Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII

[TGW]

Oh, and honestly, what is really seperating Porter, from say a guy like Tony Snell who has the same standing reach, better shooting numbers (slightly less percentage from 3, but way more attempts per game, Snell also shoots 7% better at the FT line)? Snell is the better athlete and will be available way later.

Dude, you have to kidding. Tony Snell? That kid literally does one thing decently, and that's shoot. Porter does pretty much everything better than Snell. To think Snell is anywhere near Porter's level suggests that you've never seen Snell play, because he's a mediocre player at best, and it'll be a miracle if he were to make any impact in the NBA.

[queridiculo]

Love Oladipo, but he's not a SF, and Oladipo's refusal to work out for the Wizards pretty much tells you that he sees himself as a SG in this league.

Would love to him on the team, but unless we get some crazy offer for Beal, he'd be a waste with our pick.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

I think porter has a max potential of probably a Shawn Marion, I think porter will be much better than MKG, because porters offence really is not that bad and hes a better defender. You say hes not really great at any one thing, but I do not think his stats will take a dip i think i will stick the same or even get better.

No one is going to trade for Ves and his $4 million salary.

They will because he is basically expiring because he has a team option.

I'm hoping Otto Porter can be the Wizards version of Nicolas Batum.

[mhd]

I think porter has a max potential of probably a Shawn Marion, I think porter will be much better than MKG, because porters offence really is not that bad and hes a better defender. You say hes not really great at any one thing, but I do not think his stats will take a dip i think i will stick the same or even get better.

No one is going to trade for Ves and his $4 million salary.

They will because he is basically expiring because he has a team option.

Porter's not even in the same realm as an athlete that Matrix is. Matrix was NBA-ready day one. He was an elite defender who could put an honest defensive effort against Tim Duncan. He was also an elite running option. I don't see any comparisons between Porter and Marion.

Porter's best bet is a way-less athletic (and I emphasize way less) Derrick Mckey.

[hands11]

Yes he averaged 16 as their best player. Is he a better offensive player than Beal and Wall? Nene? I don't think so.
I'm actually not saying don't draft him. He works great in our starting 5 BECAUSE he's a good 4th option and we already have Wall, Beal, and Nene.
The big problem is what happens when Wall is off the court? Our 2nd team is awful and I don't think Porter is good enough offensively to help that. I think Bennett is a better fit.

We would be basically drafting Trevor A with a better personality that sees himself as part of the future for 4M, then 4.5M, then some option years. So maybe we save some money in the out years and we don't have to worry if Trevor A wants to stick around which we have to assume he doesn't. I think he wants to move back West.

Except he won't mind playing behind Webster for a year plus and Webster won't mind stepping back once he is ready.

He is a solid young man. A local hero. Easy tick to sell. No one is going to hate the pick. He will be the same age a Wall and Beal. Get some Georgetown blood on the team. Get that connection going for the future. Except that means we get back involved with that A hole rep that GTown is in bed with. Joy.

Its not a terrible play, but I still like other options as well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm still trying to figure out what the catch is with Seth Curry. For him not to be on mock drafts with his advanced stats while playing elite competition for a good school is really mind bogling to me.

Not an NBA athlete. Frail and can't stay healthy. His stats are good, but not eye popping.

I think his best case scenario is as a specialist in the NBA. I don't think he's a regular rotation player though.

Dat is right, per usual.

OTOH, his dad and his brother aren't great athletes. Also, Coach K said Seth might have led the country in scoring if not for the injuries.

Coincidentally, this is the first post I read after just signing on-- I just had the thought Seth Curry is at least worthy of a round 2 pick. This convo is like confirmation of my thought.

[hands11]

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25/source-bobcats-shopping-kidd-gilcrest-to-draft-otto-porter/ It also says the wizards are determind to draft Bennett.

Charlotte has targeted Harrison Barnes of the Warriors as the player they would most like to acquire, but a straight-up offer of Kidd-Gilchrist would not be enough.

Wow

I told you all so. MkG was a bad pick. Like OP I believe people got too attached to players on certain teams, not from talent wise perspective ,but picked them off of pure emotional attachment .

I was a big no the entire way on MKG. But lots of folks here loved him for our pick.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I honestly don't want porter. I'd rather take Len, mclemore, or oladipo over him. Is rather do the swill trade down and take zeller, shabaaz, or olynyk over him

I agree, (except with Shabazz), even though I am very confident Otto is going to be a good NBA player.

Trading down seems favorable this draft.

[Kanyewest]

Simmons interviewed Porter and said he was linked to Detroit--seems like he's barely even been following these prospects beyond scuttlebutt.

And I lost respect for Ford a long time ago in terms of his analysis. Only ESPN guy I like these days is Jay Bilas.

Actually I thought it was Jalen Rose who said that he was linked to Detroit because he wanted him there because he is from Detroit. From what I remember, Simmons thought there was no chance that he lasts that long in the draft.

[Upper Decker]

I don't think I've really given my take on the draft, so with two days left here goes...

Simply put I HATE EVERYTHING about it. I think it's easily going to be the worst draft since 2000 and perhaps in history. I love how Chad Ford says it's not a great draft because it doesn't have a franchise guy, or a sure-fire all-star, but it has tons of depth...I SEE NO DEPTH IN THIS DRAFT. After the big 6 (Noel, Oladipo, Porter, McLemore, Bennett and Len) you have 5 decent guys (Burke, McCullom, MCW, KCP, Zeller) followed by a bunch of international guys who have no experience against quality competition and NCAA guys who *might* become bench rotation guys, but I don't see any sure bet starters after the projected 11 in the entire draft. After the top 11 I see so many significant warts with every single player that it's easier to project how they'll fail in the NBA rather than how they'll be anything other than low rent contributors. One or two will pop, because they always do, but for anyone, even professionals, to say with certainty who will pop from 12-60 is fooling themselves.

In fact, amongst the top 11 I can't think of a draft class with worse cast. Cleveland has said repeatedly that no player they take at #1 will start for them next year. That's insane. When was the last draft where the #1 overall pick wasn't a day one starter? If you put a gun to my head and made me say who will be starting in 3 years the only certain starters I can think of are Porter, Zeller (depending on where he's drafted), Oladipo, and Noel. And I don't think any of them are multiple time all-stars. Bennett may start, but Beasley and Williams aren't starters. Burke may start, but Marcus Williams and DJ Augustine flamed out, and both were very similar prospects. MCW can't shoot. McCullum will settle in as a 3rd guard in a rotation. McLemore will settle in as the next Kansas high lotto bust and Len could be anything from a better defensive Brook Lopez to Michael Doleac.

In the end if the Wizards can come away with a league average starter in this draft I'd consider it a success. But with that said, I have no hopes of this pick being a player that will end up being anything more than "just a guy". Sad but true.

[hands11]

Love Oladipo, but he's not a SF, and Oladipo's refusal to work out for the Wizards pretty much tells you that he sees himself as a SG in this league.

Would love to him on the team, but unless we get some crazy offer for Beal, he'd be a waste with our pick.

You don't move Beal for him. You just add him.

In this draft, pretty much anyone top 5 isn't worth the contract that comes with that pick. VO is one of the player that could reach near that value.

You pick him, and then draft him right away or us him a year and trade him. You can do the same thing with Burke and it actually works a little better because he is a PG that can also shoot.

Its a value play.

[Kanyewest]

I don't think I've really given my take on the draft, so with two days left here goes...

Simply put I HATE EVERYTHING about it. I think it's easily going to be the worst draft since 2000 and perhaps in history. I love how Chad Ford says it's not a great draft because it doesn't have a franchise guy, or a sure-fire all-star, but it has tons of depth...I SEE NO DEPTH IN THIS DRAFT. After the big 6 (Noel, Oladipo, Porter, McLemore, Bennett and Len) you have 5 decent guys (Burke, McCullom, MCW, KCP, Zeller) followed by a bunch of international guys who have no experience against quality competition and NCAA guys who *might* become bench rotation guys, but I don't see any sure bet starters after the projected 11 in the entire draft. After the top 11 I see so many significant warts with every single player that it's easier to project how they'll fail in the NBA rather than how they'll be anything other than low rent contributors. One or two will pop, because they always do, but for anyone, even professionals, to say with certainty who will pop from 12-60 is fooling themselves.

In fact, amongst the top 11 I can't think of a draft class with worse cast. Cleveland has said repeatedly that no player they take at #1 will start for them next year. That's insane. When was the last draft where the #1 overall pick wasn't a day one starter? If you put a gun to my head and made me say who will be starting in 3 years the only certain starters I can think of are Porter, Zeller (depending on where he's drafted), Oladipo, and Noel. And I don't think any of them are multiple time all-stars. Bennett may start, but Beasley and Williams aren't starters. Burke may start, but Marcus Williams and DJ Augustine flamed out, and both were very similar prospects. MCW can't shoot. McCullum will settle in as a 3rd guard in a rotation. McLemore will settle in as the next Kansas high lotto bust and Len could be anything from a better defensive Brook Lopez to Michael Doleac.

In the end if the Wizards can come away with a league average starter in this draft I'd consider it a success. But with that said, I have no hopes of this pick being a player that will end up being anything more than "just a guy". Sad but true.

Kwame Brown.

[DCZards]

You don't move Beal for him. You just add him.

In this draft, pretty much anyone top 5 isn't worth the contract that comes with that pick. VO is one of the player that could reach near that value.

You pick him, and then draft him right away or us him a year and trade him. You can do the same thing with Burke and it actually works a little better because he is a PG that can also shoot.

Its a value play.

But what if VO or Burke don't turn out to be that hot trade commodity that you think they will be, especially since they won't get a ton of minutes as backups to Beal and Wall so it will be hard to showcase them. You might end up getting pennies on the dollar when you try to trade whichever one you draft. You don't take that risk that with the third pick in the draft. With that high a pick, you need to try to draft a player who will be a core piece for many years and an eventual starter.

[hands11]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2013/6/25 ... -big-board

Mike ended where I have been saying with his top picks, except he has more faith in Noels health then I do.

I still don't think Noel plays this year. After that, it should be interesting to see how he manages as a center with no offense when A Davis needed to more to PF his first year.

I'll admit, Noel is intriguing as a long term prospect if he can stay healthy. I just don't like the risk.

[hands11]

I don't think I've really given my take on the draft, so with two days left here goes...

Simply put I HATE EVERYTHING about it. I think it's easily going to be the worst draft since 2000 and perhaps in history. I love how Chad Ford says it's not a great draft because it doesn't have a franchise guy, or a sure-fire all-star, but it has tons of depth...I SEE NO DEPTH IN THIS DRAFT. After the big 6 (Noel, Oladipo, Porter, McLemore, Bennett and Len) you have 5 decent guys (Burke, McCullom, MCW, KCP, Zeller) followed by a bunch of international guys who have no experience against quality competition and NCAA guys who *might* become bench rotation guys, but I don't see any sure bet starters after the projected 11 in the entire draft. After the top 11 I see so many significant warts with every single player that it's easier to project how they'll fail in the NBA rather than how they'll be anything other than low rent contributors. One or two will pop, because they always do, but for anyone, even professionals, to say with certainty who will pop from 12-60 is fooling themselves.

In fact, amongst the top 11 I can't think of a draft class with worse cast. Cleveland has said repeatedly that no player they take at #1 will start for them next year. That's insane. When was the last draft where the #1 overall pick wasn't a day one starter? If you put a gun to my head and made me say who will be starting in 3 years the only certain starters I can think of are Porter, Zeller (depending on where he's drafted), Oladipo, and Noel. And I don't think any of them are multiple time all-stars. Bennett may start, but Beasley and Williams aren't starters. Burke may start, but Marcus Williams and DJ Augustine flamed out, and both were very similar prospects. MCW can't shoot. McCullum will settle in as a 3rd guard in a rotation. McLemore will settle in as the next Kansas high lotto bust and Len could be anything from a better defensive Brook Lopez to Michael Doleac.

In the end if the Wizards can come away with a league average starter in this draft I'd consider it a success. But with that said, I have no hopes of this pick being a player that will end up being anything more than "just a guy". Sad but true.

Well how often is that true ? Your talking starters.

[hands11]

You don't move Beal for him. You just add him.

In this draft, pretty much anyone top 5 isn't worth the contract that comes with that pick. VO is one of the player that could reach near that value.

You pick him, and then draft him right away or us him a year and trade him. You can do the same thing with Burke and it actually works a little better because he is a PG that can also shoot.

Its a value play.

But what if VO or Burke don't turn out to be that hot trade commodity that you think they will be, especially since they won't get a ton of minutes as backups to Beal and Wall so it will be hard to showcase them. You might end up getting pennies on the dollar when you try to trade whichever one you draft. You don't take that risk that with the third pick in the draft. With that high a pick, you need to try to draft a player who will be a core piece for many years and an eventual starter.

If you keep them, there its obviously more risk but I'm pretty sure Burke and VO will be good players. VO will always have value because of his defense, work ethic will get him better and he has proven he can hit a good quality shoot. And he is so athletic. Come on. Hard to see that busting.

Burke is just to smart at PG and he can score. I see very low bust value there as well.

And both are proven hard core winners.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Not to beat a dead horse, but for the Olynyk fans - what did you think of Nick Fazekas when he was at Nevada, and why is Olynyk going to be much better than Fazekas - who's barely gotten a cup of coffee in the NBA?

Fazekas in the NBA has a career PER of 19.6 and a career WS/48 of .148. He averages 14.3 points and 11.9 rebounds per 36 minutes. Career .561 FG. Career ORTG 115.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... kni01.html

He did shoot well in his stint with the Clippers and in the D-League, where he was one time an all star. After two seasons cut short by injury, he recently averaged 21/12 in 28 minutes over 50 games in Japan.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Nic ... ummary/343

Fazekas has not stuck in the NBA but his numbers suggest better-than-average rebounding with high FG percentage shooting--just what I and IIRC docklinkin (he mentioned Nick Fazekas first) thought he would do as a pro.
Are you sa
Try again to say he's why Olynyk will stink.

(No, I wasn't wrong about him. See Brandan Wright and Earl Clark's first few seasons. Wright luckily stayed around on a guaranteed deal until his breakthrough season. Fazekas was a round two white player--who just lacked a guaranteed deal. He's better by a good bit than Jan Vesely, even if he's not in the league. Check ALL his stats. ).

Okay... why do you think Fazekas has played a grand total of 26 NBA games - with under 300 career minutes? Is it because you are smarter than every GM in the NBA or because every team has a racist (against white 2nd rounders) GM?

I did check all his stats. I don't think his time in the NBA gives anywhere near enough of a sample size to make any claims about him. And I wouldn't have brought him up if his other stats weren't impressive. That's the point. Are you saying Fazekas is basically the same as Olynyk? That was my question - and still is.

And fwiw, I've said several times I don't think Olynyk will stink (or stynyk, btw). I said he should be a decent scoring big off the bench that I wouldn't want starting. Again, I have him as a late 1st who you and Dat way overrate. Hence my question. Dat's response was well reasoned.

If I can't make claims about Fazekas, neither can you. I didn't bring him up. I can say he has not had the NBA success I projected.

I think perception plays a role in who gets cut. Guys who get labeled as "Big White Stiff " get cut. Guys who don't have guaranteed deals get cut. Second rounders rarely get an opportunity to stick around. Most go the way of Stephane Lasme. Few are as persistent as Danny Green. He always was good. So has Fazekas been good.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2008.html

Nick led the Clippers in WS/48 and PER! He also led in FG. Fazekas' rebounding was a close second to Kaman. He played more minutes than Paul Davis, despite being a rookie.

Unfortunately for him, Elton Brand, Chris Kaman, lottery-selected 1st-yr Paul Davis and Tim Thomas were ahead of him in the depth chart and had guaranteed deals.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2009.html

The next season, Marcus Camby and Brian Skinner were added. DeAndre Jordan was drafted. Kaman was still there. Zach Randolph was briefly a Clipper. PAUL DAVIS stayed but Fazekas was not there.

Ruzious, Fazekas is a very good player who got caught in a numbers game. I think you or others mention him as a bust to say Olynyk will similarly not make it. I still like Fazekas.

I think Olynyk is a better player and is even a good pick at 3. He will get a guaranteed roster spot and it all depends on opportunity from there.

Check the career of Steve Novak. He initially got buried on the 2009 Clippers. Just like the 2008-2011 Wizards, they shuffled players around without any good player development.

[popper]

I don't think I've really given my take on the draft, so with two days left here goes...

Simply put I HATE EVERYTHING about it. I think it's easily going to be the worst draft since 2000 and perhaps in history. I love how Chad Ford says it's not a great draft because it doesn't have a franchise guy, or a sure-fire all-star, but it has tons of depth...I SEE NO DEPTH IN THIS DRAFT. After the big 6 (Noel, Oladipo, Porter, McLemore, Bennett and Len) you have 5 decent guys (Burke, McCullom, MCW, KCP, Zeller) followed by a bunch of international guys who have no experience against quality competition and NCAA guys who *might* become bench rotation guys, but I don't see any sure bet starters after the projected 11 in the entire draft. After the top 11 I see so many significant warts with every single player that it's easier to project how they'll fail in the NBA rather than how they'll be anything other than low rent contributors. One or two will pop, because they always do, but for anyone, even professionals, to say with certainty who will pop from 12-60 is fooling themselves.

In fact, amongst the top 11 I can't think of a draft class with worse cast. Cleveland has said repeatedly that no player they take at #1 will start for them next year. That's insane. When was the last draft where the #1 overall pick wasn't a day one starter? If you put a gun to my head and made me say who will be starting in 3 years the only certain starters I can think of are Porter, Zeller (depending on where he's drafted), Oladipo, and Noel. And I don't think any of them are multiple time all-stars. Bennett may start, but Beasley and Williams aren't starters. Burke may start, but Marcus Williams and DJ Augustine flamed out, and both were very similar prospects. MCW can't shoot. McCullum will settle in as a 3rd guard in a rotation. McLemore will settle in as the next Kansas high lotto bust and Len could be anything from a better defensive Brook Lopez to Michael Doleac.

In the end if the Wizards can come away with a league average starter in this draft I'd consider it a success. But with that said, I have no hopes of this pick being a player that will end up being anything more than "just a guy". Sad but true.

Which is why a trade down is the right play this year. Pick up a proven starter on a reasonable contract and a lower first round pick and you mitigate risk while assuring you've improved the team.

[Knighthonor]

The Wiz need a skilled big to sub for Nene. Bennett seems like that guy. Zeller look like Euro Jan 1.5. Pure bust writen all over him.

[truwizfan4evr]

The Wiz need a skilled big to sub for Nene. Bennett seems like that guy. Zeller look like Euro Jan 1.5. Pure bust writen all over him.

He has so many concerns about him that worry's me. His weight issues and has had an attitude problem lets not forget he's way undersize's and has no position at 6'7.