Official Trade Thread XXIII (4/1/13 - present)

[gambitx777]

I guess it boils down to this:

Would we rather have Bennett or Derrick Williams (with just 2 years remaining on his contract)?

In my opinion, if Noel or Porter are on the board we should take him and be done with it. The only way I see a Williams trade go down is as follows:
1. Porter and Noel go in the top 2
2. At #3, we conclude that we don't really want Bennett so we draft Oladipo who is BPA.
3. At #9, a player we really like is still on the board (Zeller, maybe Len or Adams)
4. Minnesota offers Williams and #9 for the rights to Oladipo.

The point is, I don't think this trade happens until Minnesota is on the board at #9; and only if we had already taken Oladipo as BPA at #3; and only if there's a guy we still really like at #9.

Yeah. Something like that. Except I think it will be more complicated then that with one or both of Noel and Porter still on the board.

I think however this draft goes down, there is going to be lots of 2nd guessing. Its just that kind of draft. But that's usually the case anyway. Its really takes two years min in most drafts to even start to figure out who won the draft. And really it takes like 5 years to tell for sure.

yeah cuz you always have late bloomers

But again, I really do not think at 3 that Noel is even in our draft plans, or at least IMO he should not be.

I think it will be more likly if we really fall in love with CJM or Olynyk more than we fall in love with Porter and Len. Drop back for the guy we love, dump some of our busts, pick up D will and an extra pick. Im fine with that. Maybe D will is jsut starting to come in to his own, like i just said there are late bloomers.

[verbal8]

If Porter and Noel are gone 1 and 2, would New Orleans be a good trade partner? They have the 6th pick and are rumored to be acquiring the 13th from Dallas.

Picking Oladipo or McLemore would make it easier to trade Eric Gordon or weather him missing time with injuries.

It would give them a very good young core of a rookie SG, Davis and Anderson. Vasquez and Lopez would be strong supporting pieces. Marion(rumored to be in the deal for the 13th pick) or even Carter would provide a good stop-gap SF.

If it makes the deal more appealing, I would be willing to send them Ariza(in exchange for Marion or cap space).

At 6 Bennett is likely available. At least Zeller, Len or Oladipo/McLemore would have to be there.

[shrink]

Since there's been so much Derrick Williams discussion here (more than some want!), I thought I'd pass this along.

Williams trade unlikely

There has been a lot of talk about the Wolves trading Derrick Williams, who might have been playing the best of anyone on the roster at the end of last season. Does Taylor see any reason to move him?

“There are teams that have called us and asked us if we are going to trade him, but I think that everybody saw the same thing that you saw, including the coach,” Taylor said. “Once we got him out on the floor and he had a chance to play, he started to play better. We have to remember that he still a very young man and a player that has a lot of potential. So we may trade somebody on our team, but it’s not going to be [him], unless it really would help our team.”

When a GM says this at this time of the year, I never believe him. When it's an owner, I put a little more stock in it. Taylor needs his credibility for his business, not his hobby. I'm sure he could always go to the old mantra "Well we loved Williams but we had to trade him because it was too good an offer (even if it wasn't)" but I tend to think after this that it's more likely MIN hangs onto him. Flip said early on that he thinks Williams would be much better if he hadn't got jerked around for position, and Flip has also been lukewarm on a multi-year deal for Kirilenko. After a promising second half last year, Williams may be the Wolves starting small forward next season.

[Ruzious]

I think most Wiz fans are happy at that "news", because it'll put a halt on people posting trade ideas of Williams going to Washington. I wouldn't give up anything of much value to get him, and Minnesota likely found NBA teams also wouldn't. My feeling is that if Minny goes to a small ball team - with Love at center and Williams at PF - he's got a chance to be productive, but their defense is going to be problematic. They need to figure out what kind of team they want to be. Watching them last season - it looked like they have some parts - but there was no synergy.

[shrink]

I think most Wiz fans are happy at that "news", because it'll put a halt on people posting trade ideas of Williams going to Washington. I wouldn't give up anything of much value to get him, and Minnesota likely found NBA teams also wouldn't.

Actually that's not true.

1. Our inside source said CHA loves him:

- There is still serious interest in Derrick Williams in the Bobcats' camp. As mentioned above, they would like him included in a deal, either for the #4 pick, or as another deal once the new season is official (July 1st). Once again the Bobcats keep baiting their hook with Gerald Henderson and/or one of Portland/Detroit's 1st rounders owed as ground to start talking trade.

2. Sam Amico posted this:

Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO 3h
Cavs said to be intrigued with Timberwolves talks, but not "keen on" Wolves' 9th pick. I'll have more later on http://FOXSportsOhio.com

Hard to be intrigued to give up #1 without Williams if you don't like the #9

3. And Taylor referenced other team's interest in this quote.


We'll see that happens on draft night -- teams are probably going to want to see who's available at #9. But for now, I'm going to not spend time on Williams trades.

[Dat2U]

Rumors are just rumors. Could simply be the Wolves trying to drum up trade interest at the time.

I'd be skeptical of anything coming out before the draft. Misinformation is at it's highest level.

And no one puts out more worthless rumors than Sam Amico.

[nate33]

If he is the starting small forward, he is going to continue to disappoint. Williams is a power forward. Minnesota ultimately has to trade Williams or Love. There is no way around it. And the longer they wait to trade Williams, the more his value is going to drop as the number of years remaining on his rookie deal diminishes. Their best bet would be for Love to miss some games due to a minor injury and for Williams to play well. Trade him immediately after that.

The thing is, that scenario took place last year and Williams didn't overwhelm anybody when given an opportunity. He was competent, but not really noteworthy. I'm not sure if his trade value is going to get much better than it is right now.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, shrink you've been around long enough to know not to take "inside" draft talk at this time o year as gospel. I'm sure there is some interest in Williams. But if someone offered some serious value for him, they wouldn't take him off the market.

[LyricalRico]

1. Our inside source said CHA loves him:

- There is still serious interest in Derrick Williams in the Bobcats' camp. As mentioned above, they would like him included in a deal, either for the #4 pick, or as another deal once the new season is official (July 1st). Once again the Bobcats keep baiting their hook with Gerald Henderson and/or one of Portland/Detroit's 1st rounders owed as ground to start talking trade.

I actually posted a DWill+9 to CHA for the #4 (and perhaps some other filler) scenario in another thread, assuming that Minny HAD TO HAVE either Oladipo or McLemore and somebody droped to #9 that Charlotte liked.

[jivelikenice]

If he is the starting small forward, he is going to continue to disappoint. Williams is a power forward. Minnesota ultimately has to trade Williams or Love. There is no way around it. And the longer they wait to trade Williams, the more his value is going to drop as the number of years remaining on his rookie deal diminishes. Their best bet would be for Love to miss some games due to a minor injury and for Williams to play well. Trade him immediately after that.

The thing is, that scenario took place last year and Williams didn't overwhelm anybody when given an opportunity. He was competent, but not really noteworthy. I'm not sure if his trade value is going to get much better than it is right now.

I only saw Minnesota a few times last year and was underwhelmed by Williams. Statistically he seemed to get a little better as the season went on but I view those as emtpy stats. How did Minnesota use him? Did they play to his strengths?

[noworriesinmd]

#3 & Okafor to Chicago rumor for Deng. Would you do it even though this is the last year of Deng's contract?

[Soup's Uncle]

Barf town. No to Deng, for the love of God. IF Ernie does this, I may leap off of a bridge. A short bridge, but a bridge nonetheless.

[mohammed10]

#3 & Okafor to Chicago rumor for Deng. Would you do it even though this is the last year of Deng's contract?

I guarantee you gun violence is nowhere near over in DC if this trade happens...

[nate33]

If he is the starting small forward, he is going to continue to disappoint. Williams is a power forward. Minnesota ultimately has to trade Williams or Love. There is no way around it. And the longer they wait to trade Williams, the more his value is going to drop as the number of years remaining on his rookie deal diminishes. Their best bet would be for Love to miss some games due to a minor injury and for Williams to play well. Trade him immediately after that.

The thing is, that scenario took place last year and Williams didn't overwhelm anybody when given an opportunity. He was competent, but not really noteworthy. I'm not sure if his trade value is going to get much better than it is right now.

I only saw Minnesota a few times last year and was underwhelmed by Williams. Statistically he seemed to get a little better as the season went on but I view those as emtpy stats. How did Minnesota use him? Did they play to his strengths?

Yes. Empty stats. Poor defense. Inefficient offense. Minnesota couldn't win with him as a primary scorer and he doesn't defend well enough to be a role player.

[soxfan2003]

Celtic fan here....how about Jeff Green plus #16 for the #3 pick and Okafor.

Pros for Jeff Green.
1)On very reasonable deal for the next 2 years with a player option for the 3rd year in which he will (probably) opt out if he keeps up his level of play from last year after Rondo went out.
2) Strong second half of the season.
3) Strong playoffs. Arguably Celtics best player in the playoffs last year. It was either him or KG without anyone else a close third.
4) Realistically isn't a number 1 or number 2 player on the typical title contender, but last year he did show me enough that I could see him as the 3rd best player on a true contender. He has now grown from his OKC days.
5) Washington area roots from having gone to school in Georgetown.
6) Started showing he might be able to hit 3's last year and just modest growth in his game allowed him to arguably play the best basketball of his career in the second half and in the playoffs.
7) still not that old. Will be turning 27 before next season.

Cons
1) very reasonable salary but still not as cheap as the number 3 pick in the draft
2) not good enough to be a title contender teams number 1 or number 2 player. (I do believe he could be a title contenders number 2 scorer, however).

Why would the Celtics do it?
1) gamble on getting a younger cost controlled player for 4 years.
2) helps tank for Andrew Wiggins and pretty much ensures the Wizards will have a better record then the Celtics next year which will probably happen anyways if KG/PP are gone.
3) perhaps buyout Okafor to help the tanking.

[Upper Decker]

4) Realistically isn't a number 1 or number 2 player on the typical title contender, but last year he did show me enough that I could see him as the 3rd best player on a true contender. He has now grown from his OKC days.

This kills any desire for Green when you consider Wizards are giving up a high pick, their best defensive player, and eliminating all future cap space. You said it yourself. Jeff Green doesn't move the needle, but the package your looking for, and the amount of future resources tied to Green going forward, indicate he's a prime time player.

This is less enticing than a trade for Derrick Williams and I LOATHE Derrick Williams.

[nate33]

Celtic fan here....how about Jeff Green plus #16 for the #3 pick and Okafor.

Pros for Jeff Green.
1)On very reasonable deal for the next 2 years with a player option for the 3rd year in which he will (probably) opt out if he keeps up his level of play from last year after Rondo went out.
2) Strong second half of the season.
3) Strong playoffs. Arguably Celtics best player in the playoffs last year. It was either him or KG without anyone else a close third.
4) Realistically isn't a number 1 or number 2 player on the typical title contender, but last year he did show me enough that I could see him as the 3rd best player on a true contender. He has now grown from his OKC days.
5) Washington area roots from having gone to school in Georgetown.
6) Started showing he might be able to hit 3's last year and just modest growth in his game allowed him to arguably play the best basketball of his career in the second half and in the playoffs.
7) still not that old. Will be turning 27 before next season.

Cons
1) very reasonable salary but still not as cheap as the number 3 pick in the draft
2) not good enough to be a title contender teams number 1 or number 2 player. (I do believe he could be a title contenders number 2 scorer, however).

Why would the Celtics do it?
1) gamble on getting a younger cost controlled player for 4 years.
2) helps tank for Andrew Wiggins and pretty much ensures the Wizards will have a better record then the Celtics next year which will probably happen anyways if KG/PP are gone.
3) perhaps buyout Okafor to help the tanking.

It's not awful. My biggest concern is Jeff Green's track record. It's highly unusual for a player to make a huge leap in production at age 26. I suspect that it's mostly just a low sample size fluke and that he is really the same guy that has posted a PER in the 14-15 range over most of his career, not the guy who posted a PER of 18.4 post All Star Break last season.

This is better than the awful Luol Deng deal that is rumored, but it's still not good enough for me. If we could be sure we'd be getting that 18.4 PER guy, I'd definitely consider it. I just don't think it's likely. I'd rather take my chances with Porter or Oladipo at #3.

[soxfan2003]

Celtic fan here....how about Jeff Green plus #16 for the #3 pick and Okafor.

Pros for Jeff Green.
1)On very reasonable deal for the next 2 years with a player option for the 3rd year in which he will (probably) opt out if he keeps up his level of play from last year after Rondo went out.
2) Strong second half of the season.
3) Strong playoffs. Arguably Celtics best player in the playoffs last year. It was either him or KG without anyone else a close third.
4) Realistically isn't a number 1 or number 2 player on the typical title contender, but last year he did show me enough that I could see him as the 3rd best player on a true contender. He has now grown from his OKC days.
5) Washington area roots from having gone to school in Georgetown.
6) Started showing he might be able to hit 3's last year and just modest growth in his game allowed him to arguably play the best basketball of his career in the second half and in the playoffs.
7) still not that old. Will be turning 27 before next season.

Cons
1) very reasonable salary but still not as cheap as the number 3 pick in the draft
2) not good enough to be a title contender teams number 1 or number 2 player. (I do believe he could be a title contenders number 2 scorer, however).

Why would the Celtics do it?
1) gamble on getting a younger cost controlled player for 4 years.
2) helps tank for Andrew Wiggins and pretty much ensures the Wizards will have a better record then the Celtics next year which will probably happen anyways if KG/PP are gone.
3) perhaps buyout Okafor to help the tanking.

It's not awful. My biggest concern is Jeff Green's track record. It's highly unusual for a player to make a huge leap in production at age 26. I suspect that it's mostly just a low sample size fluke and that he is really the same guy that has posted a PER in the 14-15 range over most of his career, not the guy who posted a PER of 18.4 post All Star Break last season.

This is better than the awful Luol Deng deal that is rumored, but it's still not good enough for me. If we could be sure we'd be getting that 18.4 PER guy, I'd definitely consider it. I just don't think it's likely. I'd rather take my chances with Porter or Oladipo at #3.

I suspect the Wizards would be getting a PER 17 player since I'm convinced his growth of a player is very real but he won't be quite as hot from 3 point land as the second half of the season suggest.... I honestly think Green's development was held back by the trade to Boston and then the heart condition. Rondo in the first half of the year wasn't looking for Green much at all or anyone not named PP/KG and the Celtics offense didn't give him much opportunity to play to his strengths. I really blame Rondo and Rivers for that. He was also working his way back from missing an entire season and the heart surgery. And if you think about it, even OKC wasn't great for his development since Durant, Harden and Westbrook are all more talented but their is no crime in that. KG really gave Green a lot of confidence and I think it sticks with him until he athletically declines to a noticeable degree.

I don't pretend to have watched college basketball much at all this past season but just based upon reading up on his Oladipo is the player I sort of wanted the Celtics to select with the 3rd pick. It will be interesting to see where he goes. He would be a pretty good pick for the Wizards to pair with Wall and Beal.

[soxfan2003]

4) Realistically isn't a number 1 or number 2 player on the typical title contender, but last year he did show me enough that I could see him as the 3rd best player on a true contender. He has now grown from his OKC days.

This kills any desire for Green when you consider Wizards are giving up a high pick, their best defensive player, and eliminating all future cap space. You said it yourself. Jeff Green doesn't move the needle, but the package your looking for, and the amount of future resources tied to Green going forward, indicate he's a prime time player.

This is less enticing than a trade for Derrick Williams and I LOATHE Derrick Williams.

I think its probably a somewhat fair trade but not one that is in the Wizards interests if that makes sense. (This assumes that perhaps Okafor could be replaced by an inferior expiring player without value as a player) This is a weaker then expected draft so #16 and Green I would think would make more sense for a team like Memphis that should be trying to contend for a championship right now.

In all honesty, I wouldn't do this trade as the Wizards gm but I'd do it so much faster then a Deng trade its not even funny. I do actually think Green would move the needle at least a moderate amount and that is pretty much the only reason I want him gone plus I think its a waste to have him on the Celtics when the team may be trying to lose for a few more years. If you watched the Celtics vs Miami with Rondo out and saw Green perform in that nationally televised game that Miami really did come to play, you sort of saw his growth as a player.

If It could be worked out so Washington keeps Okafor I'd be all for that.

[TGW]

Jeff Green isn't worth a top 5 pick....in any draft.

My counteroffer would be Ariza for Jeff Green. No picks involved.