ImageImageImageImageImage

2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options.

Moderators: montestewart, LyricalRico, nate33

AFM
RealGM
Posts: 12,421
And1: 8,646
Joined: May 25, 2012
   

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#101 » by AFM » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:17 am

rockymac52 wrote:Can we talk about Phil Pressey real quick? Obviously there's a good chance that we draft a PG with one of our 2nd round picks, and this year there's a solid handful of about 8 guys that might be on the board at 38 and would fill that need. However, Pressey tends to be on the lower end of that group, projecting to be taken in the 50s or possibly go undrafted. That means it'd likely be a stretch to take him at 38, but he could realistically be available at 54, allowing us to trade the 38th pick, draft and stash, or take a big man there.

Before I dive into it, I have to establish that I am somewhat biased, because I went to Mizzou for Phil's first 2 years, and I always think it'd be fun to see the Wizards draft a Mizzou player. However, it's worth noting that my bias with Pressey might actually work against him. Yes, I've seen him at his very best, and I am fully aware of all of the spectacular things he is capable of doing with a basketball, but on the other hand, I also am very aware of his weaknesses, many of which became evident this past season when he was thrust into an even bigger role, and for the most part, he failed.

For what it's worth, whenever Pressey was mentioned in the last 2 years on this board, I think I was pretty consistent in evaluating him, noting that he has considerable upside, but that he's got some serious flaws that led him to be overrated, and I was skeptical of his future NBA potential. After this disastrous junior season this past year, he fell from projected late 1st round pick, to projected late 2nd round pick/undrafted. It became pointless to really analyze him, and as such, most of you have stopped talking about him as well. But recently I came across a highlight video of Pressey that got me somewhat nostalgic, reliving all of the great things he's done in the last three years, and so I decided it was only fair that I reconsider him and give him a fair evaluation one last time.

Now that I've given him a second look, I'm more torn than ever. As a whole, he has his flaws, and I don't think he's going to become a star PG at the next level or anything like that. But I do believe that he could be overlooked this year, and as such, might be a solid option for us going forward. I think taking him at 38 is too much still, and he'd be a better pick at 54 if he's still available.

To his credit, Pressey was the starting PG that led one of the all-time most efficient offenses in college basketball in the 2012 Mizzou Tigers. However, Pressey was in many ways the one guy who was holding them back from being even more dominant offensively. This was in large part the result of a high turnover rate, and inexplicably inefficient transition possessions. Pressey passes the eye test in large part, in fact, he often showcases his elite ball-handling and passing skills, and he can appear very very promising to the untrained eye, as he did as a sophomore on that 2012 Mizzou team, leading to the designation of pre-season SEC Player of the Year last season. He got a little too much credit for that team's success, and his flaws were widely overlooked, partly because he passed the eye test so damn well. Seriously, check out some of his highlight reels on YouTube if you want to be wow-ed.

As far as how good he actually is/can be, there's a bit of a mixed bag. There's no denying that he's going to have issues defensively at the next level. That is pretty much a given for a 5'9" PG. However, there's also no denying that he gets after it defensively, and shows a lot of the skills you want to see in a great on-ball defender. But he had these skills in college, and even then, his lack of size proved to be a serious issue, especially on defense. As a result, it's pretty safe to say that he's going to be a liability defensively in the NBA.

However, his offense might be able to make up for that. His biggest criticism offensively is probably his turnovers, especially late in the game in crucial "clutch" situations. However, let's be real, as long as John Wall is still breathing, Pressey wouldn't be seeing any late-game minutes other than in blowouts, so his late-game turnovers wouldn't really be an issue. I don't have any facts to support the notion that his turnover rate increased substantially in late-game situations though, so I can't say for sure that it will matter. Even if his turnover rate is high regardless of the situation, that's not a good thing, but it's something that can improve over time.

He was also often criticized for his lack of a jump shot, but I think those criticisms are wildly off base. He had one of the most efficient mid-range jumpers in all of the NCAA, scoring .96 PPP (86th percentile). He wasn't nearly as efficient from 3, but the good news is that the 3 point shot will still be a legitimate threat in the NBA, because the kid can shoot from anywhere in the gym. He frequently pulled up (inexplicably, and to the annoyance of the fan base) from DEEP, well beyond the college 3 point line, and he sunk these shots with ease at times throughout his college career. So while his efficiency from 3 pointers might leave a little to be desired, at least he is capable of making 3s from the NBA line, and it would be reasonable to believe his efficiency on his long-range jumper could improve over time.

With Pressey, I see a viable option for our backup PG. Not a sure thing, but a guy I'd be happy to take a flyer on (which, with the 54th pick, we'd essentially be doing). I see a guy with a great mid-range jumper, a capable 3 point jumper, a guy who can score off the dribble, and a guy who can excel in the pick and roll game. The way he weaves in and out of the pick and roll reminds me of Tony Parker. That's where his elite ball-handling and passing skills really come into play. He also sees the court very well, and will rocket passes through the defense to find open shooters that you didn't even realize were there. He was also a great spot up shooter when he played off the ball, in a limited capacity. I can see him blossoming into that spark plug PG off the bench type role. He has shown an ability to be both a pass-first and shoot-first PG, and I like that flexibility going forward. It makes him a legitimate threat to opposing defenses.

There's also something to be said about his teammate's efficiency numbers with him at the point. They've been phenomenal. Kim English, Marcus Denmon, RiCardo Ratliffe, Mike Dixon, Laurence Bowers, and Alex Oriakhi all posted truly elite offensive efficiencies with Pressey at PG. That's not necessarily the result of Pressey's presence, but it might be.

I know I haven't really done a great job at selling him here, as I've focused on a lot of his weaknesses, but I hope you guys give him a look and let me know what you think. If we don't draft a PG at 38, I'd like to see us take a flyer on Pressey at 54 (or as an undrafted FA, if that's how it goes down).

Cliffs?
I want to start reading your posts, but they are longer than WizD's. Can you just highlight the important stuff? Thanks.
User avatar
rockymac52
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,824
And1: 73
Joined: Dec 14, 2006

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#102 » by rockymac52 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:36 am

AFM wrote:
rockymac52 wrote:Can we talk about Phil Pressey real quick? Obviously there's a good chance that we draft a PG with one of our 2nd round picks, and this year there's a solid handful of about 8 guys that might be on the board at 38 and would fill that need. However, Pressey tends to be on the lower end of that group, projecting to be taken in the 50s or possibly go undrafted. That means it'd likely be a stretch to take him at 38, but he could realistically be available at 54, allowing us to trade the 38th pick, draft and stash, or take a big man there.

Before I dive into it, I have to establish that I am somewhat biased, because I went to Mizzou for Phil's first 2 years, and I always think it'd be fun to see the Wizards draft a Mizzou player. However, it's worth noting that my bias with Pressey might actually work against him. Yes, I've seen him at his very best, and I am fully aware of all of the spectacular things he is capable of doing with a basketball, but on the other hand, I also am very aware of his weaknesses, many of which became evident this past season when he was thrust into an even bigger role, and for the most part, he failed.

For what it's worth, whenever Pressey was mentioned in the last 2 years on this board, I think I was pretty consistent in evaluating him, noting that he has considerable upside, but that he's got some serious flaws that led him to be overrated, and I was skeptical of his future NBA potential. After this disastrous junior season this past year, he fell from projected late 1st round pick, to projected late 2nd round pick/undrafted. It became pointless to really analyze him, and as such, most of you have stopped talking about him as well. But recently I came across a highlight video of Pressey that got me somewhat nostalgic, reliving all of the great things he's done in the last three years, and so I decided it was only fair that I reconsider him and give him a fair evaluation one last time.

Now that I've given him a second look, I'm more torn than ever. As a whole, he has his flaws, and I don't think he's going to become a star PG at the next level or anything like that. But I do believe that he could be overlooked this year, and as such, might be a solid option for us going forward. I think taking him at 38 is too much still, and he'd be a better pick at 54 if he's still available.

To his credit, Pressey was the starting PG that led one of the all-time most efficient offenses in college basketball in the 2012 Mizzou Tigers. However, Pressey was in many ways the one guy who was holding them back from being even more dominant offensively. This was in large part the result of a high turnover rate, and inexplicably inefficient transition possessions. Pressey passes the eye test in large part, in fact, he often showcases his elite ball-handling and passing skills, and he can appear very very promising to the untrained eye, as he did as a sophomore on that 2012 Mizzou team, leading to the designation of pre-season SEC Player of the Year last season. He got a little too much credit for that team's success, and his flaws were widely overlooked, partly because he passed the eye test so damn well. Seriously, check out some of his highlight reels on YouTube if you want to be wow-ed.

As far as how good he actually is/can be, there's a bit of a mixed bag. There's no denying that he's going to have issues defensively at the next level. That is pretty much a given for a 5'9" PG. However, there's also no denying that he gets after it defensively, and shows a lot of the skills you want to see in a great on-ball defender. But he had these skills in college, and even then, his lack of size proved to be a serious issue, especially on defense. As a result, it's pretty safe to say that he's going to be a liability defensively in the NBA.

However, his offense might be able to make up for that. His biggest criticism offensively is probably his turnovers, especially late in the game in crucial "clutch" situations. However, let's be real, as long as John Wall is still breathing, Pressey wouldn't be seeing any late-game minutes other than in blowouts, so his late-game turnovers wouldn't really be an issue. I don't have any facts to support the notion that his turnover rate increased substantially in late-game situations though, so I can't say for sure that it will matter. Even if his turnover rate is high regardless of the situation, that's not a good thing, but it's something that can improve over time.

He was also often criticized for his lack of a jump shot, but I think those criticisms are wildly off base. He had one of the most efficient mid-range jumpers in all of the NCAA, scoring .96 PPP (86th percentile). He wasn't nearly as efficient from 3, but the good news is that the 3 point shot will still be a legitimate threat in the NBA, because the kid can shoot from anywhere in the gym. He frequently pulled up (inexplicably, and to the annoyance of the fan base) from DEEP, well beyond the college 3 point line, and he sunk these shots with ease at times throughout his college career. So while his efficiency from 3 pointers might leave a little to be desired, at least he is capable of making 3s from the NBA line, and it would be reasonable to believe his efficiency on his long-range jumper could improve over time.

With Pressey, I see a viable option for our backup PG. Not a sure thing, but a guy I'd be happy to take a flyer on (which, with the 54th pick, we'd essentially be doing). I see a guy with a great mid-range jumper, a capable 3 point jumper, a guy who can score off the dribble, and a guy who can excel in the pick and roll game. The way he weaves in and out of the pick and roll reminds me of Tony Parker. That's where his elite ball-handling and passing skills really come into play. He also sees the court very well, and will rocket passes through the defense to find open shooters that you didn't even realize were there. He was also a great spot up shooter when he played off the ball, in a limited capacity. I can see him blossoming into that spark plug PG off the bench type role. He has shown an ability to be both a pass-first and shoot-first PG, and I like that flexibility going forward. It makes him a legitimate threat to opposing defenses.

There's also something to be said about his teammate's efficiency numbers with him at the point. They've been phenomenal. Kim English, Marcus Denmon, RiCardo Ratliffe, Mike Dixon, Laurence Bowers, and Alex Oriakhi all posted truly elite offensive efficiencies with Pressey at PG. That's not necessarily the result of Pressey's presence, but it might be.

I know I haven't really done a great job at selling him here, as I've focused on a lot of his weaknesses, but I hope you guys give him a look and let me know what you think. If we don't draft a PG at 38, I'd like to see us take a flyer on Pressey at 54 (or as an undrafted FA, if that's how it goes down).

Cliffs?
I want to start reading your posts, but they are longer than WizD's. Can you just highlight the important stuff? Thanks.


Hahaha, I'll see what I can do. Thanks for calling me out. I hate reading WizD's posts, so I know what you mean. And I've always been aware that my posts end up on the longer side, but surprisingly it seems that several key contributors to this forum read my posts, so I haven't been forced to change. I'll admit that this post in particular was a lot of stream-of-conscious rambling.
User avatar
gambitx777
RealGM
Posts: 10,540
And1: 1,985
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#103 » by gambitx777 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:11 am

We really need to hit on a back up guard in the second round or UDFA. there are not a lot of good quality PG's on the market right now. If the spurs cut Mill's i would be all over him but for now I think our best bet is to try and grab one in the second round.
User avatar
Knighthonor
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,865
And1: 98
Joined: Feb 15, 2012

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#104 » by Knighthonor » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:19 am

Think the Wiz can get some great role players for the bench in this years second round?
W. Unseld
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 5,933
And1: 122
Joined: Jun 26, 2002
Location: Virginia

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#105 » by W. Unseld » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:48 pm

Knighthonor wrote:Think the Wiz can get some great role players for the bench in this years second round?


I haven't read all 7 pages of this, but I'm definitely feeling a draft and stash for one or both of these picks; I don't see much of a market for buying the picks out and I know they don't want more than one rookie if they can help it.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 54,524
And1: 10,292
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#106 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:59 am

rockymac52 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Rocky, I think Pressey would be a great pick at 54. When he's on, he's spectacular. And if he'd just develop a somewhat consistent 3 point shot, he'd be a good backup - even with the up and down decision-making. I also like Myck Kabongo - if he slips - another spectacular passer who doesn't shoot well and takes too many chances. Pressey's quicker, while Myck is much longer.

Agreed. Kabongo is another guy I've had my eyes on. The mock drafts seem to indicate that Pressey and Kabongo are clearly a tier behind the likes of Jackson, Wolters, and Canaan.


I express strong opinions a good bit of the time. One thing I can't be sure at all about is which point guard is going to be good in the NBA. This draft is so loaded with great NCAA point guards it's hard to tell.

Pressey, Kabongo, and even Lorenzo Brown are all talented. I don't see how Shane Larkin is better than them or Pierre Jackson or Peyton Siva.

Wolters is the guy I've settled in on because of his scoring with good pure passing. McCollum adds defense with great offense, but not quite good playmaking. McCallum is more athletic, a coach's son, and quite underrated.

I think there will be two or three PGs better than Trey Burke from this draft.
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
User avatar
pancakes3
General Manager
Posts: 9,581
And1: 3,013
Joined: Jul 27, 2003
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#107 » by pancakes3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:28 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I think there will be two or three PGs better than Trey Burke from this draft.


Is this to say that Burke is going to bust or that there will be 2-3 really good point guards in this draft?
Bullets -> Wizards
User avatar
BruceO
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,922
And1: 311
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Location: feeling monumental
   

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#108 » by BruceO » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:35 pm

Well guys remember they said they likely won't use all three picks so I'm anticipating a trade up or a sale of one pick.

Like CCJ I like wolters, I also like erick green who supposedly the spurs have promised to draft. On the wing the player who may be available to us that I like is southerland of syracuse but based on workouts would attempt to move up to ledo.

I am going to look into Jackie carmicheal but with the bangers we have I'm not sure if he serves a need unless like denver did with faried we plan to flip one of our bangers away. The stretch I'm on the fence about who to get Ryan Kelly, Erik Murphy or minerath. Ultimately I'd like to have cousins and ilyasova on this team or equivalent players
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#109 » by Ruzious » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:55 pm

BruceO wrote:Well guys remember they said they likely won't use all three picks so I'm anticipating a trade up or a sale of one pick.

Like CCJ I like wolters, I also like erick green who supposedly the spurs have promised to draft. On the wing the player who may be available to us that I like is southerland of syracuse but based on workouts would attempt to move up to ledo.

I am going to look into Jackie carmicheal but with the bangers we have I'm not sure if he serves a need unless like denver did with faried we plan to flip one of our bangers away. The stretch I'm on the fence about who to get Ryan Kelly, Erik Murphy or minerath. Ultimately I'd like to have cousins and ilyasova on this team or equivalent players

It's possible they use both second rounders and have them compete for a roster spot. But I think the good money is on them doing a draft and stash in Europe with the 2nd 2nd rounder.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
AWIZZINGBULLET
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,437
And1: 222
Joined: Apr 08, 2012
       

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#110 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:17 pm

BruceO wrote:Well guys remember they said they likely won't use all three picks so I'm anticipating a trade up or a sale of one pick.

Like CCJ I like wolters, I also like erick green who supposedly the spurs have promised to draft. On the wing the player who may be available to us that I like is southerland of syracuse but based on workouts would attempt to move up to ledo.

I am going to look into Jackie carmicheal but with the bangers we have I'm not sure if he serves a need unless like denver did with faried we plan to flip one of our bangers away. The stretch I'm on the fence about who to get Ryan Kelly, Erik Murphy or minerath. Ultimately I'd like to have cousins and ilyasova on this team or equivalent players


The Wizards only have one legitimate banger in Nene, maybe two with Okafor, but after that I don't really like what the Wizards have on the inside. Seraphin was unwilling to work inside for a large part of last season and Booker though physical, doesn't always finish on the inside; I think that's due to his lack of size and length.

Seraphin is soft when it comes to rebounding. Booker doesn't shoot the ball with consistency and may or may not stay healthy for the entire season. I don't think the Wizards are set at all at PF and hope they aren't blinded by what the depth chart shows.

For obvious reasons I didn't mention Jan Vesely.
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#111 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 pm

This guy's not a banger, but Lucas Nugueira (sp?) might have created a 2nd round opportunity for the Wiz. He signed a 2 year extension with his Euro team. I'm guessing that knocks him down to the 2nd round, but it makes him more appealing, imo - because he needs another 2 years to get bigger and refine his skills. I saw him in the USA v World under 18 game that featured Anthony Davis v Bismack Biyumbo, and he was (and apparently still is) a long gifted athletic 7 footer - though very thin and very raw. In 2 years, who knows? He may be someone's Tiago Splitter.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#112 » by fishercob » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:57 pm

Ruzious wrote:This guy's not a banger, but Lucas Nugueira (sp?) might have created a 2nd round opportunity for the Wiz. He signed a 2 year extension with his Euro team. I'm guessing that knocks him down to the 2nd round, but it makes him more appealing, imo - because he needs another 2 years to get bigger and refine his skills. I saw him in the USA v World under 18 game that featured Anthony Davis v Bismack Biyumbo, and he was (and apparently still is) a long gifted athletic 7 footer - though very thin and very raw. In 2 years, who knows? He may be someone's Tiago Splitter.



Interesting. Pelton loves Nogueria; had him ranked 6th gicen his ACB production that compares well to Ibaka's. I still don't see him dropping this far, but here's hoping.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 24,141
And1: 7,902
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#113 » by Dat2U » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:02 pm

Ruzious wrote:This guy's not a banger, but Lucas Nugueira (sp?) might have created a 2nd round opportunity for the Wiz. He signed a 2 year extension with his Euro team. I'm guessing that knocks him down to the 2nd round, but it makes him more appealing, imo - because he needs another 2 years to get bigger and refine his skills. I saw him in the USA v World under 18 game that featured Anthony Davis v Bismack Biyumbo, and he was (and apparently still is) a long gifted athletic 7 footer - though very thin and very raw. In 2 years, who knows? He may be someone's Tiago Splitter.


Yeah, he'd be a real good catch in the 2nd. Unlike Satoransky, Noguiera is a legit draft & stash candidate with decent NBA upside. Actually he's likely worth a bought pick in the late 1st if were patient enough to wait two years.
User avatar
rockymac52
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,824
And1: 73
Joined: Dec 14, 2006

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#114 » by rockymac52 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:19 pm

I've been talking up Noguiera for a while now. Even if he just committed to 2 more years in Europe, there's a 0% chance he lasts until the 2nd round. Honestly, I'd be very surprised if both the Thunder and Mavericks passed on him at 12 and 13.

And CCJ, I agree 100% with what you said about this draft class's PGs. There are about 10 guys who deserve to be drafted, and I don't necessarily think any of them will become a top tier PG (there's like 15 very good PGs in this league right now). I don't see much of a difference between those 10 PGs at the moment. Pressey could easily go in the 50s and be just as good as Trey Burke.
AWIZZINGBULLET
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,437
And1: 222
Joined: Apr 08, 2012
       

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#115 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:03 am

Kazemi at 54. Lots of talent still left on the board.
User avatar
mohammed10
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,857
And1: 155
Joined: May 26, 2007
Location: Playoffs? Playoffs? Yes, playoffs dammit
 

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#116 » by mohammed10 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:04 am

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:Kazemi at 54. Lots of talent still left on the board.


...as is the case every year.

But Ernest has already blown his wad on Glen Jr.

...as is the case every year
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

'If' - by Rudyard Kipling
W. Unseld
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 5,933
And1: 122
Joined: Jun 26, 2002
Location: Virginia

Re: 2013 NBA Draft--- 2nd Round Draft Options. 

Post#117 » by W. Unseld » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:29 am

Return to Washington Wizards