2013 Draft Thread Part 4

JohnVancouver · Post #881 » by **JohnVancouver** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:41 pm

gaspar wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/gswscribe/status/350457349435166720[/tweet]

I had to work back to back shifts so I missed the draft and all of today until now -

whats going on here? Lee? GSW? Huh?

Post #882 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:44 pm

Well, three of the teams that passed on McLemore ahead of us drafted a sg high in the last couple of years, and the other one took Oladipo. So that leaves the one other team that passed on him, New Orleans, which had a trade in the works for Noel. Us passing on him doesn't make sense. I hope the front office knows what they were doing, but otherwise I guess we'll have to chalk it up to a rookie mistake.

McDonough has been scouting Len and Goodwin for years, so he was probably high on them well before this year. McLemore had a surprising year and climbed draft boards by showing it, whereas other guys like Shabazz and Goodwin fell because they couldn't live up to the hype. There's a good chance McDonough just had been focused on guys that have been highly touted for years, that he has never really scouted McLemore early, so he put too much stock into a workout, instead of relying on what the guy did on the court last year. (Funny thing is, Len didn't even work out though).

Post #883 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:46 pm

I found a guy who had almost IDENTICAL stats to Goodwin when he was a freshman, and also slid into the draft and became an all star. Gilbert Arenas. Check out their numbers side by side.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compar ... ert-arenas

ShawnBronald · Post #884 » by **ShawnBronald** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:49 pm

JohnVancouver wrote:
gaspar wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/gswscribe/status/350457349435166720[/tweet]

I had to work back to back shifts so I missed the draft and all of today until now -

whats going on here? Lee? GSW? Huh?

We got Malcolm Lee as part of the trade that got us Archie Goodwin.

thamadkant · Post #885 » by **thamadkant** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:25 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I found a guy who had almost IDENTICAL stats to Goodwin when he was a freshman, and also slid into the draft and became an all star. Gilbert Arenas. Check out their numbers side by side.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compar ... ert-arenas

Hoping Goodwin actually follows Westbrook path.. An aerial athletic PG who can score and play make.

Buy having Arena's shooting confidence and ability would be welcome.

I think Hornacek and McD should not rush him in... Need to get his confidence up, give him shooting coaches and let him experiment in the D-league for 10 games or so... Then give him 20-25 minutes in the second half of the season.. The guy is only 18-19... Rather build his confidence up and skills rather than him losing confidence against veterans.

Stix · Post #886 » by **Stix** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:36 pm

ShawnBronald wrote:
JohnVancouver wrote:
gaspar wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/gswscribe/status/350457349435166720[/tweet]

I had to work back to back shifts so I missed the draft and all of today until now -

whats going on here? Lee? GSW? Huh?

We got Malcolm Lee as part of the trade that got us Archie Goodwin.

We also moved 1 spot down... to do it... makes no sense.

carey · Post #887 » by **carey** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:40 pm

Son of Ra wrote:@Press conference:
So if they have been watching him three years ago in Lithuania and knew they had something there, why didn't McDonough lock him in with a Boston second round pick a while back?

Not too familiar with how the draft works huh? Hehe.

carey · Post #888 » by **carey** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:42 pm

BeazTreez wrote:
ShawnBronald wrote:
JohnVancouver wrote:
I had to work back to back shifts so I missed the draft and all of today until now -

whats going on here? Lee? GSW? Huh?

We got Malcolm Lee as part of the trade that got us Archie Goodwin.

We also moved 1 spot down... to do it... makes no sense.

No. We moved up a spot. Also listen to McDonough on Burns and Gambo today. He said as soon as he made the pick he got a dozen texts from people saying that Archie was their guy.

Post #889 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:43 pm

1UPZ wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I found a guy who had almost IDENTICAL stats to Goodwin when he was a freshman, and also slid into the draft and became an all star. Gilbert Arenas. Check out their numbers side by side.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compar ... ert-arenas

Hoping Goodwin actually follows Westbrook path.. An aerial athletic PG who can score and play make.

Buy having Arena's shooting confidence and ability would be welcome.

I think Hornacek and McD should not rush him in... Need to get his confidence up, give him shooting coaches and let him experiment in the D-league for 10 games or so... Then give him 20-25 minutes in the second half of the season.. The guy is only 18-19... Rather build his confidence up and skills rather than him losing confidence against veterans.

Yeah, Westbrook passed a little more as a soph than Goodwin did as a freshman (I looked at their comps too) but as a freshman, Westbrook barely did much at all (just played 9 minutes a game). I think what that says as an example is that there still is probably considerable upside after the freshman year. Arenas was quite a bit better as a sophomore when he came out too. Playing with Noel probably didn't help him get too many assists either since Noel was pretty raw offensively. I just wish him and Dragic could shoot better from the outside, and, if they could, I think they could probably potentially be a pretty dynamic backcourt.

thamadkant · Post #890 » by **thamadkant** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:50 pm

How about make Dragic eventually Ginobili lite by being sixth man who plays PG/SG at 28-30 minutes a game.
And make Goodwin PG/SG, and a SG/SF in next years draft.

If they keep Dudley he can be a spot up SG.

But Goodwin at PG solves defensive woes against dynamic PGs like Rose, Westbrook etc because Goodwin is longer than them and can bother their speed and athleticism.

Wouldn't mind Tyreke Evans but now with Goodwin no need for another ball handler who isn't a sharp shooter.

Who are sharp shooting SGs who are under 25 years old, who suns can target??

Post #891 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:01 am

The only ones I've thought of are Brandon Rush (who I believe has an opt out clause, but he may opt in coming off an injury), and then you also have Mayo (who opted out). Rush shot 45% from 3 two years ago and was injured this year, Mayo shot 40% this year.

But we know Mayo wants to make some money. Then you have Redick who I think the Bucks will try and keep.

Since we are going really young though, I don't know how much sense it makes to sign a vet free agent sg for much though. That's why it would have been nice to get one in the draft.

I'm still hoping we can trade Gortat and/or Scola for one. I wouldn't mind hanging onto Dudley for a little while as a vet to help young guys though, unless we can get a good offer for him. Dudley makes sense in places like Minnesota or OKC since they are ready to make the playoffs. We could maybe get DWill or Lamb or something, but I don't know if that is better than having Dudley (not sure if those guys are busts)

Assuming Portland doesn't get Pekovic (I imagine they will give him an offer...maybe a high one because Minn and Portland keep doing it to each other) we can offer up Gortat for McCollum and maybe Withey.

Assuming they will not give us McCollum and want him as a 6th man, I would probably at this point try and offer Gortat for Crabbe and Leonard. That at least would give us a shooter and a backup center who could develop with Len and maybe be future trade bait.

RunSunRun · Post #892 » by **RunSunRun** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:16 am

Not a fan of Goodwin at PG because its not his natural position. Most of his struggles at Kentucky can be attributed to his playing out of position, he averaged 3.1 turnovers compared to 2.7 assists. Also, from what I remember, many scouts said he just doesn't have the point guard mindset and plays more like a shooting guard.

He has tremendous upside due to his youth and his stellar athleticism, but SG seems like his natural position more than anything. Would hate to see us force him to play PG if he's not comfortable doing so.

Post #893 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:20 am

RunSunRun wrote:Not a fan of Goodwin at PG because its not his natural position. Most of his struggles at Kentucky can be attributed to his playing out of position, he averaged 3.1 turnovers compared to 2.7 assists. Also, from what I remember, many scouts said he just doesn't have the point guard mindset and plays more like a shooting guard.

He has tremendous upside due to his youth and his stellar athleticism, but SG seems like his natural position more than anything. Would hate to see us force him to play PG if he's not comfortable doing so.

If he can become a good shooter, I'm all for that. When I was looking for comps for him, and found Arenas, I noticed he shot 29% from 3 as a freshmen (Goodwin shot 26%). But Arenas shot 41% from 3 as a soph, so that gave me hope. And Goodwin has two inches on Arenas so that makes him more of a candidate for sg.

Here were Arenas' improvements from fresh to soph year in college (his frosh year was almost identical to Goodwin's http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... nas-1.html

I was just confused that they said they would plan on him playing pg...but maybe that was just a rumor..who said that?

JMac1 · Post #894 » by **JMac1** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:23 am

RunSunRun wrote:Not a fan of Goodwin at PG because its not his natural position. Most of his struggles at Kentucky can be attributed to his playing out of position, he averaged 3.1 turnovers compared to 2.7 assists. Also, from what I remember, many scouts said he just doesn't have the point guard mindset and plays more like a shooting guard.

He has tremendous upside due to his youth and his stellar athleticism, but SG seems like his natural position more than anything. Would hate to see us force him to play PG if he's not comfortable doing so.

He is 18...in three years he will be 21

I like what the above poster said about him guarding the dynamic PG's.... He can play back-up for a while to see how he grows, no rush there. Place a 3-D player next to him...cough, cough..... maybe Wes continues to grow. I wouldn't mind giving Wes a full season as starter to see if he could b a 3-D guy.

RunSunRun · Post #895 » by **RunSunRun** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:28 am

bwgood77 wrote:
I was just confused that they said they would plan on him playing pg...but maybe that was just a rumor..who said that?

It was mentioned last night when we took him, Horny said this (from http://valleyofthesuns.com/2013/06/27/a ... nba-draft/)

“Obviously he’s going to need to learn the game better,” Hornacek said when Phoenix worked out Goodwin. “He’s used to being a scorer. He can still be a scorer but he’s going to have to be, more the mental part of the game … a point guard. Really see the game, see how it develops, not only for himself but for his teammates. When you got a young kid like that, those are the guys you can kind of train. You can tell he has a feel.”

So maybe they are thinking of keeping him at SG, but having him be a ball handler at times as well, which would suit his strengths. Just think it would be a mistake to try to have him just being a primary PG.

Son of Ra · Post #896 » by **Son of Ra** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:31 am

carey wrote:
Son of Ra wrote:@Press conference:
So if they have been watching him three years ago in Lithuania and knew they had something there, why didn't McDonough lock him in with a Boston second round pick a while back?

Not too familiar with how the draft works huh? Hehe.

Yeah, like I said earlier I thought that foreign players/players in other leagues were just up for grabs basically. Know how it works with the guys here though.

Post #897 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:37 am

RunSunRun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I was just confused that they said they would plan on him playing pg...but maybe that was just a rumor..who said that?

It was mentioned last night when we took him, Horny said this (from http://valleyofthesuns.com/2013/06/27/a ... nba-draft/)

“Obviously he’s going to need to learn the game better,” Hornacek said when Phoenix worked out Goodwin. “He’s used to being a scorer. He can still be a scorer but he’s going to have to be, more the mental part of the game … a point guard. Really see the game, see how it develops, not only for himself but for his teammates. When you got a young kid like that, those are the guys you can kind of train. You can tell he has a feel.”

So maybe they are thinking of keeping him at SG, but having him be a ball handler at times as well, which would suit his strengths. Just think it would be a mistake to try to have him just being a primary PG.

I'm going to work under that assumption then, mostly because it will make me feel better. Kendall Marshall is probably taking the same approach. :wink:

JTrain · Post #898 » by **JTrain** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:50 am

Can someone explain the trade with Golden State? I'm confused about the trading one spot thing.

nevetsov · Post #899 » by **nevetsov** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:26 am

We Took on the small salary of Malcolm Lee for the exchange of picks (29 and 30).

Theory is someone else was chasing the GSW pick to nab Archie ahead of us (for perhaps cash?) and we really wanted him, so we made the above deal to ensure we landed him.

SunsFever · Post #900 » by **SunsFever** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:18 am

“Obviously he’s going to need to learn the game better,” Hornacek said when Phoenix worked out Goodwin. “He’s used to being a scorer. He can still be a scorer but he’s going to have to be, more the mental part of the game … a point guard. Really see the game, see how it develops, not only for himself but for his teammates. When you got a young kid like that, those are the guys you can kind of train. You can tell he has a feel.”

But that also means that he'll have to work hard at it. Or in other words he's not very good at it

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