WT- Nate unlikely to be back (WAIT! + instagram pic pg 81!)

[Rerisen]

Team Comparison:

Team A

45-37

Off Rtg 103.5 (23rd), Def Rtg 103.2 (6th)

Team B

46-36

Off Rtg 104.9 (23rd), Def Rtg 103.1 (2nd)

Pretty similar eh? Team A is this year's Bulls. Team B is the 2010 Milwaukee Bucks.

Adding Derrick Rose to the 2010 Bucks does not make a championship team. Adding Derrick Rose to the 2013 Chicago Bulls also does not make a championship team in my view. Even moreso without Nate.

Not without additional and efficient offensive additions. It's pretty clear that Nate Robinson is unlikely to be one of those. I hope the Bulls have plans bigger than John Lucas and some late pick rooks.

[tre11408]

Nate deserves to go out and get his big pay day, his first of his career after bouncing around from team to team practically ever season. That said, he played himself out of our price range, and it happens. If anything, if you're a guard or big man and looking for an opportunity to play for a good team, and showcase your talents in a big market where you'll be winning, the Bulls would be a desirable place to play.

Nate signed a 3-year, $12.7 million in the summer of 2009- with the Knicks, who traded him in February of 2010.

[kulaz3000]

Nate deserves to go out and get his big pay day, his first of his career after bouncing around from team to team practically ever season. That said, he played himself out of our price range, and it happens. If anything, if you're a guard or big man and looking for an opportunity to play for a good team, and showcase your talents in a big market where you'll be winning, the Bulls would be a desirable place to play.

Nate signed a 3-year, $12.7 million in the summer of 2009- with the Knicks, who traded him in February of 2010.

Ah, I didn't know that - either way, he is young enough to want to still get as much money as he can. It's not like he is a former max-player who now just wants to go somewhere to win a ring. Again, I'm never going to hate on a player who has been overlooked most of his career and earned his way to a nice payday.

[Saphir]

People need to relax some. From what it seems like from various reporters, the Bulls feel like Nate has played himself out of what they can offer.

As a point of reference, look at JJ Barea's 4 year/$18 mil deal. I would not be surprised if Nate's earned himself something in that price range. Now obviously if Nate signs for less than the ~$3 mil a year that the MMLE would give him, we have a problem, but we'll have plenty of time to get angry about it later.

[tre11408]

Nate deserves to go out and get his big pay day, his first of his career after bouncing around from team to team practically ever season. That said, he played himself out of our price range, and it happens. If anything, if you're a guard or big man and looking for an opportunity to play for a good team, and showcase your talents in a big market where you'll be winning, the Bulls would be a desirable place to play.

Nate signed a 3-year, $12.7 million in the summer of 2009- with the Knicks, who traded him in February of 2010.

Ah, I didn't know that - either way, he is young enough to want to still get as much money as he can. It's not like he is a former max-player who now just wants to go somewhere to win a ring. Again, I'm never going to hate on a player who has been overlooked most of his career and earned his way to a nice payday.

No doubt, nobody should fault him for going after as much money as he can make.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Once again, it's likely that the Bulls' season is going to come down on the shoulders of Derrick Rose in the playoffs. Apparently, it's going to take yet another playoff defeat for Bulls management to realize we don't have enough offense.

What do you mean "yet another?" We've only had one playoff defeat with this core, and that was their first run and Thibs' rookie season. I think we'll do better on the second try. Have you seen Derrick Rose's shoulders lately? They look ready to carry a big load.

I think we are title contenders with the team as it is, assuming Rose returns to form. I do think having Nate would increase our chances significantly, though.

You better hope Rose learned how to score on LeBron in the 4th.

[donaldtrump_00]

Replacing his tools, on ball shot creation, additional playmaking, flat out aggression, and efficient scoring, will be of extreme importance. Especially with the Bulls now drafting two more limited shooter types.

Jon Lucas was cut by Toronto, so there you go. He will be Nate's replacement. Our FO's big signing.

smh. haven't I been saying all along that the bulls need to address the 2nd ball handler shot creator every since they lost to the dam heat. now after nate finally says he not coming back now everybody want to start up the we need a 2nd shot creator and even tho we already knew this but I even said john lucus will be back also because hes the only option left. paxson had this in mind the whole way. but I would still search for the best option available. we definently need a back up pg because kirk cant play a full 82. I don't understand why this thread is so long when its something we knew was going to happen

[donaldtrump_00]

pax and gar are more happy with kirks ability to defend and create the offense more then having nate score. nates not coming back and now do we resign marco now. if Teague can step his game up nobody would be mad. all he needs to do is get a mid range jump shot and attack the rim more. im sure Teague can do that. its not asking a lot. he has a 40 inch verticle from what I hear so if struggling has to stop at some point. we already know thibs is the reason he was so scared out there. telling him to pass the ball and stay out the way

[dougthonus]

sign Jerryd Bayless for 3mil like Memphis did. Better, younger an way more potential

So you're upset with the Bulls choice, sure, I get it. I also didn't want Hinrich either. They identified Hinrich as the guy they wanted though. You referenced that he was overpaid, I referenced that he took less money than to come to Chicago than elsewhere, so it's unreasonable to think we could have gotten him for less.

There are plenty of reasons to like Hinrich more than Bayless. It would have been very hard to go a whole season with Bayless as your starting PG given that he's far more of a combo guard than PG and isn't the type to get other guys involved. It'd be more like having two Nate Robinson's on your team and probably wouldn't have worked out as well.

That said, if we signed Bayless, we still wouldn't be bringing Nate back, and I don't think the team would be in any better position than it is right now with Bayless as the backup instead of Hinrich. Potential is sort of moot isn't it? We're not counting a lot on whomever the guy in this position is this season, nor is it someone we're expecting to be around after this season.

[Chitownbulls]

Bulls arnt winning any title until they get a #2 scorer imo

History tells us that...not saying that's nate but we need a #2 before we win anything

[dougthonus]

Is this a slight exaggeration? I thought we could offer him at most 3 mil. So with the lux tax isn't that 6 mil. I thought it was a dollar for every dollar, am I mistaken? Or is there something else that increases his possible salary?

Granted, your point would still stand, six mil for a back-up that doesn't play well off the ball (so probably would be limited to court time pairing with Butler or Kirk)...but 8-9 million does make it seem a little worse than it really would be (if I'm correct in my understanding of the tax rules)

Tax now starts off at 1.5:1 not 1:1. At 1.5:1, we'd pay out a total of 8 million for Nate (3.2 salary + 4.8 tax), but then it increases to 1.75:1 when you are over 5 million above the tax which would make it 8.8 million total. I'm not 100% certain where the Bulls are on the tax payout scale, but I believe they're already in the second tier and if not, resigning Nate definitely puts them in it, which means it's closer to 9 million most likely than 8.

[dougthonus]

Yeah, like 1.5 Mil for 2 years and 3 million under the table..we can do that right?

That's how I got paid from my courier job I had..wasn't on the payroll, got paid under the table

Worked out well for the Timberwolves and Joe Smith. Why would we want to have a draft pick again in the next decade anyway!

[dougthonus]

What irks me is that we aren't going to spend the MMLE on Nate Rob not because we want to spend it on someone else, but because we probably won't use it at all. (Sorry, by "we" I mean GarPax). I've never been a FO basher, and I like Snell pick, but this is going to really frustrate me.

Frustrates me too.

I think it comes down to a couple things, the first is the MMLE puts 3 million on your books next year which they probably don't want, and secondly it costs them 8-9 million dollars in real payouts, and they probably figure no guy taken is worth near nine million on the court. It's kind of hard to argue with that.

[Chitownbulls]

sign Jerryd Bayless for 3mil like Memphis did. Better, younger an way more potential

So you're upset with the Bulls choice, sure, I get it. I also didn't want Hinrich either. They identified Hinrich as the guy they wanted though. You referenced that he was overpaid, I referenced that he took less money than to come to Chicago than elsewhere, so it's unreasonable to think we could have gotten him for less.

There are plenty of reasons to like Hinrich more than Bayless. It would have been very hard to go a whole season with Bayless as your starting PG given that he's far more of a combo guard than PG and isn't the type to get other guys involved. It'd be more like having two Nate Robinson's on your team and probably wouldn't have worked out as well.

That said, if we signed Bayless, we still wouldn't be bringing Nate back, and I don't think the team would be in any better position than it is right now with Bayless as the backup instead of Hinrich. Potential is sort of moot isn't it? We're not counting a lot on whomever the guy in this position is this season, nor is it someone we're expecting to be around after this season.

My opinion is this....

Bayless-valuable trade bait that's teams would want
Hinrich- No one wants him for 4mil but us

Bayless would have been able to put up 13-15ppg 6-7assist as starter an probsbly stay healthy while doing it. Thats all I'm saying. He would have been much easier to move. But we went after the guy we know which wasn't a good idea imo

[dougthonus]

My opinion is this....

Bayless-valuable trade bait that's teams would want
Hinrich- No one wants him for 4mil but us

Bayless would have been able to put up 13-15ppg 6-7assist as starter an probsbly stay healthy while doing it. Thats all I'm saying. He would have been much easier to move. But we went after the guy we know which wasn't a good idea imo

I think the Bulls record with Hinrich was much better than it would have been with Bayless, and I think that gained them at least one spot in the playoff seedings, and I think that got them exactly one round deeper in the playoffs.

In that sense, I think they were much better off doing what they did. Bayless isn't a real PG, Hinrich is. We needed a real PG. That became even more clear last season when we watched it play out IMO.

[dougthonus]

Bulls arnt winning any title until they get a #2 scorer imo

History tells us that...not saying that's nate but we need a #2 before we win anything

This seems most likely. I don't think Nate is that guy. In fact, I'm quite certain Nate is not that guy.

That said, I agree we need that guy, but I also think there's no clear path to obtain him. The most likely way to obtain him is to hope you can make something happen next year when you have cap room and can force an unbalanced trade due to taking salary back. That doesn't mean it will work (it probably won't) but it's far more likely next season than it is this season.

That's why I think this season instead of pursing solutions that clearly won't work but then limit the solution that might work next season, they'll instead do the best they can to keep this core together without impacting next season and hope for the best next year.

The bigger question will be what happens to Miami in a year. If they stay together or break up it also changes considerably what you're attempting to do and what your target is.

[Proven_Winner]

Once again, it's likely that the Bulls' season is going to come down on the shoulders of Derrick Rose in the playoffs. Apparently, it's going to take yet another playoff defeat for Bulls management to realize we don't have enough offense.

What do you mean "yet another?" We've only had one playoff defeat with this core, and that was their first run and Thibs' rookie season. I think we'll do better on the second try. Have you seen Derrick Rose's shoulders lately? They look ready to carry a big load.

I think we are title contenders with the team as it is, assuming Rose returns to form. I do think having Nate would increase our chances significantly, though.

You better hope Rose learned how to score on LeBron in the 4th.

You mean learn how to beat the double team because Lebron is the last of his problems compared to Miami's double team.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Once again, it's likely that the Bulls' season is going to come down on the shoulders of Derrick Rose in the playoffs. Apparently, it's going to take yet another playoff defeat for Bulls management to realize we don't have enough offense.

What do you mean "yet another?" We've only had one playoff defeat with this core, and that was their first run and Thibs' rookie season. I think we'll do better on the second try. Have you seen Derrick Rose's shoulders lately? They look ready to carry a big load.

I think we are title contenders with the team as it is, assuming Rose returns to form. I do think having Nate would increase our chances significantly, though.

You better hope Rose learned how to score on LeBron in the 4th.

If Kyle Korver and others would have made the wide open shots that Rose set them up for during the "Lebron defense", we wouldn't even be discussing this. Hell, we may have advanced to the Finals to face Dallas that season.

[Wingy]

between Kirk, Teague and Snell, Nate's added salary is pretty much superfluous. Those other salaries gotta play. If the Bulls took a big last night at 20, Maaaybe Nate still had a shot here. But they didn't so he doesn't.

Say what?!? I like the Snell pick, but to act like he's an auto plug in for decent minutes is a big assumption for any rookie on a contending team.

Doesn't matter if its Nate specifically, but this team badly...BADLY needs someone to fill his role. With it I could see us having a 50/50ish shot vs Miami. Without, we'll be that plucky team that sure always puts up a good fight, but can't get it done with 1 shot creator

[RastaBull]

Is this a slight exaggeration? I thought we could offer him at most 3 mil. So with the lux tax isn't that 6 mil. I thought it was a dollar for every dollar, am I mistaken? Or is there something else that increases his possible salary?

Granted, your point would still stand, six mil for a back-up that doesn't play well off the ball (so probably would be limited to court time pairing with Butler or Kirk)...but 8-9 million does make it seem a little worse than it really would be (if I'm correct in my understanding of the tax rules)

Tax now starts off at 1.5:1 not 1:1. At 1.5:1, we'd pay out a total of 8 million for Nate (3.2 salary + 4.8 tax), but then it increases to 1.75:1 when you are over 5 million above the tax which would make it 8.8 million total. I'm not 100% certain where the Bulls are on the tax payout scale, but I believe they're already in the second tier and if not, resigning Nate definitely puts them in it, which means it's closer to 9 million most likely than 8.

Gotcha...wow. I just looked at an explanation (knew it was 1:1 last year, didn't realize the more stringent policy kicked in this year): http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Wow, that would seem like a really extraordinary move by the CBA. Too bad it doesn't seem to be changing a whole lot, cause the ridiculously wealthy are just going deeper. Miami's gona be paying at least 2.50:1 and Brooklyn paying more than 3.25:1. Can't wait for both teams to be in the repeater tax in another year.