ImageImageImageImageImage

Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII

Moderators: montestewart, LyricalRico, nate33

Deeptu McPullup
Junior
Posts: 328
And1: 28
Joined: Apr 28, 2013

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1481 » by Deeptu McPullup » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:50 am

LyricalRico wrote:
mhd wrote:Don't draft the next Tayshaun Prince. If you are forced to pick at 3, take Oladipo who will be the better player than Porter.


In his prime, Prince was a 14/5/3 guy that played great defense. Give him a better outside shot (which Porter has) and put him on a team that plays faster than Larry "4 corners" Brown (which the Wizards will), I think you could have seen a 17/6/5 guy.

I'd much rather have those numbers with good defense than a guy that scores 20+ppg but gives up just as much or more, which is what I'd expect from Bennett. Maybe you don't want to spend the #3 on a suped up version of Tayshaun Prince, but I don't want to spend it on an out of shape version of Antawn Jamison.


rockymac52 wrote:Part of the problem with Bennett is that he is more of a 1 on 1 offensive player than a team player. Yes, he can shoot from 3 somewhat, so he can be a "stretch 4," but the problem is that he doesn't appear to be the type of player who knows how to play a team game, because he doesn't know and accept his role.

Bennett scores a lot in isolation, which is something that we have been trying to move away from (and the Spurs do this as well, just sayin'). We don't need four guys standing around watching another player try and take his defender 1 on 1. We're better off having a real team offensive scheme that emphasizes sharing the ball, spacing the floor, and making quick passes to keep the defense on their toes. Porter fits in with an offense like that perfectly. He accepts his role, he doesn't command the ball, he's an excellent passer, and he knows how to make good cuts to the hoop.

Meanwhile Bennett slows down the offense. He's very similar to Al Jefferson in this regard. Yes, he might be an efficient scorer, but he only scores when the ball is force fed to him, and he's given the opportunity to take his man 1 on 1. You don't see good teams doing things like that on offense, unless we're talking about a player like LeBron James. Bennett is not LeBron.


Excellent posts here!

And since Rico is involved...... :clap:
The Consiglieri
Veteran
Posts: 2,823
And1: 1,013
Joined: May 09, 2007

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1482 » by The Consiglieri » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:12 am

Dark Faze wrote:Would you guys select Kawhi Leonard at #3 if Porter wasn't an option and you knew how he'd turn out?

Because Porter is Kawhi with more offensive potential and less rebounding. And Kawhi was arguably the most consistent player in the NBA finals.

Porter is leagues better than Kawhi as a college player--better TS percentage, ORTG, longball.

So it's really disengenuous to say that Porter is "just a safe pick".


The entire reason I have doubts about Porter at the next level are inextricably linked to the particular qualities Leonard had, that Porter doesn't, namely, elite level athleticism, and outstanding defense that was projectable to the next level (there's a lot of sentiment out there that Porter's good to very good defense in college will be merely league average to above average at the next level due to the athleticism related issues). I love many things about Porter, but the precise reason I, and many others have concerns about him are precisely the things he lacked that Leonard had, which were elite at the next level qualities. Sure Porter was a better college player than Leonard. So what. Leonard was drafted based on his known skill set+projectable athletic ability, wherever Porter's drafted, it will be inspite of those characteristics which are lacking in him, but were present in Leonard.

Its not remotely disingenuous.

If being a better college player defined who was successful or not at the next level, the draft would be easy as hell. It isn't, because being a better college player, or a great college player doesn't necessarily mean squat when you jump up several levels in talent to the NBA.
The Consiglieri
Veteran
Posts: 2,823
And1: 1,013
Joined: May 09, 2007

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1483 » by The Consiglieri » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:16 am

mhd wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25/source-bobcats-shopping-kidd-gilcrest-to-draft-otto-porter/ It also says the wizards are determind to draft Bennett.



Sheesh, I'd rather have MKG than Porter.

Heck, do the trade down scenerio of:

Wiz trade #3+Ves for Derrick Williams+MKG
Min trade #9+Derrick Williams for #3+Ves
Bobcats trade MKG for #9


So would I. I wonder what could get it done? I know we wouldn't be smart enough to do it, but man, I'd swing a deal for MKG in a second if there was a way to make it work. Problem with your scenario is that it definitely sounds as if the trade would be contingent on getting Porter, or some elite upside capable 3.
The Consiglieri
Veteran
Posts: 2,823
And1: 1,013
Joined: May 09, 2007

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1484 » by The Consiglieri » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:20 am

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:We've gone round and round, and I still think Noel goes first and McLemore goes second.

I hope we get one of Porter, Zeller, or Bennett, which is where I think I was at a couple months ago. Len has kind of teetered back and fourth on my wish list. I like everything I read about him. I dislike a lot of what I saw on the court.

Agreed. I think we're lucky that Orlando's picking 2nd, because they're one of the few teams that needs a 2. And they have 2 young 3's that I think they love in Harkless and Harris. Afflalo can start at the 2, but I'm guessing they'd rather not start him. I like Ola more than McLemore, but they need a shooter, so they probably go McLemore. But if Orlando trades the pick, it's scramble time, and all bets are off.

My preference would be to end up with Zeller preferably in a trade down, but I'm resigned to the fact that it's not happening.


I think Zeller's destination is totally unpredictable. I wouldn't be shocked if he replaces Len in the top five. If I had to guess, I'd say Sacramento at 7.

I think having him fall to 11 and Philly is wishful thinking. But if he did, he'd be the steal of the class. I think he's on the short list of guys who could end up being the best player in the class.

And I don't think we'll take him either. I think we're going to end up with Porter, Bennett, or Len. Not because we telegraph our picks but because those three are somewhat obvious choices for us at 3.


You really are high on him. I don't think there's a chance that he replaces Len inside the top 5. I'd agree that 7 is the most likely top 10 slot, if Sac doesn't pull the trigger (and they seem to want a guard at least as much), then he'll go somewhere in the lottery between 10-14 or thereabouts. He's not a top 5 pick. I'd be super stunned to see him go anywhere inside the top 5. As stunned as I've been in years and years w/NBA drafts.
User avatar
Knighthonor
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,865
And1: 98
Joined: Feb 15, 2012

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1485 » by Knighthonor » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:54 am

truwizfan4evr wrote:
Knighthonor wrote:The Wiz need a skilled big to sub for Nene. Bennett seems like that guy. Zeller look like Euro Jan 1.5. Pure bust writen all over him.

He has so many concerns about him that worry's me. His weight issues and has had an attitude problem lets not forget he's way undersize's and has no position at 6'7.


Weight issue is not much of an issue, especially this young and talented. He recovering from injury.
Attitude problem? Where you read that? didnt people say that about Drummonds before the draft? seem like common smoke screen to label somebody a attitude problem so they drop in the draft (Drummonds, Barnes).
Undersized? He has strength and skills that translate to next gen level. If he improves, which I know he will, since he nothing but a young man still, he could have elite star level skills.
Deeptu McPullup
Junior
Posts: 328
And1: 28
Joined: Apr 28, 2013

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1486 » by Deeptu McPullup » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:58 am

The Consiglieri wrote:The entire reason I have doubts about Porter at the next level are inextricably linked to the particular qualities Leonard had, that Porter doesn't, namely, elite level athleticism, and outstanding defense that was projectable to the next level (there's a lot of sentiment out there that Porter's good to very good defense in college will be merely league average to above average at the next level due to the athleticism related issues).


Porter's defense in college was objectively excellent in statistical terms, not "good to very good."

Image

Contest+
Vantage tracks 6 levels of shot defense, including block, alter, and contest (defined as when the defender is within 3 feet of shooter and his hand is up). Contest+ is the percentage of shots defended where player blocks to possession, blocks to opponent's possession, alters, or contests.

Points Allowed Per Shot & Fouls Per Shot
Number of points allowed per shot defended includes free throws resulting from fouls and thus penalizes a player with a high Fouls Per Shot number.

Shots Defended Per Chance
Number of shots defended per defensive chance measures defensive activity and therefore gives context to box score counting stats in which level of activity is key.

Overall FG Against %
FG% by opponents on all shots defended.


http://blog.cacvantage.com/2013/05/poki ... -shot.html

Georgetown was also the 9th best team defense in the country by efficiency.

These numbers definitely had a swing on my evaluation of Porter, though not necessarily to where I like him better than Dipo, which was the slant of the article.
User avatar
Knighthonor
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,865
And1: 98
Joined: Feb 15, 2012

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1487 » by Knighthonor » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:00 am

Still feel the Wizards need more Offense than defense. the defense was hoot as is. Need to be able to score.
Deeptu McPullup
Junior
Posts: 328
And1: 28
Joined: Apr 28, 2013

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1488 » by Deeptu McPullup » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:13 am

I'm posting on the 100th page!!!

We're not supposed to be able to do that, but I'm doing it; I'm doing it right now!!!
User avatar
Knighthonor
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,865
And1: 98
Joined: Feb 15, 2012

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1489 » by Knighthonor » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:32 am

Deeptu McPullup wrote:I'm posting on the 100th page!!!

We're not supposed to be able to do that, but I'm doing it; I'm doing it right now!!!

ME TOO!!!!

SO COOL RIGHT?!

NOW DRAFT BENNETT
User avatar
DaRealHibachi
Veteran
Posts: 2,864
And1: 173
Joined: Apr 11, 2008
Location: Rebuild..?? What Rebuild..??

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1490 » by DaRealHibachi » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:06 am

Free Posting Power!!!
:beer: Magnumt
nuposse04
RealGM
Posts: 11,298
And1: 2,440
Joined: Jul 20, 2004
Location: on a rock
   

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1491 » by nuposse04 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:12 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbHBYGY2fs0[/youtube]

in celebration of the 100th page I give you the best song on the interwebz.
truwizfan4evr
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,924
And1: 642
Joined: Jul 07, 2008
Location: tanking
 

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1492 » by truwizfan4evr » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:00 am

Less then a day to we draft Porter.
You Shouldn't Play For Money, But You Should Play Because You Have A Passion For It -- Bradley Beal
Jay81
Veteran
Posts: 2,600
And1: 567
Joined: Nov 10, 2010

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1493 » by Jay81 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:48 am

can we start a new draft thread
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1494 » by Ruzious » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:40 am

Whoa, this is like driving your car when the gas tank line is below empty, and the nearest gas station is 80 miles away. Kramer! Or Cramer, for that matter.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
User avatar
doclinkin
RealGM
Posts: 14,963
And1: 6,736
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: .wizuds.

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1495 » by doclinkin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:55 am

Shift into neutral and roll this one out....

Here. Quoting myself from the Happyhappy thread:

doclinkin wrote:Know what? At this point I'm prepared to be happy for any pick we actually select at #3.

I'll drop a happy thoughts version of this post maybe, but I have run through a few iterations of possibilities for that selection and can see all of them working fine, fitting in with the group we have. Fact is we have a pretty decent and solid foundation to add new players, what we need most is depth of talent and future starters. Our short term needs fit well with the talent likely available.

1. Noel. Best talent available, he'd be an ideal understudy for our current bigs, blends the passing and face-up dribble drive game of Nene with the defense and rebounding of Okafor. The fact that he is recuperating makes no major impact on our success next year, and may help us land a decent draft pick. Eventually though if he fulfills his potential he'd be a great frontcourt complement to Wall. His active defense initiates the fast break and his footspeed outpaces most all of his counterparts when he runs the lane to catch up to John for the dump off alley oop. There are two key players you need for strong defense in the NBA: a low-post intimidator who snares loose rebounds and a disruptive perimeter hellion who can disrupt interior passing, bother ballhandlers, break up the smooth function of pick and roll. Noel's top end looks like he can manage to be a hybrid of both roles on defense. Not the beefiest guy in the league, but wiry and wily and too quick for his size.

2. Porter. Our probable pick. His character and personality and heads-up play just fit so well with our core perimeter players. He shoots well enough to keep defenders honest, passes great, makes the smart play, rebounds well enough, takes personal responsibility on defense, manages to find a way to score on the interior, and is young enough and hardworking enough to constantly adjust and improve. A humble guy he'll be easy to root for, we'll still be an under dog but we'll pick our fair share of high caliber wins. If we ever do land a hothead like Boogie Cousins it will be useful to have a solid team of good attitude young players surrounding him to balance out any shenanigans and min-max his bench and locker room demerits against his best effect on court.

3. Bennett. So far in low-lights reels he sucks on defense and puts out a lazy effort, lazy vibe. But for all, that he can't be the worst ever, his squad actually ranked high on the Kenpom rating for defensive efficiency, with him playing out of position as the Center out of necessity. So okay that leaves room for improvement, and if he does improve under a team that stresses defense, then he's clearly one of the most talented players in the draft.

I actually agree with him that he may hit weight rooms and develop a fitness regimen that would allow him to lean up a little and develop the footspeed to play SF at times. And there he'd be all hell of a mismatch on offense, with his perimeter game bolstered by mighty natural strength and athleticism. This squad struggled to find any mismatch on offense other than John's speed, and here we'd add a face-up 3/4 who can stretch defenses and give John room to operate. Even if he was Antawn Jamison out there, we have enough pieces surrounding him that our overall defense might not bottom out. Picture a frontcourt of Okafor, Nene and Bennett. Yes he might get scorched by fast SFs blowing by him, but they'll stall driving into the heart of our solid defensive core. And if he does learn to keep his hands up and feet active and mind in the game, then he'll be a 200% better player just on a minimum of effort alone. Okay asthma affecting fitness and compounding injury concerns may temper our enthusiasm, but if he learns that he needs a constant effort to overcome this hurdle then suddenly his liability becomes a virtue.

Seeing how well he could fit on offense makes me willing to be excited about playing with line-ups and playbooks that feature his best skills.

4. Len. I'm willing to be patient. Love his upside and appreciate how hard he has worked in his short time over here. Still so young and I look at his improvement through that Roy Hibbert lens. True Bigs take longer to develop, but while he may not yet have the confidence in his size and developing strength, in a few games against more loudly touted prospects and opponents he showed up tough and determined, on defense especially. If he suffered a stress fracture from adding too much weight too quickly, okay but medical science has improved leaps and bounds (so to speak) since say Rik Smits had to retire with glass feet. And the kid is still young. No matter what, he has more potential than almost any player in this draft. Real size, athleticism, defensive emphasis, his upside has more up than most.

5. Oladipo. His defensive intensity makes me grin. The rest is gravy. He's another player who has used his time in college well to improve his game and work his weaknesses to death. Freed of the need to attend classes etc I can see him becoming a workout demon, constantly driven to fix wrinkles in the offseason, ballhandling skills, long range shot whatever. And I can see him adding the strength to effectively guard bigger players at that 3spot. His height undersells how long his arms are, he'll surprise a player with his reach in defending the perimeter, with a wingspan closer to the average SF than a 2guard (even if his standing reach is about average there).

With the new contract structure, any players we pick up become a bargain for us, even as a 6th man type, so long as they do earn playing time. But with Beal's reckless playstyle in attacking the interior, I have no doubt that back-up 2 guard and defensive sub is a need position for us. Let him be that ballstopper on defense, putting him on the toughest outside shooter and making them work and get creative to get their shot off.

To say nothing of the dozen iterations of trade down scenariae.

Basically I can see in my inner vision the best potential possible in most of our likely draft picks at 3. Can envision sets and offensive plays and defensive schemes that feature any and all, and basically: it doesn't suck to have the 3rd pick in this draft. There's strong signals that say we're in a good position to get better and be happier for it.
Benjammin
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,471
And1: 624
Joined: Jan 18, 2003

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1496 » by Benjammin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:59 am

This one goes to 101?
Benjammin
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,471
And1: 624
Joined: Jan 18, 2003

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1497 » by Benjammin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:59 am

Or does this one go to 101?
Benjammin
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,471
And1: 624
Joined: Jan 18, 2003

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1498 » by Benjammin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:00 am

Noel, Porter, Oladipo, Len, blah, blah, blah? 101?
Benjammin
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,471
And1: 624
Joined: Jan 18, 2003

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1499 » by Benjammin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:01 am

2nd round Muscala, Green, Murphy, Kelly, Carmichael? 101?
Benjammin
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,471
And1: 624
Joined: Jan 18, 2003

Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1500 » by Benjammin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:04 am

Breaking the 101 barrier is hard work.

Return to Washington Wizards