NBA ChoK16 - the Rich Cho Thread

[MasterIchiro]

Ok. I'm angry at Cho for not drafting Drummond. Maybe not at 2 but he could have drafted down. His stock is rising to Demarcus Cousins levels. I'm shocked he fell so far in the draft. His floor is Andrew Bynum and his ceiling is Dwight Howard. I'm mad.

Biyombo, Biyombo, Biyombo! was the only reason why we didn't draft Drummond. I'm not mad at Cho because I understand that MKG was the safest and most logical pick that the Bobcats could've made at #2 after getting hosed by Stern for the #1 pick of Anthony Davis. It seems to me that Cho is becoming skeptical and leery of his own practices lately that helped create the OKC model by building through the draft now that he's realizing that rebuilding a team isn't as easy as 1, 2, 3 years when a Kevin Durant-like talent doesn't fall into your hands. That's likely the reason why we've been hearing about so many rumors of trade talks involving the Bobcats front office.

Sounds plausible, also very depressing. I wonder if ownership is pressuring him and he's having to readjust his plan on the fly, merging a long term draft strategy with a win-now, trading picks and expirings for established producers. It's possible that Cho was allowed a one-time big man project and he chose Biyombo. Even if he wanted Drummond there's no way ownership would have approved it.

[James Gatz]

I'd still rather have MKG over Drummond.

[Eoghan]

Small sample size. Remember when Tyreke looked like he was going to become Kobe?

Not really.

Ok. I'm angry at Cho for not drafting Drummond. Maybe not at 2 but he could have drafted down. His stock is rising to Demarcus Cousins levels. I'm shocked he fell so far in the draft. His floor is Andrew Bynum and his ceiling is Dwight Howard. I'm mad.

Biyombo, Biyombo, Biyombo! was the only reason why we didn't draft Drummond. I'm not mad at Cho because I understand that MKG was the safest and most logical pick that the Bobcats could've made at #2 after getting hosed by Stern for the #1 pick of Anthony Davis. It seems to me that Cho is becoming skeptical and leery of his own practices lately that helped create the OKC model by building through the draft now that he's realizing that rebuilding a team isn't as easy as 1, 2, 3 years when a Kevin Durant-like talent doesn't fall into your hands. That's likely the reason why we've been hearing about so many rumors of trade talks involving the Bobcats front office.

Sounds plausible, also very depressing. I wonder if ownership is pressuring him and he's having to readjust his plan on the fly, merging a long term draft strategy with a win-now, trading picks and expirings for established producers. It's possible that Cho was allowed a one-time big man project and he chose Biyombo. Even if he wanted Drummond there's no way ownership would have approved it.

Cho was hypocritical this draft. He said "draft talent, trade for need" a gazillion times since he's been hired here, implying that if he thought Drummond was the most talented player after A. Davis, he would have drafted him and traded Bismack if he thought the two couldn't coexist. In the draft special, he pretty much said that he liked Drummond a lot but had reservations of developing two raw bigs. He chickened out and went with the safer MKG and his CHOnet computer probably supported it and that's what we got.

tl;dr: Our GM isn't infallible.

[Bassman]

Dave and I were both on the wagon insisting on a big. He supported Drummond, I supported Robinson. I also said Beal would be my other choice if we wanted a scorer. I think we both supported trading down to 4 and getting an extra pick. Instead we got hyphen, a slow-developing glue guy.

Drummond looks like the better choice of bigs so far. I do think Robinson will improve but he has certainly dissapointed to date.

Beal looks like he may become the real deal. Lillard is clearly the best choice after Davis, and probably deserves ROTY. Cho did chicken out on the MKG pick. We should have traded down, picked Drummond or Beal at 4. THIS is why I do not have any issue with making a good trade for need now. No draft is infallible.

[Diop]

I was on the trade bandwagon too. Drummond at 4 and PJ3 at 24 would have been nice.

But hopefully MKG proves us all wrong and becomes the better player.
Bonnell has said a few times that he wanted TRob, but all the scouts he spoke to said that MKG was undoubtedly the next best option.

So I find it difficult to hate Cho for his decision.

[JT2006]

what's there to hate right now?

[HornetJail]

I was on the trade bandwagon too. Drummond at 4 and PJ3 at 24 would have been nice.

But hopefully MKG proves us all wrong and becomes the better player.
Bonnell has said a few times that he wanted TRob, but all the scouts he spoke to said that MKG was undoubtedly the next best option.

So I find it difficult to hate Cho for his decision.

I wanted Drummond (kind of still do, particularly since looking back, we could've traded down and gotten him and another pick to draft PJ3) but I can't fault Cho for choosing MKG. He's been inconsistent recently but we expected that, as he's 19 years old. But when he's on his game, can pretty much take over a stretch of the game.

I'm just relieved we didn't pick Robinson. That was my only worry on draft day, I really thought we were going to pick him or Barnes at #2.

[_tijo_]

MKG is beast, he will be akin to Pippen once he gets his jumpshot down. Drummond is a <50% FT shooter who dunks. Amare 2.0. Which is flashy, but won't win rings. Wait til we get McLemore, and start Kemba, McLemore, MKG. One more piece after that, we go to the ECF.

[DY_nasty]

Didn't really make that much sense to take a MASSIVE reach on Drummond when MKG was sitting right there at #2 and Nerlens/Zeller coming out next year.

[HornetJail]

MKG is beast, he will be akin to Pippen once he gets his jumpshot down. Drummond is a <50% FT shooter who dunks. Amare 2.0. Which is flashy, but won't win rings. Wait til we get McLemore, and start Kemba, McLemore, MKG. One more piece after that, we go to the ECF.

Woah, woah, slow down there a little. No way we're contenders in two years. FT% shooting can be worked on, and this is "extremely raw" Drummond we're talking about. He is going to be amazing.

Didn't really make that much sense to take a MASSIVE reach on Drummond when MKG was sitting right there at #2 and Nerlens/Zeller coming out next year.

Drummond wasn't a massive reach. He was the projected #2 pick for a long time slipped a couple spots during draft week, and then for whatever reason, fell about 4 spots more than anybody expected him to. Plus I'd take Drummond over Noel or Zeller 9/10 times.

[Elden Payton]

Drummond was nowhere near considered a top three pick, the earliest he would have went is 6 to Portland.

Revisionist history memory, also Drummond is good but hella overrated....D-Rob comparisons....

[JMAC3]

I will admit I was one of the people down on Andre Drummond. Other guys I was low on were Robinson, Barnes and Royce. Guys I was high on were Beal and Mkg.

Drummond scared me with apparent lack of work ethic and killer instinct. I will agree he has been a very solid pick thus far and shows like he could have promise in the future, but its not like if the draft were today he would be the #1 pick.

I still think MKG was the right pick for us. If we would have taken Drummond he would have to be living up to that number two pick hype. That is a lot different then 9th where people are being stunned by his ability to grab boards and dunk. He benefits by playing in Detroit where he can come off the bench, play next to a great passing big in Monroe, and doesnt have to carry the load offensively.

We would be looking for him to be a much different player.

He is averaging 7.5 pts and 7.3 rebounds compared to MKG averaging 10.2 and 6.2.

[Eoghan]

Here's my interpretation of the whole past draft:
Drummond was originally as heralded as Davis but Davis went to UK whereas Dre went to UConn. Davis and MKG became the media's darlings on a stacked UK team whereas Dre was stuck on Chucker Island. The reason why Dre slipped in the draft was b/c nobody, especially the media, evaluated his season in the proper context. That UConn team was a dysfunctional tire fire of underachievement. It was basically Charlotte last year if Paul Silas was in and out of the hospital and Kemba (Jeremy Lamb) spent the entire season throwing up as many shots as possible to elevate his draft stock. It was a lost season that hurt his numbers and development but still the flashes were there to show you that what he is doing now is not a surprise at all.

Now, if it was so apparent that Dre would be arguably a no 2 pick then why did he slip to #9? B/c if GMs "reached" on taking Dre #2, they would have been murdered in the press by not taking "winners" like Robinson or MKG. And if you're a GM on a hot seat, you can't afford to gamble b/c the vast majority of fans are basketball illiterate and just blindly believe the draft "experts" so if you run afoul of the talking heads you can be losing a bunch of butts in seats. Now, Cho wasn't in danger of getting fired per se, but Charlotte was definitely in a "they can't afford to **** this pick up" kind of hot seat.

Charlotte would have been slammed for drafting anybody outside of MKG, Robinson, or Beal. They steered clear of the undersized Robinson and while Beal was tempting, he didn't quite pass the eyeball test enough to justify a #2 pick with Hendo here. Clearly, this left MKG which they deemed not to be available if they traded down to say #4 with Cleveland. MKG was obviously a project wing. Drummond a project big. One came from a championship team and arguably the leader of that team, the other from a lost season that floated through games. The losing culture of Charlotte's lost season played a big role in drafting the uber-competitive MKG. Combine that with the possibility that drafting Drummond would have resulted in being lambasted in the media and if he didn't work out it would have been a catastrophic failure of the tank season, they went safe with MKG.

Did we screw up? Depends. In terms of building through the draft and drafting a franchise cornerstone, we would have been better off drafting Drummond. We easily could have traded down and gotten him and another nice piece. We would have thoroughly sucked for the next couple of years while Drummond develops, beneficially putting us top 4 in the next two drafts, including the coveted Wiggins draft which would have netted us a starting wing of the future if the 2013 draft didn't. Drummond could have been our Ibaka, Shabazz our Harden and Wiggins our Durant. Players that didn't pan out are easily traded for good value. Even Drummond's floor as an athletic freak center with massive potential (DeAndre Jordan, JaVale McGee) would have netted us a great return. MKG's floor of the ultimate glue guy with a horrendous jumpshot? Not so much.

BUT, here's where I pump some hope into us. Cho and Co. could still know something we don't. They saw a path to speed up the rebuild and shifted gears with the MKG pick. With the picks, expirings, cap space, and assets already on board, perhaps Charlotte is in better shape than we think and it's better to start pulling out of the nosedive and put some butts in seats sooner than later. MKG is already much more NBA ready than a 19 yo normally is and maybe a summer's worth of focusing on the jumpshot is all he needs to obtain competency. Who better to teach him how to shoot than his Airness? Kemba is making huge strides in improvement. Mullens is sucking less, Biz is sucking less, and Hendo actually has a decent 3pt shot. By next year, most of the impact players on the team are veterans for once. That's a huge factor.

So it's way too early to say we screwed up that draft. I think they merely deviated the rebuild route from long tank (Drummond, 2013 guy, Wiggins) to a slightly shorter tank (MKG, 2013 guy, 2014 guy) where the focus is on trades and FA to finalize the process. Keep the important core of this group (Kemba, MKG, maybe Biz/Mullens/Hendo/Taylor) and trade the assets/sign FAs for the stars to fill the holes along with a real coach (Sloan, Van Gundy) and the excitement of a rebrand (Hornets) and suddenly the future is looking pretty bright.

TL;DR: We're making the best lemonade we can from the lemons we were dealt.

[Elden Payton]

Being honest BD you have never been known on this board as the eternal optimist...but...this is a very good writeup and thanks for taking the time to write it and the second half of the paragraphs are spot on! great job mate and it's better than reading ESPN...lol

That said I really cannot agree with all you have said and I won't quote that Godzilla to highlight what I'm talking about so this may not make sense but here are some other perceptions.

Davis and MKG went to the best opportunity for them to develop to elite NBA prospect standard under the best college coach around, they did so knowing they would have to sacrifice their own game but have the best chance of developing and maybe, just maybe doing the impossible...

Drummond committed to his hometown college team who wasn't really recruiting him that hard and had no scholarships on offer...to be the man...because he seen an undersized, frontcourt thin, team of chuckers, who were getting a ton of hype off the back of an unexpected chip and had a legit college star perimiter player in Lamb...

Honestly with all them chuckers around how come Drummond didn't average 15 rebounds? How could he be a non-factor against college competition?, with a legit NBA caliber wing on his team????

Also MKG as the safe option??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Thomas Robinson was the safe option!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reason we couldn't trade down for MKG was that any team we traded the number two pick to would have used it to select MKG!...aside from maybe OKC who would have probably taken Beal to replace who they would have traded for the pick (Harden)

If we weren't committed to the slow rebuild then why take Biz? Why contine to play him when we know how raw he is?

As painful as it is to say I think we're a 20 win team at best this year and a 25ish win team the year after because the actual tank effect will come into play when we aren't just horrendous.

I think we are still on the slow rebuild as MKG will take time aswell...but in saying that he is the best 19 year old I've ever seen outside of Lebron and Durant

[Eoghan]

Drummond committed to his hometown college team who wasn't really recruiting him that hard and had no scholarships on offer...to be the man...because he seen an undersized, frontcourt thin, team of chuckers, who were getting a ton of hype off the back of an unexpected chip and had a legit college star perimiter player in Lamb...

Honestly with all them chuckers around how come Drummond didn't average 15 rebounds? How could he be a non-factor against college competition?, with a legit NBA caliber wing on his team????

I don't think Drummond is an Alpha male type and the sort to go to a school just for a chance to go to the tourney. Why doesn't Biz average 15 rebounds? B/c his teammates suck at rebounding, boxing out, and playing defense just like last year's UConn team. Chuckers contribute to long offensive rebounds which are usually the hardest for a post player to get. Their poor shot selection and inability to stop the ball lead to fewer rebounding opportunities on defense. It's a very rare player that can pull down double digit boards and protect the rim if your teammates aren't doing either. He wasn't a non-factor, some of his best games were against good college competition. He also had stats that were marginally worse than MKG's despite playing slightly less minutes.

Also MKG as the safe option??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Thomas Robinson was the safe option!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Easily. After we picked MKG the media and Chad "I'm a tard" Ford bent over backwards with praise. MKG was the safe "right pick" while Robinson was the safe "wrong/meh pick."

The reason we couldn't trade down for MKG was that any team we traded the number two pick to would have used it to select MKG!...aside from maybe OKC who would have probably taken Beal to replace who they would have traded for the pick (Harden)

I know, I didn't say we could've traded down and gotten MKG, I acknowledged what you said. That's part of the reason we didn't draft Drummond, MKG was good enough a prospect to take #2 (heralded by most draft experts) that it added just enough more risk to dissuade from a trade down for Drummond scenario.

If we weren't committed to the slow rebuild then why take Biz? Why contine to play him when we know how raw he is?

Totally unrelated. We took Biz b/c the point of a proper rebuild is to find that elite talent you can't draft with the late lottery draft position of a treadmill team. Biz has great potential to be a defensive juggernaut. We continue to play him for development and b/c his being raw helps the tank for upcoming drafts.

As painful as it is to say I think we're a 20 win team at best this year and a 25ish win team the year after because the actual tank effect will come into play when we aren't just horrendous.

I think we are still on the slow rebuild as MKG will take time aswell...but in saying that he is the best 19 year old I've ever seen outside of Lebron and Durant

I think we're on a slightly quicker rebuild b/c next year our key youth players will mostly be veterans and improved, we have to spend money on a FA to meet the salary floor, and our draft pick(s) this year will continue to fill some cracks. If we make a move to take on more salary for draft picks, then throw my prediction out the window, we're definitely tanking for one more season but I can't help but feel like this team is going to be ascending into a middling team next season, especially if we draft well.

[-Ian-]

I wonder how long will it take before some fans start a "Fire Cho" campaign.

[mrknowitall215]

I wonder how long will it take before some fans start a "Fire Cho" campaign.

Prematurely, but probably as soon as Cody Zeller get emphatically blocked for the 1st time in a Bobcats uniform

[Robot Rock]

I wonder how long will it take before some fans start a "Fire Cho" campaign.

Prematurely, but probably as soon as Cody Zeller get emphatically blocked for the 1st time in a Bobcats uniform

That's what I'm afraid of, that people will get down on Zeller as soon as he struggles once but continue to give Biyombo a pass in Season Three. Big guys take time to pick up the game. You have to have some patience with Zeller. I realize he's been around the game longer, but he still hasn't played in the NBA. You never know how that affects players.

[mrknowitall215]

Needless of a "Fire Cho" campaign on fan forums & boards, I have to believe that Cho is already on the hot seat with this Zeller pick after reports are that there were rumblings between the GM & Jordan because they were at odds about the selection in the war room. The fact that the consensus top prospect in Noel unexpectantly fell into their hands at 4th overall & they still chose Zeller only add fuel to Cho's fire. We shall see

[Eoghan]

This is as good a place as any for my final thoughts on this draft:

1st, it is sad that I have to preface this but this is the age we live in, I am not a Zeller hater. He is a good basketball player and was a consensus no. 1 pick before the season began. He was monumental in turning around the Indiana program. He fits many of this team's needs like a glove. And he is a good, hard working dude that will be easy to root for and fit right into the culture we're forming.

My quibble lies in Cho's mantra of "Draft for talent, trade for need." For the past two years at least, he hasn't walked the walk. I am a highly knowledgeable basketball fan, most of us are. So I get really annoyed when you serve me a plate of steamed vegetables and tell me it's steak. Zeller is not steak. Noel is steak. We know Noel is steak because the Pelicans immediately turned him into a young All-Star. Nobody is offering their All-Star for Zeller, even if we tied 2 picks around his neck to go with him. Last year, we had a giant need at SF so we drafted MKG while a franchise center, considered a no. 1 pick before the draft just like Zeller, slips right past us. Cho is drafting for need, it's so obvious. He should just own up to it, that's all. Just don't tell me that Zeller is steak like LaMarcus Aldridge or Chris Bosh, he's Spam at best. I'm not that dumb and I'm not that big a homer and neither are all those fans that threw their hats off in disgust.

Again, I'm not mad at the pick per se, Zeller could eventually turn into a David Lee or something but I'm very wary of Cho's roster building/talent acquisition skills at this point and that's not good b/c that's this teams best path to building a contender, i.e. through the draft. We're not building through the draft very well. If we draft for need and not talent next year and botch that draft, that could be the death knell for many Bobcats personnel. Cho kicks ass at trades but his ability to win drafts is in serious question.