Paul and Dwight want to team up!!

[tcorbin]

I could be mistaken, but I believe we would have to trade Horford before or during the draft in order to get the pick this year like what you are saying. And that would also mean having prior knowledge that Howard and Paul are definitely coming. Technically speaking, because nothing can happen before July 1, we could still have the rug pulled out from under us and have absolutely nothing but rookies left to show for it. That is NOT where I want to be! So, I want to know why you would trade our best asset without having something in writing that CP3/DH will sign on July 1?

No, you can do a trade after the draft. For example:

Roy Hibbert was drafted on June 26, 2008 by Toronto, and then traded to Indiana on July 9, 2008.

So for instance, lets say hypothetically Cleveland drafts McLemore, Noel, Otto, Bennett, Len, Zeller, or Oladipo.... Cleveland can trade their draft rights to who ever they drafted even after July 1.

You are wrong and Jag is right, that trade was done during the draft it just did not become official until the 9th which is the exact end of the NBA moratorium where all trades and signings can actually occur (that should of been the biggest hint). In addition, Toronto selected Hibbert for the Pacers as a condition of the trade.

No, you are wrong on both accounts..... just look at Jeremy Lamb, he was drafted on June 28, 2012, and then traded on October 27, 2012

[MaceCase]

No, you can do a trade after the draft. For example:

Roy Hibbert was drafted on June 26, 2008 by Toronto, and then traded to Indiana on July 9, 2008.

So for instance, lets say hypothetically Cleveland drafts McLemore, Noel, Otto, Bennett, Len, Zeller, or Oladipo.... Cleveland can trade their draft rights to who ever they drafted even after July 1.

You are wrong and Jag is right, that trade was done during the draft it just did not become official until the 9th which is the exact end of the NBA moratorium where all trades and signings can actually occur (that should of been the biggest hint). In addition, Toronto selected Hibbert for the Pacers as a condition of the trade.

No, you are wrong on both accounts..... just look at Jeremy Lamb, he was drafted on June 28, 2012, and then traded on October 27, 2012

................And Thomas Robinson was drafted on June 28th and traded on February 20th the following year........Your point? You have none.....unless you think that OKC had agreed to trade Harden and change for Lamb during the draft but the horse and buggy just took a lil too long to get the news to the league office in Manhattan.

Also, when does free agency start again? July 1st with players actually being able to be signed on the 10th this year, right? How many months away is October from July or June for that matter? Are Dwight, Paul and West waiting 3-4 months for Horford's salary to be cleared to sign in Atlanta? No, I didn't think so.

Lamb was signed by the Rockets FYI, played Summer League and even preseason for them so he was an actual salaried member of their roster when traded.

Not a pick.

Not rights to a selection.

Just your everyday garden variety NBA player that can be traded.

Great post though, sure it sounded great in your head.

[myrak433]

If Paul wants to play with West so badly then he'll be playing in Indiana next season or instead of chasing after Garnett and Doc Rivers, the Clippers would instead go after the more easily acquirable West themselves.

If Paul is genuinely concerned about winning a championship now or in the future he would recognize that the Hawks with Horford>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greatly exceeds the Hawks with West. If he just wants to be able to throw tea parties with all of his best buds then the Hawks could quite frankly deal without any such players. They'll just be bitching in a years time any way talking about that they need more help all while West would be sitting on 10 mil worth of salary by his lonesome. We saw the Lakers dramatically fail in their first year and although the Heat couldn't win it all themselves in their first season together they also didn't have major resources tied up into well past their prime role players. Those players sign for a vet min or MLE not having core members traded off so they can get 10 fricking million.

If West truly is a sticking point for him and at that price then boo hoo, not like Paul will be getting much further in the playoffs himself especially not if he wants to play Jr. GM.

How did Horford do against West in the playoffs???? if my memory serves me right, West and his team advanced and Horford and his team went home. so how exactly is Hawks better with Horford than with West? their averages for the last three seasons are similar Horford 14 ppg 8 rpg, West 15ppg 7 rpg. I know that West is alot older than Horford but he should have at least 3 more good seasons in him, his game is not predicated on athletism but it is based off of strenth and skill. he should be just as strong and skilled in 2017 as his is now. 3 years is all we need we would win a championship with this team....... if not we would come closer than we have ever been. with Horford alone we would never even come close. so please take you Hoford loving glasses off and just think for a minute. do you want what we have been for the last 7 years, or do you want to be better?


now if we are not getting CP3 and Howard in no way shape or form would I advocate trading Horford.

[azuresou1]

You're still missing the main points.

A) There is no guarantee CP3 and Dwight will come if we acquire West, even if they give their word. Their word is not legally binding, there is a high likelihood that CP3 and Dwight would still blow us off even if we signed West and dumped Horford.
B) Horford is a better player than West, far better if you count the long haul. We should make moves for basketball reasons, not because it pleases players (who aren't even on our team right now). I am against inmates running the asylum, and know that Ferry has firsthand experience on what that's like.

[tcorbin]

You're still missing the main points.

A) There is no guarantee CP3 and Dwight will come if we acquire West, even if they give their word. Their word is not legally binding, there is a high likelihood that CP3 and Dwight would still blow us off even if we signed West and dumped Horford.
B) Horford is a better player than West, far better if you count the long haul. We should make moves for basketball reasons, not because it pleases players (who aren't even on our team right now). I am against inmates running the asylum, and know that Ferry has firsthand experience on what that's like.

And who said that moves had to be made right now?!?!?!?

[tcorbin]

If Paul wants to play with West so badly then he'll be playing in Indiana next season or instead of chasing after Garnett and Doc Rivers, the Clippers would instead go after the more easily acquirable West themselves.

If Paul is genuinely concerned about winning a championship now or in the future he would recognize that the Hawks with Horford>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greatly exceeds the Hawks with West. If he just wants to be able to throw tea parties with all of his best buds then the Hawks could quite frankly deal without any such players. They'll just be bitching in a years time any way talking about that they need more help all while West would be sitting on 10 mil worth of salary by his lonesome. We saw the Lakers dramatically fail in their first year and although the Heat couldn't win it all themselves in their first season together they also didn't have major resources tied up into well past their prime role players. Those players sign for a vet min or MLE not having core members traded off so they can get 10 fricking million.

If West truly is a sticking point for him and at that price then boo hoo, not like Paul will be getting much further in the playoffs himself especially not if he wants to play Jr. GM.

How did Horford do against West in the playoffs???? if my memory serves me right, West and his team advanced and Horford and his team went home. so how exactly is Hawks better with Horford than with West? their averages for the last three seasons are similar Horford 14 ppg 8 rpg, West 15ppg 7 rpg. I know that West is alot older than Horford but he should have at least 3 more good seasons in him, his game is not predicated on athletism but it is based off of strenth and skill. he should be just as strong and skilled in 2017 as his is now. 3 years is all we need we would win a championship with this team....... if not we would come closer than we have ever been. with Horford alone we would never even come close. so please take you Hoford loving glasses off and just think for a minute. do you want what we have been for the last 7 years, or do you want to be better?


now if we are not getting CP3 and Howard in no way shape or form would I advocate trading Horford.

This

[azuresou1]

You're still missing the main points.

A) There is no guarantee CP3 and Dwight will come if we acquire West, even if they give their word. Their word is not legally binding, there is a high likelihood that CP3 and Dwight would still blow us off even if we signed West and dumped Horford.
B) Horford is a better player than West, far better if you count the long haul. We should make moves for basketball reasons, not because it pleases players (who aren't even on our team right now). I am against inmates running the asylum, and know that Ferry has firsthand experience on what that's like.

And who said that moves had to be made right now?!?!?!?

It doesn't matter when the moves are made. Until Paul and Dwight put pen to paper and sign the contract, their word is not legally binding.

Repeatedly I've pointed to the Baron Davis/Elton Brand fiasco, and repeatedly you've ignored it. I'm going to assume ignorance on your part rather than a willful attempt to evade the point, so I'll provide you with a link:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3625 ... s-stranded

[tcorbin]

You're still missing the main points.

A) There is no guarantee CP3 and Dwight will come if we acquire West, even if they give their word. Their word is not legally binding, there is a high likelihood that CP3 and Dwight would still blow us off even if we signed West and dumped Horford.
B) Horford is a better player than West, far better if you count the long haul. We should make moves for basketball reasons, not because it pleases players (who aren't even on our team right now). I am against inmates running the asylum, and know that Ferry has firsthand experience on what that's like.

And who said that moves had to be made right now?!?!?!?

It doesn't matter when the moves are made. Until Paul and Dwight put pen to paper and sign the contract, their word is not legally binding.

Repeatedly I've pointed to the Baron Davis/Elton Brand fiasco, and repeatedly you've ignored it. I'm going to assume ignorance on your part rather than a willful attempt to evade the point, so I'll provide you with a link:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3625 ... s-stranded

Ya, i've ignored it because with Baron and Elton, they both bolted to go to a new team, Baron bolted the GSW, and Elton bolted the Clippers.... which is what we want from Paul and Howard

so why are chosing to ignore the Grant Hill/TMac situation? or the Wade/Lebron/Bosh fiasco???.... you are just ignorant

[td00]

Seeing how the Clips are trying to keep CP3 and knowing that D12 is the missing piece for CP3 to stay, the Clips have simply lots of rumors going at the same time.

-Clips shooting for Doc and KG. They take away 2 key pieces plus a good portion of their immediate future.
-Clips trying to get D12.

I don't think the Lakers do any team any favors with a S&T. D12 will get to walk while the Clips will want something in return to allow the S&T.

For some reason, I like DF's chances with this duo. The question is how bad does D12 want to unite with CP3?
I tend to think its serious because both know they don't have have enough ammo in their current state.

DF has a chance to bump ATL to the top of the offseason chatter with a huge division rivalry going forward. Listen, we finished 22 very far games behind last season in our division. Until we get a handle on how to deal with MIA (SAS is showing how to so far), then we will continue to lanquish behind the Heat with little buzz in this city.

DF needs to make a buzz this offseason and anti-Sund.

[MaceCase]

Ah, we have all the makings of a great argument here.

How did Horford do against West in the playoffs???? if my memory serves me right, West and his team advanced and Horford and his team went home. so how exactly is Hawks better with Horford than with West?

Step 1:
Attribute the success of a team advancing to their third best player. I'm sure West's 16 and 6 had more to do with Indiana advancing past Atlanta than George averaging 19, 10 and 5 plus Hibbert's 15 and 9. I definitely see how he outplayed Al's 17, 9 and 3 too.

their averages for the last three seasons are similar Horford 14 ppg 8 rpg, West 15ppg 7 rpg. I know that West is alot older than Horford but he should have at least 3 more good seasons in him, his game is not predicated on athletism but it is based off of strenth and skill. he should be just as strong and skilled in 2017 as his is now. 3 years is all we need we would win a championship with this team....... if not we would come closer than we have ever been.

Step 2:
Selective stat usage. Pick an arbitrary 3 year period including a season that Horford only played 11 games and then fudge the math to make his numbers look worse. Horford averaged 15 and 9 (most people would round 8.8 up) to West's 16 and 7 over the past 3 seasons, 16 points himself if you want to use his last three full seasons. Let's also not factor into the discussion that West's production has been ticking downwards over this period while Horford's has been ticking upwards either as clearly this can't be indicative of either player declining or improving due to their age.

with Horford alone we would never even come close. so please take you Hoford loving glasses off and just think for a minute. do you want what we have been for the last 7 years, or do you want to be better?

Step 3:

This is actually a double whammy of creating a strawman while also accusing your opponent of being completely biased. I'm sure it's absolutely sensible to continue on with the argument that it is not enough for Chris Paul to want to play with Dwight Howard but David West must also be a part of that trio and at an exorbitant amount no less. In fact let's take this even further to its illogical conclusion and surmise that Paul's interest of playing with Dwight is only piqued by David West being attached and that he won't consider any team unless they can make that happen. Ah, perfect! Once that stupidity is established we can now make a legitimate argument that Al Horford is standing in the way of the Hawks ever improving. This is sensible.........somewhere.

[ReasonablySober]

Ah, we have all the makings of a great argument here.

How did Horford do against West in the playoffs???? if my memory serves me right, West and his team advanced and Horford and his team went home. so how exactly is Hawks better with Horford than with West?

Step 1:
Attribute the success of a team advancing to their third best player. I'm sure West's 16 and 6 had more to do with Indiana advancing past Atlanta than George averaging 19, 10 and 5 plus Hibbert's 15 and 9. I definitely see how he outplayed Al's 17, 9 and 3 too.

their averages for the last three seasons are similar Horford 14 ppg 8 rpg, West 15ppg 7 rpg. I know that West is alot older than Horford but he should have at least 3 more good seasons in him, his game is not predicated on athletism but it is based off of strenth and skill. he should be just as strong and skilled in 2017 as his is now. 3 years is all we need we would win a championship with this team....... if not we would come closer than we have ever been.

Step 2:
Selective stat usage. Pick an arbitrary 3 year period including a season that Horford only played 11 games and then fudge the math to make his numbers look worse. Horford averaged 15 and 9 (most people would round 8.8 up) to West's 16 and 7 over the past 3 seasons, 16 points himself if you want to use his last three full seasons. Let's also not factor into the discussion that West's production has been ticking downwards over this period while Horford's has been ticking upwards either as clearly this can't be indicative of either player declining or improving due to their age.

with Horford alone we would never even come close. so please take you Hoford loving glasses off and just think for a minute. do you want what we have been for the last 7 years, or do you want to be better?

Step 3:

This is actually a double whammy of creating a strawman while also accusing your opponent of being completely biased. I'm sure it's absolutely sensible to continue on with the argument that it is not enough for Chris Paul to want to play with Dwight Howard but David West must also be a part of that trio and at an exorbitant amount no less. In fact let's take this even further to its illogical conclusion and surmise that Paul's interest of playing with Dwight is only piqued by David West being attached and that he won't consider any team unless they can make that happen. Ah, perfect! Once that stupidity is established we can now make a legitimate argument that Al Horford is standing in the way of the Hawks ever improving. This is sensible.........somewhere.

Just lurking. But picking on a person who doesn't use proper caps aside...I like this post plenty. Good stuff.

[mattlanta]

It's hard to imagine seeing the state of the Hawks' fanbase as it is right now (judging from the amount that show up during our regular home games), but think about how much worse of a state morale-wise our fans would be in if we lose out on one or the other. And let's be realistic guys, even though it looks like the perfect case scenario for all of us doesn't mean it's the same for either of the two. I've already begun my personal preparations for the let down that will ensue when Chris Paul goes back to the Clippers, and Howard either goes back to the Lakers or goes to the Rockets.

[parson]

^Oh, I'm pretty convinced that Howard and Paul don't want to come here - and will only do so as a last resort. If you consider the money they'd make by staying in LA - more salary and endorsements - you'd have to imagine that their families are screaming, "You're going to give up HOW much money!" Seriously, we might say a couple of million is no big deal, but that's more than 33,000 manicures and pedicures.

But it's fun to dream...

[tonegully757]

IF they come they come, if they dont, they dont.

I can say this tho. As a lifetime Hawks fan I dont want Howard or Paul coming here on the downside of their careers

[Jamaaliver]

I can say this tho. As a lifetime Hawks fan I dont want Howard or Paul coming here on the downside of their careers

Like KG to Boston n the twilight of his career. Or Shaq to Miami in the twilight of his career.
Or Kidd to Dallas in the twilight of his career. Or Ray Allen to Miami in the twilight of his career.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I can say this tho. As a lifetime Hawks fan I dont want Howard or Paul coming here on the downside of their careers

Like KG to Boston n the twilight of his career. Or Shaq to Miami in the twilight of his career.
Or Kidd to Dallas in the twilight of his career. Or Ray Allen to Miami in the twilight of his career.

To be fair, kg and Shaq weren't highly reliant on athleticism. The same can be said about Kidd and Allen. They just utilized it to further their game. Dwight is all athleticism.

[Jamaaliver]

To be fair, kg and Shaq weren't highly reliant on athleticism. The same can be said about Kidd and Allen. They just utilized it to further their game. Dwight is all athleticism.

Fair enough. But rebounding and shot blocking are skills that tend to survive with age.

[D21]

IF they come they come, if they dont, they dont.

I can say this tho. As a lifetime Hawks fan I dont want Howard or Paul coming here on the downside of their careers

IMHO, they are not on the downside, and would perform for years, but what I dislike the more is that it would pair two of the best divas and whiners, and I prefer not imagine what it would be if you succeed to put them with Josh.

I can't stand MIA mainly because of that, their are always with this "if they steal the ball from us, they had make a foul" or "I didn't make that shot, so there was a foul" attitude, and it's a pain to watch so talented players acting like that.

[tonegully757]

Im talking about Howard's dad stating that he would like to play in Atlanta when he finishes his career. If he cant come here in his prime, i dont want him.
Dwight has no skilled moves. He better hurry up and get some.