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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII

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The Consiglieri
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#81 » by The Consiglieri » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:02 pm

jivelikenice wrote:Consiglieri, you do realize that Otto tested better than Kawhi athletically in every category save the 3/4 court sprint, right?


Zeller tested through the roof too. Sometimes athleticism shows up on the court, but not on the tests, sometimes it shows up in the tests but not on the court. The ability to apply athletic gifts to the field of play matters every bit as much as the presence of said athleticism. I saw Leonard's athleticism at San Diego State, and in the NBA. I didn't see Barnes EVER at UNC, nor Zeller's at Indiana, nor Otto's at Georgetown. Could be system, could be player. There are limits to pure numbers based analysis as well as the eye test. Again, if this were easy and as simple as plugging in numbers, or plugging in eye test interpretations, GM's would never get fired, and the draft would be cake, and not as difficult and as fraught with problems as it is.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#82 » by Knighthonor » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:03 pm

I would avoid Zeller if the Bobcats are looking for him. Bobcats have a history of bad picks. Picking MKG over Barnes. Lol
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#83 » by theGreatRC » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:05 pm

tontoz wrote:
theGreatRC wrote:Don't know if this has been posted yet, but...

Beal knows both Porter and Bennett but deferred to the front office on the decision. Wall didn’t make a specific choice but has repeatedly stated his desire to have a “stretch four” or “pick-and-pop” big man to spread the floor and create space. Bennett would appear to be the meet that criteria with his sophisticated offensive game and ability to score from all parts of the floor.


Wonder if Ernie would still take D-Will and 9. You still get your stretch 4 plus another pick to fill another hole or package the 9 with another player..



A stretch 4 has to be able to actually make jumpers, not just take them. So far DWill's jumper doesn't qualify him as a stretch 4.


I feel you. Derrick did shoot 33% from 3 last year, not the best, but he IS a power forward.

Anyway, I honestly think if you want a pick&pop big, you go with Zeller at 3 and never look back. Bennett is just bad news waiting to happen. I mean, AB can hit jumpers too, but Zeller is fundamentally sound and has a nice face up game, just don't expect him to bang in the post.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#84 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:05 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:

Code: Select all

Name--   Gs   FTA   Reb   Blk   Off   Hus   Deft   Total
porter-   33   -84   225   27   2.55   6.82   0.82   10.18
porter2   31   157   233   28   5.06   7.52   0.90   13.48
klnard1   34   117   336   24   3.44   9.88   0.71   14.03
klnard2   36   145   380   21   4.03   10.6   0.58   15.17
bennet-   35   177   285   43   5.06   8.14   1.23   14.43
zeller-   36   216   236   42   6.00   6.56   1.17   13.72
zeller2   36   259   289   45   7.19   8.03   1.25   16.47
adams---   32   70   203   65   2.19   6.34   2.03   10.56
len-----   22   46   119   47   2.09   5.41   2.14   9.64
len---2   38   153   298   78   4.03   7.84   2.05   13.92
olynk---   35   68   133   5-   1.94   3.80   0.14   5.89
olynk-1   32   170   235   36   5.31   7.34   1.13   13.78
noel---   24   104   227   106   4.3   9.46   4.42   18.21


Last 5-                        
Porter-   5   29   35   3   5.80   7.00   0.60   13.40
leonard   5   12   44   3   2.40   8.80   0.60   11.80
Bennet-   5   22   35   3   4.40   7.00   0.60   12.00
Zeller2   5   31   39   4   6.20   7.80   0.80   14.80
Adams--   5   14   31   12   2.8   6.20   2.40   11.40
len----   5   27   34   15   5.4   6.80   3.00   15.20
olynk-1   5   34   50   2   6.80   10.0   0.40   17.20
noel---   5   37   51   26   7.4   10.2   5.20   22.80

timdunc2   32   159   401   135   4.97   12.53   4.22   21.72
timdunc4   31   269   457   136   8.68   14.74   4.39   27.81
canthon-   35   238   349   137   6.80   9.97   3.91   20.69
ppierc1-   34   137   180   138   4.03   5.29   4.06   13.38
ppierc2-   38   221   253   139   5.82   6.66   3.66   16.13
olajuwn-   34   232   500   140   6.82   14.7   4.12   25.65
cbarkly1   28   107   275   141   3.82   9.82   5.04   18.68
cbarkly3   28   145   266   142   5.18   9.50   5.07   19.75
pgeorge2   29   132   210   143   4.55   7.24   4.93   16.72



I would say that Leonard has always had more offensive potential than Porter. Porter had slightly more defensive potential but overall, Leonard had way more potential. Leonard was 15.07 and had ranking of a star porter with his 13.48 was pretty crappy considering he was the go to man. Bennett's 1.23 defensive rating ability was higher than both leonard and porter. I didn't like the fact that Porter didn't surpass his average during the last five games of the season...equivalent to the playoffs in the nba. Zeller actually crumbled and fell below his average during tough competition dropping from 16.27 star rating to just below star level of 14.80. Maybe more favorable calls in his conference compared to neutral play. Len seems to have boosted up from his average of 13.92 to 15.20 in last five games but suffered a stress factor when he tried to up his play. Olynk seems to have pushed his play up moving from 13.78 to 17.20 which is pretty impressive but considering that he is a junior, it really makes it alot less impressive. Adams seems to boosted his ability during crunch play in freshman year boosting from 10.56 to 11.40. Leonard actually dropped his ability under pressure from 15.17 to 11.80 during his final five college games. Guess it explains why he didn't rise to become a star and lead san antonio in game 7.

Ultimately, the hardest player to find is a player who was a superior shot blocker in college but also got to the free throw over 200 times. Only a few cases of this ever happening.

shows just how crappy this draft is if you look at the franchise front court players in previous drafts.


If I knew Len would be healthy, and I felt he would consistently play like he did at the NIT, he would be my pick even ahead of Olynyk. Alex just turned 20 last week. He's a fast learner and still has a lot of physical maturing ahead of him.

Olynyk attained numbers no one else did and he will score in the NBA. So will Zeller.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#85 » by dangermouse » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:08 pm

+1 on Zeller over Bennett

I just dont see it with Bennett. If someone takes him top 5 I think that team is going to end up a little disappointed.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#86 » by Kanyewest » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:09 pm

fishercob wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I believe a circular discourse is going on.


You don't say! That almost never happens here. On an unrelated note, I wonder what people think about trading Rashard Lewis and a 2nd round pick for Okafor and Ariza.



It i were GM i'd trade down for Olynyk and also try to acquire Ilyasova or Derrick Williams plus another pick. With that pick I would select Wolters.

I think Zeller is a much better pick than Bennett.

I don't have any problem with Porter as the pick but I think he takes away Webster and Ariza from established, effective roles.


This is the first I have heard of any of this! Tell me more....

:D

Less than 33 hours, my friends.....


It's going to be longer than 33 hours. Don't forget summer league- people were saying that Jeremy Lamb was better than Bradley Beal.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#87 » by pancakes3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:09 pm

tontoz wrote:According for Ford the Bobcats GM is pushing hard for Zeller but is getting a lot of resistance.


Rich Cho is a numbers guy, so that doesn't surprise. I bet Cho wants Zeller/Dipo and MJ's pushing for Len and Bennett.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#88 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:09 pm

Knighthonor wrote:I would avoid Zeller if the Bobcats are looking for him. Bobcats have a history of bad picks. Picking MKG over Barnes. Lol


I think MKG will be far superior to Barnes. MKG had a pair of 25/12 games as a rookie. He's still 19 years old.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#89 » by pancakes3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:10 pm

Kanyewest wrote:It's going to be longer than 33 hours. Don't forget summer league- people were saying that Jeremy Lamb was better than Bradley Beal.


And that Rivers would reign over the both of them.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#90 » by LyricalRico » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:15 pm

I keep seeing mocks slotting Trey Burke at #6 to NOH, but that doesn't make sense to me. Hasn't General Grevious been really good for them? And they also drafted Rivers last year (although he's been a disappointment so far). I would think they'd try to find a way to turn the pick into a SF.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#91 » by stevemcqueen1 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:18 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:Consiglieri, you do realize that Otto tested better than Kawhi athletically in every category save the 3/4 court sprint, right?


Zeller tested through the roof too. Sometimes athleticism shows up on the court, but not on the tests, sometimes it shows up in the tests but not on the court. The ability to apply athletic gifts to the field of play matters every bit as much as the presence of said athleticism. I saw Leonard's athleticism at San Diego State, and in the NBA. I didn't see Barnes EVER at UNC, nor Zeller's at Indiana, nor Otto's at Georgetown. Could be system, could be player. There are limits to pure numbers based analysis as well as the eye test. Again, if this were easy and as simple as plugging in numbers, or plugging in eye test interpretations, GM's would never get fired, and the draft would be cake, and not as difficult and as fraught with problems as it is.


I don't accept the premise that Zeller's athleticism didn't show up on the court. I thought it was obviously excellent long before the combine and I got that impression from watching him play.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#92 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:19 pm

theGreatRC wrote:
tontoz wrote:
theGreatRC wrote:Don't know if this has been posted yet, but...



Wonder if Ernie would still take D-Will and 9. You still get your stretch 4 plus another pick to fill another hole or package the 9 with another player..



A stretch 4 has to be able to actually make jumpers, not just take them. So far DWill's jumper doesn't qualify him as a stretch 4.


I feel you. Derrick did shoot 33% from 3 last year, not the best, but he IS a power forward.

Anyway, I honestly think if you want a pick&pop big, you go with Zeller at 3 and never look back. Bennett is just bad news waiting to happen. I mean, AB can hit jumpers too, but Zeller is fundamentally sound and has a nice face up game, just don't expect him to bang in the post.


Which is why I prefer the less-athletic Olynyk over Zeller. Olynyk is able to score around, and also up and under through contact. Cody is really fast and I think a sure thing to score in transition, but not in half court. Olynyk is going to destroy opposing bigs with both pick and pop and pick and roll. Olynyk will finish at the rim in half court and will be a good end-of-game scorer. He can score ugly. (No pun intended).
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#93 » by Dark Faze » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:20 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I don't have any problem with Porter as the pick but I think he takes away Webster and Ariza from established, effective roles.


The problem is that Webster has zero reliability due to injury history and that Ernie literally tried to trade Ariza so it's not like his long term prospects here are locked in whatsoever.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#94 » by Dat2U » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:22 pm

So are we doing a mock draft contest this year???
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#95 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:23 pm

Kanyewest wrote:
fishercob wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I believe a circular discourse is going on.


You don't say! That almost never happens here. On an unrelated note, I wonder what people think about trading Rashard Lewis and a 2nd round pick for Okafor and Ariza.



It i were GM i'd trade down for Olynyk and also try to acquire Ilyasova or Derrick Williams plus another pick. With that pick I would select Wolters.

I think Zeller is a much better pick than Bennett.

I don't have any problem with Porter as the pick but I think he takes away Webster and Ariza from established, effective roles.


This is the first I have heard of any of this! Tell me more....

:D

Less than 33 hours, my friends.....


It's going to be longer than 33 hours. Don't forget summer league- people were saying that Jeremy Lamb was better than Bradley Beal.


Lamb was better in summer league. Beal started and found himself after many called him a bust. Lamb has not played enough to say he's not better than Beal.

I remember Lamb's 60% on two point FGs. Oladipo has duplicated that feat.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#96 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:26 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:

Code: Select all

Name--   Gs   FTA   Reb   Blk   Off   Hus   Deft   Total
porter-   33   -84   225   27   2.55   6.82   0.82   10.18
porter2   31   157   233   28   5.06   7.52   0.90   13.48
klnard1   34   117   336   24   3.44   9.88   0.71   14.03
klnard2   36   145   380   21   4.03   10.6   0.58   15.17
bennet-   35   177   285   43   5.06   8.14   1.23   14.43
zeller-   36   216   236   42   6.00   6.56   1.17   13.72
zeller2   36   259   289   45   7.19   8.03   1.25   16.47
adams---   32   70   203   65   2.19   6.34   2.03   10.56
len-----   22   46   119   47   2.09   5.41   2.14   9.64
len---2   38   153   298   78   4.03   7.84   2.05   13.92
olynk---   35   68   133   5-   1.94   3.80   0.14   5.89
olynk-1   32   170   235   36   5.31   7.34   1.13   13.78
noel---   24   104   227   106   4.3   9.46   4.42   18.21


Last 5-                        
Porter-   -5   -29   -35   --3   5.80   7.00   0.60   13.40
leonard   -5   -12   -44   --3   2.40   8.80   0.60   11.80
Bennet-   -5   -22   -35   --3   4.40   7.00   0.60   12.00
Zeller2   -5   -31   -39   --4   6.20   7.80   0.80   14.80
Adams--   -5   -14   -31   -12   2.8-   6.20   2.40   11.40
len----   -5   -27   -34   -15   5.4-   6.80   3.00   15.20
olynk-1   -5   -34   -50   --2   6.80   10.0   0.40   17.20
noel---   -5   -37   -51   -26   7.4-   10.2   5.20   22.80
               
Name---   Gs   FTA   Reb   Blk   Off---   Hus   Deft   Total
timdunc2   32   159   401   135   4.97   12.5   4.22   21.72
timdunc4   31   269   457   102   8.68   14.7   3.29   26.71
canthon-   35   238   349   -30   6.80   9.97   0.86   17.63
ppierc1-   34   137   180   -27   4.03   5.29   0.79   10.12
ppierc2-   38   221   253   -43   5.82   6.66   1.13   13.61
olajuwn-   34   232   500   140   6.8   14.71   4.12   25.65
cbarkly1   28   107   275   -51   3.82   9.82   1.82   15.46
cbarkly3   28   145   266   -49   5.18   9.50   1.75   16.43
pgeorge2   29   132   210   -24   4.55   7.24   0.83   12.62
mcgee1--   33   -34   -72   -30   1.03   2.18   0.91   4.12-
mcgee2--   33   141   242   -92   4.27   7.33   2.79   14.39
singleto   28   126   191   -41   4.50   6.82   1.46   12.79


I would say that Leonard has always had more offensive potential than Porter. Porter had slightly more defensive potential but overall, Leonard had way more potential. Leonard was 15.07 and had ranking of a star porter with his 13.48 was pretty crappy considering he was the go to man. Bennett's 1.23 defensive rating ability was higher than both leonard and porter. I didn't like the fact that Porter didn't surpass his average during the last five games of the season...equivalent to the playoffs in the nba. Zeller actually crumbled and fell below his average during tough competition dropping from 16.27 star rating to just below star level of 14.80. Maybe more favorable calls in his conference compared to neutral play. Len seems to have boosted up from his average of 13.92 to 15.20 in last five games but suffered a stress factor when he tried to up his play. Olynk seems to have pushed his play up moving from 13.78 to 17.20 which is pretty impressive but considering that he is a junior, it really makes it alot less impressive. Adams seems to boosted his ability during crunch play in freshman year boosting from 10.56 to 11.40. Leonard actually dropped his ability under pressure from 15.17 to 11.80 during his final five college games. Guess it explains why he didn't rise to become a star and lead san antonio in game 7.

Ultimately, the hardest player to find is a player who was a superior shot blocker in college but also got to the free throw over 200 times. Only a few cases of this ever happening.

shows just how crappy this draft is if you look at the franchise front court players in previous drafts.


If I knew Len would be healthy, and I felt he would consistently play like he did at the NIT, he would be my pick even ahead of Olynyk. Alex just turned 20 last week. He's a fast learner and still has a lot of physical maturing ahead of him.

Olynyk attained numbers no one else did and he will score in the NBA. So will Zeller.



the problem with Len is permanent. he has tooth pick legs, no lower body strength. Permanent problem. Same problem with Noel. tooth pick legs are like corvettes. Nice for speed but when a corvette smashes into dump truck, the corvette always gets dented...and its only a matter of time before your speed is negated by the massive amounts of dents you have picked up from colliding with a dump truck each night. Lower body strength and speed...like Drummond...Adams...duncan....very rare....but that's why they consistently show high Hustle and rebounds over multiple seasons in college. Len and Noel lower body strength similar to my corvette mack truck example. It's too late in life to change from corvette legs to mack truck legs. this is why Grunfeld has error so many times in the past thinking that all they need to do is add strength. If its not there during freshman year, it will never be there.

Code: Select all

Name--   Gs   FTA   Reb   Blk   Off   Hus   Deft   Total
porter-   33   -84   225   27   2.55   6.82   0.82   10.18
porter2   31   157   233   28   5.06   7.52   0.90   13.48
klnard1   34   117   336   24   3.44   9.88   0.71   14.03
klnard2   36   145   380   21   4.03   10.6   0.58   15.17
bennet-   35   177   285   43   5.06   8.14   1.23   14.43
zeller-   36   216   236   42   6.00   6.56   1.17   13.72
zeller2   36   259   289   45   7.19   8.03   1.25   16.47
adams---   32   70   203   65   2.19   6.34   2.03   10.56
len-----   22   46   119   47   2.09   5.41   2.14   9.64
len---2   38   153   298   78   4.03   7.84   2.05   13.92
olynk---   35   68   133   5-   1.94   3.80   0.14   5.89
olynk-1   32   170   235   36   5.31   7.34   1.13   13.78
noel---   24   104   227   106   4.3   9.46   4.42   18.21


Last 5-                        
Porter-   -5   -29   -35   --3   5.80   7.00   0.60   13.40
leonard   -5   -12   -44   --3   2.40   8.80   0.60   11.80
Bennet-   -5   -22   -35   --3   4.40   7.00   0.60   12.00
Zeller2   -5   -31   -39   --4   6.20   7.80   0.80   14.80
Adams--   -5   -14   -31   -12   2.8-   6.20   2.40   11.40
len----   -5   -27   -34   -15   5.4-   6.80   3.00   15.20
olynk-1   -5   -34   -50   --2   6.80   10.0   0.40   17.20
noel---   -5   -37   -51   -26   7.4-   10.2   5.20   22.80
               
Name---   Gs   FTA   Reb   Blk   Off---   Hus   Deft   Total
timdunc2   32   159   401   135   4.97   12.5   4.22   21.72
timdunc4   31   269   457   102   8.68   14.7   3.29   26.71
canthon-   35   238   349   -30   6.80   9.97   0.86   17.63
ppierc1-   34   137   180   -27   4.03   5.29   0.79   10.12
ppierc2-   38   221   253   -43   5.82   6.66   1.13   13.61
olajuwn-   34   232   500   140   6.8   14.71   4.12   25.65
cbarkly1   28   107   275   -51   3.82   9.82   1.82   15.46
cbarkly3   28   145   266   -49   5.18   9.50   1.75   16.43
pgeorge2   29   132   210   -24   4.55   7.24   0.83   12.62
mcgee1--   33   -34   -72   -30   1.03   2.18   0.91   4.12-
mcgee2--   33   141   242   -92   4.27   7.33   2.79   14.39
singleto   28   126   191   -41   4.50   6.82   1.46   12.79

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#97 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:27 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I don't have any problem with Porter as the pick but I think he takes away Webster and Ariza from established, effective roles.


The problem is that Webster has zero reliability due to injury history and that Ernie literally tried to trade Ariza so it's not like his long term prospects here are locked in whatsoever.


EG trying to bring in Caron was just mind-numbing.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#98 » by Dark Faze » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:27 pm

I think Oladipo is a classic case of trying to overthink things and try to project a player based completely on efficiency and athletic ability.

The guy has had low usage every year of his career for a reason. If you're a dominant offensive player you don't purposefully not look to attack. Maybe in year 1 you try to stay out of guys way, but by year three you should be filling it up and we're talking about Indiana here, not a stacked Kentucky team.

The stats point to Oladipo being a very smart, efficient player that can defend. Sounds like a roleplayer to me. And you can't count on his long ball because of low sample size and it not being any good until his third season.

Also thinking he's going to be a dominant defender is hard to do because it's not like he's going to just step into the league as Tony Allen. Tony Allen is about as good as you can possibly be defensively at that size.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#99 » by The Consiglieri » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:28 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote:
The entire reason I have doubts about Porter at the next level are inextricably linked to the particular qualities Leonard had, that Porter doesn't, namely, elite level athleticism, and outstanding defense that was projectable to the next level (there's a lot of sentiment out there that Porter's good to very good defense in college will be merely league average to above average at the next level due to the athleticism related issues). I love many things about Porter, but the precise reason I, and many others have concerns about him are precisely the things he lacked that Leonard had, which were elite at the next level qualities. Sure Porter was a better college player than Leonard. So what. Leonard was drafted based on his known skill set+projectable athletic ability, wherever Porter's drafted, it will be inspite of those characteristics which are lacking in him, but were present in Leonard.

Its not remotely disingenuous.

If being a better college player defined who was successful or not at the next level, the draft would be easy as hell. It isn't, because being a better college player, or a great college player doesn't necessarily mean squat when you jump up several levels in talent to the NBA.



So basically it all comes down to athleticism, despite the fact that some of the best man defenders of the last 10 years have been average to simply above average athletically--Bruce Bowen, Raja Bell, Tayshaun Prince, Shane Battier, older Ron Artest, Aaron Afflalo, etc.

The sort of system that Porter played in really can't be understated. Defensive focused, almost primarily in the half court (very very low percentage of his points scored were in transition), slow paced, and yet he still had high foul rates.

That bodes well for his offensive potential in a faster paced system that will get out in transition.


I have serious questions about a few aspects of Porter, and these questions are much bigger red flags to me, than Bennett gaining weight while injured, or even Len's highly uneven production, or Noel's injury. My first concern is the lack of athleticism, particularly on the offensive end, suggests he'll never be a difference maker on that side of the court. Now perhaps his work rate and habits (improved 3 point shot is in my view, both an outlier that isn't predictive of future production, but also an outlier that is predictive of how Otto will address issues in his game, w/WORK) can limit the issues he has in athleticism, but I tend to doubt it. I think he tops off as an average offensive weapon w/a slight chance of being above average. I worry that his ability to defend so well at Georgetown may not translate at an equal rate to the NBA. I worry that his limits athletically could leave him as no better than a solid defender at the next level, and if that happens, the pick could be a disaster.

My chief concern, as its been all along, is that he simply isn't an elite player in any phase or skill save for length. The rebounding rate is nice, and close to elite but not there, and the lack of athletic ability scares me there too, though his effort and work habits suggests he will max out whatever ability he has. Studying the draft for 25 years (in this sport in particular but also in others), the three trends that are most consistent harbingers of a dark future involve: having a lot of "good" skills, but no great ones, lacking athleticism to compete at the next level, and work habits and IQ. For me, Otto ticks off 2 of the 3 biggest red flag boxes there are. The one asset he does have, that is huge is that he does have ideal length, and his combo of work habits/work rate/BBIQ are off the charts. That could negate a great deal of the negative. The problem I have, is that I see far more "try hard, work hard" guys fail because they don't have the next level athleticism and elite skill(s), than I see guys fail that lack ideal work habits and BBIQ. You can't teach athleticism, and many of the skills. In most cases by the time you're 19-24, the development that happens is finishing touches, the key development already happened or did not happened in the players childhood or teenage hood. That's why the Spurs have eschewed using assets on so many young American players these days, the bad habits, and built in flaws that Pop hates, are already ingrained. The deal maker and deal breaker for me is to what degree a player is compromised by his lack of athleticism, or considerations on his work rate, work habits, BBIQ, athleticism, skill level etc.

For me, Otto is more compromised than Bennett, because we have far more evidence of what Otto is, than we have with Bennett. Earlier a poster suggested this was another reason to pass on Bennett, but for me it's actually a reason to focus more on Bennett. Bennett showed tremendous athleticism, and skill despite being injured for nearly a quarter of the season. What might we have? I do not know. Porter provides a bit more certainty for sure, but I simply don't think he's worth the 3 slot because of the ceiling issue. The criticism's of Bennett's issues are often more than fair, though some stray into inaccuracy, and outright fiction. Still, he definitely has more red flags in terms of concerns.

My issue is that Porter has more red flags in terms of ability to make a difference at the next level. You should not be taking a player 3rd, who you consider the 4th best option on your squad going forward. That simply makes no sense to me. If that's what you see when you evaluate him, a jack of all trades, contributor, who'll be the 4th best guy on your squad, then he has no business going 3rd, period, you should either trade down, trade the pick entirely, or pick an upside guy like a Len, or a Bennett, or a Noel if he fell, or Oladipo. I can see the justification for Porter, if you believe Pelton's analysis of him, particularly the age/length/work habits angel. Otherwise, the pick makes zero sense to me. It's aiming low and being satisfied with mediocrity for the forseeable future, and that's not good enough.

Here's that truth about it spurs article from last week:

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/the ... model.html
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VIII 

Post#100 » by Dark Faze » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:31 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I don't have any problem with Porter as the pick but I think he takes away Webster and Ariza from established, effective roles.


The problem is that Webster has zero reliability due to injury history and that Ernie literally tried to trade Ariza so it's not like his long term prospects here are locked in whatsoever.


EG trying to bring in Caron was just mind-numbing.


Between people trying to justify that move and people trying to justify Bennett gaining twenty pounds prior to draft night I've learned that people will literally argue in defense of anything.

It's one thing I love about this board--all the differing opinions...but boy oh boy.

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