Who would you want to win, Spurs or Heat?

[Reservoirdawgs]

Not really sure how any Laker fan could want Lebron and the cHeat to win another ring...hell, any NBA fan besides the bandwagon Miami fans (which I see so many of in South Florida...people couldn't tell you the name of their starting pg, yet cheer and fight you to the death for them).

No legend respects what they did...Shaq is one of them (and he used to play there!) I'm sick and tired of people comparing Lebron to Kobe, and never ever mentioning mental toughness. Only his flash, and his athletic ability. Lebron doesn't have "IT" like MJ and Kobe have "it"....I want Lebron, the mental midget to fail at his "not 1, not 2, not 3.. etc" promise.

Lebron has a much higher career PER and TS% than Kobe in the postseason. Clearly, Lebron has the "it" factor and has a higher mental toughness than Kobe.

[Slava]

If you start categorizing the intangibles with TS% & PER, I'm pretty sure Chris Webber has more IT than Horry and Malone is a better clutch performer than Nowitzki but we know how things ended there.

[Reservoirdawgs]

If you start categorizing the intangibles with TS% & PER, I'm pretty sure Chris Webber has more IT than Horry and Malone is a better clutch performer than Nowitzki but we know how things ended there.

No, you're right...it's much better to determine intangibles simply based off of faulty selective memory, player bias, and pre-established storylines than actual numbers. For instance, Nowitzki was villified after the 2007 First Round disaster as being the most unclutch player ever...now the storyline has changed since he has a ring. Kobe went 6-24 in Game 7 of 2010...did he just turn off his "it" factor so his elite big men tandem could bail him out? Did he turn off his "it" factor in 2004? Or 2008? Robert Horry has a pretty bad Finals but then hits a lucky three and suddenly he has this "it" factor, despite the rest of the game being poor?

That's my point...the issue of an "it" factor is silly and is instead something that is created by people who watch the game that is not really born of anything that can be measured but rather by our own biased viewpoints and selective memory. The notion that Kobe somehow has some higher "it" factor despite performing worse in the postseason than Lebron (who, due to our selective bias and our own storylines is somehow seen as the underachieving postseason player) is pretty mindboggling.

[Slava]

If you start categorizing the intangibles with TS% & PER, I'm pretty sure Chris Webber has more IT than Horry and Malone is a better clutch performer than Nowitzki but we know how things ended there.

No, you're right...it's much better to determine intangibles simply based off of faulty selective memory, player bias, and pre-established storylines than actual numbers. For instance, Nowitzki was villified after the 2007 First Round disaster as being the most unclutch player ever...now the storyline has changed since he has a ring. Kobe went 6-24 in Game 7 of 2010...did he just turn off his "it" factor so his elite big men tandem could bail him out? Did he turn off his "it" factor in 2004? Or 2008? Robert Horry has a pretty bad Finals but then hits a lucky three and suddenly he has this "it" factor, despite the rest of the game being poor?

That's my point...the issue of an "it" factor is silly and is instead something that is created by people who watch the game that is not really born of anything that can be measured but rather by our own biased viewpoints and selective memory. The notion that Kobe somehow has some higher "it" factor despite performing worse in the postseason than Lebron (who, due to our selective bias and our own storylines is somehow seen as the underachieving postseason player) is pretty mindboggling.

There is a 1,000,001 assumptions in this post by what I said and did not say. First of all its perfectly natural that the perception of Dirk changed because *voila* he actually improved since 2006 and had a legendary playoff run.

The book on Kobe has its share of failures (2004, 2010) and it also has its share of success (2000 Finals vs Indy, 2001 vs San Antonio, 2009 etc) and people can have bad shooting nights, but what separates Lebron's failings from these is that he shrinks away from aggressiveness and responsibility even before something actually does go wrong.

I don't get your issue with bias and people's perceptions, this is a Lakers board for what its worth and a share of bias is not entirely inconceivable.

Lastly I'm not even saying Lebron doesn't have a good playoff resume, but I can understand if someone thinks he has had a dropoff in his regular season performances vs his playoff resume, which is off the course when you compare to all time greats like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe or even Wade when he was in his prime.

[spree8]

Not really sure how any Laker fan could want Lebron and the cHeat to win another ring...hell, any NBA fan besides the bandwagon Miami fans (which I see so many of in South Florida...people couldn't tell you the name of their starting pg, yet cheer and fight you to the death for them).

No legend respects what they did...Shaq is one of them (and he used to play there!) I'm sick and tired of people comparing Lebron to Kobe, and never ever mentioning mental toughness. Only his flash, and his athletic ability. Lebron doesn't have "IT" like MJ and Kobe have "it"....I want Lebron, the mental midget to fail at his "not 1, not 2, not 3.. etc" promise.

Lebron has a much higher career PER and TS% than Kobe in the postseason. Clearly, Lebron has the "it" factor and has a higher mental toughness than Kobe.

What an asinine thing to say.

[spree8]

If you start categorizing the intangibles with TS% & PER, I'm pretty sure Chris Webber has more IT than Horry and Malone is a better clutch performer than Nowitzki but we know how things ended there.

No, you're right...it's much better to determine intangibles simply based off of faulty selective memory, player bias, and pre-established storylines than actual numbers. For instance, Nowitzki was villified after the 2007 First Round disaster as being the most unclutch player ever...now the storyline has changed since he has a ring. Kobe went 6-24 in Game 7 of 2010...did he just turn off his "it" factor so his elite big men tandem could bail him out? Did he turn off his "it" factor in 2004? Or 2008? Robert Horry has a pretty bad Finals but then hits a lucky three and suddenly he has this "it" factor, despite the rest of the game being poor?

That's my point...the issue of an "it" factor is silly and is instead something that is created by people who watch the game that is not really born of anything that can be measured but rather by our own biased viewpoints and selective memory. The notion that Kobe somehow has some higher "it" factor despite performing worse in the postseason than Lebron (who, due to our selective bias and our own storylines is somehow seen as the underachieving postseason player) is pretty mindboggling.

This is ridiculous! The same flaws are in your argument. You are bringing up Lebron's post season #'s, but what about his 4th quarter #'s??? Horrible. The dude misses timely shots, and a lot of the times, simply doesn't take them when he should. Where's the stat for that? This is not something people have a selective memory with...this is something talked about by analysts, writers, players, legends, and fans time and time again. Your stats are convenient for your argument right now, but they do not tell the whole story...that's a common saying for goodness sake. Everyone knows stats don't tell it all. As for the bias and memory...man, go read a magazine, or a newspaper article, or watch shows, and listen to the radio....it's all recorded to refresh peoples memory of the truth. Stats aren't the only thing recorded. People can go back and look through all of these things to know what wasn't showing up in the stats, and what Lebron did or did not do in clutch games, and what people knock him for.

The "it" that I am speaking of is the mental edge...not talent. Not many players had "it"...MJ, and Kobe are prime examples. Lebron is like Magic with his gifts and skill set, but doesn't have that mental toughness...physical toughness yes, but not mental. This is not debatable.

Kobe never lost his "it" factor in 2004, or 2008...there were other reasons you're clearly not bringing up for your own benefit. Such as a new addition in Gasol mid-season, and Bynum's injuries. Just because you have "it" doesn't mean you can win all alone.

[Reservoirdawgs]

There is a 1,000,001 assumptions in this post by what I said and did not say. First of all its perfectly natural that the perception of Dirk changed because *voila* he actually improved since 2006 and had a legendary playoff run.

The book on Kobe has its share of failures (2004, 2010) and it also has its share of success (2000 Finals vs Indy, 2001 vs San Antonio, 2009 etc) and people can have bad shooting nights, but what separates Lebron's failings from these is that he shrinks away from aggressiveness and responsibility even before something actually does go wrong.

I don't get your issue with bias and people's perceptions, this is a Lakers board for what its worth and a share of bias is not entirely inconceivable.

Lastly I'm not even saying Lebron doesn't have a good playoff resume, but I can understand if someone thinks he has had a dropoff in his regular season performances vs his playoff resume, which is off the course when you compare to all time greats like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe or even Wade when he was in his prime.

First off, I seem to have incredible luck when it comes to taking time to type up a response, and when I click "Post Reply" I get an error message saying that RealGM is performing maintenance on their servers and then lose everything I had typed. That has happened to me twice in the past 24 hours, so I just drafted my response in Gmail, saved it as a draft, and just copy/pasted without reading if anything else has been said in this thread...I'll get to thos elater.

After re-reading your initial post I do not see much of an assumption...you very clearly seem to believe that there is an "it" factor that select people have while others do not, but if that was not your intent than I apologize. I mostly want to address your last paragraph though, as I think it really goes into what I was talking about:

Lebron's career PER is 27.6 in the regular season. His career PER in the postseason is 27.2, so I guess if a drop of .4 when compared to the regular season puts him off course of Michael Jordan, who was able to increase his PER in the postseason then there's that. Shaq, on the other hand, saw his career regular season PER of 26.4 decrease to 26.1 for the postseason. And Kobe? Kobe's career PER of 23.4 decreases to 22.4 in the postseason. So despite Kobe performing worse in the postseason when compared to the regular season, at a much higher decrease than Lebron, with a difference of 5 between his and Lebron's career postseason PER...why is Kobe the one who has the "it" factor (or, as you put it, why is Lebron the one who is off course from all-time greats like Kobe, considering Kobe performs worse in the postseason than Lebron)? That's been my question all along. I don't subscribe to one person being inherently more clutch than someone else or having an "it" factor. People can make clutch shots but a person isn't inherently clutch - given the small sample size of the playoffs, we put these arbitrary labels on people due to our own internal bias, selective memory, and whatever storylines have been created for said player. However, they rarely ever turn out true. The more games a person plays in the postseason, the more his numbers will go closer to his career numbers (since it is the postseason where defenses gear up, it's to be expected that postseason numbers may be down a little bit when compared to regular season numbers).

BTW, if we want to have even more fun, Lebron's career TS% is .575 while his career postseason TS% is .566. Kobe's career TS% is .555 while his career postseason TS% is ..541. Lebron's career TRB% is 10.8 while his career postseason TRB% is 12.1. Kobe's career TRB% is 8.2 while his career postseason TRB% is 7.4. Lebron's career AST% is 34.4 while his career postseason AST% is 32.4. Kobe's career AST% is 24.2 while his career postseason AST% is 23.3. As we can see here, Lebron's percentages go down in the postseason but not very dramatically (save for his TRB% which rises in the postseason) while Kobe's percentages go down across the board in the postseason, although not too dramatically (save for his TS% which is a surprisingly sharp drop).

So, if we are to subscribe to an "it" factor theory (which is why I responded initially...the poster claimed that that is what separates Kobe from Lebron...an arbitrary thing called the "it" factor) then I guess Kobe doesn't have it while Lebron does? He does worse in the regular season than Lebron and worse in the postseason in Lebron, with his advanced stats taking a hit when compared to his regular season numbers.

[Slava]

Lebron's career PER is 27.6 in the regular season. His career PER in the postseason is 27.2, so I guess if a drop of .4 when compared to the regular season puts him off course of Michael Jordan, who was able to increase his PER in the postseason then there's that. Shaq, on the other hand, saw his career regular season PER of 26.4 decrease to 26.1 for the postseason. And Kobe? Kobe's career PER of 23.4 decreases to 22.4 in the postseason. So despite Kobe performing worse in the postseason when compared to the regular season, at a much higher decrease than Lebron, with a difference of 5 between his and Lebron's career postseason PER...why is Kobe the one who has the "it" factor (or, as you put it, why is Lebron the one who is off course from all-time greats like Kobe, considering Kobe performs worse in the postseason than Lebron)? That's been my question all along. I don't subscribe to one person being inherently more clutch than someone else or having an "it" factor. People can make clutch shots but a person isn't inherently clutch - given the small sample size of the playoffs, we put these arbitrary labels on people due to our own internal bias, selective memory, and whatever storylines have been created for said player. However, they rarely ever turn out true. The more games a person plays in the postseason, the more his numbers will go closer to his career numbers (since it is the postseason where defenses gear up, it's to be expected that postseason numbers may be down a little bit when compared to regular season numbers).

BTW, if we want to have even more fun, Lebron's career TS% is .575 while his career postseason TS% is .566. Kobe's career TS% is .555 while his career postseason TS% is ..541. Lebron's career TRB% is 10.8 while his career postseason TRB% is 12.1. Kobe's career TRB% is 8.2 while his career postseason TRB% is 7.4. Lebron's career AST% is 34.4 while his career postseason AST% is 32.4. Kobe's career AST% is 24.2 while his career postseason AST% is 23.3. As we can see here, Lebron's percentages go down in the postseason but not very dramatically (save for his TRB% which rises in the postseason) while Kobe's percentages go down across the board in the postseason, although not too dramatically (save for his TS% which is a surprisingly sharp drop).

I don't just have to use PER & TS% as the determining factor for how a player is viewed for his career. No one ever got a championship for a high PER or even for that matter a PER award like a scoring or assist award. If that was the criteria, Wilt should be viewed as Russell and Russell as Wilt.

Thanks for taking the time to type that but I have an internet connection and a laptop too and I can access basketball reference just as easily as you do.

Lebron:

Season Reg Playoff
2006 28.1 23.2
2007 24.5 23.9
2008 29.1 24.3
2009 31.7 37.4
2010 31.1 28.6
2011 27.3 23.7
2012 30.7 30.3
2013 31.6 27.5

So Lebron has put up a better playoff PER for a grand total of one season

Shaq:

Season PO Reg
1993-94 20.1 28.5
1994-95 26.1 28.6
1995-96 27.4 26.4
1996-97 29 27.1
1997-98 31 28.8
1998-99 28.8 30.6
1999-00 30.5 30.6
2000-01 28.7 30.2
2001-02 28.3 29.7
2002-03 30.6 29.5
2003-04 24.8 24.4
2004-05 18.1 27
2005-06 19.9 24.4
2006-07 19.9 21.7

Shaq in his period of relevance had 5 seasons where his PER was higher in the playoffs.

[LAKESHOW]

I got the heat

[Reservoirdawgs]

I don't just have to use PER & TS% as the determining factor for how a player is viewed for his career. No one ever got a championship for a high PER or even for that matter a PER award like a scoring or assist award. If that was the criteria, Wilt should be viewed as Russell and Russell as Wilt.

Thanks for taking the time to type that but I have an internet connection and a laptop too and I can access basketball reference just as easily as you do.

Lebron:

Season Reg Playoff
2006 28.1 23.2
2007 24.5 23.9
2008 29.1 24.3
2009 31.7 37.4
2010 31.1 28.6
2011 27.3 23.7
2012 30.7 30.3
2013 31.6 27.5

So Lebron has put up a better playoff PER for a grand total of one season

Shaq:

Season PO Reg
1993-94 20.1 28.5
1994-95 26.1 28.6
1995-96 27.4 26.4
1996-97 29 27.1
1997-98 31 28.8
1998-99 28.8 30.6
1999-00 30.5 30.6
2000-01 28.7 30.2
2001-02 28.3 29.7
2002-03 30.6 29.5
2003-04 24.8 24.4
2004-05 18.1 27
2005-06 19.9 24.4
2006-07 19.9 21.7

Shaq in his period of relevance had 5 seasons where his PER was higher in the playoffs.

Clearly, you don't have to use TS% and PER as THE determining factor...they are a fairly big part of the career as a whole, but there are many other useful stats/awards (ORB/DRB/eFG/MVPs/First Second Third Teams/FMVPs/Championships, just to name a few) but my whole point is directed at the phrase that someone has the "it" factor. I must not understand what an "it" factor is and why Kobe somehow has an "it" factor over someone who is statistically superior in pretty much every way, both in the regular season and the postseason (unless of course its due to selective memory and bias, which I am near 100% sure that is what it is).

I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing here, unless it's that there is an "it" factor and some people have it and others don't. Your point with Shaq...did he have this "it" factor for three straight years, lose it for four years, get it back for two years, and then lose it again?

[spree8]

There is a 1,000,001 assumptions in this post by what I said and did not say. First of all its perfectly natural that the perception of Dirk changed because *voila* he actually improved since 2006 and had a legendary playoff run.

The book on Kobe has its share of failures (2004, 2010) and it also has its share of success (2000 Finals vs Indy, 2001 vs San Antonio, 2009 etc) and people can have bad shooting nights, but what separates Lebron's failings from these is that he shrinks away from aggressiveness and responsibility even before something actually does go wrong.

I don't get your issue with bias and people's perceptions, this is a Lakers board for what its worth and a share of bias is not entirely inconceivable.

Lastly I'm not even saying Lebron doesn't have a good playoff resume, but I can understand if someone thinks he has had a dropoff in his regular season performances vs his playoff resume, which is off the course when you compare to all time greats like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe or even Wade when he was in his prime.

First off, I seem to have incredible luck when it comes to taking time to type up a response, and when I click "Post Reply" I get an error message saying that RealGM is performing maintenance on their servers and then lose everything I had typed. That has happened to me twice in the past 24 hours, so I just drafted my response in Gmail, saved it as a draft, and just copy/pasted without reading if anything else has been said in this thread...I'll get to thos elater.

After re-reading your initial post I do not see much of an assumption...you very clearly seem to believe that there is an "it" factor that select people have while others do not, but if that was not your intent than I apologize. I mostly want to address your last paragraph though, as I think it really goes into what I was talking about:

Lebron's career PER is 27.6 in the regular season. His career PER in the postseason is 27.2, so I guess if a drop of .4 when compared to the regular season puts him off course of Michael Jordan, who was able to increase his PER in the postseason then there's that. Shaq, on the other hand, saw his career regular season PER of 26.4 decrease to 26.1 for the postseason. And Kobe? Kobe's career PER of 23.4 decreases to 22.4 in the postseason. So despite Kobe performing worse in the postseason when compared to the regular season, at a much higher decrease than Lebron, with a difference of 5 between his and Lebron's career postseason PER...why is Kobe the one who has the "it" factor (or, as you put it, why is Lebron the one who is off course from all-time greats like Kobe, considering Kobe performs worse in the postseason than Lebron)? That's been my question all along. I don't subscribe to one person being inherently more clutch than someone else or having an "it" factor. People can make clutch shots but a person isn't inherently clutch - given the small sample size of the playoffs, we put these arbitrary labels on people due to our own internal bias, selective memory, and whatever storylines have been created for said player. However, they rarely ever turn out true. The more games a person plays in the postseason, the more his numbers will go closer to his career numbers (since it is the postseason where defenses gear up, it's to be expected that postseason numbers may be down a little bit when compared to regular season numbers).

BTW, if we want to have even more fun, Lebron's career TS% is .575 while his career postseason TS% is .566. Kobe's career TS% is .555 while his career postseason TS% is ..541. Lebron's career TRB% is 10.8 while his career postseason TRB% is 12.1. Kobe's career TRB% is 8.2 while his career postseason TRB% is 7.4. Lebron's career AST% is 34.4 while his career postseason AST% is 32.4. Kobe's career AST% is 24.2 while his career postseason AST% is 23.3. As we can see here, Lebron's percentages go down in the postseason but not very dramatically (save for his TRB% which rises in the postseason) while Kobe's percentages go down across the board in the postseason, although not too dramatically (save for his TS% which is a surprisingly sharp drop).

So, if we are to subscribe to an "it" factor theory (which is why I responded initially...the poster claimed that that is what separates Kobe from Lebron...an arbitrary thing called the "it" factor) then I guess Kobe doesn't have it while Lebron does? He does worse in the regular season than Lebron and worse in the postseason in Lebron, with his advanced stats taking a hit when compared to his regular season numbers.

Dude, enough with the numbers...you sound like a robot trying to use math to understand what human beings are. For the last time...the "it" factor can not be measured by any stat. You can just see it. The same way Michael sees it in Kobe, and the reason why he said Bryant is better than Lebron. I don't remember him using these stats of yours either.

Lebron has great stats, great defense, great physical skill, great basketball skill, passing ability, but he's notoriously M.I.A in the 4th quarter of big games...the opposite of MJ and Kobe who live for that moment. MJ, and Kobe may have had poor performances in 4th quarters like you've mentioned, but they've had great ones too, and they ALWAYS go for it...that killer instinct...Lebron just doesn't. He's afraid... end of story. Sorry, but its no secret. Where have you been?

[Reservoirdawgs]

This is ridiculous! The same flaws are in your argument. You are bringing up Lebron's post season #'s, but what about his 4th quarter #'s??? Horrible. The dude misses timely shots, and a lot of the times, simply doesn't take them when he should. Where's the stat for that? This is not something people have a selective memory with...this is something talked about by analysts, writers, players, legends, and fans time and time again. Your stats are convenient for your argument right now, but they do not tell the whole story...that's a common saying for goodness sake. Everyone knows stats don't tell it all. As for the bias and memory...man, go read a magazine, or a newspaper article, or watch shows, and listen to the radio....it's all recorded to refresh peoples memory of the truth. Stats aren't the only thing recorded. People can go back and look through all of these things to know what wasn't showing up in the stats, and what Lebron did or did not do in clutch games, and what people knock him for.

The "it" that I am speaking of is the mental edge...not talent. Not many players had "it"...MJ, and Kobe are prime examples. Lebron is like Magic with his gifts and skill set, but doesn't have that mental toughness...physical toughness yes, but not mental. This is not debatable.

Kobe never lost his "it" factor in 2004, or 2008...there were other reasons you're clearly not bringing up for your own benefit. Such as a new addition in Gasol mid-season, and Bynum's injuries. Just because you have "it" doesn't mean you can win all alone.

For ease, each of my paragraphs response to one of your paragraphs.

I do not know how to look up 4th quarter numbers...if you can then please show them, but it ultimately doesn't mean that much to me...it's an arbitrary quarter that you pick, as if one quarter scoring is more important than another. My assumption is that the numbers are fairly similar to both...I can't count how many times I have seen Kobe, Wade, Durant, James, Garnett, Pierce, etc miss "timely" shots...however, due to our own selective memories, bias, and pre-established stories, we remember what we want to and forget others. You're willing to forget Kobe's multiple clunkers, but cling to some of Lebron's bad games without going back to all of the postseason heroics he's had. I could go on and on, but I'm just gonna link to this Bill Barnwell article from last year...it also addresses your point about what the radio, newspapers, online people say:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... -of-clutch

Well, now we have a definition of the "it" factor! So now that you have said that Kobe has a mental edge, how exactly is that? As we have already established, over a career, Lebron performs better in the postseason than Kobe, and Kobe's career numbers decrease from the regular season as they goes to the postseason, so does he lose his mental edge when the playoffs hit since his numbers go down?

And you are going to offer all of these excuses for Kobe's poor playoff performances on external factors but completely ignore Lebron's? Lebron having terrible teammates and dealing with player injuries himself for some reason isn't valid, but Kobe's are? C'mon dude...Kobe is a great player and his legacy is set in stone, but have some intellectual honesty.

[Reservoirdawgs]

Dude, enough with the numbers...you sound like a robot trying to use math to understand what human beings are. For the last time...the "it" factor can not be measured by any stat. You can just see it. The same way Michael sees it in Kobe, and the reason why he said Bryant is better than Lebron. I don't remember him using these stats of yours either.

Lebron has great stats, great defense, great physical skill, great basketball skill, passing ability, but he's notoriously M.I.A in the 4th quarter of big games...the opposite of MJ and Kobe who live for that moment. MJ, and Kobe may have had poor performances in 4th quarters like you've mentioned, but they've had great ones too, and they ALWAYS go for it...that killer instinct...Lebron just doesn't. He's afraid... end of story. Sorry, but its no secret. Where have you been?

So basically, you're saying "I have arbitrarily decided that Kobe has an it factor. I can't support it with any kind of stats or examples because it hurts my argument, but you're just gonna have to believe me because he has made game winners, and God knows that Lebron has NEVER done the same." Seriously, read the Barnwell article.

[spree8]

Dude, enough with the numbers...you sound like a robot trying to use math to understand what human beings are. For the last time...the "it" factor can not be measured by any stat. You can just see it. The same way Michael sees it in Kobe, and the reason why he said Bryant is better than Lebron. I don't remember him using these stats of yours either.

Lebron has great stats, great defense, great physical skill, great basketball skill, passing ability, but he's notoriously M.I.A in the 4th quarter of big games...the opposite of MJ and Kobe who live for that moment. MJ, and Kobe may have had poor performances in 4th quarters like you've mentioned, but they've had great ones too, and they ALWAYS go for it...that killer instinct...Lebron just doesn't. He's afraid... end of story. Sorry, but its no secret. Where have you been?

So basically, you're saying "I have arbitrarily decided that Kobe has an it factor. I can't support it with any kind of stats or examples because it hurts my argument, but you're just gonna have to believe me because he has made game winners, and God knows that Lebron has NEVER done the same." Seriously, read the Barnwell article.

Dude, I don't have a bias or selective memory...I know what I watch all the time. I know what legends like Mj, Magic, Barkely, Shaq, etc say. I watch analysts talk about this all the time. This is not something that happened so long ago where my memory is foggy...it's not rocket science man...Lebron chokes in the 4th 99% of the time...it's known. Not making it up. I haven't created my own reality if millions share the same feelings with me. It's a fact.

Bottom line...Lebron is like Kwame Brown in the 4th. He doesn't want the shot. Kobe does...regardless of him missing or not. This is what all your #'s and everything come down to. The willingness and the desire to take it. Lebron is scared, Kobe may be scared, but Kobe does it where Lebron prefers not to.

[Wavy Q]

LeBron = Kwame Brown

you heard it here first

[Soul Chef Fresh]

LeBron = Kwame Brown

you heard it here first

[spree8]

LeBron = Kwame Brown

you heard it here first

Is this kid slow? He's gotta be to take that out of what I said.

[Reservoirdawgs]

Dude, I don't have a bias or selective memory...I know what I watch all the time. I know what legends like Mj, Magic, Barkely, Shaq, etc say. I watch analysts talk about this all the time. This is not something that happened so long ago where my memory is foggy...it's not rocket science man...Lebron chokes in the 4th 99% of the time...it's known. Not making it up. I haven't created my own reality if millions share the same feelings with me. It's a fact.

Bottom line...Lebron is like Kwame Brown in the 4th. He doesn't want the shot. Kobe does...regardless of him missing or not. This is what all your #'s and everything come down to. The willingness and the desire to take it. Lebron is scared, Kobe may be scared, but Kobe does it where Lebron prefers not to.

So you didn't read the Barnwell piece, nor are you going to acknowledge any of Lebron's fourth quarter and postseason heroics because you want to remain ignorant in your selective memory and bias...that's fine, it's not my job to make you change your mind...just please tell me you at least see the irony in your statement "Dude, I don't have a bias or selective memory...I know what I watch all the time". We think what we want to and, as you have shown us, cling to the availability heuristic when it comes to ranking players since, we as fans, are/can be emotional people (Wikipedia on availability heuristic for you - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic).

And, just for you, it took a while playing around basketball reference but I finally found how to look at Fourth Quarter statistics. Here is the link:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... finder.cgi

You can play around with it however you like. Since you are so obsessed with Fourth Quarter shooting and taking the big shot, I set the limits for Regular Season and Post Season, Fourth Quarter and Overtime, 5 minutes or less with the scoring margin between 0-6, a minimum of 20 field goal attempts, and I sorted it by Effective Field Goal Percentage (eFG%, a statistic that adjusts percentages based on the fact that a three point shot is worth one point more than a two-point shot). Unsurprisingly, here are the results:

2012-2013: Lebron James - .487
2012-2013: Kobe Bryant - .394
Lebron better by .093

2011-2012: Lebron James - .436
2011-2012: Kobe Bryant - .337
Lebron better by .099

2010-2011: Lebron James - .429
2010-2011: Kobe Bryant - .455
Kobe better by .026

2009-2010: Lebron James - .495
2009-2010: Kobe Bryant - .414
Lebron better by .081

2008-2009: Lebron James - .607
2008-2009: Kobe Bryant - .448
Lebron better by .159!!!!!

2007-2008: Lebron James - .463
2007-2008: Kobe Bryant - .488
Kobe better by .025

2006-2007: Lebron James - .438
2006-2007: Kobe Bryant - .440
Kobe better by .002

2005-2006: Lebron James - .618
2005-2006: Kobe Bryant - .448
Lebron better by .170!!!!!!!

2004-2005: Lebron James - .452
2004-2005: Kobe Bryant - .328
Lebron James better by .124

In six of the past nine years, Lebron has had a better eFG% than Kobe with five minutes or less in the fourth quarter in the regular season or the playoffs, mostly be significant margins. In 2006-2007, Kobe's eFG% was only .002 better than Lebron, a completely insignificant amount, and his highest margin of victory is .026. Three times Lebron's eFG% was over .100 better than Kobe, with another year he was at .099 and .093 better than Kobe.

So there you go, Spree. If Lebron is Kwame in the Fourth Quarter, then I guess Kobe is Adam Morrison?

[spree8]

Oh and btw if you watched PTI today you could see them break down the bulk of Lebron's 4th quarter performance vs his last few possessions of the 4th. MW said that Magic Johnson made a comment during a fumble by Lebron saying "that was the worst play he's ever seen under these circumstances in NBA history". He had 2 turnovers in the final seconds (where he attempted to pass) which lead to Heat fans were cursing his name in the arena. They also said that Bosh and Allen saved Lebron from another summer of bashing and criticizing his clutch ability and guts...and I have to agree.

[Reservoirdawgs]

EDIT: Sorry, accidently quoted my post.