Statistical Comparison: Demar vs. Richard Hamilton

Troubadour · Post #1 » by **Troubadour** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:46 am

If you look anywhere on this board, you're bound to find a trade scenario involving Demar. Knowing his work ethic and his desire to develop an effective 3pt shot, I was wondering if it was at all possible for a player to develop an effective 3pt shot in the middle of his career.

Here are Demar's 3pt shooting numbers to begin the comparison:
Year 1 - 4/16 (25%)
Year 2 - 5/52 (9.6%)
Year 3 - 24/92 (26.1%) [Lockout Year]
Year 4 - 34/120 (28.3%)

He has become a league average corner 3pt shooter; however, this is on a small sample size.

In researching a reliable player comparison, I noticed Richard Hamilton had a similar start to his career from three.

Richard Hamilton
Year 1 - 28/77 (36.4%) [Very small sample size]
Year 2 - 40/146 (27.4%)
Year 3 - 16/42 (38.1%) [Played 63 games that season]
Year 4 - 32/119 (26.9%)

At this point in Rip's career, he was a much better 3pt shooter than Demar, but still shooting poorly. This continued until 2005-2006 when he went 55/120 (45.8%) from 3. He only shot below 30% from 3 once for the rest of his career. In 05-06, he shot well above league average from the corner (an average of roughly 50%).

Hamilton has never developed into a high-volume three point shooter; however, he did develop a three point shot during his playing career.

Given Demar's work ethic, I wouldn't be shocked to see a shot chart resembling this one this coming season...

stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=1888&Season=2005-06&display-mode=performance

If Demar ever does develop a 3pt shot, it will be one that is used only when it is necessary. Probably no more than 2 per game.

Is this a fair comp for Demar? Could he have Hamilton's 05-06 season this coming year?

Berserk_Raptor · Post #2 » by **Berserk_Raptor** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:08 am

you are talkin like DeMar is only "the 3pt shot" away from being a good player and you're wrong... Rip Hamilton was a nice defender and he moved extremely well without the ball... he didnt attempt many shots from beyond the arc, but he was automatic with the mid range shot... but wait, i havent even talked about Rip contributing more to the game than DeMar... assists, steals, rebounds...

airhaj · Post #3 » by **airhaj** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:09 am

I think I remember one of the mods making this comparison a few months ago.

S.W.A.N · Post #4 » by **S.W.A.N** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:15 am

Hard to say but one thing that is a positive is that Demar has improved his 3 point shot every year.

Just looking at his percentages doesn't tell the whole story.

His first year he shot 16 three pointers
second year 52 three pointers
third year 92 three pointers
fourth year 120 three pointers

Every year he has increase the number of threes while also increasing his percentage (year two dip but overall)
if he continues this trend he will be a very respectable 3 point weapon withing the next couple years

justuceee · Post #5 » by **justuceee** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:16 am

very good analysis people on this board dont understand that not everybody can be kobe or lebron, comparing demar to wes mathews, iman shupert, and other scrubs saying they would rather have those guys for "3 and d" forgetting that to have a 3 and d player you need other players to create space.

say Rudy gay went down who would be a better option to carry more offensive load, demar or those guys?

i know demar will improve his defense, he was bad last year but if you watched all 82 games there were some games where he played really good defense and stretches of games where he looked like an elite defender. it just focus in my opinion, and having a defensive leader on the floor and in the lockeroom apart from the coach.

S.W.A.N · Post #6 » by **S.W.A.N** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:21 am

Ilmago_Bargs7 wrote:you are talkin like DeMar is only "the 3pt shot" away from being a good player and you're wrong... Rip Hamilton was a nice defender and he moved extremely well without the ball... he didnt attempt many shots from beyond the arc, but he was automatic with the mid range shot... but wait, i havent even talked about Rip contributing more to the game than DeMar... assists, steals, rebounds...

You do know Demar averages about the same number of rebounds, steals and blocks as Hamiltion.... Only area where Hamiton much higher is the ONE extra assist per game he averaged.

Berserk_Raptor · Post #7 » by **Berserk_Raptor** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:22 am

justuceee wrote:very good analysis people on this board dont understand that not everybody can be kobe or lebron, comparing demar to wes mathews, iman shupert, and other scrubs saying they would rather have those guys for "3 and d" forgetting that to have a 3 and d player you need other players to create space.

say Rudy gay went down who would be a better option to carry more offensive load, demar or those guys?

i know demar will improve his defense, he was bad last year but if you watched all 82 games there were some games where he played really good defense and stretches of games where he looked like an elite defender. it just focus in my opinion, and having a defensive leader on the floor and in the lockeroom apart from the coach.

elite defense??? who he was guarding??

onions17 · Post #8 » by **onions17** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:05 am

If Demar improves his defense and passing I think it's a pretty good comparison. He can have a better post up game than Rip

Marvin Martian · Post #9 » by **Marvin Martian** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:11 am

justuceee wrote:very good analysis people on this board dont understand that not everybody can be kobe or lebron, comparing demar to wes mathews, iman shupert, and other scrubs saying they would rather have those guys for "3 and d" forgetting that to have a 3 and d player you need other players to create space.

say Rudy gay went down who would be a better option to carry more offensive load, demar or those guys?

i know demar will improve his defense, he was bad last year but if you watched all 82 games there were some games where he played really good defense and stretches of games where he looked like an elite defender. it just focus in my opinion, and having a defensive leader on the floor and in the lockeroom apart from the coach.

Kyle Lowry

FlutieX · Post #10 » by **FlutieX** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:36 am

The only thing Kyle Lowry proved is he can carry a dinner plate coming in fat as hell to start the season.

Marvin Martian · Post #11 » by **Marvin Martian** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:50 am

FlutieX wrote:The only thing Kyle Lowry proved is he can carry a dinner plate coming in fat as hell to start the season.

And that he is a more efficient scorer and playmaker than Derozan

fredericklove · Post #12 » by **fredericklove** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:58 am

No matter how identical their stats are, Demar and Rich-Ham will never be in the same level in terms of their scoring ability. Rich-Ham was probably one of the best in the league in terms of using cuts and screens, a lot of defenders have had difficult times guarding him, so exactly what skill does Demar have that is considered one of the best?

Illuminati_ · Post #13 » by **Illuminati_** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:07 am

Damn I really just read demar looked like an ELITE defender. Not adequate but elite.

Rip knew how to utilize screens and when to find seams. He was also pretty athletic in his younger days...honestly he's somebody demar shud model his game Around.

Rapz · Post #14 » by **Rapz** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:24 am

Not comparable since Rip was know to one of the best players moving without the ball - how do capture that in statistics?
By doing that he created a fluid offense and that open up his teammates.

A much higher ball IQ that Rip has over DD cannot be captured easily by statistics.

bonjovi0308 · Post #15 » by **bonjovi0308** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:46 am

Had Demar been playing for the spurs, i would have suspected he would have already developed corner threes by now

justuceee · Post #16 » by **justuceee** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:19 am

bonjovi0308 wrote:Had Demar been playing for the spurs, i would have suspected he would have already developed corner threes by now

I clearly said for some stretches of games I remember one game I forgot who it was against where he got 2 steals in a row and followed it up with a charge in consecutive possessions.

Another where he got a steal and the following possession blocked a jumpshot. I'm not saying he was an elite defender I clearly stated he was bad last year. All I'm saying is he ha the ability he just needs somebody to be on him to do it and show him that defense is just as important as offense and should be given the same amount of focus

nahom1319 · Post #17 » by **nahom1319** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:12 pm

I don't know why you guys keep trying to pigeon hole him into a role he's simply not suited for. Just trade him already to a team that wants to play fast paced or has an attacking pg. He can make use of his attacking skills better there. On a slow it down half court team with no attacking pg, he's simply not going to be all that efficient. He needs someone to draw away defenders and be a second/third fiddle rather than a pseudo #1 option.

Reignman · Post #18 » by **Reignman** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:13 pm

Who cares if Rip was better at running around screens and curls? The fact is Demar sinks the midrange J at a pretty good rate. Rip was better but the difference isn't very big.

Rip ran around that much because his off-the-dribble game was weak, he needed to do all that to free himself up for an open shot. Demar's off-the-dribble game and post game are stronger than Rip's were so he doesn't need to do all that as much as Rip but it's still an aspect of Demar's overall game.

Also, I hear people saying that Rip was better at the other aspects of the game and that's really not true either. There non-scoring stats are pretty similar.

At age 23, per 36, Rip did the following:

20 pts/3.4 rebs/2.7 asts/5.5 FTA/16.9 PER/51 TS%

- He also took less than one 3 pt attempt per game (.7) and connected at 38% (although he didn't hit 30% for the next 3 years after that as his attemps increased)

At age 23, per 36, Demar did the following:

18 pts/3.8 rebs/2.4 asts/5.1 FTA/15 PER/52 TS%

Defensively, although hard to measure, shows Demar with the slight edge:

Rip - DRTG 111 / OppPER 14.8
Demar - DRTG 110 / OppPER 10.8

Based on the information at hand, Demar is not very far off from Rip (in fact, they are very similar at the same age). Now Rip did improve and we can't predict where Demar will end up but at the moment this is a very fair comparison.

brownbobcat · Post #19 » by **brownbobcat** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:14 pm

S.W.A.N wrote:Hard to say but one thing that is a positive is that Demar has improved his 3 point shot every year.

Just looking at his percentages doesn't tell the whole story.

His first year he shot 16 three pointers
second year 52 three pointers
third year 92 three pointers
fourth year 120 three pointers

Every year he has increase the number of threes while also increasing his percentage (year two dip but overall)
if he continues this trend he will be a very respectable 3 point weapon withing the next couple years

You've got to be kidding, that is a glacial rate of improvement.

Reignman · Post #20 » by **Reignman** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:19 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:Hard to say but one thing that is a positive is that Demar has improved his 3 point shot every year.

Just looking at his percentages doesn't tell the whole story.

His first year he shot 16 three pointers
second year 52 three pointers
third year 92 three pointers
fourth year 120 three pointers

Every year he has increase the number of threes while also increasing his percentage (year two dip but overall)
if he continues this trend he will be a very respectable 3 point weapon withing the next couple years

You've got to be kidding, that is a glacial rate of improvement.

The kid barely shot the 3 ball and was refining other parts of his game like his midrange J, dribble drive, finishing through contact and post game. It seems the last 2 years he's making an effort to launch more and this summer he specifically mentioned the 3 ball is next.

Lets see what happens. JKidd got his 3 ball at age 29/30. Hopefully it doesn't take Demar that long.