The Lebron Thread (Pt. 3)

[kabstah]

Watching the game with your eyes isn't good enough, this is why we have dedicated scorekeepers.

Fact of the matter is, Miami is performing better than expected offensively. By my calculations, they're posting a 110.9 ORTG in the Finals against an opponent who gave up just 101.6 ORTG in the regular season. If Lebron is being exposed as you say, then who do you think is carrying the Miami offense?

[Jordan23Forever]

I honestly can't fathom how anyone can have watched this series and thinks that Lebron has had even a "good" series. It has been a disgrace. He has been invisible for 80% of the series and looks lost most of the time. The Spurs aren't even loading up on him defensively.

[colts18]

I honestly can't fathom how anyone can have watched this series and thinks that Lebron has had even a "good" series. It has been a disgrace. He has been invisible for 80% of the series and looks lost most of the time. The Spurs aren't even loading up on him defensively.

23-11-7 with great defense is a disgrace

[Ginobili]

Hes playing better than Jordan in 96.

[Showtime:Part2]

the lebron hate needs to stop. the only thing he's not doing well is shooting efficiently. other than that he's been phenomenal.

[LikeABosh]

Depends on the shooting percentage and also how the player played. If they were playing timid and shook (as Lebron did much of last night and much of the series) and could/should have realistically had a much better performance based on the way he was being played, then no, it's not effective. If they were running hard doubles at him to get the ball out of his hands, denying him the ball, taking intentional fouls to deny scoring opportunities, and he's like 4-7 FG for those 13 points, then yes, 13/5/5 can be an effective half for a player of his caliber.

He had something like 9/5/5 at the half so the difference between lebron being effective and not effective is him making or missing two jumpers? I don't buy it. I also don't buy the conjecture about him being "shook". What the hell does that even mean? He was missing makeable shots, but that doesn't conclude he's afraid of the moment. This isn't like 2011 where he refused to shoot...he's been doing what we all wanted him to do back in 2011 and that's take more shots. He averaged 15 FGA then and now he's averaging 21 FGA.

The whole mental aspect of the game just leads to lazy analysis:
Passes up a shot: Afraid of the moment, choker, he needs to take that shot
Takes the shot but misses: Choker, he's playing scared
Makes the shot: Wow, he's really matured as a player and he's no longer afraid of the moment

[LikeABosh]

Hes playing better than Jordan in 96.

Debatable. Both Lebron and Jordan had some awful 3 game stretches by their standards.

Jordan's last 3 games: 23.7 pts/ 5.3 rebs / 3.3 ast / 3.7 TO's / 37 FG% / 20 FGA / 1-2 record
Lebron's first 3 games: 16.5 pts /12.3 rebs / 7.3 ast /2.0 TO's / 39 FG% / 18 FGA / 1-2 record

[Rerisen]

Even last night when he finally scored a basket or two on a post-up in the 4th, it was because of Miami's epic spacing.

Miami has an issue. LeBron is better without Wade. They were rolling without him, and kind of felt like Spo just had to put D-Wade back in around 4m because of who he is, but seemed risky.

That is likely why predictions of Miami's dominance never came to pass in a way some predicted, and why Cleveland's record and offense were even competitive with the Heat, because in reality Cleveland was a team built of ideal complimentary pieces for him.

Miami can mimic that with bench players, but requires taking Wade out.

LeBron needs to dominate the offense entirely to get the most of him. When you move him off ball, suddenly he doesn't work so well with other talented offensive players that need the ball, unless he is in transition.

It would be worrying as a Heat fan to me that LeBron 'getting aggressive' usually means solely barreling to the rim, hoping people either clear out for him, or foul him. Especially vs defenses like the Spurs that pack it in.

What happened to his post game from last year, its been in hiding. He needs to diversify.

[Jordan23Forever]

This dude was 1-9 from the field and had 9 points from the 4:45 mark of the first quarter through the end of the 3rd quarter (that's 31+ minutes of game time, in case you're wondering) and people say that he doesn't disappear and/or be rendered ineffective for long stretches? People have the nerve to act like this series has been a good one?

[Showtime:Part2]

i dont see why he needs to diversify when he's that good at barreling to the rim. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. he's shown 0 decline in athletic ability so i don't see any reason to worry either.

[Rerisen]

i dont see why he needs to diversify when he's that good at barreling to the rim.

Because there comes a point where so many bodies in the paint prevent that from being effective no matter how good a player is. You are satisfied with his efficiency this series?

[Jordan23Forever]

i dont see why he needs to diversify when he's that good at barreling to the rim. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. he's shown 0 decline in athletic ability so i don't see any reason to worry either.

Except he hasn't been that good and has been rendered ineffective and has looked lost for long stretches of this series. I would estimate that he has been basically invisible for upwards of 70% of this entire series. His bursts are production come just like that: in bursts. And usually when the team is either up or after his team has made a run and he gets some of his mojo back. He hasn't been the one leading the charge the vast majority of the time.

[Showtime:Part2]

i dont see why he needs to diversify when he's that good at barreling to the rim.

Because there comes a point where so many bodies in the paint prevent that from being effective no matter how good a player is. You are satisfied with his efficiency this series?

no, i cited his efficiency as his only real flaw this series (he also disappears for stretches but what's the difference if he comes in hot to save the day). that being said, he continued to barrel to the rim in the 4th and it worked. it just doesn't work with wade on the floor and the problem is the heat have to give wade big mins bc of who he is. it's game 7 and the heat are at home looking like they're going to repeat so what's the difference?

[colts18]

This dude was 1-9 from the field and had 9 points from the 4:45 mark of the first quarter through the end of the 3rd quarter (that's 31+ minutes of game time, in case you're wondering) and people say that he doesn't disappear and/or be rendered ineffective for long stretches? People have the nerve to act like this series has been a good one?

Did you know that J23F disappeared and was rendered ineffective from this thread for a long stretch of 2 months before finally showing up at the end just like LeBron. You are like LeBron, disappear like a rat, then appear when the moment is convenient for you.

[Showtime:Part2]

i dont see why he needs to diversify when he's that good at barreling to the rim. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. he's shown 0 decline in athletic ability so i don't see any reason to worry either.

Except he hasn't been that good and has been rendered ineffective and has looked lost for long stretches of this series. I would estimate that he has been basically invisible for upwards of 70% of this entire series. His bursts are production come just like that: in bursts. And usually when the team is either up or after his team has made a run and he gets some of his mojo back. He hasn't been the one leading the charge the vast majority of the time.

see my response to rerisen

[Jordan23Forever]

Did you know that J23F disappeared and was rendered ineffective from this thread for a long stretch of 2 months before finally showing up at the end just like LeBron. You are like LeBron, disappear like a rat, then appear when the moment is convenient for you.

Way to address the argument. Hope you get cited for this.

[Rerisen]

no, i cited his efficiency as his only real flaw this series (he also disappears for stretches but what's the difference if he comes in hot to save the day). that being said, he continued to barrel to the rim in the 4th and it worked.

Both teams screwed up a lot is the story of that game. Lebron with the TO's, missed bunnies, and sort of defeated settling for early Js that he missed. Spurs just screwed up a few more times. If they hit one of two missed late free throws, or Duncan is in to get a board to prevent that 2nd LeBron three attempt, or the Ray Allen one, LeBron is without doubt now facing a media firestorm of critical evaluation over this series.

On the whole he's been more negative than positive vs his own standards. He now has one more game to shore it up. Most will simply rate him based on the Heat winning or losing, but the sharper evaluators will look beyond just that.

[Showtime:Part2]

no, i cited his efficiency as his only real flaw this series (he also disappears for stretches but what's the difference if he comes in hot to save the day). that being said, he continued to barrel to the rim in the 4th and it worked.

Both teams screwed up a lot is the story of that game. Spurs just screwed up a few more times. If they hit one of two missed late free throws, or Duncan is in to get a board to prevent that 2nd LeBron three attempt, or the Ray Allen one, LeBron is without doubt now facing a media firestorm of critical evaluation over this series.

On the whole he's been more negative than positive vs his own standards. He now has one more game to shore it up. Most will simply rate him based on the Heat winning or losing, but the sharper evaluators will look beyond just that.

ok, but has he not come through when needed most? has he not been great on the boards and distributing the rock and on defense? scoring 50% fg isn't the end all be all requirement for a player to have a great series. the only claim you could potentially make against him is that he shouldn't be lauded for winning because he handpicked his teammates and they're favored to win pretty easily anyway because of how stacked they are. he put himself in a situation with limited upside and much more downside when it comes to comparing himself vs other greats and great performances.

[SweetTouch]

the lebron hate needs to stop. the only thing he's not doing well is shooting efficiently. other than that he's been phenomenal.

wow did I really just read what i think I just read

mind = blown

[Showtime:Part2]

the lebron hate needs to stop. the only thing he's not doing well is shooting efficiently. other than that he's been phenomenal.

wow did I really just read what i think I just read

mind = blown

i don't follow.