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Glen Rice Jr.

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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#121 » by Kanyewest » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:48 pm

sfam wrote:
keynote wrote:I don't think this has any impact on Webster. Ariza came off the bench and has the expiring deal; he's the trade piece here. I fully expect EG to re-sign Webster to start at the three, with Porter coming off the bench. Webster will play some backup SG as well, alongside Porter at the 3. Rice will be a deep-bench backup SG. But I don't see anyone getting substantial minutes at the 3 other than Webster and Porter.

Now *Singleton* should be looking at this draft as (a) his cue to bulk up to stretch 4 size, and/or (b) his walking papers.

I disagree. It no longer makes sense for us to resign Webster. We have other needs that need to be filled first, including a backup PG and a stretch 4. We should use the MLE and Biannual for those. With Porter, Beal, Rice and Ariza, we really don't need another wing player.


Who is a stretch 4 that the Wizards should target this offseason? Or does it just make sense for the Wizards to go small at times ie Porter or Ariza at the 4?
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#122 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:51 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Well in principle, I'm with CCJ on this ine. I don't understand why you bring in a guy with this questionable behavior after going through such great lengths to supposedly change the culture after a recent past including the likes of Arenas, Crittenden, Blatche, etc.

If I had the pick with a gun to my head, pun intended, I would of taken Colton Iverson. I also really liked Murphy & his 45% 3pt shot. Withey and Green would of been others worth consideration there over Rice.


Super, If I go all "I told you so" in the future about Rice, I won't be talking to you.

I would have drafted any and all those guys who managed to RESPECT rules and authority well enough to not get kicked off a team after they were already 20 years old.

The Wizards castigated the character of former players but then do this. It is contradictory. If you have core values you should stick to those IMO.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#123 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:53 pm

I would have drafted Mike Muscala. Really wanted him there in the 30s. A big who can board, skilled on the block... and someone perhaps we could groom to be more physical and tough.

Rice is a 1st round talent. He's still very young and he's going to a locker room with young guys with good heads on their shoulders alongside veterans we have in the front court who will put him in line if he starts ruining his welcome (similar to Okafor yelling at Wall this past season).

We've done much, much worse in the 2nd round. It feels good to have an actual talent coming in out of the 2nd round.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#124 » by DCsOwn » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:01 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
DCsOwn wrote:I said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again, this kid is a big-time talent. He's a mid-first type of talent, especially if he sticks at the two, and he adds an extremely talented bench player to what's shaping up to be one of the two or three most talented young backcourts in the game.The kid has size, strength, athleticism, toughness, he can shoot it, he can pass it, he can drive it, he can post up twos, he can rebound and he is GREAT in transition. Barring injury or malfeasance he's making the team and I'm predicting right now that if this kid keeps his head on straight, this pick will be viewed as a steal in a few seasons. Very high on the kid.


Great word, malfeasance. :D

I hope I'm wrong. I remember Charles Barkley HATED Cousins as a draft pick. Charles generally makes good points about people but like all of us he gets it wrong.

I'm not saying I can't be wrong. On talent alone, I have said others are better players, but that could be wrong.

I HOPE you're right about this kid, DCsOwn. If he keeps his head right and plays great I will say I was wrong. I couldn't stand Wall's game for the longest and wanted him traded in the worst way. Then he proved me wrong. So, I hope this kid isn't a bad seed after all.

But just on principle I think the Wizards made a mistake. He fits the profile of just who you don't pick IMO.


Fair enough. Nothing we can do now but hope that he really has matured, but let me tell you CCJ, if he has, this kid is going to be a player. It's a roll of the dice certainly, but if we hit he's the equivalent of adding another late lottery type talent. There's literally nothing keeping him from a productive NBA career as long as he continues to work to refine his game and stays out of trouble.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#125 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:02 pm

The best part of today is the entire board except for perhaps Super and Dat thinks Rice's talent is greater than Wolters, Muscala's,' or Franklin's.

I do not.

Wolters, rocky. One name.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#126 » by keynote » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:14 pm

I'm not worried about Rice Jr tainting the locker room culture. It's one thing when the team's leaders and public faces are undisciplined, lazy, etc.; it's another when a backup 2nd-round pick gets out of line. I doubt we'll see EG/Ted coddle this guy the way the team coddled Gilbert & Blatche.

Professional sports teams are becoming less tolerant of the nonsense. When the owner puts you on notice in his blog post announcing your acquisition...

Ted wrote:To be frank, it is up to him to develop and to be a great team mate.

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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#127 » by fishercob » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:20 pm

Yeah, someone mentioned this earlier as "high risk, high reward." Rice couldn't be lower risk -- no guaranteed money (which is plainly Utah was able to trade up so cheap for Gobert), they're not depending on him for anything. He won't sign for much at all. Rice has 100% incentive to behave, improve, and earn his next contract.

I have no interest in trying to persuade CCJ or anyone else that Rice is going to be better than Wolters or Muscala or whomever. It's a pointless, fruitless exercise. Time will tell and it's besides the point at this stage.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#128 » by DCZards » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:32 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Call me names. Attack me. Show your "class" and true colors. Tell me what I should do, how I should act, what I should believe, etc.


So you don't like name calling, huh, ccj. It's classless, right. Well, here's what you've called Glen Rice Jr. in the last few hours.

Potential gangster
Jackass
Knucklehead
Gang banger
Shaky dude
Aaron Hernandez
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#129 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:36 pm

Wolters' body of work after 4 years is tremendous. I think he's as good coming into the pros as Nash or Calderon. Everything I see about his stats says that he's going to be a great PG in the NBA.

I am not trying to convince or persuade, but to my way of thinking the notion of upside shouldn't be restricted to the athleticism a certain player possesses. If a player has a very tight handle, they don't turn the ball over, they score at an elite level, and they also fill a need that player has huge upside.

Without Wall the Wizards suffer. They need a backup PG who can make plays.

They blew an opportunity to get a guy with top-20 or higher talent, but other teams passed on him, too.

By attacking Glen Rice III, a lot of people are turning on and off on me. FINE. None of you really help me raise my kids as a single dad or pay any of my bills. You don't have to like me. I do nothing for you, either.

What I want to leave off saying is this: I like to evaluate talent and play GM. I have been doing this a long time and so have you. I respect your opinions and I don't get personal over any of your ideas.

The reason I got upset is the Wizards passed on a player I think was just right for them. They took on a guy who doesn't fit the direction they say they want to go. That he's just a round two pick belies the fact that Arenas and Boozer and many other great players went in round two.

Wolters is going to be a very good player.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#130 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:38 pm

DCZards wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Call me names. Attack me. Show your "class" and true colors. Tell me what I should do, how I should act, what I should believe, etc.


So you don't like name calling, huh, ccj. It's classless, right. Well, here's what you've called Glen Rice Jr. in the last few hours.

Potential gangster
Jackass
Knucklehead
Gang banger
Shaky dude
Aaron Hernandez


No, I call plenty names.

I call the guys who make at least NBA minimum names.
I have called EG, Ted, and Flip all sorts of names.

(I have also gone back and said what moves they did that I like. I frequently say some of their moves turned out way better than I imagined they would. Still, I confess to calling them all kinds of names.)

I don't bother attacking people who post on RealGM with an opinion different than mine. I don't talk about your upbringing or even bother to go there, DCZ. You don't get paid to be in the NBA. You're not part of "public domain". We don't have to root for or against you. I think this forum should be open for all that isn't a TOS violation. I'm not that threatened or offended by anything you or anybody else says. We all have one behind and no one is better than anyone else. We also have disparate opinions. Some are more informed than others. I respect that.

You're entitled to your opinion.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#131 » by tontoz » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:02 pm

Yeah you don't want to take a risk with bad character guys. They could turn out to be locker room cancers, get suspended repeatedly, and maybe even try to start a fight with an announcer. Right CCJ?
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#132 » by Dat2U » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:12 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:The best part of today is the entire board except for perhaps Super and Dat thinks Rice's talent is greater than Wolters, Muscala's,' or Franklin's.

I do not.

Wolters, rocky. One name.


I think Franklin's talent is equal to Rice. But Rice is a much better shooter so he gets the edge IMO. Pierre Jackson is a comparable talent but I did have Rice slightly higher.

I would have not disliked the selection of Wolters but I'm not as sold on him as you are. I have questions regarding his foot speed and whether he could keep PGs in front of him as well as being quick enough to get the rim against them. I love his skill level in terms of creating space with his handles so that does give me hope in that area. Secondly, how good is his jumper. I've heard his jumper has improved but it's not like he's a pure shooter or has a knockdown quality shot. He apparently can be a bit streaky at times.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#133 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:16 pm

tontoz wrote:Yeah you don't want to take a risk with bad character guys. They could turn out to be locker room cancers, get suspended repeatedly, and maybe even try to start a fight with an announcer. Right CCJ?


You got me, there.

I think the gun part is what worries me about Rice. I believe the timing of things like Hernandez being in court, Crittenton being out and partying in LA with Nick and others, Gil getting arrested; all that made me think about what I don't like to see rewarded. I loved the heck out of Gil the basketball player, and I minimized the gun incident while he was a Wizard. I was mad at EG for getting rid of him.

Now, having watched the Spurs almost win the title, and having seen the greatest sportsmanship on a losing Wizards team; I want the squeaky clean prospects.

But, yeah, tontoz, you got me with Boogie. Challenging announcers and coaches is crossing the line. i don't think of him as a gang banger/thug. I see him as a hothead. Still, he's not squeaky clean and by my standard today is a pain.

The thing about Cousins is he's played three seasons and never with a veteran more solid than Dalembert or Chuck Hayes. I figure he would be okay with Wall, Nene, and/or Okafor around him. Beal, Porter, and the rest command respect just by the way they carry themselves.

I dunno ...
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#134 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:19 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:The best part of today is the entire board except for perhaps Super and Dat thinks Rice's talent is greater than Wolters, Muscala's,' or Franklin's.

I do not.

Wolters, rocky. One name.


I think Franklin's talent is equal to Rice. But Rice is a much better shooter so he gets the edge IMO. Pierre Jackson is a comparable talent but I did have Rice slightly higher.

I would have not disliked the selection of Wolters but I'm not as sold on him as you are. I have questions regarding his foot speed and whether he could keep PGs in front of him as well as being quick enough to get the rim against them. I love his skill level in terms of creating space with his handles so that does give me hope in that area. Secondly, how good is his jumper. I've heard his jumper has improved but it's not like he's a pure shooter or has a knockdown quality shot. He apparently can be a bit streaky at times.


Franklin and Roberson intrigue me. Both guys are outstanding rebounders who, if they develop a shot, have star potential.

Rice I've talked about enough but suffice to say "shooting" is the deal in more ways than one. :(

I would have been happy with Pierre Jackson, too.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#135 » by penbeast0 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:21 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Wolters' body of work after 4 years is tremendous. I think he's as good coming into the pros as Nash or Calderon. Everything I see about his stats says that he's going to be a great PG in the NBA.

I am not trying to convince or persuade, but to my way of thinking the notion of upside shouldn't be restricted to the athleticism a certain player possesses. If a player has a very tight handle, they don't turn the ball over, they score at an elite level, and they also fill a need that player has huge upside.

Without Wall the Wizards suffer. They need a backup PG who can make plays.

They blew an opportunity to get a guy with top-20 or higher talent, but other teams passed on him, too.

By attacking Glen Rice III, a lot of people are turning on and off on me. FINE. None of you really help me raise my kids as a single dad or pay any of my bills. You don't have to like me. I do nothing for you, either.

What I want to leave off saying is this: I like to evaluate talent and play GM. I have been doing this a long time and so have you. I respect your opinions and I don't get personal over any of your ideas.

The reason I got upset is the Wizards passed on a player I think was just right for them. They took on a guy who doesn't fit the direction they say they want to go. That he's just a round two pick belies the fact that Arenas and Boozer and may other great players went in round two.

Wolters is going to be a very good player.


Keep it up CCJ, you have a great track record with draft prediction and I enjoy reading your posts about it more than anyone else here . . . . and of course, I agree on Wolters being a much better fit for what the Wiz need than Rice.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#136 » by tontoz » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:24 pm

For the record i was hoping for Wolters since he has playmaking ability and can score. I am ok with Rice though.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#137 » by Kanyewest » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:27 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
tontoz wrote:Yeah you don't want to take a risk with bad character guys. They could turn out to be locker room cancers, get suspended repeatedly, and maybe even try to start a fight with an announcer. Right CCJ?


You got me, there.

I think the gun part is what worries me about Rice. I believe the timing of things like Hernandez being in court, Crittenton being out and partying in LA with Nick and others, Gil getting arrested; all that made me think about what I don't like to see rewarded. I loved the heck out of Gil the basketball player, and I minimized the gun incident while he was a Wizard. I was made at EG for getting rid of him.

Now, having watched the Spurs almost win the title, and having seen the greatest sportsmanship on a losing Wizards team; I want the squeaky clean prospects.

But, yeah, tontoz, you got me with Boogie. Challenging announcers and coaches is crossing the line. i don't think of him as a gang banger/thug. I see him as a hothead. Still, he's not squeaky clean and by my standard today is a pain.

The thing about Cousins is he's played three seasons and never with a veteran more solid than Dalembert or Chuck Hayes. I figure he would be okay with Wall, Nene, and/or Okafor around him. Beal, Porter, and the rest command respect just by the way they carry themselves.

I dunno ...


Perhaps if they kept one less squeaky clean guy in Stephen Jackson, they could have won the title especially when Green disappeared in game 6 and 7. Although you could also just say could kept Duncan in the final plays of game 6.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#138 » by rockymac52 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:27 pm

I'll admit that I have my concerns about Rice's personality as well, and I was very surprised that the Wizards would draft a player with a history like that after all we've been through the last few years, and FINALLY getting rid of the knuckleheads. But at the same time I have enough faith in our front office to trust that they really got to know Rice and felt very confident that he was going to stay out of trouble (even if that's naive to think, I can't help it).

I also think this is a situation where we don't have much to lose. He was a 2nd round pick. Obviously he doesn't have a guaranteed contract, so if he does anything really stupid in the next few months, he won't get one. But it also means that in the future, if he acts up or if he doesn't turn out to be very good, then fortunately we can just cut him and there won't be any real repercussions, since he'll be making less than $1 million a year.

It also seems like we haven't been showering him with love since drafting him like we have with Porter (obviously that's gonna happen to some extent when you have a top 5 pick and a 2nd rounder, but still, it doesn't seem like we're welcoming Rice with open arms). I think we're sending a very clear message to Rice: you haven't made it yet, and it's up to you to work hard and stay out of trouble and earn your minutes. I think we'll gladly sit him on the end of the bench at the start of the season if he hasn't earned the opportunity. Or he might just wait on the bench until there's an injury to one of our wings, and he's given that opportunity. We drafted him, and we "own" him to a certain extent as a result, and if this relationship between Rice and Wizards goes poorly, Rice is going to get all of the blame, and it might just be his last straw, ending his NBA dreams. The threat is at least implied, IMO. As a result, I think (hope) that Rice will work his ass off to continue to improve as much as he can, and he'll stay out of trouble and learn to embrace the team-first concept that our team finally has in the locker room and on the court. I think it can really work out for him.

What I'd be more worried about, is if he "makes it" and earns himself a contract extension in a couple years, if he falls back into his old habits now that things are finally going his way. But that's a problem for another day.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#139 » by doclinkin » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:36 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Wolters' body of work after 4 years is tremendous. I think he's as good coming into the pros as Nash or Calderon. Everything I see about his stats says that he's going to be a great PG in the NBA.

I am not trying to convince or persuade, but to my way of thinking the notion of upside shouldn't be restricted to the athleticism a certain player possesses. If a player has a very tight handle, they don't turn the ball over, they score at an elite level, and they also fill a need that player has huge upside.

Without Wall the Wizards suffer. They need a backup PG who can make plays.

They blew an opportunity to get a guy with top-20 or higher talent, but other teams passed on him, too.

...

What I want to leave off saying is this: I like to evaluate talent and play GM. I have been doing this a long time and so have you. I respect your opinions and I don't get personal over any of your ideas.

The reason I got upset is the Wizards passed on a player I think was just right for them. They took on a guy who doesn't fit the direction they say they want to go. That he's just a round two pick belies the fact that Arenas and Boozer and may other great players went in round two.

Wolters is going to be a very good player.


And that's all fair. I liked Wolters too, GRjr was off my radar screen since I tend to scout NCAA stats and there's no track record of DLeague grads other than call-ups. Plus the game is smaller at the lower level.

Fun thing is with Jrue gone from Philly, we'll get a chance to see relatively quickly if Nate is a big gauge player, he'll have opportunity to contest with MCW for that PG spot. If he's good we'll see him 4 times a year plus [cue Jim Mora].

But that said, whatever, regardless of which player proves relatively better, I suspect folks will come to appreciate Glen Rice Jr's effect on court. Good thing about CCJ is if it proves different he's the first to say "I was wrong and I was too hasty and I should have been more open hearted in welcoming a young man to our family and wishing him well'.

I'm hopeful he keeps his nose clean and has learned well from his missteps. Plenty of spoiled college kids make bad decisions relating to alcohol. (He got suspended for letting someone drink and drive his car, then some idiot took a shot while he was driving. Dumb, true. But hell I had friends blowing stuff up with fireworks or whatever). But most college kids do get a chance to turn the bad habits around and become productive adults. And here he was faced with losing the only thing he that gives him identity. Had to ride the buses in the D League. Got no PT until eventually he learned to be a professional and earned the starter's role, then from there his game took off and he led his squad to the Championship with an INSANE stat line.

I admit, I think we're going to get more production from GRjr than we'd get from Kazemi and Wolters. This team needs a combo guard, but the more footage I track down of Glen Rice Jr in college and the DLeague both, the more I like GMoney Deuce. Kid has some Tough Juice to his game. Low-post toughness and footwork. Smart passes. NBA range. Willing defense. And athleticism that Nate Wolters can't touch with any sort of long thing that pokes stuff:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wzLyW2ghkE[/youtube]

He's going to be a crowd pleaser on this squad and the one thing he does add is yet another thing we desperately need: finishing, underneath and from outside. Beal goes down hard a few times a game, a back-up swingman who can score is a need position for us. We'll be very happy we have this kid compared to Jordan Crawford who played that role for us last year. Maybe not as good a character as Mo Evans or Cartier Martin or Garret Temple anyone else who has filled the role for us in past years, but for the "dayum!" effect I think we're gonna all like this kid pretty well.

So let's all pray for him that his past was all fertilizer for what will grow fruitful and wholesome now from his work and efforts.
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Re: Glen Rice Jr. 

Post#140 » by rockymac52 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:41 pm

In the unfortunate event that one of our wings goes down with an injury, it will be a nice consolation prize that for once we have enough depth to pull somebody off of the end of the bench who is actually capable of filling in. I'm envisioning a dream scenario where somebody goes down to injury (okay I don't want anyone to get hurt, but you'll see where I'm going with this in a second), or perhaps we trade Ariza at the deadline, and Rice starts getting regular playing time. Then Rice hits the ground running, and proves he belongs in this league and deserves regular minutes. Then maybe we roll with him as our backup SG for the next year or so, and hopefully we can get his value up high enough that we could trade him at the deadline in a year or two for a valuable piece, maybe a future 1st round pick or that quality big man we desperately need. I could see him blossoming into a quality player, and since we'll have plenty of depth at the wings, we'll be able to trade him or another one of them away and cash in while their value is at its highest. That's good asset management if we can swing something like that.

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