NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Ruzious]

Ruzious, I'm not saying that Jordan never used an off arm or pushed off. Just that it seems to me LeBron does it a lot more. And, I agree with you on Shaq. I didn't like him doing it either, just like I don't like seeing LeBron get away with it. The funny thing is that I always hated Iverson for doing the same thing. He always cleared space for himself by using his off arm to push off. I just wish the refs would call it more frequently, because it unfairly give the offensive player an advantage.

I'm with you on most of that. I just doubt that Lebron gets away with more than most stars do. Melo's being discussed in another thread - he does the same stuff.

[FAH1223]

TONY PARKER:

"If you told us we'd be tied 3-3 with chance to win a title, we'd sign it. We just have to be positive and forget Game 6."
"It's a great challenge. We know we can beat them here."

Parker said last night’s loss is no different from a blowout. Said these players aren’t affected by a loss like that.

"if you're not ready tomorrow you're going to regret it for the next 10-15 years."

TIM DUNCAN:

"We know the opportunity we let slip through our fingers. We're not going to dwell on that. We just want to get to the game ... We like our chances."

[tweet]https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/347413808140148736[/tweet]

[dobrojim]

Not that you call the game tight down the stretch but Manu was fouled on the drive (clearly) and Green was fouled on the 3pt attempt (which I didn't have a problem with the no-call but it was still a foul nonetheless).

+1 Manu was fouled.

what I am still trying to understand is why Popp didn't have them deliberately
foul when they were up 3 with the shot clock off. Try to make them use as
much clock as you can, but put them on the line where the most they can do
is hit 2. If you can't trust your team to make more FTs than your opp, I'm not
sure you deserve to win. Try to foul them with 10 sec or less. Someone should
have tackled Bosh before letting him get the board that led to Allen's 3.

I was worried right at the beginning of the 4th Q when they let Chalmers have
a clean look at corner 3. Duncan and Parker needed to be in. It's for the freakin'
championship. 12 minutes of solid basketball and they would've had another
LO'B trophy.

Ain't over but SAN shouldn't have let it come to this.

[dobrojim]

Up 5 with 22 seconds left and lose. That is going to be hard to come back from.

that's what I'm talking about. Even a few seconds later they were up
3 with the shot clock off. Just force MIA to run clock then foul them
before they shoot. The one thing you cannot do is let them hit a 3.

crushing

[LyricalRico]

what I am still trying to understand is why Popp didn't have them deliberately
foul when they were up 3 with the shot clock off. Try to make them use as
much clock as you can, but put them on the line where the most they can do
is hit 2. If you can't trust your team to make more FTs than your opp, I'm not
sure you deserve to win. Try to foul them with 10 sec or less. Someone should
have tackled Bosh before letting him get the board that led to Allen's 3.

Didn't Pop say something afterwards like "we don't do that", referring to fouling instead of defending straight up? And I totally get that...if it's a regular season game in February against the Wizards. LOL

Hey, if Martell Webster ties/beats you on a last second shot in a meaningless game, so be it. But when you have the chance to close out what could possibly be this group's last chance to add another ring to their collection (we're talking legacy, HOF here), you gotta do what you gotta do.

[dobrojim]

To me, the biggest difference between Jordan and LeBron offensively is that Jordan typically scored based on elite shooting, being crafty, and athletic ability. LeBron gets most of his points off of transition and bulling through people because of his size. Honestly, if the refs called it correctly, LeBron would foul out just about every game. He just bulls over people to get to the rim. He constantly uses his off arm to shove people out of the way, either getting position down low or driving to the rim. To me, LeBron is great offensively because he is so darn big and athletic, not because he is so skilled. Jordan was great offensively because he was that skilled.

You're right but lets not be revisionist and suggest to our younger brethren
that MJ wasn't capable of bullying and/or hiding fouls, sometimes in plain sight,
to create openings for himself or to make great defensive plays. Him shoving
Bryon Russell out of the way to win his last championship is cliche MJ. But I'm
with you, I ultimately liked MJ lot more than LBJ.

[dobrojim]

what I am still trying to understand is why Popp didn't have them deliberately
foul when they were up 3 with the shot clock off. Try to make them use as
much clock as you can, but put them on the line where the most they can do
is hit 2. If you can't trust your team to make more FTs than your opp, I'm not
sure you deserve to win. Try to foul them with 10 sec or less. Someone should
have tackled Bosh before letting him get the board that led to Allen's 3.

Didn't Pop say something afterwards like "we don't do that", referring to fouling instead of defending straight up? And I totally get that...if it's a regular season game in February against the Wizards. LOL

Hey, if Martell Webster ties/beats you on a last second shot in a meaningless game, so be it. But when you have the chance to close out what could possibly be this group's last chance to add another ring to their collection (we're talking legacy, HOF here), you gotta do what you gotta do.

I think it's the right play whether it's a meaningless game mid-season or with
a set of rings at stake. You want to win? Employ the optimum strategy. You HAVE
to foul them, make them beat you that way. You cannot do what they ended up
letting them do and that's admitting there were close instances after the first
miss where SAN almost came up with the ball. Foul them then with ~ 5 sec left.

[dangermouse]

We witnessed one of those classic Finals games that will go down in history. Well, LeBron's history.

Jordan had those classic games in the playoffs and finals. We all remember The Shrug. We all remember how he battled the flu and rose to the challenge like a champion.

LeBron just had his flu game. He lost his headband and had to rise to the challenge.

The Receding Hairline game.

I'm surprised and as a matter of fact, in awe, that Wade and Bosh didn't have to help him off the floor after the victory, his arms bereft of energy draped over the shoulders of his comrades, as they help him to the locker room where he can have a lie down and some Rogain.

I take back everything I ever said about LeBron. True heart of a champion that will rise above adversity to lead their team to a win.

[FAH1223]

Y! SPORTS: Duncan was illegally substituted in at end of regulation

Imagine if Parker found Duncan cutting to the basket on the final play of regulation and Timmy layed it in and had the game winner... all the while he was not supposed to be in the game

The more I think about it, the more crazy it would be. Duncan sinks the final shot, is hailed as a hero, wins finals MVP, accepts the LOB trophy from David Stern, goes through the trophy presentation ceremony and questions with the media, celebrates with champagne in the locker room. All of San Antonio celebrates and just before they get on the plane back to San Antonio, the league rules the final 5 seconds must be replayed. Parker clanks a bad jump shot, they play overtime, lose and have to prepare for game 7. Now that would be the greatest mind F*** of all time.

[dobrojim]

Y! SPORTS: Duncan was illegally substituted in at end of regulation

Imagine if Parker found Duncan cutting to the basket on the final play of regulation and Timmy layed it in and had the game winner... all the while he was not supposed to be in the game

The more I think about it, the more crazy it would be. Duncan sinks the final shot, is hailed as a hero, wins finals MVP, accepts the LOB trophy from David Stern, goes through the trophy presentation ceremony and questions with the media, celebrates with champagne in the locker room. All of San Antonio celebrates and just before they get on the plane back to San Antonio, the league rules the final 5 seconds must be replayed. Parker clanks a bad jump shot, they play overtime, lose and have to prepare for game 7. Now that would be the greatest mind F*** of all time.

I think if that had happened, they would have had to let it stand. I seriously doubt
they replay the final seconds. Where/how would they do that, in an empty arena?

[dandridge 10]

To me, the biggest difference between Jordan and LeBron offensively is that Jordan typically scored based on elite shooting, being crafty, and athletic ability. LeBron gets most of his points off of transition and bulling through people because of his size. Honestly, if the refs called it correctly, LeBron would foul out just about every game. He just bulls over people to get to the rim. He constantly uses his off arm to shove people out of the way, either getting position down low or driving to the rim. To me, LeBron is great offensively because he is so darn big and athletic, not because he is so skilled. Jordan was great offensively because he was that skilled.

You're right but lets not be revisionist and suggest to our younger brethren
that MJ wasn't capable of bullying and/or hiding fouls, sometimes in plain sight,
to create openings for himself or to make great defensive plays. Him shoving
Bryon Russell out of the way to win his last championship is cliche MJ. But I'm
with you, I ultimately liked MJ lot more than LBJ.

Again, I never said or meant to suggest Jordan was not capable of bullying or hiding fouls. I just think that Michael was more skilled than LeBron offensively. LeBron gets most of his points by overpowering people (whether within the rules or not). I think Jordan got most of his points by elite shooting and skill.

But, you know what, I didn't like MJ more than LeBron. The funny thing is I dislike both of them the same. I think they are/were both great basketball players, but both are/were douchebags too.

[AFM]

To me, the biggest difference between Jordan and LeBron offensively is that Jordan typically scored based on elite shooting, being crafty, and athletic ability. LeBron gets most of his points off of transition and bulling through people because of his size. Honestly, if the refs called it correctly, LeBron would foul out just about every game. He just bulls over people to get to the rim. He constantly uses his off arm to shove people out of the way, either getting position down low or driving to the rim. To me, LeBron is great offensively because he is so darn big and athletic, not because he is so skilled. Jordan was great offensively because he was that skilled.

You're right but lets not be revisionist and suggest to our younger brethren
that MJ wasn't capable of bullying and/or hiding fouls, sometimes in plain sight,
to create openings for himself or to make great defensive plays. Him shoving
Bryon Russell out of the way to win his last championship is cliche MJ. But I'm
with you, I ultimately liked MJ lot more than LBJ.

Again, I never said or meant to suggest Jordan was not capable of bullying or hiding fouls. I just think that Michael was more skilled than LeBron offensively. LeBron gets most of his points by overpowering people (whether within the rules or not). I think Jordan got most of his points by elite shooting and skill.

But, you know what, I didn't like MJ more than LeBron. The funny thing is I dislike both of them the same. I think they are/were both great basketball players, but both are/were douchebags too.

Oh yeah. It's not even close. MJ was a god.

[hands11]

All I have to say is... that really sucked. I thought they had it.

[Kanyewest]

I thought Manu's last play was either a a foul or a travel. I am sick of refs swallowing their whistle in either case. I think the Spurs still have a good chance to pull it out but it would have been nice if they had already won game 6. Hopefully Pop doesn't outsmart himself and leave Duncan in at the end of games to get rebounds.

[FAH1223]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IraHeatBeat/status/347700658394238976[/tweet]

Probably the most balanced ref crew of the series.

Danny Crawford- Game 3
Foster- Game 4
McCutchen- Game 5

Two of the three were in games Spurs won, and all three games weren't badly officiated either.

[GhostsOfGil]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IraHeatBeat/status/347700658394238976[/tweet]

Probably the most balanced ref crew of the series.

Danny Crawford- Game 3
Foster- Game 4
McCutchen- Game 5

Two of the three were in games Spurs won, and all three games weren't badly officiated either.

Ya thats not so bad.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

That is a fair crew. Expect no BS.

[AFM]

One of them will probably have a suspicious heart attack and Joey Crawford will take his place.

[FAH1223]

Look at this parallel between Lakers and Heat after Shaq's departure for both franchises.

2002 – Los Angeles Lakers win title with Shaquille O’Neal

2006 – Miami Heat win title with Shaquille O’Neal

2 Years Later

2004 – Shaquille O’Neal leaves the Lakers, Lakers become lottery team

2008 – Shaquille O’Neal leaves the Heat, Miami become lottery team

After that

2006, 2007 - After missing the playoffs, the Lakers have back to back 1st round exits. Their first playoff bout ends in 7, their second in 5. During this time, the team is essentially Kobe Bryant (A top-5 player) and garbage.

2009, 2010 - After missing the playoffs, the Heat have back to back 1st round exits. Their first playoff bout ends in 7, their second in 5. During this time, the team is essentially Dwayne Wade (A top-5 player) and garbage.

2008 - The Lakers’ solid offseason/trade deadline allows them to become one of the best teams in the league.

2011 - The Heat’s solid offseason/trade deadline allows them to become one of the best teams in the league.

2008 - The Lakers make it all the way to the Finals, without much competition, only to lose in 6 to a defensive minded team full of hungry veterans. Their star player recieves a ton of hate for his poor performance.

2011 - The Heat make it all the way to the Finals, without much competition, only to lose in 6 to a defensive minded team full of hungry veterans. Their star player recieves a ton of hate for his poor performance.

2009 - The Lakers make it back to the Finals, and get matched up against an unexperienced team featuring one of the brightest young stars in the NBA.

2012 - The Heat make it back to the Finals, and get matched up against an unexperienced team featuring one of the brightest young stars in the NBA.

2009 - The Lakers win in 5, proving all the doubters wrong

2012 - The Heat win in 5, proving all the doubters wrong

2010 - The Lakers make it back to the finals, matched up against a former title team with it’s core still in tact.

2013 - The Heat make it back to the finals, matched up against a former title team with it’s core still in tact.

2010 - The Lakers go down 3-2, but win Game 6 to force Game 7 at home.

2013 - The Heat go down 3-2, but win Game 6 to force Game 7 at home.

2010 - The Lakers manage to win game 7, claiming the NBA title and winning back-to-back.

2013 - The Heat?

[verbal8]

Look at this parallel between Lakers and Heat after Shaq's departure for both franchises.

2002 – Los Angeles Lakers win title with Shaquille O’Neal

2006 – Miami Heat win title with Shaquille O’Neal

.....

So if the Heat win it is all Shaq's fault

It is interesting to see the parallels between the 2 franchises. It does seem that teams in the NBA seem to go through cycles and a lot of even the good ones will have down years. If the Heat hold their core together I could see them looking like the Lakers in 3 years, with a high payroll and not much hope of more than a 1st round exit.