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WT- Nate unlikely to be back (WAIT! + instagram pic pg 81!)

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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#201 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:55 pm

RastaBull wrote:Gotcha...wow. I just looked at an explanation (knew it was 1:1 last year, didn't realize the more stringent policy kicked in this year): http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Wow, that would seem like a really extraordinary move by the CBA. Too bad it doesn't seem to be changing a whole lot, cause the ridiculously wealthy are just going deeper. Miami's gona be paying at least 2.50:1 and Brooklyn paying more than 3.25:1. Can't wait for both teams to be in the repeater tax in another year.


Agreed, the new tax scale is going to be an effective hard cap for most teams. You can see teams venturing into the 1.5:1 area, but the days of going well into the tax are likely over for everyone except possibly the Lakers or Knicks (who's revenues will make it possible). However, with the new revenue sharing plan, that may not work out so well for them either (though I don't think the exact details of how much the big market teams have to share has been released, it is supposed to be fairly significant).

Especially when you get to repeater tax. I don't think even the Lakers will sit in around 20 million over the tax regularly anymore. The amount they pay becomes obscene pretty fast, especially if repeater tax kicks in.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#202 » by Red Larrivee » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:02 pm

Rerisen wrote:Offensively we make up rationales for why we can lose one of our best offensive players last year, probably the best, and likely replace him with someone just flat out worse. It's weird.

Defensively, would anyone ever write that we don't need Gibson or Deng because they just duplicate what Noah does? We don't need Jimmy Butler because he just duplicates Kirk a solid fundamental defender?

This team is badly lopsided toward defense and losing Nate for a worse offensive fill in is only going to increase the imbalance.

Clinging to that #5 offensive rating from 2012 is very dated comfort as well. Even then it was overly bolstered by offensive rebounding, which teams buckle down on stopping late in games. This team will also have a 2 year older Boozer, no Korver, and an unknown production level from our MVP, trying to ringlead it all on that end.

Take Nate off this team and we may well have been the worst offensive team in the league last season. Expecting Rose alone to not only perform like an MVP, but bring all our other struggling committee scores back up to respectability, and drag that rating all the way up from bottom third, to top 5 or 7, which is championship level, is expecting a hell of a lot.

Is Nate the ideal guy, position, height, etc, to be that secondary creator and assistance as a playmaker? No he is not. But who are we going to get in his place that is better, as good, or that we can afford. Hard to see a positive answer.


Well we thought Ben Gordon was expendable because we just signed Jannero Pargo. So as long as we have Teague here to miss shots and defend, we should be dandy.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#203 » by Bulls Revenge » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:10 pm

Chitownbulls wrote:If they strike out next summer, I don't know what to say

They have been talking about the future the last 15years....the future IS NOW


Amen Brother...Amen!
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#204 » by MR IB4TL » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:26 pm

Typical Bulls mismanagement- How can you get rid of the best player of the past playoffs? It's nonsensical.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#205 » by RastaBull » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:31 pm

Rerisen wrote:Offensively we make up rationales for why we can lose one of our best offensive players last year, probably the best, and likely replace him with someone just flat out worse. It's weird.

Defensively, would anyone ever write that we don't need Gibson or Deng because they just duplicate what Noah does? We don't need Jimmy Butler because he just duplicates Kirk a solid fundamental defender?

This team is badly lopsided toward defense and losing Nate for a worse offensive fill in is only going to increase the imbalance.

Clinging to that #5 offensive rating from 2012 is very dated comfort as well. Even then it was overly bolstered by offensive rebounding, which teams buckle down on stopping late in games. This team will also have a 2 year older Boozer, no Korver, and an unknown production level from our MVP, trying to ringlead it all on that end.

Take Nate off this team and we may well have been the worst offensive team in the league last season. Expecting Rose alone to not only perform like an MVP, but bring all our other struggling committee scores back up to respectability, and drag that rating all the way up from bottom third, to top 5 or 7, which is championship level, is expecting a hell of a lot.

Is Nate the ideal guy, position, height, etc, to be that secondary creator and assistance as a playmaker? No he is not. But who are we going to get in his place that is better, as good, or that we can afford. Hard to see a positive answer.


Completely agree.

I get and appreciate what Doug is pointing out about Nate at the MMLE actually costing 8-9 mil, and he's not actually worth that. But to some degree in that sense, Kirk is costing near 10 mil, and that just makes me want to cry.

We have the revenue to spend that lux tax. Even with Nate's signing, as long as we amnesty Booz, we are sure to be under the lux tax next season.

People are talking about how Bulls are the biggest challenge to the Heat if they hold the team together and add Derrick Rose. Losing Robinson is certainly not holding the team together, it is taking a huge step back and then adding Rose. With Robinson, Kirk, Gibson, Snell, and a vet min (and Teague), our bench can be strong and balanced and give other second units fits. Without Robinson, we have Kirk, Gibson, Snell, Teague, and a vet min or two (since no Robinson likely means we're just not using the MMLE) and that's a frightening second unit that I have no faith in scoring...so that means we're probably extending the minutes of both Butler and Deng to keep offense out there, another problem we all want to prevent.

I am still praying they make an offer to Nate similar to what Miami offered Allen...two year MMLE with player option on year two. That's a guaranteed 6.3 mil. Nate might have better contracts out there, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have anything more than two years at 3-4 mil a year. His height always scares GMs away; he can be a loose cannon with the ball so I think a GM would only take a flyer like that if they had a veteran coach; and last year he basically played as a starting PG for most the year, no team is signing him as a starter so they'll have to question if he can produce for them in a different role.

Does he deserve a better contract than the Bulls can offer, yes. Will he get, maybe not.

Aside from the Snell draft pick, this offseason is really going to disappoint me.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#206 » by RastaBull » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:44 pm

IF Nate isn't getting 4 million or more multi-year contract offers, I think he would be really wise to take a two year MMLE from the Bulls with a second year option.

He still has flaws in his game. Defensive liability and turns the ball over when given too much responsibility to create. With one more year with the Bulls he would have a chance to alter (at least a little) the perception of both. Another year under Thibs and he can improve his defensive technique and in the Bulls scheme he can at least look like he's improved his d. Also, with Rose he would have the chance to prove he can play off the ball next to a superstar, and with Rose and Kirk he likely wouldn't be forced into the sort of late-game decisions (and turnovers) that he struggled with last year. Furthermore, he's going to be a part of a quality team that can make a deep playoff run. He would have a chance to shine in the playoffs and if by chance the Bulls make it to the Finals it would certainly improve his stock. If he had a successful season and a deep playoff run I think he would have an even better chance at landing a better contract and he would have the option to opt out. At worst, he can opt in and still have 3.2 mil guaranteed for 2014
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#207 » by anrichardson » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:04 pm

Bulls Revenge wrote:
Chitownbulls wrote:If they strike out next summer, I don't know what to say

They have been talking about the future the last 15years....the future IS NOW


Amen Brother...Amen!


The future is now, so why are we going to mortgage the future now.

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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#208 » by BIGGIEsmalls 23 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:09 pm

Nate is using his social media accounts to rile you guys up & pressure the Bulls FO.

He, along with his agents, realize that it will be extremely difficult to secure him a multi-year deal somewhere else. Thus, he's trying to keep the door open in Chicago, if all else fails.

Nate is looking out for Nate right now.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#209 » by d boy gentleman » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:12 pm

Well, according the wiretap headline, the team is going to fill out the roster with minimum salary players which means that Nate is not coming back.. The 2014 plan appears to be real and it's the team's last and only chance to adding a star to Rose...
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#210 » by Chitownbulls » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:08 pm

dougthonus wrote:
RastaBull wrote:Gotcha...wow. I just looked at an explanation (knew it was 1:1 last year, didn't realize the more stringent policy kicked in this year): http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Wow, that would seem like a really extraordinary move by the CBA. Too bad it doesn't seem to be changing a whole lot, cause the ridiculously wealthy are just going deeper. Miami's gona be paying at least 2.50:1 and Brooklyn paying more than 3.25:1. Can't wait for both teams to be in the repeater tax in another year.


Agreed, the new tax scale is going to be an effective hard cap for most teams. You can see teams venturing into the 1.5:1 area, but the days of going well into the tax are likely over for everyone except possibly the Lakers or Knicks (who's revenues will make it possible). However, with the new revenue sharing plan, that may not work out so well for them either (though I don't think the exact details of how much the big market teams have to share has been released, it is supposed to be fairly significant).

Especially when you get to repeater tax. I don't think even the Lakers will sit in around 20 million over the tax regularly anymore. The amount they pay becomes obscene pretty fast, especially if repeater tax kicks in.


Honest question here, but why wouldn't the Bulls be with those two huge market teams? Lakers an Knicks? We have been selling out this stadium for the last 25 years or so. HUGE market team, giant stadium, playoff runs, owner owns 2 Professional Sports teams...I just don't get it. Jerry is balling but imo he doesn't want to dish out the dough to the Bulls. He has made it clear the White Sox are his #1.


White Sox Are the 8th Highest Payroll in the MLB

$119,573,277 FOR A TEAM THAT DOESNT BRING IN THE TYPE OF FANS THE BULLS DO


Chicago Bulls are the 5th Highest Payroll in the NBA

$74,245,846.....GIVE ME A OWNER THAT FOCUSES ON 1 TEAM and not the (more times than not) Struggling White Sox


THAT IS GARBAGE RIGHT THERE IMO....Bulls are making the money an the White Sox are seeing most of it.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#211 » by Mr Funk » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:21 pm

RastaBull wrote:What irks me is that we aren't going to spend the MMLE on Nate Rob not because we want to spend it on someone else, but because we probably won't use it at all. (Sorry, by "we" I mean GarPax). I've never been a FO basher, and I like Snell pick, but this is going to really frustrate me.


Gar-Pax don't own the Bulls. Direct your frustration towards Jerry's wallet.

dougthonus wrote:I think it comes down to a couple things, the first is the MMLE puts 3 million on your books next year which they probably don't want, and secondly it costs them 8-9 million dollars in real payouts, and they probably figure no guy taken is worth near nine million on the court. It's kind of hard to argue with that.


Not really when you're going deeper into the playoffs to the Finals and accumulating more revenue.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#212 » by DelonteLuvYoMom » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:39 pm

Chitownbulls wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
RastaBull wrote:Gotcha...wow. I just looked at an explanation (knew it was 1:1 last year, didn't realize the more stringent policy kicked in this year): http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Wow, that would seem like a really extraordinary move by the CBA. Too bad it doesn't seem to be changing a whole lot, cause the ridiculously wealthy are just going deeper. Miami's gona be paying at least 2.50:1 and Brooklyn paying more than 3.25:1. Can't wait for both teams to be in the repeater tax in another year.


Agreed, the new tax scale is going to be an effective hard cap for most teams. You can see teams venturing into the 1.5:1 area, but the days of going well into the tax are likely over for everyone except possibly the Lakers or Knicks (who's revenues will make it possible). However, with the new revenue sharing plan, that may not work out so well for them either (though I don't think the exact details of how much the big market teams have to share has been released, it is supposed to be fairly significant).

Especially when you get to repeater tax. I don't think even the Lakers will sit in around 20 million over the tax regularly anymore. The amount they pay becomes obscene pretty fast, especially if repeater tax kicks in.


Honest question here, but why wouldn't the Bulls be with those two huge market teams? Lakers an Knicks? We have been selling out this stadium for the last 25 years or so. HUGE market team, giant stadium, playoff runs, owner owns 2 Professional Sports teams...I just don't get it. Jerry is balling but imo he doesn't want to dish out the dough to the Bulls. He has made it clear the White Sox are his #1.


White Sox Are the 8th Highest Payroll in the MLB

$119,573,277 FOR A TEAM THAT DOESNT BRING IN THE TYPE OF FANS THE BULLS DO


Chicago Bulls are the 5th Highest Payroll in the NBA

$74,245,846.....GIVE ME A OWNER THAT FOCUSES ON 1 TEAM and not the (more times than not) Struggling White Sox


THAT IS GARBAGE RIGHT THERE IMO....Bulls are making the money an the White Sox are seeing most of it.


The Bulls and Sox are separate business entities with different share holders. You think those other share holders will be happy when the two franchises switch money? It sure as hell doesn't happen.

Besides, there is a vast difference between how MLB and the NBA works. In baseball, you have revenue sharing no matter what and the luxury tax threshold is usually very high ($170 million). To give you an idea of how high that is, only 1-2 teams in baseball pay the luxury tax every year at maximum. Don't act like Reinsdorf favors one team over another and pours most of his money into one. It's not like he is the only one who is managing the money or has invested in both franchises.

The difference in salary is purely based on the differences in financial infrastructure of the two leagues. If the Bulls could spend $120 million and not go into the luxury tax, they probably would have done it already.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#213 » by Trm3 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:01 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Trm3 wrote:Yeah, like 1.5 Mil for 2 years and 3 million under the table..we can do that right? :P

That's how I got paid from my courier job I had..wasn't on the payroll, got paid under the table ;)


Worked out well for the Timberwolves and Joe Smith. Why would we want to have a draft pick again in the next decade anyway!

I was actually joking but that has actually happened before?
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#214 » by bullsnewdynasty » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:34 pm

BIGGIEsmalls 23 wrote:If Kyle Korver and others would have made the wide open shots that Rose set them up for during the "Lebron defense", we wouldn't even be discussing this. Hell, we may have advanced to the Finals to face Dallas that season.


When LeBron guarded Rose in 2011, he was 1-15 shooting with 3 turnovers. You can't put that all on other players.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#215 » by BIGGIEsmalls 23 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:38 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
BIGGIEsmalls 23 wrote:If Kyle Korver and others would have made the wide open shots that Rose set them up for during the "Lebron defense", we wouldn't even be discussing this. Hell, we may have advanced to the Finals to face Dallas that season.


When LeBron guarded Rose in 2011, he was 1-15 shooting with 3 turnovers. You can't put that all on other players.

You're right. I can't.

But, I can say that Rose lost confidence in those other players because they kept missing wide open shots that he set up, which led him to (again) put the entire team on his back offensively.

BTW, that was Lebron with the help of his teammates behind him every time Rose drove past him.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#216 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:17 pm

Chitownbulls wrote:Honest question here, but why wouldn't the Bulls be with those two huge market teams? Lakers an Knicks? We have been selling out this stadium for the last 25 years or so. HUGE market team, giant stadium, playoff runs, owner owns 2 Professional Sports teams...I just don't get it. Jerry is balling but imo he doesn't want to dish out the dough to the Bulls. He has made it clear the White Sox are his #1.


The Bulls simply won't give up that much profit.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#217 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:19 pm

Trm3 wrote:I was actually joking but that has actually happened before?


From wikipedia:

Following the 1999–2000 season, it was discovered that Smith was involved in a salary cap–tampering scandal involving Timberwolves executive Kevin McHale. Smith was allegedly promised a future multi-million dollar deal if he signed with the team for below market value, allowing the team to make some additional player moves in the short term. The league later found out about this violation and voided the last year of the contract, also severely punishing the Timberwolves by taking away five first-round draft picks (though two of the picks were ultimately returned) and fining the team $3.5 million.[3] The move hurt the Timberwolves in the long run, as while the team still found success, the lack of draft picks set the team up for their eventual failure in the mid-2000s.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#218 » by Mr Funk » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:24 pm

Chicago Bulls Rumors

Free Agency: Chicago Bulls about to possibly offer Nate Robinson the MMLE and Marco Belinelli a 20% Raise or the MMLE? (Read More)

Via Sam Smith
Chicago Bulls willing to pay more luxury tax to re-sign Marco Belinelli. Problem is they'll only offer a 1 year deal. Chicago Bulls could offer Marco Belinelli a 1 year, $2.35m (Raise) or $3.18m (MMLE) in free agency assuming Sam Smith comments are valid.

Via Mike McGraw
He believes they could re-sign Nate Robinson but no room will be available for Belinelli who'll be let go. Believes they'll play a bench backcourt of Robinson, Hinrich, and a Shooter.

Via K.C. Johnson
Now believes the Bulls could use "some" of the MMLE.

Our predictions are this. We think the Bulls offer Nate Robinson a 1 year/$3.18m deal and Marco Belinelli a 20% raise so he'd earn 1yr/$2.35m. If Nate Robinson doesn't accept the deal, they could bump up the price and offer Belinelli a 1 year/$3.18m. One of them is likely to take the better deal possibly both. This is what we expect to happen.

Now the understanding here is Bulls Beatwriters believe a team will offer them a 3 or 4 year deal and they'll take the long term guarantee rather than a short term deal by the Bulls.



I bet Nate comes back but we lose Pasta.
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#219 » by Chitownbulls » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:28 pm

Great post an thanks for the info!

BRING NATE ROB BACK PLEASE!!!! he could stay on this team for the next 3-4 years...I think Hinrich is a goner after next year. With Nate...I think we have a shot!!!
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Re: WT- Nate unlikely to be back 

Post#220 » by kuly1990 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:35 pm

Mr Funk wrote:Chicago Bulls Rumors

Free Agency: Chicago Bulls about to possibly offer Nate Robinson the MMLE and Marco Belinelli a 20% Raise or the MMLE? (Read More)

Via Sam Smith
Chicago Bulls willing to pay more luxury tax to re-sign Marco Belinelli. Problem is they'll only offer a 1 year deal. Chicago Bulls could offer Marco Belinelli a 1 year, $2.35m (Raise) or $3.18m (MMLE) in free agency assuming Sam Smith comments are valid.

Via Mike McGraw
He believes they could re-sign Nate Robinson but no room will be available for Belinelli who'll be let go. Believes they'll play a bench backcourt of Robinson, Hinrich, and a Shooter.

Via K.C. Johnson
Now believes the Bulls could use "some" of the MMLE.

Our predictions are this. We think the Bulls offer Nate Robinson a 1 year/$3.18m deal and Marco Belinelli a 20% raise so he'd earn 1yr/$2.35m. If Nate Robinson doesn't accept the deal, they could bump up the price and offer Belinelli a 1 year/$3.18m. One of them is likely to take the better deal possibly both. This is what we expect to happen.

Now the understanding here is Bulls Beatwriters believe a team will offer them a 3 or 4 year deal and they'll take the long term guarantee rather than a short term deal by the Bulls.



I bet Nate comes back but we lose Pasta.

i would be ok with singing one of them, i was for Marco more through whole year, but i want maybe Nate more now, with Kirk here he can be our SG on offense, and Kirk our Sg on defense, this looked pretty good
in some games, Marco could be ok, but Nate is much more dynamic scorer, could create off the dribble better!
Rose/Nate/Teague
Jimmy/Kirk
Deng/Snell/?
BOoz/Taj/Murphy or Malcolm
Noah/?/Nazr
man i like Snell pick, but i would like if we acuired one more pick to get Dieng! Not sure who to sign in FA for backup big?
Maybe Thibs wants to give more minutes to Taj at center next year,? then why didnt he gave him those minutes this year?

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