Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2

[nate33]

I always need a reason for hope, so I prefer to trade Okafor rather than Nene. I don't trade Nene unless his foot doesn't improve - so I wait, because only time will tell unless the doctor knows something. Okafor is a solid dependable player, but Nene is more than that when he's healthy. To me, trading Nene is almost like giving up and truly not having a goal to be more than a .500 team. Nene and Pau together might not end well, but at least it's taking a chance at something real good.

My thinking is that trading Nene for Pau gives us even more hope. I think Pau is roughly as effective as Nene but with more durability. We would be a real strong team with a healthy Nene at 30 minutes per game for 75 games. Pau gives us just that.

But the beauty is that next year, both Okafor and Pau come off the books, giving us an insane amount of cap room. We could resign one or both of them, or we could try and sign Cousins or others. Or we could keep our powder try and then go after Kanter the following year.

[verbal8]

It would save the lakers a ton of money next year. They are $30 million over the luxury tax. That means their rate above $20 million is roughly $4/$1 over. Slicing $4.5 million off in a swap of Nene and an EK(Ernie's Kid) for Gasol will save them $18 million. That with the 6 million less Nene makes essentially pays his salary for 2 of the 3 years remaining on his contract.

I always need a reason for hope, so I prefer to trade Okafor rather than Nene. I don't trade Nene unless his foot doesn't improve - so I wait, because only time will tell unless the doctor knows something. Okafor is a solid dependable player, but Nene is more than that when he's healthy. To me, trading Nene is almost like giving up and truly not having a goal to be more than a .500 team. Nene and Pau together might not end well, but at least it's taking a chance at something real good.

My thinking is that trading Nene for Pau gives us even more hope. I think Pau is roughly as effective as Nene but with more durability. We would be a real strong team with a healthy Nene at 30 minutes per game for 75 games. Pau gives us just that.

But the beauty is that next year, both Okafor and Pau come off the books, giving us an insane amount of cap room. We could resign one or both of them, or we could try and sign Cousins or others. Or we could keep our powder try and then go after Kanter the following year.

[LyricalRico]

Wow, Clips/Celts deal might not even be legal under the CBA:

The NBA has cast doubt on the proposed trade between the Clippers and Boston Celtics because a coach cannot be traded for a player under the collective bargaining agreement, said a person familiar with the talks who was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.

<snip>

NBA commissioner David Stern addressed the deal Thursday on ESPN’s national syndicated radio show “The Herd with Collin Cowherd.”

Stern agreed on the show that NBA rules prevent trades with “contingencies or side deals attached.”

“I would say that if we know that what the parties really wanted to do is one and they’re going to break into two for purposes of trying to avoid the restrictions that the collective bargaining agreement places on it -- we know how to deal with that as well,” Stern said on the show.

The Clippers are trying to make tweaks to the deal, according to NBA executives.

Stern said it was “correct” to say his office said the deal wasn’t legitimate.

“The teams – how shall I say this? – the teams know that,” Stern said.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow ... 3530.story

[LyricalRico]

More on BOS/LAC:

NBA Commissioner David Stern addressed the issue on Thursday while appearing on ESPN Radio in New York.

"I would say, uh, in the language of diplomacy that the teams are aware that the collective bargaining agreement doesn't authorize trades involving coaches contracts," Stern said. "The only consideration that can be done here in player transactions is other players, draft picks, and a very limited amount of cash. But coaches contracts don't qualify as extra consideration, or acceptable consideration in player transactions. The teams know that. It has been confirmed to them. And...what the rules won't allow can't be gotten around by breaking it up into two transactions."

<snip>

The deal could still get done, but one of two adjustments may need to be made: the Celtics may need to offer more in the deal than just Garnett, with draft picks the most logical possibility; the Clippers, who have been attempting to give up just one first-round draft pick, may be allowed to give up less in the trade. The real trade value of the 37-year-old is at the center of this discussion, as the idea that Boston could net two first-round draft picks and a respectable replacement in Jordan who is 13 years younger clearly doesn't calculate for league officials.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb ... e/2442231/

So basically the league is saying that Garnett isn't worth Jordan and 2 firsts, so some of that must actually be in exchange for Doc Rivers and that's not allowed. So Boston would apparently have to take less in return for KG and then get nothing for Rivers in order for the league to be satisfied. Could very well kill the deal.

(The article ends with the interesting thought that this is the second time the league has sabotaged Chris Paul's plans. First, they didn't let him go to the Lakers. And now they are saying he can't have Doc & KG. Crazy.)

[verbal8]

Yeah it is weird. If the deal gets done, I wonder if it includes Pierce, and a 3rd team that wants to shed salary.

I think the Clippers can get away with this year's pick but the 2nd is too much.

More on BOS/LAC:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb ... e/2442231/

So basically the league is saying that Garnett isn't worth Jordan and 2 firsts, so some of that must actually be in exchange for Doc Rivers and that's not allowed. So Boston would apparently have to take less in return for KG and then get nothing for Rivers in order for the league to be satisfied. Could very well kill the deal.

(The article ends with the interesting thought that this is the second time the league has sabotaged Chris Paul's plans. First, they didn't let him go to the Lakers. And now they are saying he can't have Doc & KG. Crazy.)

[LyricalRico]

Okay, so now the KG deal is dead...but they will still try to pry Doc from Boston and then see what happens. I can definitely see them still signing Pierce (assuming he's waived), but after all the public stink Stern just made I can't see how they can be allowed to ever trade for KG. And of course he won't stay in Boston if Doc and PP are gone.

Other destinations? Basically any team that strikes out on Dwight Howard IMO.

- Houston: trade him for some of their excess youth if they strike out on Dwight
- Atlanta: short-term frontcourt fix if they can't get Dwight and also let Smith walk
- Dallas: would be a weird fit IMO, but might be an option if they don't get Dwight

Boston can probably get the best deal from Houston (TRob+filler+picks) and I think KG might put them over the top as the veteran leader on a mostly young team. He would also go back to playing PF, but wouldn't have to play as many minutes.

[verbal8]

Okay, so now the KG deal is dead...but they will still try to pry Doc from Boston and then see what happens.

I am a little confused about what the Clippers are offering for Doc Rivers. Reportedly they aren't offering a draft pick. Sterns says that players can't be involved in a deal for a coach. It seems to me the 25th pick is a pretty reasonable offer. The Nuggets reportedly offered the 27th.

I think the KG deal is only "mostly-dead".

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yokQ0_8__ts[/youtube]

What I have seen says they are trying to figure out the Doc Rivers deal 1st.

I think Boston is too far down the path of starting the teardown/rebuild, I don't see how they bring back Rivers and Pierce at this point. Which also means Garnett leaves.

[LyricalRico]

I think Boston is too far down the path of starting the teardown/rebuild, I don't see how they bring back Rivers and Pierce at this point. Which also means Garnett leaves.

Agreed, I think they are all gone. I'm just saying I'm not sure Stern would have gone on national radio and said what he said, only to allow it after all just because they space the moves out by a couple weeks/months. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[LyricalRico]

Holy crap! I just looked and the Spurs will have max cap space this summer! They do have to re-sign Splitter but even so they should still have close to $15M available if the waive Bonner (or they could use him to make a trade in the next week). I had no idea the extensions for Parker and Duncan were so modest (especially Duncan).

http://data.shamsports.com/content/page ... /spurs.jsp

Since they already have Parker/Duncan on the books beyond 2014, they could clean up by trading with teams trying to unload guys before the new luxury tax kicks in. As long as all of the contracts expire by 2015, it won't hurt them longterm.

JJ Barea
Jared Dudley
Jason Terry
Brandon Bass
Chuck Hayes
Jonas Jerebko
Kosta Koufos
Louis Scola
Anderson Verajao

I could see all of those guys fitting in with SA, and they should be able to get at least 3 of them IMO. Wow...

[verbal8]

The only max/near-max free agent I could see them signing would be Josh Smith. He fills a position of need and possibly could live up to his potential in the Spur's system.

Some lower level free agents I could see them going after:
Reddick
Iguodala
Millsap
Ayon
Copeland
Brandan Wright
Belinelli
Kirilenko

Holy crap! I just looked and the Spurs will have max cap space this summer! They do have to re-sign Splitter but even so they should still have close to $15M available if the waive Bonner (or they could use him to make a trade in the next week). I had no idea the extensions for Parker and Duncan were so modest (especially Duncan).

http://data.shamsports.com/content/page ... /spurs.jsp

Since they already have Parker/Duncan on the books beyond 2014, they could clean up by trading with teams trying to unload guys before the new luxury tax kicks in. As long as all of the contracts expire by 2015, it won't hurt them longterm.

JJ Barea
Jared Dudley
Jason Terry
Brandon Bass
Chuck Hayes
Jonas Jerebko
Kosta Koufos
Louis Scola
Anderson Verajao

I could see all of those guys fitting in with SA, and they should be able to get at least 3 of them IMO. Wow...

[closg00]

Holy crap! I just looked and the Spurs will have max cap space this summer! They do have to re-sign Splitter but even so they should still have close to $15M available if the waive Bonner (or they could use him to make a trade in the next week). I had no idea the extensions for Parker and Duncan were so modest (especially Duncan).

http://data.shamsports.com/content/page ... /spurs.jsp

Since they already have Parker/Duncan on the books beyond 2014, they could clean up by trading with teams trying to unload guys before the new luxury tax kicks in. As long as all of the contracts expire by 2015, it won't hurt them longterm.

JJ Barea
Jared Dudley
Jason Terry
Brandon Bass
Chuck Hayes
Jonas Jerebko
Kosta Koufos
Louis Scola
Anderson Verajao

I could see all of those guys fitting in with SA, and they should be able to get at least 3 of them IMO. Wow...

Shocker, the Spurs are a well-run organization

[Rafael122]

Yeah, I think that's something people are missing on the Spurs, they could easily reload this summer and next for another run. They've got 2 corner stones in Parker and Leonard. I wouldn't bring Manu back, he was just embarrassing in this series.

[FAH1223]

Holy crap! I just looked and the Spurs will have max cap space this summer! They do have to re-sign Splitter but even so they should still have close to $15M available if the waive Bonner (or they could use him to make a trade in the next week). I had no idea the extensions for Parker and Duncan were so modest (especially Duncan).

http://data.shamsports.com/content/page ... /spurs.jsp

Since they already have Parker/Duncan on the books beyond 2014, they could clean up by trading with teams trying to unload guys before the new luxury tax kicks in. As long as all of the contracts expire by 2015, it won't hurt them longterm.

JJ Barea
Jared Dudley
Jason Terry
Brandon Bass
Chuck Hayes
Jonas Jerebko
Kosta Koufos
Louis Scola
Anderson Verajao

I could see all of those guys fitting in with SA, and they should be able to get at least 3 of them IMO. Wow...

Timmy is still a great big man and he could have demanded much more last offseason. It just shows how superstars like him are so rare. He went from making $21 million to $10 million for a chance to win more.

I think they will re-sign Splitter at THEIR price. They then will go after a shooter and another big man. They also need another wing defender with size to help out Leonard defensively.

The Spurs are in GREAT shape. They also have their draft picks and you know they'll add someone of quality to their system next week.

[pancakes3]

Absolutely mindblowing. It definitely softens the blow of last night's loss. Jeeze. If they get Josh Smith? They could replace the '08 Celtics as the best defensive team of all time.

[Dat2U]

Josh Smith being coached by Gregg Popovich is something I'd bet money on that we'll never ever see.

Josh Smith is the anti-spur.

Who's the next guy they'll sign? Monta Ellis?

[verbal8]

Josh Smith being coached by Gregg Popovich is something I'd bet money on that we'll never ever see.

Josh Smith is the anti-spur.

Who's the next guy they'll sign? Monta Ellis?

Stephen Jackson seems like the Anti-spur also. The only reason, I see a chance is his 2009-10 season where he wisely stopped shooting 3 pointers. His 2pt% is fine(near 50% for the last 4 years), his FTA are good even if his % isn't great. He has a reputation as a good defender.

I agree Monta Ellis would be an anti-spur.

[Dat2U]

Josh Smith being coached by Gregg Popovich is something I'd bet money on that we'll never ever see.

Josh Smith is the anti-spur.

Who's the next guy they'll sign? Monta Ellis?

Stephen Jackson seems like the Anti-spur also. The only reason, I see a chance is his 2009-10 season where he wisely stopped shooting 3 pointers. His 2pt% is fine(near 50% for the last 4 years), his FTA are good even if his % isn't great. He has a reputation as a good defender.

I agree Monta Ellis would be an anti-spur.

Jackson was so bad this season, on the court and in the locker room that Pop simply cut him before the season ended. Jackson did have a long history going back to when he first came into the league so that makes his situation a bit different. Also Jackson had a supporting role. He wasn't a key figure that Pop had to rely on, if Jackson stunk it up, Pop would just sit him.

Smith is a bit of a headcase and would be a core piece if signed to a big deal. I don't see Pop ever relying heavily on anybody he can't fully trust. I think Smith is just as much of an anti Spur as Monta Ellis would be.

[tontoz]

Smith is only a head case when he has the ball outside the lane. On D he means business and he does a good job with the ball inside when he isn't trying to force a pass.

Pop would not let him lead the break or shoot all those jumpers, and Smith loves to do both. If Pop could break him of those two habits Smith would surely be an All-Star. Unfortunately that would be about as easy as driving a nail into wood with the palm of your hand.

It would certainly be entertaining to see what would happen.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The Spurs missed Stephen Jackson. They needed a guy who could break down the Heat without turning it over. Green's shot failed but I think Jackson could have given a huge lift,

[verbal8]

Well it looks like Rivers is going to the Clippers.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... M-Contract

It might make it harder for Garnett to be sent there, I think a straight up Garnett-Jordan trade would be easy to justify on basketball terms. However adding picks to a young player to acquire a player in his late 30s will be hard to support.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... -Violation

I think Boston is too far down the path of starting the teardown/rebuild, I don't see how they bring back Rivers and Pierce at this point. Which also means Garnett leaves.

Agreed, I think they are all gone. I'm just saying I'm not sure Stern would have gone on national radio and said what he said, only to allow it after all just because they space the moves out by a couple weeks/months. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.