Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII

[Howard Cosell]

Question from a Twolves fan:

Has the Wizards brought in Cody Zeller for a workout? The man just crushed it in the last few days working out with the Twolves and the Kings. If you guys are truly looking for a stretch 4 I think Cody Zeller is starting to fly up the Draft Boards, and for good reason. Has there been any Cody Zeller talk in Wizard land?

[The Consiglieri]

Ford still has Noel to Cle, Victor O to Orlando.

I want to know why everyone keeps saying bennett has upside? Porter has no upside? What makes Bennett have upside? Is he going to grow more? Is he just more skilled than Porter. They are both about the same age and OP made great improvments last year..to me he has more upside because he works so hard on his game

Analysis: The Wizards continue to be in a strong position at No. 3. The two players they really like -- Porter and UNLV's Anthony Bennett -- are both on the board here. Both are getting looks from the Cavs, but neither is the favorite at this point. There continues to be a pretty strong debate on this one inside the front office, and it might come down to risk aversion for the Wizards. Do they go with more of a sure thing (Porter) or gamble on the guy with more upside (Bennett)?

One year in college, is tremendously athletic, can get a lot more fit if he can stay healthy (asthma becomes a problem when you have inconsistent exercise habits, which can occur due to injury, exercise induced asthma usually goes away once you become more fit), and was a dynamic offensive weapon who could take it to the hole, or step back and hit a shot from anywhere, tremendous finisher. He has a lot of room to grow as an offensive weapon, and is already dynamite. Porter really seems like the jack of all trades, fill the stat line type, who is good at many things but great at nothing (save BBIQ, and possibly rebounding). He isn't a great or dynamic finisher, rarely takes it to the hole with aggression, doesn't have the best first step, and isn't super athletic. His selling point is that he's good at everything never takes a second off, and nearly always makes good to great decisions, defends well, rebounds well, and should definitely be a solid player a the next level at worst.

But Bennett on the offensive end is just worlds better, and he only had one season in college compared to Porter's two. Who knows how much he could have grown with more time, and/or a better coach like JTIII? As is, he's already a better offensive weapon, and has a lot more room to grow.

[The Consiglieri]

Ford still has Noel to Cle, Victor O to Orlando.

I want to know why everyone keeps saying bennett has upside? Porter has no upside? What makes Bennett have upside? Is he going to grow more? Is he just more skilled than Porter. They are both about the same age and OP made great improvments last year..to me he has more upside because he works so hard on his game

Analysis: The Wizards continue to be in a strong position at No. 3. The two players they really like -- Porter and UNLV's Anthony Bennett -- are both on the board here. Both are getting looks from the Cavs, but neither is the favorite at this point. There continues to be a pretty strong debate on this one inside the front office, and it might come down to risk aversion for the Wizards. Do they go with more of a sure thing (Porter) or gamble on the guy with more upside (Bennett)?

In my honest opinion, one of the main reasons that people think Bennett has a lot of upside is because he's from a mid-major conference. It's all in people's heads. Similarly, Porter is seen as NBA ready but having limited upside because the Georgetown uniform screams solid fundamentals but no huge upside. I dunno, maybe you guys disagree, but I think that has a large role in people's perception. I also think their skin tones play a role, in a similar sense.

I agree with you though, no reason that Porter doesn't have just as much, if not more, upside. This is a kid who didn't play AAU ball in high school, he just trained with his dad in the middle of nowhere, Missouri (I can say that because I went to school in the state lol). I also agree that the fact that he progressed so much from his freshman season to his sophomore season is a very good sign. It means he's a hard worker and he can make a lot of noticeable improvements in just one off-season, as a 19 year old nonetheless! That tells me that he's likely to continue working hard and develop further.

I don't think its that way at all, at least for me anyway, it seems an odd bit of reasoning and has nothing to do with my point of view.

[The Consiglieri]

So my post got jammed into the end of the the last page but I just realized that Bennett is older than Porter. For some reason I never knew that. Porter actually had better ORTG/DRTG in freshmen to freshmen comparisons and the TS% wasn't much different not even considering the difference in position/strength of conference.

I'm not sure if there is even an argument for Bennett having the higher offensive ceiling based off of the numbers I'm looking at now.

Just as I argued with Shabazz, age matters, but it matters far more with guys that our seniors or juniors, than it does with guys that overage freshman comp'd to other freshman, or sophmores. The coaching experience in a professional college environment is equally important. Bennett being older has been discussed for weeks, and sure it matters a bit, but having 2 years with Georgetown is about 10x as valuable as 1 year at UNLV, and focusing entirely on the b-day w/a freshman, and not at all on the players comparative college exposure, particularly if a program was in disarray (think Drummond last year, Muhammad this year) is beyond foolish to me.

[Ruzious]

Question from a Twolves fan:

Has the Wizards brought in Cody Zeller for a workout? The man just crushed it in the last few days working out with the Twolves and the Kings. If you guys are truly looking for a stretch 4 I think Cody Zeller is starting to fly up the Draft Boards, and for good reason. Has there been any Cody Zeller talk in Wizard land?

Word is - he was invited and he turned the Wiz invitation down. I don't know why he would have done that. In fact, the PF on that Indiana team - who probably won't even be drafted - worked out with the Zards while both Zeller and Ola declined offers to visit - though at least Ola offered to let the Wiz visit his workout.

[Ruzious]

Again if I were the Wizards, these would be the two I was considering. And the Wizards don't exactly seem sophisticated in hiding their pick. In 2011, even starving kids in the Sudan knew that the Wizards were planning to draft Vesely. Cleveland obfuscates things, I doubt the Wizards do that very much.

Aside from the Vesely pick (where they invited some dignitaries from Vesely's country to attend the draft - giving it away days before the draft), we've commented year after year that EG is generally very good at keeping any news from getting out. Most of what comes out is from agents. Agents lie.

??

We knew they wanted to trade the pick after the lottery in '09 and they did.

We've known they liked Wall and Seraphin in '10, and they drafted both.

In '11 We knew they loved Vesely in '10 (so much so that supposedly he was the target with their pick before Vesely kept himself out of the draft and we moved to #1, and would take him in '11, and there were rumors we liked Singleton.

In '12 all the smoke was about Beal or MKG, and we tok Beal with MKG off the board.

If anything, it's seems as if we leak like a sieve, draft after draft, indeed you'd have to go back all the way to '08 to find a year they somewhat surprised anyone with their pick.

I think you've done a fine job of believing what you want to believe - especially when you bring up Wall. Of course he was the pick - no matter who got that pick, Wall was going to be the 1st pick. And Seraphin as well as Booker - in that draft were not known to be the Wiz picks before the draft.

[Rafael122]

Question from a Twolves fan:

Has the Wizards brought in Cody Zeller for a workout? The man just crushed it in the last few days working out with the Twolves and the Kings. If you guys are truly looking for a stretch 4 I think Cody Zeller is starting to fly up the Draft Boards, and for good reason. Has there been any Cody Zeller talk in Wizard land?

Word is - he was invited and he turned the Wiz invitation down. I don't know why he would have done that. In fact, the PF on that Indiana team - who probably won't even be drafted - worked out with the Zards while both Zeller and Ola declined offers to visit - though at least Ola offered to let the Wiz visit his workout.

There was talk if we landed the 7th or 8th pick but I guess his camp figured why waste everyone's time with a workout.

[The Consiglieri]

Rocky, it's a different situation. We don't have a building block 3, and we do have a building block 2.

Having said that - if the Wiz pick Ola (they don't have the guts and/or brains to even consider it, imo), I'd be fine with that.

Right, I know we aren't even considering it, which kinda annoys me. And yeah, I understand that we have a true young core piece with Beal at the 2, so I get why it doesn't quite pass the eye test so to speak, but what's so different about drafting Porter and sliding Webster down to the 2?

Why is drafting a SF and then converting Webster to a SG acceptable, but drafting a SG and keeping Webster at Sf not okay?

As a Bennett supporter, I'm a bit off the beaten path on this, but after reading up on Oladipo last week, I moved him up from 4th/5th on my board to 2nd temporarily ahead of Bennett. Im wishy washy on it. For now:

1. Noel
2. Oladipo
3. Bennett
4. McLemore
5. Len
6. Porter

[DANNYLANDOVER]

If Bennett is Carmelo 2.0...well, I was about to say "no thanks" but...

I think Carmelo is one of the more overrated players in the league. Terrific score whose efficiency (and impact) would be better if he used his physical tools to get good shots instead of taking so many difficult shots. And he's not a willing passer, which mutes a major benefit of having a big-time scorer in the lineup (drawing defensive attention and passing to teammates for open shots).

But, Carmelo's reputation -- and salary -- would suggest he's one of the elite players in the game, and he's just not. Unless we're focusing on stuff like points per game and possession usage. Then, yeah. His efficiency is impressive considering his shot selection. I think I could build a good team around him, but I think I could build better teams around other players.

I agree word for word, Nivek, except that I believe he is the most -- not "one of the more" -- overrated player(s) in the league.

That's not to say he is a *bad* player -- overall, he's above average. That's it.

average, huh? can you name three better players at his position?

[The Consiglieri]

Aside from the Vesely pick (where they invited some dignitaries from Vesely's country to attend the draft - giving it away days before the draft), we've commented year after year that EG is generally very good at keeping any news from getting out. Most of what comes out is from agents. Agents lie.

??

We knew they wanted to trade the pick after the lottery in '09 and they did.

We've known they liked Wall and Seraphin in '10, and they drafted both.

In '11 We knew they loved Vesely in '10 (so much so that supposedly he was the target with their pick before Vesely kept himself out of the draft and we moved to #1, and would take him in '11, and there were rumors we liked Singleton.

In '12 all the smoke was about Beal or MKG, and we tok Beal with MKG off the board.

If anything, it's seems as if we leak like a sieve, draft after draft, indeed you'd have to go back all the way to '08 to find a year they somewhat surprised anyone with their pick.

I think you've done a fine job of believing what you want to believe - especially when you bring up Wall. Of course he was the pick - no matter who got that pick, Wall was going to be the 1st pick. And Seraphin as well as Booker - in that draft were not known to be the Wiz picks before the draft.

I didn't hear squat about Booker, that was very well hidden, I did hear about Seraphin, and you're right Wall was obvious. '09, '11, and '12 were telegraphed, you picked out the only example that wasn't, and fair play for that, but what about the others?

If you think we do a good job of keeping our interests in house I don't know what to say about that. I haven't really seen any example of that happening in five years, and while Booker is a nice piece of evidence on your side, I've got the trade in '09, the rest of '10, '11, and '12. There is no believing what I want to believe, hell they even leaked gungate against their own freaking interests, and I didn't bring that up in my original post.

[verbal8]

That's not to say he is a *bad* player -- overall, he's above average. That's it.

average, huh? can you name three better players at his position?

LeBron
Durant
Paul George

[theboomking]

I think this is a quality draft, much like the 2009 draft.

so you see talent equivalent to Blake Griffin, Harden, Evans, Rubio and Curry in the first 7 picks? Or are you saying the occaisional Jrue Holiday level guy will be there later on?

Both. Oladipo is going to be a stud. Porter will be better than projected. Noel if healthy will become Alonzo Mourning meets KG. Burke will be good offensively but at least a couple other PGs will become stars. (Wolters is so underrated!) There will be at least a couple exceptional seven footers. WizD could be absolutely right about his boy. Steven Adams--ferocious defender and rebounder. Olynyk could be a cross between Scola and Brad Miller. On offense a higher-usage Nene. Franklin has monstrous athleticism. With a shot he'd be up there as a game changer. Cody will be by far the best Zeller.

I also love the low end of this draft, as with 2009.

Dudes like Iverson, Ennis, Roberson, Kemp, Stephens, Carmichael, Kelly. Snaer, Paul, McCallum, Pressey, Reddic, Wyatt, and MARSHALL can all run with NBA teams and contribute.

If it turns out Adams, Len, Bennett et al reach potential this will go down as a tremendous draft.

I love you CCJ, partly because you are such an optimist while simultaneously being such a contrarian. I don't think there is any way that many players will wind up being good, but I guess we will see.

[tontoz]

Melo is basically a bigger version of Iverson, a tireless chucker with little interest in defense. Melo seems even less interested in passing than Iverson was.

This year Melo took more 3s and less long 2s which helped his efficiency, but he was still a chucker.

[The Consiglieri]

gotta love truthaboutit, another nice article, this one on Bennett, plus side, and negative side, w/a great interview with a UNLV beat writer.

link:

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/why ... more-29763

"....People knock Bennett’s defense and conditioning. Is this overblown? Fixable?


It’s not overblown. He struggles heavily on defense. Like I said before when he doesn’t use that strength to his advantage, he also doesn’t use it on defense. When he was at Findlay Prep, he was considered this player with a great motor on both ends of the floor. You hardly saw that at stints last year. He didn’t deliver a hard foul until the game against Cal in the NCAA Tournament. It’s a problem that can be fixed once he realizes his strengths..."

[nate33]

I don't recall any leaks on Seraphin before the pick was made. Booker was definitely a surprise. McGee was a surprise too. I agree with Ruzious that EG can't really be accused of telegraphing all his picks. He telegraphed Vesely. I don't know if Beal was so much telegraphed or if was simply that he was the obvious choice. Skillwise and fitwise, it came down to either Beal or Barnes, and everybody ranked Beal higher.

[The Consiglieri]

I don't recall any leaks on Seraphin before the pick was made. Booker was definitely a surprise. McGee was a surprise too. I agree with Ruzious that EG can't really be accused of telegraphing all his picks. He telegraphed Vesely. I don't know if Beal was so much telegraphed or if was simply that he was the obvious choice. Skillwise and fitwise, it came down to either Beal or Barnes, and everybody ranked Beal higher.

It's possible I could be mixing up who we wanted with who was available at the slot, I just remember Seraphin not being a surprise at all, and it being "out there," perhaps that's a bit nebulous to suggest telegraphing, but it certainly seemed out there. Perhaps I am stretching it though

[rockymac52]

I don't recall any leaks on Seraphin before the pick was made. Booker was definitely a surprise. McGee was a surprise too. I agree with Ruzious that EG can't really be accused of telegraphing all his picks. He telegraphed Vesely. I don't know if Beal was so much telegraphed or if was simply that he was the obvious choice. Skillwise and fitwise, it came down to either Beal or Barnes, and everybody ranked Beal higher.

It's possible I could be mixing up who we wanted with who was available at the slot, I just remember Seraphin not being a surprise at all, and it being "out there," perhaps that's a bit nebulous to suggest telegraphing, but it certainly seemed out there. Perhaps I am stretching it though

I also recall Seraphin being discussed frequently before the pick was made. Booker was definitely a surprise though. I want to say that Chad Ford's mock drafts had us taking Seraphin in most of his versions that year. It was a pretty logical selection, honestly.

[rockymac52]

Nevermind, I looked it up. He had Seraphin going 23rd to Minnesota in pretty much every version of the mock draft. Although to be fair, that pick ended up being ours, where we took Booker. Also, we didn't acquire the 17th pick until the day or two before the draft, so there wasn't much of an opportunity for him to get a scoop on our preferences there. I stand corrected.

[stevemcqueen1]

That's not to say he is a *bad* player -- overall, he's above average. That's it.

average, huh? can you name three better players at his position?

LeBron
Durant
Paul George

George is definitely not better than Melo.

LeBron and Durant are the only SFs better than Melo. No great shame in that. Those two are better than everyone else in the league.

[hands11]

Noel is a nice fit for us because our offense is going to be very guard dominant down the line with Wall and Beal being our two best players. So it makes sense for the front court player you pair with them to be someone who doesn't have to get the ball a ton to make a big impact.

He brings something we certainly don't have too--elite rim protection.

Noel will fit in best on a team who has another big men who is strong enough to defend burly post players but skilled enough offensively to handle both post-up and pick-and-pop duties on offense. As luck would have it, the Wizards have two guys that fit that description perfectly: Nene and Seraphin. (Obviously, Seraphin would have to improve, but that's the type of player he projects to be if things go well.)

Over the short, intermediate, and long term, Noel is perfect. He can spend the entire first season rehabbing and getting stronger while the Wizards use most of their spare big man minutes to develop Seraphin. Next year, Okafor is let go and Noel moves into the 3rd big role behind Nene and Seraphin. Hopefully by mid year, he can start challenging one of those guys for starter's minutes. By Year 3, hopefully Noel and Seraphin are starting with Nene playing a limited role off the bench. (Or maybe, by then, we've used cap room to land a better starter than Seraphin.)

So we would use our top 3 pick on a player that isn't healthy enough or good enough to start until year 3 and who isn't strong enough to play center ?

Sounds like McGee again.

And he had a growth plate issue ?