Official Speculation Thread (Pt. LV - NBA Draft Edition)

[Skin]

Why is there an argument about who's a better spot up shooter at SG? We already have that.

His name is Arron Afflalo.

Year 3 pt attempts 3Pt%
'08-'09 1.4 .402
'09-'10 3.0 .434
'10-'11 3.6 .423
'11-'12 3.6 .398

We asked him to go outside of his element last season, but now we know how to use him best. What we need is a SG who will give us what he doesn't. That is defense and a slasher. Hello-ladipo!!!

[OrlDave]

McLemore's problem is that he doesn't do enough. He can shoot and finish in transition, that's it. You can find guys much later in the draft that can do that (Reggie Bullock, Allen Crabbe). He's a bad defender, has a poor motor, can't create his own offense, has no handle, is a poor finisher in the halfcourt and doesn't draw fouls or get to the line. There are so many things McLemore needs to fix in his game and his mentality for him to be even decent in the NBA, let alone a star. It's why the Ray Allen comps have always been hilarious, his strengths and weaknesses are almost identical to Wesley Johnson's.

If Oladipo plateaus tomorrow then he's Tony Allen who can hit an open jumper and perhaps a little better floor game. That's still a starter on a deep playoff team.

I'll take my stab at this as well. Didn't someone post that Ben's man defense was actually more effective than Victor's? Held players to a lower shooting % ect? You then say he doesn't draw fouls? He drew the same as Oladipo per game (slight more actually, 3.7 v. 3.6) but made more due to his superior FT% (3.2 v. 2.7). Then there is the undefinable "motor" thing. Hard to dispute what is not definable. Yeah... he's got more MOTOR. Alright, I'll take your word for it?

Ben was a hyped freshman versus Oladipo, a guy who nobody talked about till his JUNIOR season. It's hard to compare the two accurately.

[Mannchild]

This would be a good move it that team happens to be us.

Are you implying that we should trade #2 for him or try and acquire another pic for him? I dont care how bad this draft is i wouldnt trade a top 5 pick for Robinson. Now, i would def trade a 8-15 pick for him.

No, I made a mistake. The way I read it was HOU would give up a first rounder in order for someone to take T-Rob off their hands. lol. My bad.

oh lol. I do like TRob though and would be willing to offer a future protected first for him which is probably what the Rockets want since it wouldnt add anything to their cap this year.

[94_MagicFan]

Start Getting the next thread ready

[rcklsscognition]

At least we all agree that McLemore is the better player and has the better potential. Moving on to other business...

Anyone got a read on Phil Pressey with our 2nd rounder?

[Neon1]

At least we all agree that McLemore is the better player and has the better potential. Moving on to other business...

Anyone got a read on Phil Pressey with our 2nd rounder?

Super small, super quick. Really good passer. His dad was a really good in Milwaukee. He's kinda like Shane Larkin except Larkin is a much better shooter. Pressey isn't gonna score much, he kinda reminds me of Brevin Knight.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLEvGbR8uzw[/youtube]

[Viper1500]

Great special on Ben Mclemore right now - channel 1137 cbs sports(bright house)

[fendilim]

Kids, when is the draft?

[RookieStar]

so... after reading..... we are still back in square 1 where there is no clear-cut number 1 that will make the majority of us happy.

[dsg2021]

Kansas relied on McLemore for offense more than Indiana did Oladipo. They ran a lot of screens for McLemore to get catch-and-shoot looks, in a manner not dissimilar to J.J. Redick at Duke. He was encouraged to shoot more, and a lot of the offense was built around getting him open. In the pros, both players, like J.J. Redick, will probably be relegated to the role of opportunistic, non-first option shooters, the way Oladipo was in college.



1. All of the heights were barefoot heights taken from DraftExpress.
2. McLemore's not all that young; he redshirted his freshman year and turned 20 in February. He's like 8 or 9 months younger than Oladipo, 3 months younger than Shabazz.

Good point on the first paragraph, the offense structure of each team could be a huge factor, but I think the career shooting %'s of McLemore and Oladipo again point to McLemore just being one of the best shooters period. Also, you're really underrating how hard it is to use screens and bodies that crafty for shooting and making those shots. Then you mention J.J., who actually still does use a lot of screens and crafty motion off bodies for his shooting just fine as the not-first option in offense in the past 3-4 NBA seasons. You could point to J.J.'s first two poor seasons of getting shots and make a McLemore correlation, but then you're admitting there is a curve of improvement there for someone who is a pure shooter, and I never ever thought McLemore would be an amazing SG from day 1 or season 1. That's what I project in another season or so though. Using J.J. also hurts though again, the Magic set a ton of screens for him, so you just made a bridge for those same teammates to use those same screens/techniques J.J. used with them, for McLemore.


Your second paragraph is right, but I failed to mention on my part that I meant comparing McLemore's weight to the in the NBA already SG's ages & corresponding weights. Someone that young being only 10-15 lbs from NBA SG's who are varied amounts of years already older then McLemore. So he can't make 10 lbs in 2-3 years from now you think, if he has to?
The heights points were really wrong of me to assume you lied or shoehorned, but I also failed to mention that in all 7 SG's heights you mentioned, McLemore was actually taller than 4/7 of them and really close to 5/7 of them (Harden) anyways. Again, I don't want to think McLemore/Oladipo are taller than most NBA SG's anyways, but take their speed and athleticism into it, and they' will, again, be great NBA SG's in the athletic sense.

1. At the end of the day, for all J.J. Redick was as a player here, he was still a 28-year-old backup on the worst team in the league. He wasn't getting screens run for him or plays called for him when the Magic were contenders, or even on a fringe-playoff team like the Bucks. J.J. probably surpassed the expectations of some who thought he'd bust as an 11th pick, but he did little more than that. Not someone I'd be excited about drafting 2nd overall.

2. There's nothing that special about McLemore's shooting numbers. This year alone, a bunch of college players bested his shooting volume and accuracy -- and not just guys from mid-majors and obscure colleges, either (See: Seth Curry, Reggie Bullock, Joe Harris, Erik Murphy, etc.)

3. The guys I picked out to compare to McLemore were specifically those around his height. There's no sense comparing him to guys like Paul George (6'7.75"), Tracy McGrady (6'6.5") or Klay Thompson (6'5.75") that are much taller than he is. And perhaps I should have also explained that all the weights are also taken from those pre-draft measurements on DraftExpress.

4. Their vertical leaps are indeed impressive, but it doesn't amount to much if they don't use it in the game. (High-flying fastbreak dunks don't count).

1. Respectfully, wrong. J.J. was a decently important piece in the Magic's contender years. SVG said he trusted him the most out of all his players, and that says something. He was also usually always one of our biggest 4th Q/X factor players this past season; as well as one of their highest scorers. But back to the Magic's contender years, he put up around 10 PPG for three straight seasons with many parts of his other game not included in McLemore's added abilities (mainly just McLemore's athleticism right now actually). And this season, J.J. increased to 15 PPG for the Magic and increased to 12 PPG for a short Bucks stint. The screens thing you said; of J.J. not getting them seems very, very weird. Most screens are not inside the plays called, they happen naturally very often with chemistry from teammates. I suppose I could really look at old Magic games to show you this, but J.J. was running off indirect screens and using bodies as an obstacle course a lot in his previous few seasons. Direct screens also occurred for J.J. often, but I don't think they were often the primary action of the play, more like the 2nd to 4th option of the specific play. The overall effect was a high accuracy and solid chance to be open 3 point shooter, very dangerous in the spaced out NBA.

2. I don't have the ease to argue this, so your opinion on it could be just as good as anyone's. I'm not going to get into him maintaining a high 3PA/FGA with his level of shooting, and if so and so players jump or run as fast McLemore, too hard to prove from any side.

3. I never thought the weights were wrong, just the heights not being in shoes and in barefoot instead really threw me off and I should have thought to look for barefoot heights instead. I also specifically said twice in a row, that I believe McLemore and Oladipo to be shorter than the average NBA SG anyways. I also said twice in a row, that both of their athleticisms probably make competing/driving against NBA body SG's a wash in the end. Just my own opinion that McLemore will be fine driving and playing with NBA SG's (where at worst he needs to grow/gain a little in one season or two).

4. Both McLemore and Oladipo use their vertical leap a lot. Both get pretty good jumping elevation on shots, but McLemore does this kind of really high jump in almost every single 3 he takes, as well as many other jumpers. Oladipo probably has used his vertical more for actual, half court driving layups and dunks than McLemore from all the games I've seen of them, but McLemore uses an also really high jump to do a side-fading drive (usually once he's on the 2 step no dribble rule), or a floater, or less occasionally, a half court style at the rim drive or dunk.

[dsg2021]

Why is there an argument about who's a better spot up shooter at SG? We already have that.

His name is Arron Afflalo.

Year 3 pt attempts 3Pt%
'08-'09 1.4 .402
'09-'10 3.0 .434
'10-'11 3.6 .423
'11-'12 3.6 .398

We asked him to go outside of his element last season, but now we know how to use him best. What we need is a SG who will give us what he doesn't. That is defense and a slasher. Hello-ladipo!!!

Afflalo is only like 27 still too. He also has only four 20+ MPG seasons so far on his NBA mileage before dropping 15.2 and 16.5 PPG the past two seasons with great career %'s. I believe you just won the internets
I don't think you have to look away from McLemore though, I would love a McLemore and Afflalo SG rotation any day, along with any on the floor together minutes since they're both dead eye shooters. Maybe Afflalo is a big factor in guiding and developing McLemore too.

[KillMonger]

Ok these highlights are what i'd like to call complete highlights it shows the good and the bad. That being said you be the judge

Ben McLemore
[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmv76ygYW0[/YouTube]

Victor Oladipo
[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24QgSEcifnU[/YouTube]

[Hussein Bolt]

Pressey doesn't impress me at all. I remember Wilbekin shutting him down and Pressey having 8 TOs. I guess I just can't look at him the same after that.

[Driguez]

Kids, when is the draft?

June 27th

[BaunceyChillups]

I'll take my stab at this as well. Didn't someone post that Ben's man defense was actually more effective than Victor's? Held players to a lower shooting % ect? You then say he doesn't draw fouls? He drew the same as Oladipo per game (slight more actually, 3.7 v. 3.6) but made more due to his superior FT% (3.2 v. 2.7). Then there is the undefinable "motor" thing. Hard to dispute what is not definable. Yeah... he's got more MOTOR. Alright, I'll take your word for it?

Ben was a hyped freshman versus Oladipo, a guy who nobody talked about till his JUNIOR season. It's hard to compare the two accurately.

Well you're wrong about his man defense since McLemore was notorious for giving up penetration and for not being in his stance, his closeouts were also hilariously bad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MHaCrtbL_zg#t=730s). PLus McLemore's FT per FGA, FT per 40 and FT per possession all round out the bottom of this year's shooting guard crop. Oladipo ranks higher than him in all of those categories inspite of having a lower usage %.

[MagicFan41]

Why I think Dwight ends up a Clipper soon:

1) He wants the big market of LA, with the endorsements and movies and music and glitz and glamour and fake people like himself
2) He has always wanted to team up with CP3, and vice versa
3) The Clippers probably realize they aren't QUITE contenders with the lineup as assembled
4) The Lakers will want to get back both some star power, since it's LA after all, as well as young building blocks (Bledsoe and Blake)
5) He has the leverage to walk to Houston or Dallas, so the Lakers aren't necessarily in the driver's seat here to try to call his bluff...especially considering that he gets the lack of state income tax in Texas, and the difference in salary from the 5 yr max to the 4 yr almost-max becomes somewhat negligible. So he can certainly play the "trade me to the Clippers or I'm heading to Texas for nothing" card if he wants. Up to the Lakers to try to call his bluff or not.
6) He certainly won't be under the same pressure as he is being a Laker (all the history, all the great big men, etc etc)....and yet he will still be able to reap all of the "benefits" of living in LA in his mind
7) Nobody in Lakerland seems all that enamored with Dwight, so I don't think there would be any PR backlash or anything of that nature if they did trade him.

[cedric76]

Why I think Dwight ends up a Clipper soon:

1) He wants the big market of LA, with the endorsements and movies and music and glitz and glamour and fake people like himself
2) He has always wanted to team up with CP3, and vice versa
3) The Clippers probably realize they aren't QUITE contenders with the lineup as assembled
4) The Lakers will want to get back both some star power, since it's LA after all, as well as young building blocks (Bledsoe and Blake)
5) He has the leverage to walk to Houston or Dallas, so the Lakers aren't necessarily in the driver's seat here to try to call his bluff...especially considering that he gets the lack of state income tax in Texas, and the difference in salary from the 5 yr max to the 4 yr almost-max becomes somewhat negligible. So he can certainly play the "trade me to the Clippers or I'm heading to Texas for nothing" card if he wants. Up to the Lakers to try to call his bluff or not.
6) He certainly won't be under the same pressure as he is being a Laker (all the history, all the great big men, etc etc)....and yet he will still be able to reap all of the "benefits" of living in LA in his mind
7) Nobody in Lakerland seems all that enamored with Dwight, so I don't think there would be any PR backlash or anything of that nature if they did trade him.

Houston s team would be better than lac and muchhhh better ownership

Sent from my HTC One using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Def Swami]

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 35m
RT @kennethmacleod: Is McLemore a lock to go 2nd then if available. ---> No... hearing Len #1 and Oladipo #2... Nerlens #3

[MagicFan41]

Why I think Dwight ends up a Clipper soon:

1) He wants the big market of LA, with the endorsements and movies and music and glitz and glamour and fake people like himself
2) He has always wanted to team up with CP3, and vice versa
3) The Clippers probably realize they aren't QUITE contenders with the lineup as assembled
4) The Lakers will want to get back both some star power, since it's LA after all, as well as young building blocks (Bledsoe and Blake)
5) He has the leverage to walk to Houston or Dallas, so the Lakers aren't necessarily in the driver's seat here to try to call his bluff...especially considering that he gets the lack of state income tax in Texas, and the difference in salary from the 5 yr max to the 4 yr almost-max becomes somewhat negligible. So he can certainly play the "trade me to the Clippers or I'm heading to Texas for nothing" card if he wants. Up to the Lakers to try to call his bluff or not.
6) He certainly won't be under the same pressure as he is being a Laker (all the history, all the great big men, etc etc)....and yet he will still be able to reap all of the "benefits" of living in LA in his mind
7) Nobody in Lakerland seems all that enamored with Dwight, so I don't think there would be any PR backlash or anything of that nature if they did trade him.

Houston s team would be better than lac and muchhhh better ownership

Sent from my HTC One using RealGM Forums mobile app

Did I say anywhere in there that it would or wouldn't be? I simply detailed the rationale of why I think he will become a Clipper. Dwight's decisions really aren't based entirely around winning.

[Cane4Ship]

What's the state of our team? Are we gunning for a PG with the #2 pick?

Personally, I think that's what we should take.

Projected starting line up next season

Nelson
Afflalol (I'm not sure if Hark can handle 2 responsibilities, but if he can) Make Afflalo 6th man
Hark
BBD
Vucevic

Nelson
Harkless
Harris
BBD
Vucevic