ST: BlueJays @ RedSox June 27th-30th

Avenger · Post #201 » by **Avenger** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:22 am

well you live in a different universe where we have access to a different set of facts and Schad's cherry picking of data and citing 19 at bats worth of stats is not even worthy of a response. I gotta give you credit though, i don't think there's ever been a fan like you in the history of sports, to consistently defend as useless of a bum as there have has been,

Post #202 » by **Schad** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:23 am

Avenger wrote:well you live in a different universe where we have access to a different set of facts and Schad's cherry picking of data is not even worthy of a response

Using the last two years of his career is not exactly cherry-picking.

I gotta give you credit though, i don't think there's even a fan like you in the history of sports, to consistently defend as useless of a bum as there have has been,

No one is defending him, you git. There is a significant difference between supporting someone and being aware that it is possible to be even worse.

Lateral Quicks · Post #203 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:25 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Avenger wrote:What difference does it make when you have a moron of a manager who continues to play him everyday regardless of how much he's hurting the team? You don't even have to like Josh Thole but to even argue that he wouldn't be a significant improvement over JPK is unconscionable, again like i said before except for reliever usage Gibbons is as terrible as Farrell, there's not a creative bone in his body.

Thole is terrible. We've been over this.

The only thing JP has on Thole is the ability to hit the occasional mistake pitch from a scrub pitcher a long way. Thole has a dramatically higher career OBP, AVG, BB:K, you name it.

I really don't get your hate for Thole. No one has ever said he's the second coming, but we are saying he should be platooning with JPK. Really the team should have a better front-line catcher, and it should have been d'Arnaud.

Avenger · Post #204 » by **Avenger** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:26 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
Avenger wrote:well you live in a different universe where we have access to a different set of facts and Schad's cherry picking of data is not even worthy of a response

Using the last two years of his career is not exactly cherry-picking.

it is when one of those years happens to consist of 19 bats and other when he was suffering from post concussion symptoms . Again, show me once piece of evidence that suggests that Thole was anything less than a competent player before the concussion, go all the way back to his teenage years if you have to.

Randle McMurphy · Post #205 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:27 am

Avenger wrote:well you live in a different universe where we have access to a different set of facts and Schad's cherry picking of data is not even worthy of a response

Josh Thole's projected ZiPS line the rest of the year is 256/320/344 with a .292 wOBA and a 78wRC+.

JP Arencibia's projected ZiPS line the rest of the year is 230/273/453 with a .312 wOBA and a 91 wRC+.

I wonder why that could be.

Lateral Quicks · Post #206 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:29 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Avenger wrote:well you live in a different universe where we have access to a different set of facts and Schad's cherry picking of data is not even worthy of a response

Josh Thole's projected ZiPS line the rest of the year is 256/320/344 with a .292 wOBA and a 78wRC+.

JP Arencibia's projected ZiPS line the rest of the year is 230/273/453 with a .312 wOBA and a 91 wRC+.

I wonder why that could be.

Because he hits the occasional mistake pitch far, all the while hurting his team much more than Thole ever would on the defensive end?

Randle McMurphy · Post #207 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:30 am

Lateral Quicks wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
Avenger wrote:What difference does it make when you have a moron of a manager who continues to play him everyday regardless of how much he's hurting the team? You don't even have to like Josh Thole but to even argue that he wouldn't be a significant improvement over JPK is unconscionable, again like i said before except for reliever usage Gibbons is as terrible as Farrell, there's not a creative bone in his body.

Thole is terrible. We've been over this.

The only thing JP has on Thole is the ability to hit the occasional mistake pitch from a scrub pitcher a long way. Thole has a dramatically higher career OBP, AVG, BB:K, you name it.

I really don't get your hate for Thole. No one has ever said he's the second coming, but we are saying he should be platooning with JPK. Really the team should have a better front-line catcher, and it should have been d'Arnaud.

I don't have hate for Thole. I have an ability to recognize that he's an awful catcher who can't hit or field.

And this whole d'Arnaud thing is an entirely different discussion better served for a different day.

BigLeagueChew · Post #208 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:30 am

They both suck.

Avenger · Post #209 » by **Avenger** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:30 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
No one is defending him, you git. There is a significant difference between supporting someone and being aware that it is possible to be even worse.

Well you havent read the dozens of posts that suggests the opposite where Randle keeps citing phantom wrist injuries for why Arencibia is not playing to his potential.

Lateral Quicks · Post #210 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:31 am

Damn, if Johnson doesn't play well, that leaves Reyes as the only good piece from that mega-trade. It's looking increasingly like AA got hosed on that deal too (perhaps not in talent, but assuming all that salary for so little production isn't worth it).

Post #211 » by **Schad** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:32 am

Avenger wrote:it is when one of those years happens to consist of 19 bats and other when he was suffering from post concussion symptoms . Again, show me once piece of evidence that suggests that Thole was anything less than a competent player before the concussion, go all the way back to his teenage years if you have to.

Thole's carrying a career 82 wRC+, .292 wOBA. Arencibia's at 88 and .303. JP has massive holes in his game, but he's also a better offensive option, and both are complete butchers defensively.

On d'Arnaud, I agree. It's part of the reason I hated that trade.

Randle McMurphy · Post #212 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:33 am

Lateral Quicks wrote:Because he hits the occasional mistake pitch far,

Because he's a better hitter than Thole, yes.

all the while hurting his team much more than Thole ever would on the defensive end?

You're aware that Thole is also a bad defensive catcher, no?

shotcaller09 · Post #213 » by **shotcaller09** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:37 am

and game!

Avenger · Post #214 » by **Avenger** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:37 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
Avenger wrote:it is when one of those years happens to consist of 19 bats and other when he was suffering from post concussion symptoms . Again, show me once piece of evidence that suggests that Thole was anything less than a competent player before the concussion, go all the way back to his teenage years if you have to.

Thole's carrying a career 82 wRC+, .292 wOBA. Arencibia's at 88 and .303. JP has massive holes in his game, but he's also a better offensive option, and both are complete butchers defensively.

On d'Arnaud, I agree. It's part of the reason I hated that trade.

Thole had a .350 OBP across his non concussed seasons, JP Arencibia is one the league's worst three years running. Thole has massive holes in his game but he's the better offensive option and both are complete butchers defensively except Thole can actually frame pitches.

11x · Post #215 » by **11x** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:37 am

Gibby looks happy :|

Post #216 » by **Schad** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:37 am

Sign that we're not going to win tonight: a two-run single off a 3-2 pitch that fooled the hitter so badly that he hit it on the bounce.

HSOB SIRHC · Post #217 » by **HSOB SIRHC** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:38 am

Seems like they can't even miss!

Lateral Quicks · Post #218 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:39 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Lateral Quicks wrote:Because he hits the occasional mistake pitch far,

Because he's a better hitter than Thole, yes.

all the while hurting his team much more than Thole ever would on the defensive end?

You're aware that Thole is also a bad defensive catcher, no?

There is a 60 basis point difference between Thole's and Arencibia's career OBP. His career BB:K ratio is 94:130 versus JPK's 64:337. In what world does this make JPK a better hitter than Thole?

JP is a butcher behind the plate; Thole is merely mediocre. Some of his defensive stats. look especially bad because of catching the knuckler so much in his brief career.

Raptor_Guy · Post #219 » by **Raptor_Guy** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:39 am

Didn't take long for that whole 11 game win streak to wear off, they look as bad as they did in April now.

Randle McMurphy · Post #220 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:39 am

Avenger wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:
No one is defending him, you git. There is a significant difference between supporting someone and being aware that it is possible to be even worse.

Well you havent read the dozens of posts that suggests the opposite where Randle keeps citing phantom wrist injuries for why Arencibia is not playing to his potential.

More blatant trolling. There's nothing phantom about Arencibia breaking his hand and his thumb in 2011 and 2012...he was out for weeks with those injuries.

And I've never said such injuries were responsible for his poor offense. I've only said, like you with Thole and his concussion, that he could potentially be a better hitter without them.