And Doc may very well take the year off, but if he wants to coach in the next three years a team is still going to have to compensate us. I think we can get one pick in that scenario.

(btw, we don't pay the kicker, but I believe it counts on our cap.)

Why would a rebuilding team wanting high draft picks, especially for next year use cap space to try to improve and become a fringe playoff team, which is the absolute worst place to be. The best free agent in 2014 will be 37 year old Kobe. Having a ton of cap space for 2014 means NOTHING and signing players when you want to rebuild, not remain semi relevant is an awful way to rebuild.

DJ comes off the books in two years and THAT year of free agency is significantly better/deeper.

I never said we have to use it, but it gives us flexibility moving forward. If a top tier guy becomes available before his free agency year (like Chris Paul or Dwight Howard for instance), you want flexibility. Jordan could very well be a liability — maybe not — but we don't need to pay him for our team to suck. If we were getting some cap relief, I'd do the deal, FWIW.

[CelticFaninLBC]

As I said... I personally DO feel it was worth it which is why I said I wish the trade was completed. Just saying there is risk involved considering KG may retire this year or next. If he was 35 years old and was going to play 2-3 years at least... I'd give Boston 3-4 picks.

What risk? Giving up an overpaid and not that good DeAndre Jordan and two late 1st round picks?

Risk of a 1 year rental for a guy who can't stay healthy at this age. Imagine the worst case scenario of KG gets injured around playoff time, we are out in the 2nd round again and he retires. Then what?

You're out in the 1st round with Jordan though...

[CelticFaninLBC]

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/clippers/post/_/id/4655/clippers-are-far-from-done-dealing

Like I said. No matter what we are making trades. Just maybe not with the Celtics.

Affalo's not that good. Don't get your hopes up with the Clown Show.

[TommyPoints]

Let's be honest. The Clippers DO NOT want Jordan. The risk is giving up 2 picks. How much you value the picks is the only thing really to debate.

[LobCityClips]

You're saying we don't get something from them. I think a lot of us are saying not having Jordan on our cap is something. PP is getting traded, and what we get for him doesn't change whether or not the KG/Doc deal goes down. If KG retires, we buy him out and get that off our cap too. What we're losing out on is probably the 25th pick in this **** draft. And Doc may very well take the year off, but if he wants to coach in the next three years a team is still going to have to compensate us. I think we can get one pick in that scenario.

(btw, we don't pay the kicker, but I believe it counts on our cap.)

Why would a rebuilding team wanting high draft picks, especially for next year use cap space to try to improve and become a fringe playoff team, which is the absolute worst place to be. The best free agent in 2014 will be 37 year old Kobe. Having a ton of cap space for 2014 means NOTHING and signing players when you want to rebuild, not remain semi relevant is an awful way to rebuild.

DJ comes off the books in two years and THAT year of free agency is significantly better/deeper.

I never said we have to use it, but it gives us flexibility moving forward. If a top tier guy becomes available before his free agency year (like Chris Paul or Dwight Howard for instance), you want flexibility. Jordan could very well be a liability — maybe not — but we don't need to pay him for our team to suck. If we were getting some cap relief, I'd do the deal, FWIW.

So you want cap space although you shouldn't use it? Better to be a lottery team a couple years than a 9-10 seed brother. Trust me as a long time Clippers fan I've been there far more times than you guys have (I know, you envy me!). Better to basically tank for a couple lotto picks, deal Rondo off... AND to make things better DJ may very well become Tyson Chandler 2.0. If you look at their year by year comparison their development is remarkably similar.

[smith2373]

As I said... I personally DO feel it was worth it which is why I said I wish the trade was completed. Just saying there is risk involved considering KG may retire this year or next. If he was 35 years old and was going to play 2-3 years at least... I'd give Boston 3-4 picks.

What risk? Giving up an overpaid and not that good DeAndre Jordan and two late 1st round picks?

Risk of a 1 year rental for a guy who can't stay healthy at this age. Imagine the worst case scenario of KG gets injured around playoff time, we are out in the 2nd round again and he retires. Then what?

If you want to win a title, you have to take risks. So what if you guys sign Dwight and he blows out his back again? Are you not gonna sign Dwight because he may suffer a significant injury to his back again? I'm not comparing signing Dwight to signing KG but you'll always have to take risks and there's always a chance of injury when you make a transaction, regardless of who the player is.

And what do you mean KG can't stay healthy? He's had no significant injury since his knee injury back in 2009. CP3 is more injury prone than KG is.

And yeah that could be the worst case scenario. But imagine the best case scenario and that KG remains healthy, the Clippers become legit contenders for the first time ever and potentially make a Finals appearance. There's two sides to it.

If the Clippers value the picks so much, put a lottery protection on them.

[FlatearthZorro]

To sum what everybody else wrote, I'm more than okay with this deal not going down. Jordan is an overpaid scrub, and probably the worst FT shooter in the league, dude should count his lucky stars, cause if he wasn't 7 feet tall, he'd be flipping burgers at McDonald's... 25 th pick in the 2nd worst draft in the last 13 years- I can live with not having that either. Not to mention the Clippers didn't even wanna take a player like Terry or Lee who are useful for a team that's supposedly trying to win a championship. Sterling is a bum, the Clippers aren't going anywhere, even if Paul resigns, he will start whining in a year max, because the Clippers wont be able to sign any1 who can help him(PAUL) get out of the 1st-2nd round(and that 4-5 spot in the West)...


It's all good, Celtics' managment did a good job of not bending over and letting Clips do them from behind. Doc will go broadcast, KG will retire, Celts organisation will save a ton of cash and all in all it's okay, we're rebuilding anyways and we didn't miss out on anything...

[Berkcelt]

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/clippers/post/_/id/4655/clippers-are-far-from-done-dealing

Like I said. No matter what we are making trades. Just maybe not with the Celtics.

Hey, I say, fair enough. But we can say the exact same thing just trade out "Celtics" for "Clippers."

[LobCityClips]

Let's be honest. The Clippers DO NOT want Jordan. The risk is giving up 2 picks. How much you value the picks is the only thing really to debate.

This statement needs context. Yes the Clippers do not want Jordan and that has EVERYTHING to do with being in a win now mode and the development of a contender's "title or bust" mentality. Doesn't mean he doesn't have value anywhere else, especially for rebuilding teams. Just means the Clippers don't have the patience or time to develop the kid. His big liability (free throw shooting) happens to be one we can't afford as currently structured as a team.

[SuperDeluxe]

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/clippers/post/_/id/4655/clippers-are-far-from-done-dealing

Like I said. No matter what we are making trades. Just maybe not with the Celtics.

Of course you are. The clock is ticking.

[LobCityClips]

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/clippers/post/_/id/4655/clippers-are-far-from-done-dealing

Like I said. No matter what we are making trades. Just maybe not with the Celtics.

Hey, I say, fair enough. But we can say the exact same thing just trade out "Celtics" for "Clippers."

Agreed. Neither team is ruined. Just think the short term repercussions are worse for Boston as I said, although since you guys seem fine with letting Doc, KG and Pierce go... maybe it isn't bad for you.

[soxfan2003]

Clippers are responsible for trade kicker, NOT the Celtics. Also... even by just reading your board it's pretty clear this trio won't be Celtics next year and now some of you are arguing they may be? You think Doc is going to return now? KG isn't going to retire as you guys go into rebuilding? Pierce will find himself to the Clippers the first week of July anyways.

You're saying we don't get something from them. I think a lot of us are saying not having Jordan on our cap is something. PP is getting traded, and what we get for him doesn't change whether or not the KG/Doc deal goes down. If KG retires, we buy him out and get that off our cap too. What we're losing out on is probably the 25th pick in this **** draft. And Doc may very well take the year off, but if he wants to coach in the next three years a team is still going to have to compensate us. I think we can get one pick in that scenario.

(btw, we don't pay the kicker, but I believe it counts on our cap.)

Why would a rebuilding team wanting high draft picks, especially for next year use cap space to try to improve and become a fringe playoff team, which is the absolute worst place to be. The best free agent in 2014 will be 37 year old Kobe. Having a ton of cap space for 2014 means NOTHING and signing players when you want to rebuild, not remain semi relevant is an awful way to rebuild.

DJ comes off the books in two years and THAT year of free agency is significantly better/deeper.

What you say is pretty true on one level. The FA class of 2014 will actually have some good players if guys opt out but in the Celtics situation they shouldn't go after that FA class. The rebuilding Celtics shouldn't be interested in the 2014 FA class unless Lebron unexpectedly wants to play in Boston. That being said there is a major benefit of lets say trading KG for a 1 year expiring contract instead of a 2 year expiring contract like DJ. The player with the one year expiring contract can be flipped at the deadline for a player with an additional year and the Celtics get compensated for it with a lottery protected pick or two.

Instead of the Deandre Jordan's, I personally think this Celtic team should be rebuilt with lots of draft picks. With just 1 pick from trading KG/Rivers, it just didn't make enough sense for the Celtics. I'd honestly rather have Rivers return to television and KG retire -- if he wants -- then that trade.

[LobCityClips]

You're saying we don't get something from them. I think a lot of us are saying not having Jordan on our cap is something. PP is getting traded, and what we get for him doesn't change whether or not the KG/Doc deal goes down. If KG retires, we buy him out and get that off our cap too. What we're losing out on is probably the 25th pick in this **** draft. And Doc may very well take the year off, but if he wants to coach in the next three years a team is still going to have to compensate us. I think we can get one pick in that scenario.

(btw, we don't pay the kicker, but I believe it counts on our cap.)

Why would a rebuilding team wanting high draft picks, especially for next year use cap space to try to improve and become a fringe playoff team, which is the absolute worst place to be. The best free agent in 2014 will be 37 year old Kobe. Having a ton of cap space for 2014 means NOTHING and signing players when you want to rebuild, not remain semi relevant is an awful way to rebuild.

DJ comes off the books in two years and THAT year of free agency is significantly better/deeper.

What you say is pretty true on one level. The FA class of 2014 will actually have some good players if guys opt out but in the Celtics situation they shouldn't go after that FA class. The rebuilding Celtics shouldn't be interested in the 2014 FA class unless Lebron unexpectedly wants to play in Boston. That being said there is a major benefit of lets say trading KG for a 1 year expiring contract instead of a 2 year expiring contract like DJ. The player with the one year expiring contract can be flipped at the deadline for a player with an additional year and the Celtics get compensated for it with a lottery protected pick or two.

Instead of the Deandre Jordan's, I personally think this Celtic team should be rebuilt with lots of draft picks. With just 1 pick from trading KG/Rivers, it just didn't make enough sense for the Celtics. I'd honestly rather have Rivers return to television and KG retire -- if he wants -- then that trade.

You win a lot more with Pierce, KG, Doc than DJ too... so this trade could benefit you guys in tanking.